Is France Team USA’s Biggest World Cup Threat?
French talent is making a major impact in the WNBA and now some of those same players could stand in Team USAs way at the FIBA World Cup. Sabreena and Annie are joined by Eden Laase to break down the growing pipeline of French players to the WNBA, whats made the league an increasingly attractive destination, and whether that experience could help France pull off a World Cup upset. Before Eden joins, Sabreena and Annie discuss the latest developments surrounding Kate Kovals departure from LSU following the programs recruitment of a Russian player, which left Koval without a new landing spot as the NCAA transfer window closed before she could make her move. They also break down the passport issue that has kept Li Yueru from playing for Team China, before turning to Satou Sabally being ruled out for the remainder of the season and what that could mean for her future and the New York Liberty. Finally, the trio look beyond Team USA and France to preview the rest of the FIBA World Cup field, highlighting the teams and players theyll be watching closely throughout the tournament. No Offseason is a part of The Athletic Podcast Network: Sign up for the No Offseason Newsletter: 00:00 Intro 01:38 What led to Kate Koval leaving LSU? 06:42 Li Yueru will miss the FIBA Womens Basketball World Cup 11:30 Satou Sabally officially out for the rest of the season 16:04 The inspiration behind Frances WNBA influx 17:54 How Marine Johanns navigated international challenges 24:32 France concerns with players choosing other leagues 28:38 WNBA expansion open doors for international talent 29:55 Inside Team Frances success 32:05 Understanding INSEP institute in France 33:40 Analyzing France's chances in the World Cup 39:09 Who can make things interesting for Team USA? 44:46 Teams to watch outside the favorites Related links and articles: Follow and listen to the audio podcast: Get in touch! Leave a comment wherever youre listening, or email us at NoOffseason@TheAthletic.com Show Links: -YouTube: @No-Offseason -Instagram: @tanooffseason [ -TikTok: @no_offseason [ Credits: -Zena on BlueSky: @zenakeita -Sabreena on BlueSky: @sabreenajm -Chantel on BlueSky: @chanteljennings -Layshia on IG: @layshiac -Annie on X: @anniecostabile -Produced by Taneka Burrell -Executive Produced by Andrea B. Scott Visit the Yahoo Women's Sports Hub: Full Episodes Playlist: Shorts Playlist: Thumbnail: Armand Lenoir / Contributor / FIBA via Getty Images
Video Transcript
When did this French pipeline start to wanna join the WNBA?
Yeah, I think there was a lot of things that kind of influenced it.
If you were gonna trace it back to, you know, a player, it would of course be Marine Johannes from- who's on the New York Liberty just because I think prior to her, it wasn't necessarily a thing that French players did, right?
If you were a really good player, they tended to-- The Federation tended to kinda push you into long-term contracts w- starting when you were like 16 in France so they could keep an eye on you, and then you're making money, and when the WNBA wasn't really a lucrative place, there was no reason for players to go over there unless you were someone like Marine Johannes, who didn't grow up, like, as one of the top players in France.
Hello everyone, and welcome to No Off Season.
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
And I'm Annie Costabile.
And today on the show, the WNBA is experiencing a French takeover.
More and more French players are making their way into the league and making a real impact.
Our freelance writer Eden Lassie joins us to break down how it all started and what's fueling this new wave of French talent in the WNBA.
But first, an interesting story at the college level.
Ukrainian center Kate Koval, who just finished her first season at LSU, is speaking publicly for the first time about why she left LSU, and she says the program's decision to recruit a Russian player ultimately played a major role in her decision.
Annie, you have been all over this.
Can you walk us through what happened with Kate, with her teammates, and why she ultimately decided to leave LSU at this very strange time in the college basketball calendar?
Yeah, so this is a very layered story, and it goes back further even beyond what we learned last week from head coach Kim Mulkey, was that Kate was leaving due to personal reasons.
But this announcement came just nine days after the program signed Russian Center Anna Maneva.
And obviously, what we know just in the global landscape is that Russia invaded Ukraine in February of 2022, and there is a lot, obviously, at play there.
And so in an interview with the New Orleans Advocate, Mulkey described a conversation that she had with Kate notifying her that the team, the program, was recruiting Maneva.
But she told the outlet she couldn't remember exactly when that conversation had happened, and so there was questions about the timeline.
Was Kate notified before the portal closed?
Did she have time to make a decision if she would like to leave, et cetera?
So fast-forward to yesterday, Kate released her own statement, and you can read the full statement on Kate's Instagram or head over to The Athletic.
We have a full story on, on the circumstances up, including Kate's statement.
But in her statement, she clarified from her perspective was that this conversation happened after the portal closed, and so her decision to leave was directly tied to the program's intentions to sign, quote, "a Russian player."
She didn't use Anna's name in her statement.
And then she went on to detail the bearing that the war has had on her family.
Her dad serves in the Ukrainian military.
She's had people close to her who've been killed in the war.
So, so this is definitely, you know, a, a, a weighty situation and, and not one that Kate by any means has made lightly.
Like, this is not some rash decision that, that's been made here.
Yeah, I mean, we, we actually had a, a conversation with Kate that Chantel did, I think last year on the podcast just detailing all that it took for her to come over here and her time in high school and how she ended up at Notre Dame, ultimately transferring to LSU.
But as you said, Annie, there's just, there's a lot going on here and, to have to make this decision again after the portal has closed when it's unclear, like, what sort of recourse Kate has to continue playing college basketball this year, and what she can do now that she has left LSU, like, it, it must have weighed on her heavily to have to be in this situation where, again, all of the political ramifications of Ukraine and Russia and we don't really know the full extent of what her conversations were with Kim Mulkey before this, you know, player was added to the LC roster.
So lot going on.
Just wish Kate Koval all the best in terms of whatever is next for her and that, her options have not been closed off because it's like, again, a really weird timing with colleges have already started academic sessions, right?
But yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's important to note here too, and again, if you haven't already, you could read the full context of the situation at The Athletic, but mid-year transfers are not eligible to compete immediately at another school after they've already been enrolled in an NCAA school during the first academic term.
So for Kate, LSU's academic year started on August 24th.
So in order for her to become immediately eligible elsewhere, she needs the NCAA's approval.
And again, in her statement, she, you know, implored the NCAA to help her in, in these efforts to gain approval to play elsewhere.
So I think at this point, it- it's- it's something that once again is in the NCAA's hands, and, time will tell in terms of what their ultimate decision is.
They-- Kate has at least two years of eligibility remaining, so that's something to consider as well, and then she'd be eligible for the 2028, WNBA draft.
So just a really unfortunate situation, and I definitely implore everyone to, to read Kate's full statement because i- it's an emotional one.
Yeah, absolutely.
Just a lot for anybody of any age to have to go through, especially somebody who's only like 20 years old, so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All the best to her.
Um- Mm-hmm moving on from that, not super elegantly into another weird international situation .
Yeah.
We got news earlier this week that Li Yuru, center for the Dallas Wings- a beloved fan of roller coasters in the Dallas Metro area, uh- will not be able to participate in the FIBA World Cup because she had a passport issue.
Her passport got lost in the mail, and they were unable to recover it, so she can't travel internationally to go to Germany to participate with Team China in the World Cup, which is just about the strangest situation I can remember hearing, you know, with regards to traveling and getting people eligible.
You know, I spoke with, one of Li's agents and she said that even if they had tried to order a new passport, then you have to get a new visa attached to that passport, and so that would require another hurdle to have to overcome again to get to Germany.
And the Chinese team has decided that they are just gonna move on without her, add another player, and not take the risk of like waiting for her and then, you know, three group games have gone and Li still isn't available to play.
So yeah, just like a super, super weird thing, and Li had great perspective about it when she posted about it on Instagram.
I mean, I don't wanna make light of the situation, but this is giving like, you know, early 20s, you went out the night before work- and then you, your alarm doesn't go off and you like are late to work, you know?
Yeah.
This is giving like major F up, okay?
I'm trying not to swear here, but if we were in real life I would be s- cursing.
I think, you know, losing your passport can happen, but before the World Cup, oh my gosh, I would have that baby vaulted, you know?
So I, I definitely fee- feel for Li because this clearly is not something that anyone would intentionally, want to happen or- or have happen, but it's a major, major SNAFU for her.
Mm-hmm.
And now the national team is tasked with replacing one of its top performers.
I mean - Absolutely she was the team's leading scorer averaging 17, or just over 17 points per game, almost 18 points per game actually.
Was sixth overall at the Paris Olympics.
Like, this is, this is a considerable absence that, that they're gonna feel during the World cup.
Yeah.
At times like these I always wonder like what power the federations have, you know, with regards to these international situations because, you know, I saw somebody mention this, like online that let's say Leo Messi lost his passport before the World Cup and like couldn't travel to the United States.
You can bet everything that I have that Argentina- .
Would make it happen that Leo is able to come, you know, into the United States to perform in this tournament.
Like there's no way that they'd just be like,- Yeah ..."Oh sorry, we can't play with Messi because he just can't make it into the country."
Like there's zero chance they would allow that to happen.
And I realize- Yeah this is not the Soccer World Cup, Basketball World Cup doesn't have the same status.
Like China's not necessarily a basketball powerhouse, but again, she's like their best player.
Yeah, they have Han Xu, yeah they have another young center, but like Li was the one who was leading them at the Olympics as you just mentioned.
So I, I am curious like that they're just letting this go, you know?
They're like, " Oh, whoops," you know, "we can't get Li Yuru into Germany."
It's, it's a little weird to me that there's no extra effort on her behalf, you know, to get through some loopholes at the very least.
That's what I'm saying.
Like- Like - The, I, I lost my passport.
What do you mean?
How did you not know exactly where your password was months ago?
And keep too- It seemed like it was a renewal situation and it didn't like get to her in the mail, you know?
But yeah it's- I mean- It's very weird.
Again, to your point I think it's interesting that more buttons couldn't have been pushed.
Yeah.
But here we are.
She seems, totally at peace with the decision.
China is in a group- Yeah with the USA, Czechia, and Italy.
So you know they could have finished like second or third in that group, gotten to the playing round of the World Cup.
I don't think it's very likely now, now that they don't have Li.
But u- yeah it's just so strange, so weird.
Uh- So strange and I guess she gets these 17 days now to stay in Dallas and prepare for the playoffs because the Wings have already qualified for the WB playoffs, but yeah.
Super, super weird.
Just passport issues.
Who, who knew that this was a thing that's still happening- Extremely bizarre in 2026.
Yeah.
Extremely bizarre.
All right.
One more thing before we get onto our next topic.
We learned officially on Thursday although this has been suspected for sometime that Satou Sabally will miss the remainder of the WNBA season with her head injury.
She'd already stepped away from the team and announced that she wasn't going to compete in the World Cup.
So the writing was sort of on the wall that this was gonna happen.
By officially announcing that she's out for the season, New York Liberty are able to get an exemption to sign AnnaLi Mayle with that roster spot just anything that you had to add about what Satou's going through or like what the Liberty can expect from Maely in her absence.
Yeah, I think it's a really unfortunate situation.
I mean, this was Satou's second concussion in just more than eight months, which is having, you know, a, a lingering effect on her.
She was cleared by the WNBA's concussion protocol standards, but she's still struggling, like I said, with those lingering symptoms.
And I think, it's, it's just really unfortunate to see a player like any player, any, any person going through, you know, a head injury.
That is just, yeah, hits home for me and I think it's, it's really heartbreaking.
So she's obviously signed to a two-year deal with the Liberty.
The second year of her contract is, is worth just over $850,000.
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, she is expected to be back with the Liberty next season, but at this point, I think Anali knows this team.
She's been with the Liberty pretty much all season outside of a stint that she did on a developmental contract with the Mercury early in the season.
She left and then came back to the Liberty.
And so I think having a player, just an extra body who, who knows the system is gonna be valuable, but obviously Anali isn't Satou, so there really is no like replacing Satou player for player with, with Anali.
It's, it's more so I think just a value to have a player who again has been with this, this group all year long.
And when the Liberty come back, I mean they've clinched their spot in the playoffs, but at this point everybody's vying for seeding and they're tied right now with the Wings and the Mystics for sixth in league standings.
Mm-hmm.
But, you know, the Wings own- They have some tough games coming up.
Yeah, they have tough games left and then you also have to start to think about who has the, um,- Tiebreakers, yeah tiebreaker.
So, you know, in this situation, the Wings have the tiebreaker over, over the Liberty and, and those top seeds are not easy for, for anybody, but the Liberty have not done a great job against the Valkyries who are second in league standings right now.
So-- Right do they wanna see them in, in the first round?
You know what I mean?
No, they do not .
Right.
Right.
So then that's whole separate conversation, but that- Yeah is where we are at.
Right.
So yeah, New York Liberty, we knew that they were probably gonna be without Satou, but that just makes it official.
Uh- Mm-hmm that means of course that Satou cannot return even for the playoffs.
It's not just a regular season thing, it's for the entire postseason.
So again, we wish her all the best dealing with just what seems really traumatic and, just a, a bummer of a timeline too to have to miss her home World Cup, but- Yeah hopefully this gives her the time to recover and recoup and, you know, just best wishes as always to anybody recovering from an injury like this.
All right.
Coming up, we're sticking with the World cup theme.
Eden Lassie joins us to talk about the wave of French players who are making their mark in the WNBA and at the international level.
So stick around.
Joining us now is Eden Lassie.
Eden welcome back to the show.
Thanks so much for having me back.
It's nice to have you around when it's not tournament time.
So many other things in women's hoops to talk about .
Yeah.
I know, a little break from March Madness content for me.
A little break from March Madness content, yes.
And today we're talking about the World Cup.
You wrote a story on The Athletic today that talks about the wave of French players that have made their way into the W. And I guess we should back up a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, for so long we've had tons of French basketball talent, but most of them stayed home to play.
They didn't really come over stateside to join the W. But now we're seeing this huge influx of players like, you know, Diamond Longa didn't even play overseas this season.
She stayed like in the US to play unrivaled after playing with Seattle Storm.
So where did this all happen?
Like take us back to the beginning.
When did this French pipeline start to wanna join the WNBA?
Yeah.
I think there was a lot of things that kind of influenced it.
If you were gonna trace it back to, you know, a player, it would of course be Marine Johannes fro- who's on the New York Liberty.
Just because I think prior to her, it wasn't necessarily a thing that French players did, right If you were a really good player, they tended to, the federation tended to kinda push you into longterm contracts starting when you were like 16 in France, so they could keep an eye on you and then you're making money.
And when the WNBA wasn't really a lucrative place, there was no reason for players to go over there unless you were someone like Marine Johannes who didn't grow up like as one of the top players in France, like she wasn't thought of as going to be what she is now.
So she really had like her own way of figuring out basketball, learning to love basketball, and that was watching highlights on YouTube.
So she watched a lotta WNBA, a lotta NBA, and that really made her want to come over.
And then in 2019 when the money was not good and not a reason to come, she still did because it was a dream, and she saw just how good the talent was.
And so she kinda opened things up from there, and it's just sort of been a snowball effect since then with a lotta different things playing into it.
Yeah.
But to that point of about 2019, obviously she, I think in addition to her desire to play in the WNBA, she had to kind of reset how the federation operated in terms of its relationship with players playing in the WNBA and it allowing them to play in the WNBA.
So can we get into that as well and, and how she kind of Her experience- Mm-hmm forced the federation to change its, its operational standards a little bit when it comes to allowing players to play in the WNBA.
Yeah, totally.
I think anybody who, you know, paid attention to overseas basketball knew that France had good players.
But they also knew that there was really no point in trying to convince them to come to the United States whether it was for college or for the WNBA.
Because like I said, the Federation was really protective of their talent.
You know, a lot of their best players go to INSEP which is an athletic academy and they liked to be able to watch them and kind of see what they're doing all the time.
So the idea of sending them overseas was not appealing to the federation.
And then also because there wasn't a lot money in the league, it wasn't appealing to agents either so no one was really gonna push that on, you know, a 16 year old kid who's just learning - to play basketball.
But for Marine because she figured all this stuff out on her own and she's kind of a trailblazer - in her own right, you know, you can see the way she plays basketball is very counter to kind of the five on five like move the ball to w- sorta style that France plays.
So she's always been a little different, always been on her own path.
And so she decided to go to the WNBA.
When that became a problem was with prioritization and when you had to decla- like, when you had to be in the US, when you had to be in France.
So for the 2023, during the 2023 season when, France was preparing for the Olympics and playing in tournaments, she was not able to meet their deadlines and so they left her off the team and that caused like a lotta controversy.
And she knew that it would.
It was dramatic for a few years.
The French media was going crazy 'cause they all wanted her to be on the team.
You know, a lotta different like French players like Tony Parker was kinda speaking up on her behalf.
And but the fear was that she would get left off the Olympic team if she didn't play during the 2023 season.
So eventually the Federation realized they couldn't leave her off the Olympic team; it would just be too big of a deal.
She's too big of a talent.
And sh- in France she is the most recognizable women's basketball player in France.
So there was no way to not have her on the team.
And so then after that it was kind of like okay we've sort of gotta change our thinking when it comes to this.
And then Gabby Williams was always b- also - Yeah a big one because she's from the United States so she sort of was a bridge to be like "Well I know how good the talent is in the WNBA.
I know why players will wanna go over there and now I'm coming to play with you guys and I'm gonna tell you all about it."
So it was just really kind of a combination of those two factors.
The thing that I find interesting though when we talk about Gabby is it, it's kind of this in reverse.
Yeah.
She has prioritized France over the WNBA at times in her career and so I wonder if you can elaborate on, you know, why that has been the case and if she's, you know, felt that need to do that in order to solidify her relationship with, with the Federation in a way that Marine maybe kind of handled in the opposite way?
Yeah, totally.
I think, you know, a fun thing that I talk about in the story is like when Marine was on her laptop watching, or not laptop it was probably a family computer at that point.
We're - We're the same age .
So when she was watching YouTube of, you know, of Diana Taurasi and Candice Parker, Gabby Williams was at her computer playing French games with her grandma who's from France.
So like from a young age France was the really cool thing for her which yeah France is very cool so that makes sense.
Like makes sense why she would be interested in that.
And then she said when she would watch the Olympics she'd watch France and be interested in them.
So then but she still played in the USA system because she was in the US and she didn't know anything else was possible.
And then after college someone was like, "Hey why don't you represent France?"
And as soon as she realized she could that's what she wanted to do.
She's always been very connected to her French heritage, based on her little 4"11 grandma who taught her everything she needs to know about France.
Nothing about basketball because 4"11 but still very cute.
And so because of her she ended up, you know, really loving French basketball and wanting to be a part of that team.
And I think her prioritizing playing for France didn't really have anything to do with, you know, trying to get in good with the Federation because she waited her turn for a long time.
There was a lotta times when she wanted to be on the team and they were leaving her off and it was French media who were asking why isn't Gabby Williams on the team.
Mm-hmm.
So she really waited her turn and kinda played by the rules like you said, but never really pushed anything.
And I think just her mindset and like the competitive edge she brings and the experience of playing both places and being able to tell people about both things really pushed things forward as well.
Yeah I think just the schedule of the French League even before we get to like the international team was - Yep so restrictive of them coming to the - WNBA.
Like it would end so much later than like Turkey or, you know, other places in Europe where they could still come over to the US.
I remember like if you played in a French league you basically had zero chance of coming to WNBA training camp - Right because you just wouldn't be able to get out in time.
And so with prioritization I feel like a lot of that has changed where the calendar has moved up and so people can sort of navigate both things and-- Mm-hmm that just naturally is gonna allow more French players to want to come to the W because you physically can, right?
Like it's so hard to come over when you don't have that training camp opportunity.
Yeah, totally.
And I think too, you know, in years past the French league had been really strong so it was kind of a trade off players were willing to make, but it's not necessarily as strong as it used to be.
So suddenly it's not quite as appealing.
I feel like we're seeing that just all around world where because fewer Americans are going over to play than the, the opportunity to play with the best in the world isn't necessarily available in all of the European leagues - and so you have to come to the W to make that happen which I mean was I guess the goal of privatization the whole time.
So.
Yeah.
Yep yep.
When it comes to even the way that the landscape is shifting it's interesting to consider how A place like France that has invested so much in its game, and it being a place that produces some of the top talent.
As the WNBA's footprint expands, is there much that again, like France can really do to combat that?
Because we are seeing fewer players go overseas, and what is that gonna look like long term for a place like France, again, that has prioritized the game there so much?
Yeah.
I think that is something that, you know, people in France, in the French basketball sphere are a little worried about, just because things are changing quite rapidly.
You know, I was talking to Marine Johannes' agent, Caroline Aubert, and she said this is the first time in, like a decade that sh- of working as an agent that she's represented more players playing outside of France than in France.
So not even just going to the US, they're starting to kinda dip their toes into other leagues as well if they're not going to the W. Mm-hmm.
So I think it's definitely changing French basketball.
Now I think it becomes, okay, what's kind of the focus, you know?
Is it, is it so important to you that you have your players playing professionally here, or is it more important that they're developing and playing well on the national team?
But it's definitely gonna change, and they're gonna have conversations about it.
You know, the federation came to Gabby Williams when the new CBA was going into effect and said, "Hey," like, "Is this gonna change things?"
And she was very honest and said, "Of course it is."
You know, they're offering a lot more money now, and so it is gonna be more lucrative and more desirable for players to, to come overseas and to play in the United States.
And so now suddenly those agents who didn't wanna make deals before to send people away, now it's more desirable for them, and now it's more desirable for the players.
So the federation doesn't really have a foot to stand on to say you have to stay or to encourage them to stay, because they're gonna get the best basketball and the most money playing in the WNBA.
And you'd think that they would be okay with that, especially now when we consider where they're at on the world stage.
Obviously, we're talking about - Mm-hmm the World Cup and, I mean, outside of the US, I think they are considered the top challenger to - Mm-hmm to the US in this, this World Cup.
They certainly were during the 2024 Olympics.
There are 13 French players in the WNBA currently.
So yeah.
I guess the World Cup stage is like a, gonna be a good example of, of how this is working maybe to the advantage of, of the French Federation.
Yeah, definitely.
And I think, you know, from talking to the players that I did for this story, the federation has kind of seen the error of its ways, you know?
And with, in the drama with Marine, they realized that that was not the way to go, and so they're, you know, being more open to supporting their players kind of whichever avenue they wanna go on.
And I think too, you know, if, if the team does really well, then that's plenty of proof as to why, you know, it's good to have players in the WNBA.
Yeah, I thought it was interesting last year that, a lot of players stayed home during EuroBasket, and that hasn't always been- I shouldn't say stayed home.
They stayed in the WNBA during EuroBasket instead of going to compete for France.
And that kinda felt like it would've been hugely taboo previously, and France was just like, all right.
Okay.
Like this is what we have to deal with now.
Yeah, because again, when, you know, you have 13 French players in the WNBA and most of those players make up the national team, what can you say really?
You know, you can't say, "Well, we're gonna field a whole new team," 'cause then you're not gonna be competitive, right?
So they sort of, you know, have come to their senses I think a little bit by force and a little bit by trying to understand the climate a little bit more.
WNBA expansion is obviously creating a ton more roster opportunities for international talent, but again, we're seeing at this stage, at least this season, the French players have maybe like taken the most advantage o- of this or, or have benefited the most from this expansion, again, this season.
I guess what can you say about how this trend could continue, and, and should we expect it to continue with, additional like French players joining the WNBA as expansion continues?
Yeah.
I think, you know, expansion is only gonna bring players from more countries.
You know, I think we're gonna see similar things happening with Spain.
I think, you know, Australia's already been having that pipeline to the US, so there's always been a lotta W players from there.
So that'll continue as well.
But yeah, I think now, you know, a lot of players on the f- French National Team watched, like Pauline Astier watched Marine Johannes and said, "Ooh, I wanna do what she does," right?
And so the next generation is really gonna see that, and then of course more roster spots means more opportunity for them.
And so, you know, it's an obvious, obvious that there are gonna be more players from other countries.
And I think another thing that's really gonna impact it too is again, there never were very many French players in college basketball.
Suddenly now we're starting to really see that in, at some of the top programs as well, like South Carolina and UConn.
So they're coming over because, you know, they can play.
They can get that NIL, and then, you know, what follows is to expect that they'll stay and play in the WNBA if they're good enough.
You know, France has never really been like a European powerhouse.
Why, why do you think like there is this generation of players who are having so much success, not just in the USA, but also internationally Yeah, I think a lot of it, you know, is always gonna be a little bit of luck too, right?
Like they can't pick who's, who's French.
So- Just the fact that like D- Dom Malonga Well I guess you kinda can.
There's some people that play for countries that it doesn't make sense.
Sure.
Yeah.
But like players like Dom Malonga, you know, that's like a once in a lifetime player, right?
She's incredible.
She's versatile.
To having her on the team at the same time as someone like, you know, Gabby Williams, at the same time as some guards that are coming up like Carla Leite who wasn't in the, Olympics, but will be playing now, you know, is huge.
They've just got so much talent, so it's kind of like a lucky time for them.
But then also they've really, really invested in the last few years, you know?
INSEP is a huge sports academy and other countries send their federations over to check it out to see what they're doing, how they're training their players because it's become kind of world renowned for all the work that they do and the way they train up their athletes.
So it's sort of perfect storm for France right now.
And then two, it's just been a little bit of like a, a renaissance in the way that they look at basketball, right?
They're starting to become a lot more competitive.
The younger generation really, really wants to win.
Whereas, you know, Gabby Williams told me before when she first started playing for France it was kind of like, "Oh, if we win yay, if we don't," like no big deal.
And she was like, "Huh?"
'Cause obviously - that's not the case in the United States, right?
So now we're starting to see them become more competitive.
You know, Pauline Astier straight up said that they're gonna beat the US this time.
And you know, when I asked that question to Marine Johannes she was like, " Oh, like I wouldn't say that."
You know, she's kinda dancing around it.
So it just shows how different it is for those youngsters that are just really ready to- to go out and compete.
So I'm curious what you learned i- in reporting on this story about INSEP and - Mm-hmm .
When it, it, r- If the standard as far as the investment into the training and, and the development of, of their women players was always matching the investment in, into the- Mm-hmm men's basketball side or if this has kind of been a recent development?
And by recent I mean, you know, the last two decades, the last decade.
If there's been a shift in their prioritization of their women's basketball.
Yeah, I really think there has been just on, you know, women's athletics in general.
I think INSEP is a concept that we see all over the world for soccer academies mostly.
Mm-hmm.
So they're-- But theirs has come You know, they do all sports, and I think that's something that's a little different.
And also something that we just don't really understand in the US 'cause we have that, right?
We have, you know, AAU, but you're not going to a school that's gonna teach you how to play basketball.
Like, that's kind of your job to figure out, and then if you're good you go compete other places, right?
So obviously they're taking the best talent and they really are investing in it, and yeah, we hadn't seen that before.
You know, we had seen good men's players come out of France.
Not a ton, but enough that they made an impact.
You know, I mentioned Tony Parker before.
But now they are really spreading it around.
It just goes to show like women's basketball is getting huge, not just in the US- Mm-hmm but all over the world.
Yeah, so they have, Annie mentioned, there's 13 WNBA players from France.
They obviously went toe-to-toe, no pun intended with the US, in the gold medal final in 2024.
So I guess what should we expect from them at this World Cup?
You know, Pauline Astier said that they plan to beat the US, but- Mm-hmm is that realistic?
I love the energy.
Me too, yeah.
It was re- it was really fun when she said that 'cause I- it was kind of unprompted.
I just said, "Oh, what can, you know, we expect from this rivalry going forward?'
And she's like, "Well, we're gonna beat 'em."
I was like, "All right."
Ah.
Love it.
I love it.
I love it.
But s- I think, yes, I think they could beat the US.
I think especially now that they played so close with them before, you know, there's gonna be a lot of confidence going into this.
I think Abby Williams is as talented as she is in the WNBA she's a whole different player with France.
Like, you can just tell how much it means to her to play for France, and she kinda takes her game to the next level.
I think someone like Dom Malonga could really dominate, especially because A'ja Wilson won't be playing for- Mm-hmm Team USA.
So that's a big, a big hit to Team USA and it could open the door for some other teams like France to, you know, maybe give them a run, especially because, like I said, France knows that it's not an impossibility anymore, you know?
It used to feel like it, but like you mentioned, they were one point and a tow away from going to overtime, so a lot of things are possible and I think it, it's gonna be a really fun tournament.
How does, I mean, this seems kind of like an obvious discussion point.
I feel like we all ha- Yep will have opinions here, but the fact that they play against each other in the W, they know each other's tendencies.
The World Cup and the Olympics is when we see that, you know, taken advantage of.
And so when you consider a player like Gabby who again is, is just a mastermind on the court, how much of an advantage does that give the French national team when they have so many more players playing on WNBA rosters too?
It's not just Gabby Williams, it's not just Marine, it's now, like you said, Dominique Malonga, Pauline Astier.
Like these, they have eight players on their national team that are, are competing- Yeah, eight in the WNBA.
And so that's the second most to the US.
How do we think that's gonna play out, guys?
I think the biggest thing for me is it probably sounds kinda cheesy, but it's the confidence factor.
Yeah.
Right?
Like if you're a young player like Carla Leite or like Pauline Astier, and you're gonna look across and see, ooh, these big names for the first time, that can be a little scary, but now they're like, "Well, I've played against them every single day in the WNBA and I do just fine."
So suddenly they're probably gonna feel a little bit better than they might have if it was just like this kind of big, scary Team USA that they'd only ever seen from a distance.
You know, they play with them so they know what it's like and they know that they can compete I wonder if that also helps the US, like correspondingly from a scouting advantage that like you know Carla Leite's game.
You know what Pauline Astier- Yeah can do now.
It's not so much like a theoretical we've seen them on film.
It's like yeah, I mean, the Indiana Fever just played the New York Liberty.
They know exactly what Marine and Pauline can do.
So I think that kinda works in both ways, but it definitely I think the confidence factor is probably more important than the scouting factor.
Yeah, I, I would agree with it working in both ways and the confidence factor.
Another thing I'm thinking about now is the mental aspect of being the enforcer, being the one with something to sustain when you're talking about the US.
Like, that is a totally different weight than coming in as the team that has confidence after almost beating them, right?
It's like that's a whole different level of pressure, and I think that's why in this moment even, again, we've talked about all week the US being the heavy favorite.
But you can't shake the feeling that there's something shifting here on the global stage, and we're gonna see th- in the next two weeks what that shift really looks like and how significant that shift really is.
And that's what I think is so exciting about, about this World Cup specifically.
Yeah, I totally agree.
Like, I think if you're the USA, you don't wanna be the team that's the first one to lose in what, like-- 20 years .
However many year.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Forever, right?
Yep.
Like, you don't wanna be that team, so how's that gonna manifest?
Is that gonna manifest at them just coming out and completely blowing the brakes off everybody because they' tallerre like, "This is important.
We really wanna play for it"?
Or is it gonna be a little nervy, and now they don't, you know, suddenly they feel a little more beatable?
We'll just kind of see how that plays out.
But I'm excited because I think it's great for the game to have like more competition, you know?
Yeah.
Like, as fun as it is to watch the US, like completely dominate, like when I was a kid watching that was so fun, but I think it's more fun to say, "Hm, I don't actually know exactly what's gonna happen."
Yeah.
And like we had brought up on yesterday's show, you know, when the US lost to Russia 20 years ago, which was their last loss, Russia had played them within single digits three times before- you know, getting to that point.
And France has been pretty close at the 2021 Olympics, you know, in that group stage.
Obviously the one-point game in 2024.
So, like Chantel likes to say, you know, the, the history has a way of rhyming, if not repeating itself.
That's a great phrase, yes.
Okay.
All right.
We will see.
We will definitely see.
But now that we've, you know, gotten this look at France, we're gonna take a little break and then come back and talk about some other teams that could potentially challenge the USA.All right, 16 teams in this World Cup.
It's not just USA versus France, so let's take a broader look here.
Eden, is there anyone that you have your eye on who could make things interesting for the United States?
Yeah, I think, you know, kind of in the order of how competitive I think they're gonna be is, you know, Belgium could be competitive.
Germany could be relatively competitive.
Australia as well.
And again, those are teams that have players that have been in the W so that we see them, we know what they're like, and, you know, it'll be easier for them to compete.
I think France is the team that has the best chance, but, you know, those could be interesting.
I don't think the US will any issue with China, but I do think that'll be a fun and interesting game because we get to watch someone who's 7'5" or something like that playing, which is crazy.
She's still growing.
I don't know if the actual listed height- Yeah is what it's supposed to be.
True, yeah.
Tomorrow we could turn it on- So, yeah and she could be 7'10", so we'll see.
Yeah.
But yeah, so I think that's really interesting just because I think with her and, Han Xu, that's like the first time that I think a team's gonna have a height advantage on the US, so that's fun.
I don't necessarily think it'll turn into anything, but it is interesting.
Another team I'm really interested in, and you mentioned them yesterday Sabrina, is Spain.
And it's, you know, I, I think what's happening or what we're seeing with them is obviously they've been, I guess we could say relatively quiet in international competitions in recent years.
But they're, eh- it's almost like they've been quietly building, and now their roster even at the World cup has six WNBA players, including Raquel Carrera, who plays for the New York Liberty, Maria Conde, who plays for the Toronto Tempo.
So I don't know.
They seem like a team that is not necessarily being ala fam.
Oh my God, how can we forget Ala Fam?
Yep.
My bad.
But you know what I'm saying?
Like this is a team that, I don't know, d- doesn't seem to be talked about enough right now, and I wonder if that's a mistake or just a product of the fact that, again, they haven't been as competitive on, in international competitions in recent years.
Yeah, I think they're still younger, sort of on the come up.
They do have an incredibly, successful coach, Miguel Mendes, who has won just like at every level internationally, so I think that helps quite a bit.
You know, we talked yesterday about the US' relative lack of experience in their coaching staff, and that, that's not the case for Spain, so you know, one thing they definitely have in their favor.
I wonder if there's just like any weaknesses for the US that we should think about that other teams could target.
Like, this is obviously the most talented team.
I'm not saying that there's like places to poke, but like, what, what are like the, the relative weaknesses are you know, compared to the strengths that the US has?
I think it's the front court without Asia.
Mm-hmm.
And so to your point, Eden, the question of how they're going to match up against a player like Dominique Malonga is a question mark for me.
And also how they're gonna replace that scoring output.
Again, we talked about that yesterday, but That's, that's we're gonna see that like live in action.
Yeah.
I think it's a really great chance for Kiki Irafen to kind of show her stuff, show what she's made of.
You know, she's such a talented player, and having someone like her able to come in and replace Aja is a big luxury.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Totally.
She's not Aja Wilson Right nobody is, but she's still gonna be-- you know if you put her on any of the other teams, I think she's one of the best players on any of those teams.
So you know the Aja thing might not end up being as big of a deal as, as I think it is just because of her, but it certainly is something to keep an eye on.
Yeah, I'm just a little concerned about the USA's guard defense.
Like they have so many really prolific scoring guards whether that's Caitlin or Paige or even Chelsea Gray, Jackie Young.
But none of them I would say like defense is their strong suit.
And you can get away with that I guess on WNBA teams when everybody's sort of-- I don't even know if you can get away from WN team-- WNBA teams.
Like we've seen teams target that.
But like I've seen, you know the Portland Fire target C- Kaitlyn Clark with Carla Late.
You know we've seen Indian or New York do the same thing with Paulina Astia against the Indiana Fever.
Like there are really, really dynamic guards at other teams in this tournament that could poke at the US.
And I was less worried about that when you have Stewie and A'ja on the back line.
I'm a little bit more worried about that when A'ja is not on that back line.
Yeah, I think that's something Kahleah Copper talked about in one of the recent media availabilities saying that at this stage like their defense has to be locked down.
And I think When you again, when you go through this roster all of these players are well most of these players are the first and second option offensively on their team, but they're surrounded by defensive threats in the WNBA.
And that again Is not necessarily the case.
I do think Kahleah Copper's a, reliable defender.
Ryan Howard obviously Mm-hmm.
But yeah when you consider Caitlyn Page Those are our two where At that point of attack It becomes a question Yeah any sleeper teams you guys have your eye on maybe Not like metal contenders but Just If a couple things shake right We'll be talking about Them five days From now Yeah I think The point That both Sabrina Annie Made About Spain Really interesting Don't Know Necessarily For This Tournament Said Something Probably Clearly See Growth Could End Up Following Kind Of Similar Trajectory French Team Start To Some Players Alba Fam What They Can Do National Stage Then Gets Us All Excited Olympics Future Competitions I mean already mentioned them Me Think Belgium Also Germany Leonie Fiebich Such Talent WNBA Gabby Williams Way Her Games Changes With National Same Be said Leoni Think Knockout Rounds Interesting Either Teams Through These Are Two Less Discussed Again USAs France Per Se Deserve That same respect I really like watching Nigeria.
I think Rena Wakama has done such a good job with that program and you know She's a MBA assistant did Great Job Unrivaled They seem exactly Who Play Expect Win Their Group Francis Group Wouldn't Huge Upset Finish Second Hungary Korea Puts In Good Position However Thing Scheduled Quite Understand Plans Second Third Chance Going Through Team Italy Cool Experiencing Resurgence Family Go Italy Allowed Say Long Live Ceci Zandalacini Spiritually Player Wanna Be NBA One Job Make Shots Super Cool Doing It Seen Many Games Has Passed Yet Making All The Shots Eden As Always Fun Joining Ready World Cup Read Story History Basketball Wave Coming Into Athletic Your Time Thank Guys Today Tuning Programming Note Tuesday Labor Day Weekend Thursday Conversations Across Please Sign Up Newsletter Comes Out Tuesday Had Great Time Writing Finished Season Letter Believe It YouTube Sports Stories Stop Talking About Watch Biggest Matchups Most Tapped Reporters Conversation Chat Presented September Subscribe Now Sure Follow Five Stars Comments Stuff athletic Eden Lassie Andy Constable Listening See Next No Offseason Hosted Xena Cada Shantel Jennings Merchant Produced Tanika Burrell Executive Andrea B Scott Monica Compton Video Editor Marcus Fogala Shannon Brian Managing Women's Basketball
