Manny and the Hall of Fame
May 10, 2009 by Michael Hoban · 12 Comments
Manny Ramirez has now joined those other superstars who have been tainted by the “steroids scandal.†And the obvious question in some peoples’ minds is what effect will this have on his chances for induction into the Hall of Fame.
Based on the only evidence available at this time, the answer is very simple: He has no chance for induction into Cooperstown by the BBWAA.
Recently, over at Baseball Fever/Hall of Fame Talk, during a discussion about Manny’s suspension, one fan posted the following:
“Barry Bonds
Mark McGwire
Alex Rodriguez
Rafael Palmeiro
Manny Ramirez
Gary Sheffield
Roger Clemens
Sammy Sosa (maybe?)
I can’t believe all of these guys might be kept out of the Hall of Fame… wow…â€
These are some of the greatest players of the past twenty years according to their numbers. According to the CAWS Career Gauge, Barry Bonds is the second greatest position player of the 20th century (behind only Babe Ruth). And Roger Clemens is the greatest right-handed pitcher of the modern era (1920-present).
So, yes, it is hard to believe that all of these players could be rejected by the writers for induction. But any other conclusion at this point in time would go against the little evidence that we have before us. The only logical conclusion at the moment is that none of these players will be elected by the BBWAA.
I am not arguing one way or the other as to what should happen. What I am saying is that this is the only conclusion that we can reach at this time.
What EVIDENCE am I talking about? Only one “steroids superstar†has become eligible for induction into the Hall so far and that is Mark McGwire. You remember him, don’t you? He was the most popular baseball player on the planet in 1998 and considered a shoo-in for the Hall – probably on the first ballot.
But then reality set in. Big Mac was forever tarnished by steroids allegations and by the time he became eligible for the Hall in 2007, his reputation was shot. In 2007, he received 24% of the vote for induction – nowhere near what his numbers merited.
In 2008, I waited with anticipation to see what would happen. He received the exact same number of votes (128) as in 2007. Things did not look good for Mac.
But the final verdict (I believe) was delivered in 2009. In his third year of eligibility, McGwire received 118 votes, 10 fewer than in 2008. That has sealed the deal – Big Mac will not be elected to the Hall of Fame.
Does this voting pattern have anything to do with Mark McGwire the man? I do not think so. I believe it has to do with McGwire the alleged “steroids user.†And this will be the same experience for any alleged “steroid user†when he comes onto the ballot.
Can anyone think of a reason why a voter who would not vote for Mark McGwire would vote for Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens or Manny Ramirez? Because their numbers were better? Do you really think that will make a difference? I do not.
So, I think we have to realistically say – Sorry, Manny. The final verdict has been rendered by the writers: If you are an alleged steroids user, you will not be elected to the Hall of Fame by the BBWAA.
It’s not that surprising. The powers-that-be in 1920, were willing to keep Shoeless Joe out of their future completely, and honestly, he was as big a star as any of these steroid clowns. Whether he was in the wrong or not, that’s how it is.
I just hope Pujols is clean & stays clean.
My personal opinion. Shoeless was innocent, and all “convicted” steroid users should be banned immediately. I don’t want them playing in the NL or AL.
Devon brings up an interesting point: I totally agree that I hope Pujols is clean…what is it about him? Steroids can have everyone else, just as long as Pujols didn’t do it. Thoughts?
I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m looking for someone to latch onto who’s clean and who has the opportunity to put up historic numbers. I honestly thought that would be Manny. Now I’m hoping it’s Pujols. Damn, I hope he’s clean.
Besides Pujols, here are some “1st ballot Hall of Famers” who I hope are clean: Greg Maddux, Craig Biggio, Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell, Ken Griffey Jr. and Mike Piazza.
Piazza has all but admitted that he used steroids and former teammates have wondered aloud why he escapes scrutiny while others get thrown under the bus. I also forgot about Junior as a guy to latch on to. If he’s clean (and there’s nothing to suggest he isn’t) he’ll go down as the greatest player of this generation without question.
I think it’s a shame the BBWAA, or anyone else for that matter, have decided they can make moral judgements against a man. It’s all to easy to get up on a soapbox, scream “Bloody Murder!”, and completely chide a man for his failure. But is it really reasonable to expect perfection from any human being, famous or not? NO! We all make mistakes at one point or another. Some mistakes are small, like a shortstop the ball into the stands in a game in July. Some are more glaring, such as the steriod cases or Buckner’s error. Would it be better if Manny or A-Rod or Piazza hadn’t made the choices they did? Of course. But who are we to pass judgement on someone’s character whose human flaws lead them to the wrong choice? Those who do often are smaller in character than those whom they criticize.
Wait a minute!! Lumping Piazza with Manny and ARod re the steroids question? NO WAY!! I am not aware of any SERIOUS allegations being published in this regard re Piazza.
From Jeff Pearlman’s book, “The Rocket That Fell To Earth:”
“As the hundreds of major league ballplayers who turned to performance-enhancing drugs throughout the 1990s did their absolute best to keep the media at arm’s length, Piazza took the opposite approach. According to several sources, when the subject of performance enhancing was broached with reporters he especially trusted, Piazza fessed up. ‘Sure, I use,’ he told one. ‘But in limited doses and not all that often.’ (Piazza has denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but there has always been speculation.)…Writers saw his bulging muscles, his acne-covered back. They certainly heard the under-the-breath comments from other major league players, some who considered Piazza’s success to be 100 percent chemically delivered. ‘He’s a guy who did it, and everybody knows it,’ says Reggie Jefferson, the longtime major league first baseman. ‘It’s amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched.’
‘There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids,’ says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. ‘Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. Power from nowhere, we called it.
“When asked, on a scale of 1 to 10, to grade the odds that Piazza had used performance enhancers, the player doesn’t pause.
‘A 12,’ he says. ‘Maybe even a 13.'”
Yeah, I took my cue from Mike Lynch in #5. Thanks for the book quote in #8.
Pearlman’s book is what I had in mind when I said there were no SERIOUS allegations regarding Piazza. Even Pearlman asserts that Piazza has denied all such use. Quoting hear-say is not serious journalism.
“Quoting hear-say is not serious journalism.”
Is that directed at me or Pearlman?
I wasn’t attempting to prove Piazza is a steroid user based on what Pearlman wrote. I was just pointing out that Piazza’s name has been linked to performance-enhancing drugs in the past and that that fact has been published recently. Had I known you were already aware of what Pearlman wrote, I wouldn’t have quoted it verbatim.
The comment was directed at Pearlman. This is similar to the new book, AROD. Virtually all hear-say with very little serious information.