And I am being nice.

The “beta” of these new cloud variables is worse than the alpha months ago! It hasn't fixed ANY of the problems I had. In fact, it creates more problems! It is SO bad! It's the worst change made to 2.0! I would rather use Insanity's cloud variables, even though they are harder to use and… ARRRGGHHHH!
But I digress.

Here is my original post on what cloud variables needed to improve.

Cloud variables are possibly the most revolutionary feature in Scratch 2.0. They have almost infinite possibilities. But it has several issues that I saw when I was an Alpha tester (back in the 2.0 alpha).

1. Security.
Cloud variables are not secure - at all. Sure, I can't hack into a chatroom and get someone banned, but I can get their password very easily by just “Seeing Inside.” There is no secure way to have accounts excluding User ID, but User ID has a lot of issues (I will get to that later). Even with User ID, I can still get account information from the account, which could contain nothing OR something that they don't want publicly accessible. So, why don't we use User ID?
User ID's first major problem is that you need to have a Scratch account. Without a Scratch account, your User ID is 0, which is virtually worthless since it is shared with every other guest that views that project. This means that, at least for now, you have to have a Scratch account to track data via Cloud stuff securely (if it was enabled right now).
The second problem is that the User ID is really not stable. You could have a User ID of 2 and it would be 14 later. This really screws up the concept, and really makes it worthless.
I propose a solution: a “secure” option. With this, if someone tries to “See Inside” it will not let them view the cloud lists and variables. If you remix it, it will delete all the data on these secure lists. This opens up a new world of possibilities that will make this amazing.

2. Not live.
I experienced this during the alpha, and it completely prevented me from making a chatroom (along with other things). It seems like it would only update when the green flag was clicked. I don't really know, so… take this with a grain of salt.

3. Not reliable.
Cloud variables only worked half the time IF we were lucky. This is pretty simple.

And my biggest worry…

Eliminating the chance for chatrooms.
When the May 2012 alpha happened, there was a sample project that was a chatroom. Since then, it seems like the Scratch Team's number one goal is to get rid of the chance to make chatrooms.
When the first change to cloud variables occurred, it was an 8-character limit before an ellipsis. In the post, Lightnin went on about how chatrooms were hard to moderate. I can understand where he was coming from. But it also still allowed for chatrooms to exist (he mentioned “creative solutions” and they could be done. Everyone pretty much figured it out.
But now it is completely off the grid. That is why it is my worry. With my main project that I have thought about for quite a long time being a chatroom, I want to either know if I can or cannot make it. But I'm not getting any answers! Nobody else is, either!
Everyone else is saying “Down with chatrooms!” I think not. Have we had a problem with chatrooms yet? No. Have we seen a LOT of bad Scratchers in, I don't know, FOREVER? No! If somebody is going to make a problem, we can build in banning. There hasn't been a problem. Shouldn't we field test it before we jump to conclusions?
My verdict on this entire situation is this: Let's try it out. Seriously. If there are problems we will know. But jumping to conclusions is not a good thing to do. Let's try it out, and see what happens.

These are my thoughts. I don't know if ANY of these will be considered, but I really hope so. Scratch Team, please take a look at this and give us some sort of update on what cloud variables will be like. Give us an update. Please.

So, I am going to address these things one by one.

1. Security.
Security was bad. Now, it is worse. All cloud data is in the “Cloud Data Log,” making it impossible to have any type of password. It was already possible to view it, now it's in a graphical form! They completely ruined it. It is horrific, making a chatroom my #1 project that I want to avoid. What is more dangerous then the chat being available to anyone, anywhere, easily.

2. Not live.
Very simply, we still have a one-second delay. Fail (ImagineIt pointed out that that could be rude to the Scratch Team, so I changed it and now it is struck through. Better?) . Better than before, though.

3. Not reliable.
I don't really know, but it seems to be more reliable then before. So, you got one thing right.

And, to really wreck my day…

4. Eliminating the chance for chatrooms.

Well, consider it done. Chat rooms are currently not allowed and it will be taken down, which is unbelievably stupid. Really? “Allow a field test.” Did you ignore me, or go right against me. Talksy, which I have developed the idea for over a year and a half, is being killed. Yup. They are killing it. So, thanks Scratch Team. This was my biggest worry, and you fulfilled it.

Along with other failures that make the alpha version better…

5. Cloud lists not here.
… WOW.

6. Cloud variables only accept numerical input, no strings.
… WOW, seriously?

7. 10 cloud variables per project, no more, not even a way to purchase more (allowing fundraising for the Scratch Team)
ARE YOU SERIOUS? REALLY? REALLY? WOW THIS IS STUPID!

Scratch Community, cloud variables are in such bad condition that you should avoid them like the plague - they aren't worth it when Insanity has better features. Sorry, but it is true. Enjoy!

I agree with some of what you said. Even though it does sound somewhat rude. I had no idea they are going to completly ban all chatrooms. WHY? We haven't even tested yet. Who said any scratchers were bad people? Scratch Team, we really should have chatrooms and cloud variables that allow words.

Some of the things you've said are really rude to the Scratch Team. You shouldn't call anybody a fail even if you don't like what they did. They are not ALLOWING chatrooms for a reason. Why are you so stuck on that?

ImagineIt wrote:

Some of the things you've said are really rude to the Scratch Team. You shouldn't call anybody a fail even if you don't like what they did. They are not ALLOWING chatrooms for a reason. Why are you so stuck on that?

My chatroom project, talksy, was an idea that I had for about 1 and a half years. Yeah. Scratch could make it happen, Scratch isn't.

That's why.

I respect their call to disallow chat for now but will not be happy if it is like this in the future

The only BIG problem i have is the lack of lists this is very frustrating as i can not create save files and other data that needs to be independant per user. Therefore making my plans for serenity temporaraly impossible

botcrusher wrote:

I respect their call to disallow chat for now but will not be happy if it is like this in the future

The only BIG problem i have is the lack of lists this is very frustrating as i can not create save files and other data that needs to be independant per user. Therefore making my plans for serenity temporaraly impossible

Fun fun fun! NOT.

And yes I am annoyed at chatrooms.

tlangster wrote:

I would rather use Insanity's cloud variables, even though they are harder to use and… ARRRGGHHHH!

Hey! Mine are actually fairly easy to use. The only downside is it takes about half a second to get the value in which you can't use the project and that there are no lists unless you formulate a workaround with the explode/split block.

Perhaps before anyone goes “picketing” we should hear what ST has to say, including when lists will come out

botcrusher wrote:

Perhaps before anyone goes picketing we should hear what ST has to say, including when lists will come out

Here is the best I can summarize what they have to say…
1. They got rid of user id in favor of username. You don't need to store passwords, because you can just tie data to the username. The “secure” option will also never be implemented because it would make it harder to see how data is structured and not make your code fully available.
2. It is just about live if you allow certain ports (I forget the numbers, they're in the FAQ, I think) through your firewall
3. Yeah, that's part of the reason they were down for a while.
4. There is too much potential for abuse with it.
(My opinion is that they should see how often they are abused and then decide if they have the mod resources to handle it from there.)
5. That's because the server can only store integers right now. It can't store arrays or anything yet. Be patient.
6. See #5
7. I think the limit is just until they can make sure everything works before putting a lot of stress on the server. It will probably be increased if not removed altogether later.
They will not charge for more because all features of Scratch will always be free (except for Scratch boards and stuff, but that's because you have to buy hardware).

(And yes, Insanity does have better features, because it was programmed by the most awesome programmer ever)

jvvg wrote:

(And yes, Insanity does have better features, because it was programmed by the most awesome programmer ever)

Lol

I agree completely. Sorry Scratch Team, but this is horrible.

Despite all this i am still grateful for the cv's

They're trying to implement it slowly . They'll get better later. If you don't like how they are right now, just wait . At least they're doing something. They could have just not released cloud variables at all.

kayybee wrote:

They're trying to implement it slowly . They'll get better later. If you don't like how they are right now, just wait . At least they're doing something. They could have just not released cloud variables at all.

Would have liked that better than this tantalizing version of it.

tlangster wrote:

kayybee wrote:

They're trying to implement it slowly . They'll get better later. If you don't like how they are right now, just wait . At least they're doing something. They could have just not released cloud variables at all.

Would have liked that better than this tantalizing version of it.

But this way they can test things to see how it works.

Just stop using the cloud variables and forget that they exist.

I'll comment on your page telling you about this cool new feature called “cloud variables” once they're fully developed.

kayybee wrote:

tlangster wrote:

kayybee wrote:

They're trying to implement it slowly . They'll get better later. If you don't like how they are right now, just wait . At least they're doing something. They could have just not released cloud variables at all.

Would have liked that better than this tantalizing version of it.

But this way they can test things to see how it works.

Just stop using the cloud variables and forget that they exist.

I'll comment on your page telling you about this cool new feature called “cloud variables” once they're fully developed.

What cloud variables xD.

But seriously.

Anyhow, I guess we just have to wait a while longer *sigh*

tlangster wrote:

What cloud variables xD.

Woah you're a time traveler!
Stop it.
At least while you're waiting go press the billion button. The link is in my sig.

I think you should test your programming skills and see how well and how creatively you can create a project with cloud variables under these constraints.

You know, they worked 2+ years on this, and 10% of the users gives negative views on 2.0. Remember this is the beta. Also, Cloud Data is not working cause ST is fixing bugs.

soniku3 wrote:

You know, they worked 2+ years on this, and 10% of the users gives negative views on 2.0. Remember this is the beta. Also, Cloud Data is not working cause ST is fixing bugs.

soniku3 wrote:

It's not as easy as you may think. I think even the best programmers on Scratch would need help

It worked better, though, in the earlier alpha.