A’ja, Olivia or Caitlin: Who Deserves MVP?

Sat, September 5, 2026 at 4:31 PM UTC

The WNBAs award races are heating up as the regular season winds down. Sabreena and Annie kick things off by breaking down the impact of Azzi Fudds injury on the Dallas Wings and what it could mean for her development moving forward. Then, they dive into the MVP race featuring Aja Wilson, Olivia Miles, Kelsey Mitchell and Caitlin Clark, while also discussing the possibility of co-MVPs and the growing influence of guards in the conversation. They also discuss the Coach of the Year race, including Cheryl Reeve and Natalie Nakase, and take a closer look at the Defensive Player of the Year debate, with Gabby Williams and Aja Wilson among the names in the mix. With individual performance, team success and voting transparency all part of the conversation, the final games of the season could have a major impact on who takes home the hardware. Finally, the duo tells you which games to keep an eye on this weekend. No Offseason is a part of The Athletic Podcast Network: Sign up for the No Offseason Newsletter: 00:00 Intro 00:54 Azzi Fudd's season ends due to knee injury 06:31 The impact of losing Azzi Fudd 11:15 How will this injury impact Azzi's development? 14:45 Evaluating the MVP race 28:08 The history of the WNBA MVP award 30:24 Why isn't Breanna Stewart in the MVP conversation? 33:31 The Coach of the Year Race 45:50 Who's in the DPOY race? Related links and articles: Follow and listen to the audio podcast: Get in touch! Leave a comment wherever youre listening, or email us at NoOffseason@TheAthletic.com Show Links: -YouTube: @No-Offseason -Instagram: @tanooffseason [ -TikTok: @no_offseason [ Credits: -Zena on BlueSky: @zenakeita -Sabreena on BlueSky: @sabreenajm -Chantel on BlueSky: @chanteljennings -Layshia on IG: @layshiac -Annie on X: @anniecostabile -Produced by Taneka Burrell -Executive Produced by Andrea B. Scott Visit the Yahoo Women's Sports Hub: Full Episodes Playlist: Shorts Playlist:

Video Transcript

Caitlin Clark And I know everybody in the comments, again, wants to say that she's not even the MVP on her team, and I think you made a really good point when we were talking about this, in that it's about her play making and the way that she impacts the overall team that has to be taken into consideration when you're having this discussion.

Hello everyone, and welcome to No Off Season.

I'm Sabrina Merchant.

And I'm Annie Costabile.

And today on the show, we are past the three-quarter pole of the season when WNBA awards races are becoming a little bit easier to evaluate, so we're taking a closer look at who's making the strongest cases for MVP, Coach of the Year, and Defensive Player of the Year.

But first, unfortunate news coming out of Dallas.

The Wings announced on Wednesday that number one overall pick AZ Fudd will miss the remainder of the season, undergo surgery on her right knee.

Annie, just first thought when you got that email and just what a bummer this is that AZ's gonna miss the last 10 games of the season.

Yeah, obviously a huge bummer, but my second thought after that one was how concerned should we all be about this?

Because, you know, this isn't an isolated situation in the sense that she has dealt with knee injuries in the past.

She also has dealt with this knee soreness this season, and so, the hope is, is right, you, you have this procedure, and it fixes things.

But again, considering the fact that she tore her right ACL and a meniscus in college, it just raises some questions about her long-term health.

And so that is something you hope doesn't hamper her career because she, she has had an impressive rookie season when she's been available.

Yeah, I mean, not only did she tear her right ACL in college, she also tore that same ACL in high school before getting to UConn.

So like you said, it's been, a, unfortunately an ongoing thing that AZ's had to deal with these knee injuries.

And, you know, one of the reasons why she came back for that fifth year at UConn, even after winning the title, was to prove that she could have an extended stretch of being healthy, and I think that was a big part of the reason why the Wings selected her number one overall, because of that All-American, that season that she had, you know, in her last season in college.

So yeah, I know that it was just a little confusing to me when the news came out because the first day that she was ruled out, you know, you get the email from the Wings about an hour before tip-off that was like, "Out of an abundance of caution, we're gonna-" Mm-hmm "rule AZ out of today's game because she experienced some tightness or some soreness during warmups."

And, you know, she was traveling with the team, looked like she was still participating in a lot of workouts, and Jose Fernandez had even said that like he expected AZ Fudd to return sooner than Jessica Shepard.

And Jessica Shepard's back.

You know, she played in Monday's game, against Golden State for Dallas, and obviously now AZ is out for however long this procedure ends up taking.

We do know that she has signed on to play with Project B during the off-season.

Unclear whether that's still gonna be, feasible for her with this procedure and the recovery, but what we do know is that she's gonna miss this time with the Wings and, you know, whatever their potential postseason run ends up being.

But yeah, it's, it is just a little concerning because of the, the history of AZ's injuries and, you know, you just hope that whatever they're doing in Dallas is, is keeping her longevity, you know, intact for the long run because like I, I didn't even realize this until I, I wrote the Newsroom yesterday, like she has averaged more minutes in the WNBA than she ever did in college.

And like I had this thing in my head that like, "Oh, like she played a lot of minutes at UConn obviously."

Like she, was one of their best players.

But no, like she's played more minutes for the Wings than she ever did for UConn, and that's a hard transition for rookies to come in and immediately just April you're in the Final Four, end of April you're in training camp, May you're playing WNBA games, and boom.

So I, I almost like re- think that because of all of these amazing rookie seasons we've seen so far, like with Caitlin, with Paige, with Olivia, that like it sort of blurs the fact that this is supposed to be hard.

Like this is supposed to be a transition from college, to the pros that everyone's making look like so n- like almost like it's nothing.

But it is, it is an adjustment for players to have to make, so hopefully like whatever rookie wall AZ's body has, has hit is not, you know, some long-term thing.

Yeah, I mean, when you talk about Jose Fernandez's comment about AZ being on track to come back before Jess Shepard or Jessica Shepard, I called Jess Jessica just one time and she was like, "It's Jessica from now."

I was like, "Don't call her Jess.

That's only her friends can call her that."

Anyways, when you talk about Jose Fernandez saying that, that leads me to believe that this is a procedure that has more foresight than just her playing through the end of the season, right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Because it sounds like she maybe could have played through it.

I mean, even her, you know, going through warmups, what was it, in Indiana and potentially playing and then again being ruled out, it looks like it's a situation where maybe she could have played through some of this.

Of course, I, I don't know that for sure at this point.

But the other thing is the Wings without her now Are a team that, as we've seen, are struggling.

I mean, this is a team that defensively has, has shown weakness throughout the season.

They're one and four since AZ was sidelined on August 7th.

They are riding a two-game losing streak going into Thursday's game against Indiana.

So by the time you guys listen to this, we'll, you know, the outcome of that game will be out.

But, you know, this, this definitely intensifies things for, for the Wings even in their playoff push this year.

Yeah.

I mean, you mentioned the defensive struggles that Dallas has had.

I think a lot of those have been interior struggles, but like AZ's their best perimeter defender, and that obviously has a knock down effect on like how many guards get into the paint and like what their bigs are having to deal with once, that first line of defense is compromised.

She has like the best plus minus on the team this season, which is really impressive for a rookie, and also just sort of speaks to the fact about how kind of irreplaceable she is in this roster construction.

You know, like we've seen Odyssey Sims get a couple starts in her absence.

We saw Alicia Clark get a start and Golden State in her absence.

Both of whom like don't really have the same like can guard on the ball like AZ can and also spread the floor like AZ can.

So yeah, I, I think this is like just a real, I don't wanna say death knell for like Dallas' postseason hopes, but like they're already sitting in the eight seed.

They've had a bit of a rough time coming out of the break before AZ got hurt, and now you're taking away one of their starters.

And the one who like obviously Paige would be the most irreplaceable I think, but like there isn't really another person who can do what AZ can do on this team.

And it just, it's unfortunate because like I think everyone was looking forward to Paige having a nice like longer postseason run, seeing what she was capable of doing at that next stage of her WNBA career, and now I'm looking at it, well, I think they're probably gonna be the eight seed just because even though they have a relatively easy schedule coming up, they are still two losses behind the Mystics as of this recording.

Again, they could beat the Fever tonight and sort of change the outlook here.

But if you get the eight seed, that basically means you're lining up against Minnesota, and Minnesota is a really hard team to be missing a guard defender against.

Okay, wait.

I just wanna throw something out there right now- Mm-hmm to really stir the pot a little bit, okay?

Um- Okay the Chicago Sky and the Portland Fire are obviously behind, the Dallas Wings right now in the standings.

Yes.

I believe the Sky are four and a half games behind or four games behind, and then the Fire three and a half games behind.

So let's say- I mean, the, the Sky, let's just be clear- You know- are six losses behind, okay?

Oh, six.

And- Okay.

My bad.

Six, six, six and the Fire are five losses behind.

So- Okay mathematically possible what we're suggesting here.

But Let's just say, let's just say who of the two do you think has a better shot at sneaking into that eight spot?

I have thought about this for Portland for quite a bit just because I made one of my preseason predictions that an expansion team would make the playoffs, and Toronto's already eliminated, so Portland's my last shot here.

But Portland- has three games left against the Valkyries, and those seem like they're not all gonna be wins.

So - Yeah they've gotta go basically like eight and one, and the Wings would have to lose out to make this happen.

Sorry, they're only four losses behind the Wings.

But yeah, I, I don't know.

In nine games to make up four losses is, is tough, especially when I don't think they have the tiebreaker on the Wings.

So you gotta be like five games better than them.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think, I think Dallas is pretty secure- It's tough in the playoffs.

Yeah.

But I mean, they're not, they're not set, right?

Like, I think it's a reasonable point to bring up that like s- other teams are lurking, if not like in position to immediately overtake.

The, the fear could be there.

Yeah.

It's just in recent years, the last week of the season, in fact the last day of the regular season has been a decider in the eight seed, and we're not seeing that this year.

There is that gap, that five-game gap.

And so I'm just wondering if this last, you know, three weeks slate is gonna spice things up a, a little bit.

And it, and again, I mean, one in four, not great.

So the Wings- But like- certainly aren't trending in the right direction after they play the Fever, the Dallas Wings don't have any games against prospective playoff teams for the rest of the season.

So- Okay this is in their hands to really lock, you know, lock a playoff spot down, prove that they can get there without AZ.

One game remaining against the Portland Fire, which will be interesting, you know?

If Portland wins that game- Mm-hmm then maybe you start to sow some doubt.

But yeah, I, I would be shocked if the Wings fell out the playoffs.

Too early for the doubt.

Well, with this time now, because obviously AZ's, you know, undergoing this procedure next week, is gonna be out for a period of time, what is the impact you see this having on her development going forward?

Yeah, I think it, it, a lot of it depends on what the recovery timeline is.

Like, what she is able to do during the WNBA off-season, because like an arthroscopic surgery, I'm not sure like how long the, the recovery time is or like how long she'll be out for.

All she said on her Instagram was like, you know, "Thanks for the support."

Didn't mention whether she's still gonna be able to do Project B or, you know, have to opt out of that for this season.

So I think some of it is still up in the air based on exactly what kind of procedure is being done.

But yeah, you know, off-seasons are obviously an important period of time for young players to work on their games and, figure out exactly how it is that they can adjust to the pro level.

I honestly wonder like maybe the rest will just be the best thing for her because of that, you know- elongated season that she's been playing from November of college up until now.

But yeah, the, like, the things in her game that you would hope to see improvement on like the, the play making, you know, just, like, the individual shot creation, I don't know when, when she'll be able to be back on the court to do those sort of things.

I think the most important thing really for AZ is, like, she wants to have a long professional career, and getting her knees right is number one step for that.

Yeah.

Knees you don't wanna mess with.

You do not wanna mess with, yeah.

I was just, like, reminded of, you know, she, the, the Wings had a game in Golden State, and AZ obviously has been, closely associated with Stephen Curry for a long time because she was, like, the first girl to attend his camp.

She was part of the, you know, Under Armour Curry brand.

And he, got a lot of flack on her podcast for having not attended a single game while she was there at UConn, and so obviously, like, he makes the effort to go to this Wings game, which unfortunately she's not playing in.

But he had to deal with a lot of ankle injuries at the start of his career, and, like, just getting his body right was the number one thing to lead to his, you know, remarkable, historic, greatest shooter of all time NBA career.

So I think she has a lot of people in her corner who have dealt with, you know, these kinds of injuries at the start of their careers and just figuring out how to get everything in order.

Like, that has to be- Mm-hmm pressed in over, like, ball handling drills and whatever's gonna come in the off-season.

Just, like, make sure the knee's right and then everything else can follow.

100%.

And again, going back to what Jose said, it's like this seems like a situation that is more be proactive than- Yeah reactionary.

Totally.

Yeah, so best of luck to AZ, you know, wishing her a speedy and healthy recovery, and, unfortunately this probably means we can, close the book on any potential Rookie of the Year discussion, but we have a lot more award races to talk about on the other side of the break.

All right.

We are in the last eight or so games of the WNBA season, which is crazy, Annie.

I keep thinking it's more, I guess because of the World Cup break that it feels like there's so much time left, but really it's, like, seven or eight games for most of these teams, which means we have a lot of the information we're gonna have when it comes to deciding who is gonna win these awards.

And, you know, we gotta start at the top.

You and I wrote a piece, that went on the site on Thursday about the MVP conversation, where it is right now, you know, who could make their way into it.

And yeah, let, let's just start there.

Front runners for the MVP, I think A'ja Wilson is obviously number one top of mind for everyone because of the season she's had with Las Vegas.

But we have a ballot of five players, Annie, so who else belongs in consideration for those other four names?

Well, it's great to see that everyone is having a total normal reaction to our evaluation of the MVP race.

Love that.

Keep it up, guys.

Keep it up.

Really dig it.

But beyond A'ja, I mean, obviously as we wrote, Olivia Miles has been in the conversation throughout the year, and again, as we wrote, a large part of that is because of the Lynx standing in, you know, league standings throughout the season.

They've been in that number one spot for a majority of the season outside of, what, the early c- first few weeks.

Exactly.

And they were doing that without Napheesa Collier.

That's the other, you know, thing to note here.

And I think Olivia is a really good example of why the, the MVP award doesn't just go to somebody with the best stat line.

That's not how it's always determined, right?

It's, it's, you know, everyone has their, their way of, of evaluating or, or naming, making an MVP selection, but for some people it is about factors like what we're seeing in Minnesota, which is a player impacting a team that's dealing with X, Y, and Z adversity and, and still leading them to the best record in the WNBA.

Beyond Olivia, there's obviously Kelsey Mitchell, who I don't think was or in the early conversation for the same reason that Olivia Miles was in and is in the conversation, and that's because the Indiana Fever were, you know, high and low for the first half of the season.

And we've said this before, but they've really in the last few years been a second half team, and we're once again seeing that play out in 2026.

The other, Caitlin Clark.

And I know everybody in the comments again wants to say that she's not even the MVP on her team, and I think you made a really good point when we were talking about this in that it's about her play making and the way that she impacts the overall team.

That has to be taken into consideration when you're having this discussion.

So for me, those are the top four candidates, and if I'm narrowing it down to the top two, it's A'ja and Caitlin for me.

Wow.

Okay.

All right, so let's talk about Caitlin for a little bit because yeah, I think the Indiana Fever are such an interesting test case for the MVP award because again, when we get the ballot for MVP, you and I have voted on this award in the past, are you voting this year actually?

I don't know.

You guys.

Are we back, Annie?

Another breaking news.

Yeah, breaking news segment.

My vote has been reinstated.

Okay.

For everybody that thought my vote got taken away, it didn't get taken away.

Okay?

I just moved outlets.

All right.

Anyways- So we, we get- my vote is back the ballot, right?

And it says, you know, list your top five, you know, choices for MVP.

It doesn't say, like, what MVP should be.

It doesn't describe what value means.

It doesn't say who you should be selecting in these cases.

There is full field of open interpretation for what most valuable player means, and that creates a lot of, uh- Honestly, a lot of headache for me when I think about the Indiana Fever, because I don't really know who their most valuable player is.

I look at Aliyah Boston, and when she is off the court, their defense just craters, right?

Like, they don't have any big who I trust to really anchor that defense unless Aliyah Boston is playing the five.

If you take Kelsey Mitchell off the court, like, they don't really have any other shooter, spacer like her who can I mean, I feel like that's almost diminishing Kelsey Mitchell's overall talent.

Like, she is so effective as a scorer, that there's just no replacement for her, right?

And so you take her off the court, and all of a sudden, like, that, I think, is a very clear demonstration of her value.

And that's why you look at, you know, the on/off numbers for Kelsey and Aliyah, and they're very favorable for the two of them.

Like, you take them off the court, nothing happens.

You take Caitlin off the court, the Fever actually have a better, net rating when Caitlin's off the court.

But does that mean that she isn't valuable, or does that mean that they just have, like, an actual backup point guard in Ty Harris who gets to play next to Kelsey Mitchell and Aliyah Boston, whereas Caitlin's playing on these other lineups with, you know, their backup bigs?

I don't know.

Yeah.

it's hard to distinguish all of that.

What I do know is that Kelsey Mitchell is scoring incredibly efficiently, like, just one of the very best scorers that we've seen at the guard position in a very long time.

And her speed, her ability to move off the ball, it is so important for everything that Indiana does offensively.

Also, they've kind of, like, deployed her as one of their best perimeter defenders this year, something that I didn't really know that she had in her.

But she's been pretty damn good on that end of the floor, which hasn't always been the case throughout, you know, earlier parts of her career.

So kudos to Kelsey, and kudos to Steph White and that coaching staff for getting that out of her.

You look at Caitlin leading the league in assists, like, that's not nothing .

In addition to the 22 points that she's already scoring, like, that is so much offensive production that she is accounting for.

And the pace that Indiana plays with, like, the outlets, just running the ball down your throat over and over again, Caitlin is as much a part of that as Kelsey Mitchell is.

So I think they're all outstanding players.

I think Caitlin and Kelsey have had better seasons than Aliyah, just, like, in the totality, but it's so hard for me to distinguish value there because, Caitlin doesn't really work without Kelsey and Kelsey doesn't really work without Caitlin because, like, Caitlin needs somebody to be the outlet for all of those passes, and Kelsey needs somebody to deliver her the ball in all of those windows so Dare I, dare I say co-MVP?

So would that value- I mean, we did have co-Defensive Player of the Years last year, and I just wanna, make sure that everyone understands why that happened.

On the Defensive Player of the Year ballot, you can only submit one name.

So it is very possible to get a tie, if the same number of people vote for Defensive Player of the Year for two different people.

MVP, with the five-player ballot and, like, the weighted number of points, you know, if someone's first, they get five, second I, I think actually, I don't actually know how many points are assigned to each place.

But, like, the likelihood of a tie or co-MVPs is so much harder on MVP than it is for every other award when there's only one name on the ballot.

So if you're hoping for co-MVPs, Fever fans, k- pick something else to hope for.

Like, this is not a thing.

Yeah, sorry.

The, I was just making a joke, but I appreciate Sabrina for being the voice of reason as she oftentimes is, so kudos to her.

But when you talk about obviously Kelsey and Caitlin, they do make each other better.

They are, you know, the best back court duo in the WNBA.

I think that's safe to say.

But what does it for me when talking about these two and, and what has Caitlin in my mind eclipsing Kelsey right now for the MVP discussion, and let me just also say Asia and then everybody else.

Okay.

Although it is, it is tightening I think.

Okay.

I think the next few weeks is gonna be interesting.

But it comes down to how much the entire Fever offense relies on Caitlin Clark.

And I think Sue Bird did a really good job of summarizing the MVP race and how point guards are kind of viewed in it and, and why sometimes, like, they get left out in that, you know, it's their job to make sure everybody else eats first.

I'm, I'm paraphrasing, so that's maybe not exactly what she said.

But, you know, she was talking about the fact that that's, like, the role of the point guard.

So for Caitlin to be handling that, right, to be the facilitator she is, her assists are up to over nine assists per game since the All-Star break, and to be sto- scoring at the rate she is, she's up to 26 points per game, just over 26 points per game since the All-Star break, shooting 50% from the field, 44% from three.

To me, that encompasses what value is, right?

She's doing everything at such a high rate that it's hard, it's hard for me to just, yeah, dismiss all of that because Kelsey is scoring four more points per game than her averaging for the entire season.

So, or three more points.

So I don't know.

Again, it's a discourse, guys.

It's supposed to be fun.

Yeah .

We're having fun.

I mean, I'm having fun.

Yeah.

So Yeah, I mean, I am, I am curious that you have Caitlin as your second because, I think it's pretty clearly Olivia Miles.

And for me, the gap between Asia and Olivia is less than the gap between Olivia and third place.

And maybe this is too much of a reliance on just best player on best team, but I see so much of, you know, the, the fan conversation around the W being like, "Well, why is, you know, Caitlin or Kelsey dinged for playing with All-Star teammates when, like, Olivia had multiple All-Star teammates, and, like, she gets to play with Cheryl Reeve and Apisa Collier?"

I think it's so important to think about where the Minnesota Lynx were heading into this season, right?

There was a- Mm-hmm real sense of uncertainty of what this team was gonna look like after losing so many rotation players, right?

They lost Bridget Carleton, who'd been starting for them, who was like ace perimeter defender for them, great shooter.

They lost Elena Smith, who was a starter for them.

They lost Jessica Shepard.

They lost Natisha Hiedeman, who was their backup point guard.

They lost Dijonai Carrington, right?

Like, all of these players who factored in the rotation, and they brought in people who were coming off of down years.

You know, they bring in Nia Coffey coming off of a down season in Atlanta where she's basically been phased out of rotation.

Natasha Howard not having her best year in Indiana the year before.

She hasn't been an All-Star in a few years, you know, since she was in New York, back in 2021.

And then you have a rookie point guard coming in, right?

Olivia Miles.

And historically a rookie point guard has not always been equated to wins in the WNBA because it's a very hard position to learn.

And the way they started that season, again, without Napheesa Collier available for the first half of it, for her to lead the Lynx to the number one record in the league without Pheo.

And I think it's important to say that, like, she makes Natasha Howard better, right?

Like, Natasha Howard- Mm-hmm is a pick and roll maestro because of the passes that Olivia is, you know, sending to her.

Nia Coffey's job was so simplified in the pick and pops because of Olivia Miles at the point guard position.

Courtney Williams, her job is easier.

She loves to be a two guard.

She doesn't want to have to run point.

She did it out of necessity for the Lynx the last two seasons but could not be happier that somebody else is running the show.

And now Courtney has her most efficient shooting season of her career.

Caleb McBride, we've seen obviously the record that she just set making 10 threes.

Like, that's not all because of Olivia, but again, most efficient shooting season of her career.

I think you can credit the point guard for some of that, right?

So all of these players playing at their peaks next to Olivia Miles I think is a really good indicator to me of value.

And then the fact that obviously they're winning a ton of games.

And then we get to, like, Olivia kinda has the, the highlight reel that goes with winning an MVP, right?

Like, you think about all of the big shots that she hit in the wins over the Aces, in the wins over the Wings.

You know, in all of these wins over the top competition.

Against the Valkyries too, you know, even though she hurts her ankle in Wednesday's game against Golden State.

And, like, obviously this changes if Olivia can't play for the next few games because these margins are really thin here.

But- Are so tiny if the Aces finish in the four seed, right?

Like, that to me is a ding, right?

Like, it's harder for me to pick A'ja Wilson if she is not a top three team in the WNBA.

And again, I realize it's, like, part of the roster that you're building, but coming into this season nobody thought that Minnesota had a deeper roster than the Las Vegas Aces did, right?

Right.

And- So I think Olivia deserves a lot of credit for that.

And I honestly, I'm not like I'm not settled here, like, whether it's A'ja or Olivia at this point because there's just, I realize not a ton of games left, but there is a lot left to be figured out for me.

Yeah, I think it's so wild how tight this race feels right now when at the beginning of the season it was like, "Oh my God.

A- look at A'ja.

She's gonna win her, her fifth of the year."

And I think it was kind of similar last year when everyone was talking about Napheesa, and then it comes down to it and, and again, it, it's, it's such a tight race.

But what really stands out to me is how, to the point, to your point of A'ja, if the Aces are on, are finished fourth in the league, that's a ding against A'ja.

Well, A'ja's won an MVP award on a fourth place Aces team.

Finished fourth, yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And so right now we're seeing more parity amongst the stars that makes this conversation this interesting in my opinion.

We wrote about this again in the story, but we'll say it here.

Historically this award has gone to a player on a top three team in the league.

Mm-hmm.

The last- Usually like a top team.

Right.

Yeah.

The last nine awards have all gone to a player on the top ranked team outside of the last three, which was A'ja, Stewie, and then A'ja again.

And so I think that when you have three player, four players that are this close in the conversation, A'ja, it, it, that is a huge knock if the Aces finish fourth when you consider the depth of that roster compared to, to your point, what some perceived as the Lynx being less deep.

But because of Olivia's skill, they've, th- their depth has, has expanded.

The talent of, of every player on that roster has expanded.

What I'll also say is to, to add to the fact that yes, Olivia's availability now will become a factor for the remaining schedule.

Who plays who is, is gonna be a factor too.

And the Aces' remaining schedule is so soft compared to- Yeah, so soft.

Yeah.

The Fever and the Lynx.

Yeah.

They don't play a single playoff team the rest of the year.

And so A'ja's got a ball.

Okay?

And then you look at how the Lynx and the Fever finish their season.

Well, they play the last two games of the regular season against each other.

So this race, oh my God, let's bask in it.

It's so good.

So this is what the last day of the season is, deciding day for awards if not playoff spot.

Still deciding something, you know, but not necessarily- Yeah who's gonna be the eighth seed.

Yeah.

I do think it's so fun that we have guards in this conversation, you know?

Every year it's just like which power forward is the best in the WNBA?

And that's gonna be our MVP.

And not to say that, like, they weren't deserving of it.

It's just, it's an interesting evolution of the league that we're finally back to talking about perimeter players here when, like, I don't remember a guard really being a meaningful candidate for MVP since, like, Maya.

Like, it's, it's been a long time.

Yeah, I actually wonder if we should get into that, the fact, that Stewie has dipped from this conversation.

I mean, she came into the season and I think she was my, preseason projected MVP pick.

But- And, and she's played what's crazy, and so, so many people talk about this, but Stewie gets overlooked a lot.

But this season specifically what she has had to do to ensure that the Liberty stay in the playoff hunt is insanity.

She has literally been like, "Hey guys, get on my back."

Yeah.

"I got you.

We got this.

Let's go."

And I think because the Liberty have dealt with so much inconsistency, injury, et cetera, we haven't been able to see the best of Stewie this year.

Yeah, and I think that's where- I mean, I mean, wait.

That, that's not f- c- the correct way to say that Well, I don't think it's the best of Stewie 'Cause that- But like, but that's not why I, yeah, yeah I mean, she's playing incredibly, so I don't know if that was the best way to say it, but you guys will tell me in the comments.

I still think 2018 Stewie is the best version that I've ever seen, and it's not, trying to denigrate her that she hasn't been that good since just 'cause look at her stats from that year, her first MVP year with Seattle.

They're unreal, like out of this world stuff.

So the fact that she isn't at that level anymore is just a sign of how incredible she was then.

So like when I say we're not seeing peak Stewie, we're still seeing one of the greatest basketball players alive, just not the very best that she's ever been.

But it also like speaks to the whole valuable part of this conversation because if you ask me who I think the best player in the world is right now, I don't have to hesitate by saying A'ja Wilson, but I don't necessarily think that means that she's the MVP because that's a different consideration.

So that's why I think this award is so interesting.

That's why, you and I obviously have disagreements about how we would rank our ballot.

Like, I mean, for most of the season I was like, "Oh yeah, Paige is gonna be top five for sure."

Now I'm like, "Well, if Caitlin's there, if Kelsey's there, if Stewie's there, like do I have room for her in my top five?"

And I'm not sure.

So there's, I don't know, there's still a lot of fun to be had with this conversation.

Should we rank our top five right now?

Right now?

Yeah.

Should we?

I mean, I don't have to.

I mean, I don't have it ready.

Okay, we don't have to.

If I had to say top five right now, I mean, you're gonna ask, I can do it.

Uh- You know what?

Let, let's have some fun here.

I'm gonna put Olivia first, put A'ja second.

Okay.

I'll put, Caitlin third, Stewie fourth, and hard for me to have two Most Valuables on the same team, so yeah, let's put Paige five.

Okay.

All right.

Mine, just to have some fun- Yeah would be Caitlin.

Oh my God.

Then A'ja, then Olivia.

Okay.

Kelsey, and then Stewie.

All right.

Clip it, guys.

Well, clip it.

Clip it.

this is not to say that on September 27th that these are the same ballots.

Right.

All right.

Moving on from MVP, let's talk about, I don't know, Coach of the Year.

I think this is a slightly easier conversation than MVP, but also I have a couple names here that I'm still deciding between.

So Annie, who's your front-runner right now for Coach of the Year?

This, see, I don't think this is easier.

I actually think this- Okay is like just as hard.

Okay.

Yeah But it's between Natalie and Cheryl, and the reason I'm struggling to just give it to Natalie outright, which that sounds like we're doing her a favor.

She's obviously earned this award- Yeah, Defending Coach of the Year too.

Yeah and right, right.

Won it 100% But- of the years she's been a head coach.

Right.

But when you look at every, everything we've s- already said about Olivia can be applied to Cheryl.

Cheryl is the coach behind the player that's getting the best out of all of these players, and so that's, and they're the best team in the league.

She coached the entire, you know, first two months without not just any player, but an MVP contender.

Mm-hmm.

And didn't skip a beat.

That's really hard to, you know, justify somebody else taking it, but if you do, if there's anybody, it's Natalie.

So my vote today goes to Cheryl and, you know, Cheryl's 1A and Natalie's 1B or however you say it.

Yeah.

But yeah, my vote, my vote today would, would be going to Cheryl.

Yeah, so Natalie Nakase, obviously Golden State number two seed in the WNBA right now.

They have the best defense in the league.

They have the best offense since the All-Star Break, which, was a shocker to me.

Um- I mean, I, I watch Golden State play and like, they obviously do a lot of things well on the court.

I wouldn't say that them scoring the ball is the number one thing that I associate with them.

So for them to have that good of an offense, I think just like another feather in the cap for Natalie Nakase.

And I think it's just another one of those teams where, okay, no longer the best offense in the league since the All-Star break because, I think we all saw that game against the Lynx the other night.

But, just everyone seems to be maximizing their roles, right?

Like Veronica Burton has had such a good year, and like they just pull role players like out of the wash and like Tiffany Hayes is still able to do whatever she wants, and Kaila Charles is having a good season, and Kia Stokes is once again like a capable rotation player even though she could barely get on the floor for the Aces last year.

So I think just the ability to individually maximize everyone has been such a good, like proof of concept for what Natalie's able to do.

And it's not in exactly the same way that they did it last year, right?

Like I think it's an entirely different coaching job than what she did that won her the award in 2025.

Like Kia Stokes wasn't on the team, Gabby Williams wasn't on the team, like Janelle Salone's now coming off the bench, and she's probably the front runner for sixth player of the year, which is a really Like that takes a lot of, good culture, I think, to, you know, create a system where like this person's starting for a team that made the playoffs.

You had to like recruit her to come to the US for the first time from overseas.

Now you're like, "Well hey, we're gonna bring you off the bench, and you're probably gonna have to play center even though you're basically a wing," and she just does it and buys in.

And the fact that everybody buys in really makes me I think that Natalie Nakase, like, deserves a lot of consideration for this award.

Just, when everybody's doing their job, I think that's a reflection on the coach.

So how then do you make sense of their head-to-head match-ups against the Lynx when you're considering this award?

That's, that's a great question.

I think a lot of it is, Lynx talent over the Valkyries talent.

All due respect to the Golden State roster, like, they don't have Olivia Miles and Caitlin McBride and Pheasa Collier.

Like, I think just, there's more offensive talent in particular on the Minnesota Lynx than Golden State.

Head-to-head's tricky because I just don't think it's entirely based on, like, Natalie's making bad decisions at the end of games.

You know, Chechi Santillan makes the three at the end of their first game, and all of a sudden we're talking about a different head-to-head situation.

So that's tough for me.

Um- I think I ask that because i- reading Marx's story from- Mm-hmm yes, from the game the other day- Yeah there were so, so many quotes from Natalie where she references taking accountability for th- what she perceived as a lack of preparation or a lack of like m- you know, the locked-in mentality.

Mm-hmm.

And again, I, I don't think it's, to your point, a, an issue of late game moments or, you know, the Lynx hit big shots in that game.

But to me, the way she even evaluated herself was that she, yeah, she deserved some of that criticism.

And so that's why I was interested to hear what you had to say on that front because I do think that as much as it is about the X's and O's and being prepared on the court, that mental preparedness is part of coaching as well.

Yeah.

And honestly, I kind of I almost have more respect for Natalie Nakase and think that she's done a better job because she was able to say that.

Like, for you- Yeah to completely, I m- I wouldn't say completely, but she took so much of the accountability on herself instead of the players, when I kinda think, like, the players deserved more of the, the blame in that, particular situation- Yeah than Natalie did.

And you know, you look at other fan bases around the league, and they're always complaining about their coaches, like, putting the blame on the players and deflecting and not taking anything for themselves.

And like, part of being a coach is knowing how to read the room, right?

And like, knowing when you can accept something that you don't want your players to have to shoulder.

So that, I mean, I realize, like, it shouldn't be like a, the reason why I'm voting her because she, like, puts on a good press conference.

But like, her, just like taking that much accountability and like not making her players, like, shoulder all of that when they just went through this really hard loss, I think is part of like the cultural, emotional, like, EQ component that makes Natalie a good coach too.

Agreed.

I think that's a fair- Yeah assessment.

So when it comes to Cheryl Reeve, she's won the award four times already in her career.

I believe 2011, 2016, 2020, and 2024.

And I think what stands out to me when I look at those years that she won it is, once again, the fact that she has her team first in the league when maybe there was some consideration that she wouldn't.

I mean, outside of 2016.

That was a year that maybe- Obviously she was very good that year .

Right.

Like 2016, yep.

Like no one was- But you know, you mentioned those- I, I don't think there was much doubt you mentioned those four years.

They only won a title one of those four years.

Like coach of the year doesn't always translate to the team that wins the championship.

So I'm sure both of these women would be perfectly happy to, kick away that trophy if it means - Not, yeah.

Not win this one for, for the big one in the end, which is a very interesting thing and maybe s- something we gotta get into in a later topic.

But the times that the Lynx have been the best team in the league, and then what has happened, evaluating what's happened in the postseason for them because there are some interesting stories there.

The Lynx lore is interesting.

And Cheryl's a big part of that.

I do just wanna put Sydney Johnson in this conversation because I remain incredibly impressed by the developmental job that he has done in Washington.

Like Sonia Citron, Kiki Irafen already so much better than they were a year ago when they were rookie all-stars.

Shakira Austin having the best season of her career.

I think she's a very, deserving most improved player candidate.

And then so many rookies contributing to winning basketball right away, like Georgia Amoore being the starting point guard on a team that's gonna go to the playoffs.

Warren Betz is playing good minutes.

Cody McMann is playing good minutes.

Cass Prosper has played really good minutes.

To have a team that young, that cohesive on the defensive end, I think is a very impressive coaching job.

Like they know what they're doing, even if they, you know, we talked about this on the show yesterday with Nikaiz Dunkin, like they can't make shots all the time .

But they know what they're running.

And, I, you know, if this was like a three-person ballot, he would be third place easy peasy for me.

Maybe even considering like if Washington moves up a little bit higher in the standings, like maybe considering second place.

But, I just wanted to shout that out because I think like it's been such a good coaching job there.

Yeah.

And I think outside of the development, the other piece that has made him such a great coach is similar to Natalie in that the foundation he's laid is solid.

That locker room, that just relationship that is apparent between the staff and the players is really connected.

And I think when you have a roster that young, to establish that c- Connectivity is crucial in maximizing their talent or speeding up the timeline, as we've said in the past, because so much of it is about trust and sacrifice.

And when you're that, you're, when you're dealing with stars that young, if you can get them to buy into, again, the culture and what you're asking of them and make sacrifices for the betterment of the team versus themselves, you can make magic happen.

And I think the other, you know, interesting part of that too is when you look at Shakira Austin and the fact that the Tempo went after her, and, you know, the Mystics match, so ultimately she returns.

But that could have created some friction in the sense of did she wanna be back, et cetera.

And she is so bought in to, to what they're doing.

And again, I think that's a reflection of Sydney.

Yeah, totally.

I'm not sure anybody else has really worked their way into this conversation for me.

Like, I think Steph White has had probably the, the toughest job in the WNBA.

And just holding that locker room together is very impressive.

And she, yeah, maybe, maybe she's should be part of the conversation too, but, like, really I don't know that anyone's on the Natalie Nakase, Cheryl Reeve level and, I'm pretty sure it's gonna come down to those two for the final vote for me at least.

Yeah, I think depending on how the Fever finish the regular season, Steph could put herself in a better position to contend with those first two.

To your point, I mean, Nate Tibbetts, he went in on this topic, and I'll have more details on it later this week or weekend.

But he talked about Steph at length and said there's nobody in professional sports with a tougher job than her.

Yeah.

And I think that is, is, is very accurate.

So to be able to do what she's doing to coach at, at, as well as she is, while also navigating what is just largely not the job of any other coach in the league is, is re- is definitely worth commenting on, you know?

Yeah, definitely worth commenting on.

Yeah.

Okay, let's move on to our last award here for now, Defensive Player of the Year.

And this is, this is a really hard award for me just because I don't know what everyone is asked to do defensively on a team, right?

Like, I don't, I'm not in their film sessions.

I'm not in their locker rooms.

I don't know what the roles are assigned for everyone.

So it's hard to say, like, this person is doing their job better than other people's jobs.

And, like, defense is just I think qualitatively more difficult to assess than offense is.

Yeah.

So that's why I think this one's a little bit harder, but it's And again, it's tricky because I, I like to pick a defensive player of the year from a team that has had a really good defense during the year, right?

Like, I think, sort of like with most valuable you wanna pick somebody who's having an impact, like, on a, a team that's winning or a team that's performing well defensively.

But, like, I look at WNBA and, like, I don't think any defensive player is as singularly as impactful as A'ja Wilson, but the Aces have a sucky, sucky defense.

So how do I assess that altogether?

I mean, listen, I'm not gonna tell you how to vote, but- Yeah it is an individual award.

It is an individual award.

It is an individual award, yeah.

Right?

But- It's not most valuable defensive player.

Right.

So I think when it comes to, you know, to me there's only two people that are in this conversation at this point, and it's Gabby Williams and A'ja Wilson.

And what makes it hard is, again, the fact that Gabby is part of, is anchoring the best defense in the WNBA.

So how does that kind of balance itself out with what A'ja's doing?

Yeah.

It's true.

like, and then you know I talked about the, the highlight reel case for Olivia with MVP.

I think A'ja has a very similar highlight reel case for defensive player of the year.

Like, her blocks are just some of the most fun plays that the WNBA puts out on a night-to-night basis, and it is, like, the act of challenging A'ja Wilson at the rim, like, takes a lot of gusto because she is such an imposing presence, in the paint.

And, yeah, it's, it's hard for me to, like, look past the, the ninth ranked Las Vegas defense where, like, I don't really think she has a lot to do with that.

I think most of it is her guards just aren't very good defensively this year, and that's why she's had to do so much cleaning up on the back end.

But yeah, I think, I think Gabby Williams and A'ja Wilson are probably the top two candidates here.

I kept trying to figure out, like, if there was a Washington Mystic to put in this conversation too because defensively, like, they're not as good as Golden State, but they're still a very good defense.

And, I wasn't sure where to, like, assign the credit there.

Like, is it Shakira Austin because she is, you know, the, the anchor of that defense in the center position?

Is it Sonia Citron because she has to guard, like, the biggest stars really?

Like, you look at who spends the most minutes defending All-Stars or, like, defending star perimeter players, and that's Sonia Citron, and she does a phenomenal job with it.

So, yeah, I, I didn't really know how to assess those candidacies either because they don't have, like, the, the eye-popping, you know, highlights that, like, Gabby Williams does with her steals or A'ja does with her blocks.

But, like, they've also been such impactful performers on a really good defense.

Um- So yeah, suffice to say, I have, I have a lot of thinking still left to do on defensive player of the year.

But, if a Mystic were to enter, you know, the conversation, like, don't be surprised if you see my ballot in like three weeks and that happens.

Thank God the votes aren't due tomorrow.

Was there anybody else that you think we should be considering, or you're just stuck on the, the Gabby, Asia part of it?

I think those two, but when you talk about the Mystics, this is another kind of, I'm gonna reference the pros here, but, and, and go back to something Su's talked about before in that it's really, oftentimes guards get overlooked for defensive player of the year too.

And so when considering the Mystics, Shakira Austin is the player that I immediately turn to for this award.

So if you're opening it up to three, it, in my opinion, it would be Gabby, Asia, and Shakira on the ballot.

Totally fair.

Yeah, it's just sometimes the best defense is done, like, silently.

You know?

Like, you just don't let your player catch the ball or you don't let your player get a shot off, and like it doesn't look like much when you're watching.

So, again, this is like a, a hard award for me to evaluate in that sense.

But rest assured, we'll be putting lots of time into focusing on our ballots and making sure that we are, giving due credit to everybody in the league, at least the ones on winning teams 'cause I don't care about losing teams.

Yeah.

This is my first time doing a ballot for The Athletic.

So are- Okay.

Do we share ours publicly?

Like, will we write ours out?

What's the vibe?

I think we will.

Okay.

Yeah.

Cool.

So people will know- Yeah what, Annie Costabile has voted for.

What we- Yeah.

Well, and S- and Sabrina.

And me.

Well, we- And me, yeah.

Yeah.

You say that like, "Warning, everyone will know what..." Mark your Just, you know, mark your calendars.

It's gonna happen.

It's a big day of celebration when you get to find out what's on Sabrina and Annie's ballots.

Oh my God, I love it.

I do think *I've* had this conversation with a lot of sources, and I do think that transparency about the ballot or with ballots is important.

I mean, when we go back to there are some years where there have been awards that should have been unanimous and were not.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I think it's a question of, you know, who voted for who in these situations and, and why.

And so I think the transparency on the ballot is, is really important because if you're When there's this much money on the line now for these players, you should stand on who y- who you voted for and why, and you should explain why.

Yeah.

I, I think that's totally fair.

I also, counterpoint, kinda like that the lack of transparency discourages some groupthink.

You know?

'Cause like when everybody knows what you're doing, I think it's easier to like fall in line with what, you know, some, like, bigger voices are saying.

But yeah, that's a good- that's a good point.

So I kind of like that there's a little bit more variety in the WNBA voting space than there is, like, on the NBA side, for example.

Um- Okay and as much as, like, I am generally in favor of transparency, I don't necessarily hate it here because, I think it allows people to just not worry as much about like, "Oh my God, I'm gonna get crucified for this," but like if I generally, genuinely believe something, you know, I can still go for it.

But again, another, another useful conversation for us to have.

That's actually a really good point.

I've never thought of that.

Yeah.

I've never thought of it that way.

Yeah.

That's a good point.

Well, you will get transparency from us is really the point of this whole thing.

So that's coming.

But anyway, that's all we have in terms of our awards.

But again, a month left of the regular season, so plenty of time for things to change.

And coming up next, we will be telling you where to set our screens for this weekend.

All right, Annie, it's time to set our screens for this weekend.

I know you're gonna be at Barclays for New York versus Indiana this weekend.

And if you are at the Liberty game, come say hi to Annie.

Annie loves when people say hi to her.

But other than that, what are we watching?

There's a story there.

That's why she just said that, but we don't have to tell the story right now.

But outside of the Fever at the Liberty, I'm going with another Fever match-up, and that's the Fever at the Sky because that game- I see is always, always spicy.

So that's the one I will be locked in on.

Yeah.

I'm looking at Lynx, Mystics on Friday night.

First of all, just to see if, you know, Olivia Miles is gonna play because obviously that'll affect a lot of what we talked about earlier on this show.

But also the Mystics played the Lynx very well the last time they did.

They had a two game set.

They took one away from Minnesota.

So, you know, this is an opportunity for the Mystics to move up in the playoff standings, and just two things, two teams that I think match up really well against one another.

Love it.

All right.

That is all we have for today.

Thank you for tuning in, and we'll be back next Tuesday with more conversations from across the world of women's hoops.

Don't forget, if you haven't already, please sign up for The Athletic's No Off-Season newsletter that drops every Tuesday.

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On behalf of The Athletic and Annie Costabile, I'm Sabrina Merchant.

Thank you for listening, and we will see you next time.

No Off-Season is hosted by Zena Katta with Chantel Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, and Annie Costabile.

It's produced by Tanika Burrell.

Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott.

Monica Compton is our video editor.

Our theme music is by Marcus Foggo.

Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at The Athletic.