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Let me start by saying I understand authors putting their works up for sale on Kindle or Amazon or whereever. Everybody is hurting after the Covid pandemic. It's unfortunate that I just don't have the dosh to buy online due to my ongoing medical bills. I'm trying not to leave my relatives holding the bag with an estate in the red. I figure it's the least I can do.
I see story chapters posted here marked teasers for their complete works for sale online. While it's frustrating I skip them knowing I'll never be able to buy them outright. It's especially annoying as some of them are very good authors and I'd love to read new work by them. But I get it, money is tight and you gotta make a buck whereever you can.
But what really pisses me off is a new story by one of several authors that runs for multiple chapters, getting me really involved in the plot and the characters, only to have the author suddenly pop up and announce the rest of the story will only be available online by requiring the reader to purchase the story. No prior warning, just an unexpected slap in the face.
To me that is a dishonest move by the author, bordering on a bait & switch scam. The author has deliberately mislead/lied to the reader. Think what you want to about this trick, That's the way I feel. I'm not going to try and defend my belief, I refuse to get into an online war with people here on BC. Nor will I respond to PMs on the subject. I'm having my say and that's the end of it for me.
What I am doing is deleting any comments I've made on the story and unvoting any kudos I may have left. I feel I have been deceived and the author/story does not deserve any feedback from me. Am I being overly sensitive? Maybe, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Karen J.
Comments
re: Am I being overly sensitive?
No you aren't but that is just my opinion.
It would be nice if those stories (I have no idea which ones they are) were marked right at the front that this was going to be the case.
With a few writers, we know that they post here and then on Amazon. I accept that and it is their right but they don't exactly hide it.
You could make your unhappiness known in the comments section and then block the author. That way you would not be tempted by any of their work in the future.
On a personal note. I write for fun and the intellectual (sic) exercise and while it would be nice to earn a few pennies I am not going to pay Baldy Bezos Inc 70% of any earnings (before tax) so the likelihood of that happening is about as rare as hens teeth.Samantha
Clearly
You don’t know how Kindle works, far from your pricing scenario I actually get 70% and don’t pay US taxes on the earnings either - but there again, I’m not daft enough to hand over all my rights either which includes being able to post on sites like BC hence I don’t have to remove everything free to publish.
Just to say, I don’t earn a fortune from the book sales, barely enough to get by (but too much to get any govt handouts). I would be better off stacking shelves but I prefer to, for now at least, keep my stress levels down!
I do agree with the op, I make it policy that I don’t post anything here as a story before it is published which means when I do start posting it here you will get the whole thing for free.
Maybe there should be a separate category for teasers and leave the main steam of stories for just free works?
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Ok
But as I try not to have any dealings with Amazon, for me, it is irrelevant.
The same goes for Google who keep trying to scrape my blog despite my 'robots.txt' telling them to 'F' off. That also applies to a Nokia company who refused to stop so I just blocked all of AWS (they were running on an EC-2 instance). I've given up being the nice guy when it comes to repelling boarders to my blog. I'll block whole /16 subnets if needed.
Samantha
I published a few stories on Kindle
I, like you decided I didn't like the cut that Amazon got and that they demanded the stories not be published anywhere else essentially taking over the copyright. The only time I've ever willingly given up my copyright was for the first two stories I ever publish and they (Reluctant Press) gave me $200 up front for each of them.
I now publish with Smashwords/Direct2Digital . I retain copyright, I can leave my stories up here or publish them elsewhere and they distribute the stories to about 20 epub retailers world wide. You earn 60% of list price from major ebook retailers and up to 80% list at the Smashwords Store. I still don't take home a lot, but with total of about 15 stories (including the other genre I write in) I get enough in a month for a double chocolate mocha from my local barista.
HugsPatricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.Semper in femineo gerunt
In defence of Amazon (honest authors)
I didn’t realise that posting a partial story and then charging for the rest of it was even permitted here. It’s banned on Fictionmania and all such ‘stories’ are removed. I’d add that in my opinion it’s an incredibly gauche practice.
All things considered, even with Bezos’ vanity-project pseudo space programme and so on, I think Amazon is a good thing for writers. I’d encourage anybody with a finished manuscript to give it a go. I get 70% royalties from Amazon in return for giving them exclusivity at launch – and while it’s true that I’d probably make much more money flipping burgers than writing, it’s not work I’d enjoy. Book sales and Kindle page views give me a regular “other income” that I can spend on silly, sometimes unnecessary stuff every month without feeling guilty about my dependents. It also had the advantage that it stops some scammer from copying the text of my stories from a free site and claiming to be the author... which is happening a lot now, as I think we all know.
Also, back in the late 1960s, people were regularly sending $2.95 or more to mail-order from a small range of short, badly mimeographed and very formulaic stories. Allowing for inflation, such a story would be about $37 today, so it astonishes me to think that you can obtain something almost instantaneously from Amazon, for the same price.
Or ignore Amazon and read free stuff, of course. I write free stories, too!
Best wishes,
Bryony
Sugar and Spiiice – TG Fiction by Bryony Marsh
The online version
The modern Online version of that will cost you $10 for a DRM PDF file. (Reluctant Press)
HugsPatricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.Semper in femineo gerunt
Shameless plug
I think I've read Bryony's book Egyptology three or four times since I discovered it a year ago. It's become one of my comfort stories for when I'm in the mood to reread my most treasured books. I strongly recommend that other people take a look at it.
https://www.amazon.com/Egyptology-Bryony-Marsh-ebook/dp/B099...
I Concur
First-class story,
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Another Thought
I do not know which author you are referring to, so I am merely thinking outside the box.
Have you contacted the author, they may have had a legitimate reason to move their story and it was not their intent to "bait and switch". If you were a regular who encouraged them in their writing process and it was your kudos and comments that kept them pursuing their passion for the story, they may even be able, willing, or desirous to email you the portion of the story that they had to place up on Kindle as a thank you for your encouragement.
I guess my first instinct would be to reach out to the author before I delete comments and kudos, which I did not know I could do, still a little technologically challenged. I know that there are several snippets telling us that the tale has been posted to Kindle here, but it is my understanding that several who do this make certain the proceeds come back to this site for the operating expenses. Again, not knowing the author, and knowing everyone is unique, I do not know the reason, just my suggestion as a first step.
Melissa
The problem is...
The problem is not posting stories to Amazon or any other paid site after they're completed, which is not unusual here, but, rather, not finishing the story here and requiring readers to go to a pay site (e.g. Amazon) to read the remainder of the story, without prior warning.
Some authors
have offered their completed episodic work with the caveat that it would be removed for publication elsewhere after a brief period of time. That seems like a reasonable approach.
Love, Andrea Lena
Way back when...
Reasonable enough, though a hard-up reader who is in any way tech-savvy would probably already know about the Wayback Machine . Authors deserve money for a good story, but giving something away for free and then asking people to pay for it might be seen as a flawed business model.
Bx
Sugar and Spiiice – TG Fiction by Bryony Marsh
I'll agree that I consider
I'll agree that I consider those kinds of authors bait and switch as well. It's very different from the people that say 'If you don't want to wait, you can get the whole story on X site' (Bookapy, Amazon, Smashwords, Patreon). The story will eventually come out.
Even the ones that have 'extra content' that's only available on the for pay sites are acceptable, as _a_ complete story is posted up on the free (that is, advertising) site.
Mind you, I think a lot of the online authors are extremely greedy. When I buy a $8 paperback, I have a physical copy of the book that can't suddenly be remotely removed from me, and the author didn't see more than $1 from that copy. I've seen a number of authors who think that getting less than $6 in their hands per copy is reprehensible. The greed is with _everyone_. Publisher, Author, and Consumer - and in a lot of cases, it seems like the consumer is the only one that doesn't see a lot of benefit from electronic publishing. The publisher gets more per copy by not paying for printing and distribution costs, the author gets a higher percentage per copy - but the prices for the consumer rarely drop.
Yes, I know there are a lot of people that will put their books up for 1-2 dollars. I've bought a number of those. I'm talking about the ones that put them up for $5-10. I've even seen $20 or more in a couple of cases. I suspect that's like the $100,000.00 glass of lemonade.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
There's more to what books cost than that.
Even for a self-published author there are often extra costs involved in getting their book published.
For example, if I do a book cover and it costs 150 USD for them to buy the rights to use. Do they pay an editor? Someone to format the book for release digitally? All of these add up to up-front costs to release the book.
My books I've released, between Amazon and Smashwords, have netted me maybe 150 USD over the last decade. Luckily for me, I've employed none of the above in any of them... but then again, that quite possibly contributes to why they've sold so little, and that's at 1.50-2.50/copy.
Services like Doppler have all of these costs, plus advertising to contend with for every release.
Self-publishing or small publishers seem like they'd be raking in money... but how quickly that 4-5 dollars a book turns into a profit margin of pennies, if they break even, is kind of atrocious.
On Karen's problems...
If people weren't allowed to post stories unless the story was complete -- for whatever reason -- we'd see a whole helluva lot less content on the site in general. A lot of the best writers here post piecemeal as they write, and some of the most enjoyable stories either end prematurely or never end at all.
A story potentially being incomplete -- again, for whatever reason -- is unfortunately a part of the risk of participating in the community of a site like this. Authors have their own reasons for writing, just like readers have their own reasons for reading. Those reasons aren't always going to align... which is why readers have to figure out where and what risks they're willing to take in consuming content.
Melanie E.
I think Karen's referring to
I think Karen's referring to those who post a partial copy of the story, and then say "If you want the rest of the story, here's the link". Not those who say "If you want to read ahead rather than wait, or even the entire book, it's available on my Patreon".
There's an author on FM named SexyTimes. They posted _one_ story in 2014. It's actually only half a story (or a bit less). That same author, under a different name, posts on Literotica, and has their own web site (I'm not going to post it here) where they do captioned pictures - and constantly push their "books" (very short stories). Thing is, _none_ of the stories posted on the 'free' sites are complete. They all dead-end, yet are available "completed" through their Smashwords author page. I'm baffled that they haven't been banned from the various sites because of the constant 'post half a new story', and never completing anything - unless you buy it from them.
(yes, I was bored, and with my reading speed, I can go through a LOT of sites very quickly to research/trace authors and stories. )
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I'm not saying I think it's a good idea, but neither is it....
worth getting angry about, especially not to the point of posting a vitriol filled blog about it.
You ever catch a show called Reading Rainbow back in the 80s/90s? The entire premise of it was "give kids a teaser for a book, then tell them if they wanna know more they gotta buy it."
An incomplete story is an incomplete story regardless of the reasons it's incomplete, but incomplete stories are allowed -- and encouraged -- because the point of the site is sharing and engagement. At least if it's because the author would like to make something for their effort, you know that if you really like the story you've got the option to pick it up eventually. And if you're not enjoying it enough to want to do so (whether you're able or not,) then the story probably wasn't worth the time you would have spent reading it anyway.
I've got... a lot more to say on this, but it's gotta wait, because I'm running it past someone else to make sure it doesn't violate TOS of the site before I post it. Suffice to say, this blog has caused a lot of damage I don't think Karen or anyone else who's responded realizes, so folks might wanna re-read the site's rules and statements of intent.
Melanie E.
Yes, I watched Reading
Yes, I watched Reading Rainbow in the early 80's.... aaand the books were available at most libraries.
Damage? I don't see how the original post could cause damage. I read it as being about people that (like the person I mentioned) deliberately half post stories as a teaser to try to drum up sales. Not people that have completed posted stories, left them a bit, then have them unpublished from here other than the summary, so they can attempt to sell them through another site. I've only seen one story that I think was removed too fast after completion, and I wasn't upset with the author for doing so (just mildly peeved) - they were up front about it, and they DID finish the story on the site. (and have contributed lots of others)
As an aside, as I recall the Amazon requirements, it's that it can't be freely available. That means that the original story could be moved, for example, into the Hatbox. That's unreachable unless you've paid the site for access, and thus won't violate Amazon's TOS.
For me, the only real peeve _here_ I have with Kindle is the continuous litany of 'on kindle' posts that are often not clearly marked as such. (I think they should be 'coded' KDL or similar in the Quick Cuts, instead of the day of the week) I've been suckered thinking that there was a new post, only to just find a link. I don't tend to hit the 'Teaser' section as often. I made the suggestion, I know it was read, and that's the end of it. I give money off and on to help support the site, but I certainly don't pay enough to insist on changes. That's why it's a peeve, and nothing really major.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I have about 40,000 dead tree format books in my house
I stopped buying books. Then e-books became popular. I much prefer e-books to paper books.
Not to mention that carrying one or two books around everywhere to catch an extra minute here or there was annoying. It's much easier to just read stuff on my cell phone.
It's All About the Intent
To actually be a bait and switch there must be an intent to defraud.
If the author knowingly wasted your time and, even worse, dragged you emotionally into a story. . .in order to entice you to buy a book, they should be banned from the site.
Offering a free sample is much different, but it must be clearly labeled as such.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Not Important
Between the stories of so many excellent authors who post their stories here on BCTS, writing stories myself, and real life demands on my time. Caring who does or doesn't post and pull stories on BCTS is not one of my interests. What I'm interested in are the unbelievable talent of the writers on BCTS and the personal flavor each one adds to "their story". They don't need to add a name as the author of their story is as easily identifiable as a photograph. I wish they were being rewarded financially for their exceptional talent. If anyone followed the literary works of published authors they would understand it's more politics than talent who is or isn't going to be a Best Seller. Excellent examples abound such as Hillary Clinton's book which went straight from publisher to remainders. She was paid millions for political reasons. There are hundreds of others.
Great writers are like great painters as it's a gift. Everyone can write, not everyone is a writer. Writing is taught, writers are born.
Hugs Ms. Taylor
Barb
Life is meant to be lived, not worn until it's worn out.
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Seen that many many times
Here on bc. Author finishes a story and then A day or three later it is gone before you had chance to read it.
What is much worse is the authors that rush to post their unfinished stories as finished. And guess what they are still unfinished on Amazon.
I don't have anyone on my block list
However there is one author that when I see that they post, I simply skip. They had a long story I was following and were posting regular weekly chapters. The week the last chapter was posted I was on vacation with no internet capability. In that week, the work went to Kindle and was removed from the site.I have no idea how the story ended.
I contacted the author and they were indifferent and not willing to do anything. So, I just don't read anything they write.
HugsPatricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.Semper in femineo gerunt
I don’t like to feel manipulated either
I try to keep my thoughts to myself about the few who engage in it here. Gladly, here, most don’t. Thanks again to Erin for setting the right tone to follow.
Did the author mean to bait and switch?
Many authors will start writing a book, publishing it one chapter at a time on a site like this. They get feedback from users in the comments. Once the book is complete or close to complete they will re-edit the story and then publish it on Amazon Kindle.
Please not that if you publish a story on the Kindle book borrowing service then you have to do this for at least 3 months and you are not allowed to have electronic copies of story available anywhere else, barring a few sample chapters from the beginning. (I believe printed copies are OK.) For BigCloset TopShelf this means that they have to ask Erin to unpublish the remaining chapters so the story ends abruptly. So these stories end abruptly, with a message saying the rest is on Kindle. So the author is stuck with either having most or all of the chapters unpublished, with a notice that the story is available on Amazon, or of totally hiding that the story was ever published here.
I believe Maddy Bell said that the reason she publishes her stories on Amazon but not Amazon Kindle is so that she can also publish parts or all of the stories here at the same time.