'I never expected a mafia-NBA crossover': Shams Charania on NBA gambling issues & how he gets the inside scoop
NBA insider Shams Charania joins Rich Kleiman to talk NBA rumors, insider reporting and the art of breaking major news. Shams opens up about his early days chasing trade scoops and the lessons learned from working alongside Woj. The conversation tackles the break-neck pace of NBA news, the rise of young stars and a look at the NBA's response to its recent gambling controversies.
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Video Transcript
I feel like I'm the perfect servant to the audience because I was at one point that desperate fan.
This is my team.
This is what I'm focused on.
Everyone else, I have blinders on.
I don't care.
I have tunnel vision.
I remember the first time I broke a 10 day contract or minimum signing, my hands were just shaking as if I broke Luca down to being traded to the Lakers.
Chauncey Billups his involvement in all this obviously was the major, major surprise across the NBA.
Did you ever think you'd break a story and have a tweet that included La Cosa Nostra?
I never expected a mafia NBA crossover.
I'll tell you that.
But that's the job, right?
Every morning you just wake up and you never know what could cross your desk.
What's up everybody and welcome to another episode of Network.
Today we're gonna talk to the one and only Sean Sharana.
We're gonna talk some NBA, some things to look for at the deadline about expansion.
Here are his thoughts on the gambling drama and just overall how the start of the season's gone.
Always good to catch up with Sean's.
No one knows more than Shaw's Sharana.
So please, as always, download and subscribe to Network on Boardroom and Yahoo Sports, and you can listen wherever you listen to your podcast.
Thanks for joining my network.
Please welcome to the show, ESPN Zone.
The man behind all the breaking news in the NBA, someone I've gone to to break news, and I'm excited to catch up with him, so please welcome Shams Charania.
Shams, welcome to the network.
How are you, sir?
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great.
Obviously been a busy couple of weeks to start in the NBA I'm sure you've been bouncing around, but, uh, we're, we're in the, we're in the thick of it now.
We're in the swing of it.
Is there ever not a busy couple of weeks in your life?
I, I've asked you this in the past, like, when do you actually get a tiny bit of time to slow down?
So, I get asked this and my response is always like, anytime around August, September, but then again, that's all uh predicated on there not being potential big movement, right?
Like the summers that Kyrie, I remember the, the first big summer that I covered in the NBA was when Kyrie Irving requested a trade, uh out of um out of Cleveland.
And it was in early July, and then all of July, most of August was pretty much like Kyrie watch, right?
And then after that, it was like Kawhi Leonard requested a trade, and then his process goes on until late July, and then, you know, there's been guys over the years that have done, you know, similar, and so that whole summer, you're kind of tracking that.
But if there's not that, then usually August, September, you know, you look at March as another period cause right after the buyout deadline March 1, but You know, I, I'm always by my phone, so even when I'm away, like it's, it's like I withdrawal if I'm not, if I'm not on my phone.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Um, and it's wild because you're young, yet you've become such a fixture in the sports landscape, and I'm sure on the outside it may look like this journey happened fast and for you, I'm sure this journey was a grind.
Did you want to be a journalist?
Were you obsessed with the NBA?
Like what was some of the early Sham's aspiration that led you to where you are now?
It probably a lot like you, like I wanted to play in the NBA like that was my number one dream.
And once I realized after I got cut in high school, fresh uh sophomore year, I'm like, I, I, I have to do something around basketball around the NBA and So I remember my English teacher's sophomore year, a guy named Doctor Reid, he was just like, Sean, you love basketball.
Clearly, you're really good at writing, and that was the first person that really told me like, you're a really, really good writer.
And that was the one class, English class, the class that I would always be excited for.
I would always do well in, like everything else, math, science, oh my God, it was a bloodbath when it came to grades.
I was getting C's, D's, like sometimes I would fail these classes cause I just I'm someone and I, I, I know you're similar, Rich, like, I have to be very passionate about whatever I'm doing.
Like, uh, and if I'm not, I just struggle.
I just have this, this, this thing inside me that I have to get that motivation about whatever I'm doing.
And so, I started on that path.
He, he, my, my English teacher that year, Doctor, he inspired me sophomore year of high school to go on to the school newspaper, Nutture News.
And after that point, of course, when you're starting off, it's a lot of analysis stories, it's a lot of, you know, you're interviewing high school, uh, classmates of yours that are playing on the, on the teams, but I always loved the NBA and I, and for me it was like I want to find my way covering the NBA and initially it was a lot of analysis stories and it was like as if I was doing game recap stories, but At the same time, I was obsessed with, where's this guy being traded to?
Where's this player signing?
Is this coach gonna get fired?
You know, this team is struggling.
What's really going on with this team or if this team is doing really well, like, what are the reasons?
I was just always curious about that.
I'll be refreshing real GM and hoopshy about these rumors over and over again, and that led me to this path of like, hey, I wanna find out what's going on here.
I wanna know where this player is being traded.
That's why I think now when I look at it, I feel like I'm the perfect.
You know, servant to the audience because I was at one point that Desperate fan that like really wanted to know where my favorite player where my favorite team or what this player is doing or what that player's doing.
Like, the, the thirst for information from the fans, I think is, is great for the game of basketball and really across all professional sports is, it's, it obviously it allows people like myself, uh, you to have a quote unquote job, but if I wasn't doing this now, Rich, I would still be obsessed over this in, in a basement somewhere anyway.
So I feel like I'm living a dream.
Yeah.
Um, and you know, obviously you do still write, but what people know you for and, and what's at the core of, you know, the, the sam's legend is that nothing is true in the NBA unless you say it.
When I was growing up, um, it was a little different.
There was Pete Vesey who would write some of these stories and you really had to wait till the next day to even hear of a rumor and you normally didn't even get a rumor you just heard that a trade broke um and obviously Woj.
Was probably the first person in that role that became synonymous with it.
How do you start to develop that pipeline?
Because what I don't think people understand is like your relationships are so deep throughout the league at every level, like true relationships and you have to foster those to get the information and then to do it in a respectful way.
When did the shift start to happen in your career where you were like, I'm a writer, I'm gonna cover the NBA and now I'm gonna make it a real focus of mine to start to develop these relationships throughout the league in order to develop this pipeline of information.
I, I think from the very beginning, like I always felt like I couldn't take shortcuts in relationships.
So like when I'm starting off, obviously, you, you're not gonna have relationships with, you know, the quote unquote, you know, elite people in the industry potentially, right?
So you, you're kind of navigating and you, and you're figuring out, you know, the younger people in the industry.
Uh, I remember some of the first few events I went to.
The, you know, Portsmouth invitational Tournament, the the G-League Showcase, NBA Summer League.
I, I would always gravitate toward the younger executives, but then even more, more than that, like, I feel, I, I had to impress upon some of the, some of, some of the people that are older than me, obviously, that, that, hey, I'm mature, I'm professional.
And I think from Very beginning, when I was cold calling, cold texting executives, agents, players, etc.
I, I always had to, you know, feel like I was, I was thinking I was making it, right?
Like I always had to feel like I, I let people know, like I'm not here as a fan, like I'm here because I really want to have an imprint in this industry.
And that is the one thing that I learned early on is that when you're reaching out to people and you're talking to people on phone calls, no one's asking you how old you are, you know, that's not the first thing that comes out of people's mouths.
That's not the first thing people think about unless you're showing them that that you're immature.
I always tried to make sure people felt they could trust me, that I was mature, that I was professional.
Um, and I think from there, as time went on, when I first started in this, you know, sophomore junior in high school, that was 2010, 2011, now it's 2025, about to be 2026.
I've been really trying to find a path in this for the last 15 years, and people might think it happened overnight, but it really happened.
You know, early on when I was tracking down G-League signings, European deals, 10-day contracts.
I remember the first time I broke, uh, uh, a 10 day contract or minimum signing, like my hands were just shaking as if I broke Luca down to being traded to the Lakers.
Like I, I, I remember I was on a train going from class to class, uh, little of Chicago, and I like lost my, my, my headphones and I lost my phone somewhere at one point cause I was just so like.
I, I, I, I, I, I was just so like unbelieved.
uh I, I, I, I couldn't believe that I was in this position and um I was just in a state of shock and like so giddy.
Um, but I think as time went on, just showing people that they could trust me and showing people that, uh, you know, I'm someone that can be a vault for information and, um, and just have that relationship to where, um, You know, it's not that I just need, you know, I just, I just wanna talk to you.
I just need you when I need you.
Like it's, it's a two-way street, and, um, you know, I did learn a great lesson from, from, from Adrian when I worked with him was, you know, you never wanna be the person that is just communicating with, with someone when you need them or when it's July 1 a free agency.
It's something that.
You know, it's year round and, and they know that they can always rely on you at any point in the calendar.
Yeah, you are good at that because I think like earlier on in our relationship, I would always have my guard up, right?
So if you texted me, I assumed that you were looking for information and then as time went on, I realized like that was actually just who you were like you like to tap in with the people in the league and build real equity in those relationships.
Um, you mentioned the Kyrie, uh, trade request out of Cleveland.
That was the first moment that was like your.
I'm on the scene moment for you.
That, that was the first, like, yeah, I think that was the first on the scene cause I, I consider like the big national platform for me when I joined Yahoo Sports, uh, uh, with the vertical in 2015.
And I think my first summer free agency was big, 2016 free agency was really big, but then 2017, I think.
You know, that was the first year where I felt like I was really covering a, a megastar player who requested a trade and then went through an offseason of, of drama and trade requests.
Cause, you know, if we go back and remember, I can't remember.
Exactly the free agents of 2015, but I do remember in 2016, free agency was massive.
That was when the, the, the salary cap spiked and so you saw guys like Back Bambo, Nicholas Batum, Joakim Noah, uh, I remember, I, I believe Dwight Howard that offseason signed a big deal.
Um, and so that was fun because that was the first, like, you know, all these massive contracts are being signed, hundreds of millions of dollars.
Nick Batuma, I think that you got.
I want to say 5 years 126.
Let's see if my memory serves correct when we eventually look this up.
Um, but then the very next summer, 2017, is, is, yeah, like that summer was big and then, you know, you have Kawhi Leonard a couple of years later, um, you know, I, I'm trying to remember who was the other big ones.
Obvious PG was a big one that got traded in summers to come.
Um, but yeah, I mean those are always interesting when you know an entire offseason is predicated on a player and a potential big domino that's gonna shake up the league at a dead point in the calendar usually.
Yeah, Kevin has been at the center of many of these summers.
I, I, I was gonna say Kevin in 2022 was also a very, very big domino that I think started in June and then you guys ended it in August, obviously when you guys ended up staying and then obviously came back around and Yeah, in February.
In 2016, I don't remember, were you, did you reach out to me during the Hamptons free agency?
See that, see that was a big for that year.
Um, I'm sure I did, but I think that, yeah, I was still working with Adrian at that point.
And we were really good about, hey, like we're not gonna step on each other's toes.
Like if, if one of us is working on this, the other person, you know, it's like divide and conquer like you've got this, I got this, like let's get to it.
Let's dominate.
Let's do what it do, do what we do.
So I, I'm sure that's who you were hearing, yeah, pretty frequent.
I do.
We ended up giving it to Woj, but like that for me, um, you know, that summer was like I realized the magnitude.
You know, I feel like LeBron's decision was almost like in a vacuum its own moment but then Kevin's free agency that summer started this trend of like these stories were truly like world news, um, and obviously that shook the world up.
You talk about Wo a lot, um.
And obviously he's moved on to Saint Bonaventure and had like an illustrious career and you are without question, you know, the guy now.
Was any of that gossip around you and what real, um, obviously competing for news and competing for stories just like two players competing in the league that comes with its own sentiments, but I would imagine that it was really that only, right?
Yeah, I mean, it's someone like, you know, you, you work together for 2 years, 2+ years, and it's like that constant communication and then, you know, it's too, and then you end up being on two ends of the, you know, platform, uh, you end up at two different places.
There's that natural competitiveness, I think.
And, and I, I believe, you know, very, very competitive on both fronts.
And, you know, I think from that point, you know, there's obviously gonna be different dynamics at play and, um, you know, I think, I think.
You know, I was always of, of the mindset like I'm always very focused on who I'm, you know, the company that I'm with and who I'm working with.
So, if I'm at, you know, the vertical, like, I'm, I'm all in there.
It's like everyone else doesn't matter to me, like I'm all in on whatever I'm working.
Then when I moved to the athletic, it was the same type of vibe, same energy for me.
It's like, this is my team, this is what I'm focused on.
Everyone else, I have blinders on.
I don't care.
I have tunnel vision.
And so that's kind of how, you know, I think that's how a competition has to be.
That's how this industry, I think to an extent has to be.
But there's always, you know, the level of mutual respect and Um, you know, I, I think, you know, seeing him go to the Hall of Fame, uh, I posted about that, like that's, that's a pinnacle moment for him, um, and, you know, obviously, you know, made sure to, you know, let him know, uh, you know, obviously on social media, how, how proud I, I, I was for that.
Yeah.
So, um, when you get the scoop, what's the like, uh, checks and balances that have to go down before you hit the, you hit the socials.
I, I think the biggest thing is just making sure you're accurate and, and you're, you're, you've vetted it the information fully, um, but then from there, obviously, there's, there's a lot, um, there's a lot of, depending on the story, there's a lot of people sometimes you have to check in with or give heads ups to and things of that sort.
Um, but, you know, if you're hearing a trade is happening and you're getting it from one source, but you, you need to get all the details and, you know, you're like the Lukadachche trade is obviously one that I think a lot about in that process of, you know, hearing from one person, one bit of this, of the story, then you check in with someone else, and you get another bit and then by the time you're at source 4 or 5, you have the whole trade.
Um, and then, you know, but for me, depending on the story, sometimes giving people the proper heads up, uh, giving people the proper time, figuring out what the best time sometimes for, for an announcement is, I think all of that kind of comes into play at any given moment.
But for me, the only thing I'm, I'm worried about is like, is this accurate, um, and have I handled the story responsibly and as long as I've done both of those things, I like, I feel like I'm good.
Yeah, was the Luca the Luca trade the biggest?
You've ever broken, it has to be, right?
I, I think that's the one that everyone talks about.
I, I always be like whatever, like all I think about is what I'm working on like right now.
So right now I'm working on, you know, a handful of things and um there's always things that I'm monitoring and things I'm tracking and then making sure that I handle with care and responsibly and um you know, actually first and foremost, but I think that's the one that people obviously look at, the one that I think that.
You know, I do think about a lot because it meant a lot for what was going on at the time was like, like when Rudy Gobert tested positive for COVID.
Uh, I think that led to a lot just around the world really, because it came after Tom Hanks tested positive and that led to the league shutting down for a period of time.
Um, and that year was just so crazy in 2020, but, um, for me, the next one's always the big one.
Yeah, I feel you.
I feel you.
I mean, I think.
The Luca one, just took like the entire sports world by surprise, um, but for you I would imagine like the idea that there's a move like that every year is what you get excited about, right?
You break the story and it's like, what's next and.
Um, speaking of, and there's always one or two of those.
There's always, and there's always, you know, people, that's a great thing about not only the NBA but professional sports.
The NFL obviously is a big one in that as well, but especially in the NBA you've lived in the NBA ecosystem for a long time.
I have like, you never know on any given day what could happen with a team, a player, a locker room, a staff, um, the league at large, and I think that's the thing that excites me every morning getting up cause I still feel like I'm that fan that's like, You know, desperate, thirsty for that information and trying to figure out what's going on in the league.
Like, I, I do wake up just, just as, as curious as, as I, as I was growing up and, and as I think most fans are.
I, you know, it's changed though, it's I think in the past just because I know we've made a ton of announcements through the years you thought through how you were going to announce it and one of the options was to go to you or go to Woach.
Now it's not necessarily thought of in that way it's like let's decide on the move and then the conversation is like who's gonna call Shams and when do we want Shams to break it?
It truly is and I would imagine the rest of the competition.
Uh, is pretty infuriated by that.
But are there other guys you see out there like that you consider comp in some ways or other guys in the landscape that you see coming up that, because I would imagine young kids now are watching you, right?
And watch woes.
This is a real profession to think about now.
Yeah, no question.
I mean, when I was growing up, it was, it was, you know, seeing Adam Schefter and, and Adrian and I, you know, Ian Rapoports of the world.
Like those guys are obviously inspirational to me still, uh, but Lee Jenkins was another guy that I, that, and I've told him, you know, I, I was obsessed with the way he wrote, I was obsessed with the way he was able to get players to give him interviews.
He, to me, he's, he's a legend and a pioneer in this industry as well, but, um, I, I think.
For me, I've always just had such great ability to just have tunnel vision and just focus on me and myself and how can I improve?
How can I be the best teammate to the people around me at ESPN and before the athletic, but now that I'm at, at a new company, um, in my second season, I feel like every day last year, I felt like a rookie.
Now I feel like I've got my bearings.
Now I can like be a, a better teammate.
I can help people.
I can help people around me.
I think every day of how can I uplift my teammates?
How can I make them better, um, and I think You know, when, when I was at the athletic, I, I would always feel like, you know, how can I be the best Steve Nash possible?
Like, how can I uplift everyone around me, make people better around me, and I still think that way.
And when you think that way, I feel like it makes it harder for you to think about, you know, what else is going on at, at this place or like what, who, who's doing what?
Of course, you're always cognizant, but I'm always just like, how can I be the best version of myself and, and be the best teammate I can be.
Yeah, um, all right, let's talk NBA a little bit.
Let's talk NBA, um, we're a few weeks into the start of the season.
Some teams that are surprising you right now.
Like, did you envision Philly with Joel in and out of the lineup and PG out getting off to this kind of start?
I, I, I don't think many people envision like them, Chicago being, being undefeated so far when we're taping this as well, um, but no matter what, they've both gotten off to just great starts, but Um, I think Philly is in, is, is an interesting place because you have guys like Tyrese Maxy who's an all NBA type player, clearly.
You have BJ Edgecombe, who's looking like one of the front runners for Rookie of the Year this year.
Like the fact that Tyrese Max is already busted out as a star, and BJ Edgecombe looks like a young star.
I think that has allowed Philadelphia to just transition and move and allow those two guys to thrive, and then really everyone else just picks up as as it is, like, Um, the role players there, whether it's Andre Drummond, whether it's Kelly Oubre Junior, um, and then Joel and B, whatever you can give us, great.
Paul George, whenever he comes back playing sometime in November, whatever you can give us, great.
And it's just like, how do we let our horses lead the way?
And I think That's, that is a shift because last year when the year started, they were all in on Joe Wall and be all in on Paul George.
What can these two guys do?
And I think that ended up being a recipe for if they're not able to give us much, our season is essentially tanked and then they end up with BJ Edgecombe.
And I think seeing Tyrese Maxy's development over the years, it shows you that he's ready to be that guy and BJ Edgecombe is clearly looking like one of those guys as well.
And then Jared McCain's gonna be on his way back too.
So I think that's what I would pre I, I would, I would say, you know, Philadelphia is because they've kind of shifted, right?
Not that they're, they're not prioritizing Joe and being a Paul George.
Like those guys are making so much money, you have to see what they can give you and see what place they have on your team, but this is clearly to me moving toward like Tyrese Maxi, VJ Edgecombe, you guys are the guys that are gonna be on the floor and lead this engine.
Like what can you guys bring to us and what can you guys lead us to?
Yeah, in terms of like the Spurs who are off to obviously an incredible start, um, and Wemy's jump this year is obvious and if he stays healthy, it's, um, mind blowing what he can do on the court.
Do the Spurs, you think, try to speed up a bit of an opportunity?
I mean, when you have someone like Wemby, your window is as long as he plays, um, he's that good, but do you think that they could potentially if they stay on this pace around the deadline, maybe make a move to give themselves a real shot this year?
Right now, I, I think they're more internal.
Like, I think the, the big move they made last year was getting Darren Fox, and then I think from there, they really want to see what this group internally can do cause kind of like Oklahoma City the last few years, it's like, we don't really know what we have until we see what our players can do come playoff time.
And I think that's the next step for them is going into the playoffs with this group, seeing what can they do in the playoffs?
Can they get, get by in around?
Can they make a round competitive?
How far can you go?
And then from there, I think you judgments, you make the right tweaks that you need to make on your roster.
And so, I think a lot with the Spurs internal, man.
I, I, I really do, um, see what Deon Fox looks like with this group when they get back.
Um, but a lot of it is gonna be driven by Victor Omanyama, his health, how he's doing.
And I just, I, I think we have to look at the young stars in today's game, like how focused they are and how determined they look.
When you look at him, Shay goes, Alexander, Anthony Edwards, Lukaonic, um, You know, I'm probably missing a couple here, but like, these guys just have a drive, a focus, um, and they clearly want to be great and they wanna be, uh, the best versions of the Celtic like.
Anthony Edwards cut so much, you know, weight, like he's so trim entering this year, um, and now he's got a hamstring injury.
So it's like, that's clearly like he's, he's worked so hard that he pulls a muscle.
Um, but Wemy, you look at the work that he did, uh, in the offseason, he trained with KG.
You train with Hakeem Olajuwon, uh, you spend time with the monks, uh, uh, abroad.
So he's, he's done so much of everything.
Like I heard a funny story, you know, he spent a week in Houston working out with Hakeem Olajuwon, and every day they're having these on-court sessions and then afterward, they would play ping pong together.
And someone, someone around Victor Omiyama told me he literally lost every game against Hakeem Olajuwon in ping pong.
He did not win once.
Hakeem beat him every single time, but every day he was back at it, wanting to play Hakeem at ping pong, and he would just take L's.
And I'm like, that's the only L he's taking all all summer, all year, like, cause then he goes up, goes on the court and he's able to absorb all these lessons and just how dominant he looks, his competitive fire, I think it's great to see.
You think the league.
As a whole, is starting to value continuity right now and developing young guys.
I mean, that, that model in Oklahoma City worked, even Minnesota keeping the same kind of nucleus together.
I think there could be a real shift that's happened now that that multiple stars being the blueprint and then putting minimums around them and different role players may be of the last era.
We're, we're definitely seeing teams more prioritize depth and seeing, you know, how can we build a team built around, you know, athletic, multifaceted players, being able to impact the game on multiple levels, defensively, offensively, um, having length, having size, um, you've definitely seen that.
I think Indiana was a byproduct of that.
Oklahoma City obviously was a byproduct of that.
You gotta have the star power, of course, but you need to also have players.
You know, teams that can go 89, 10 deep, uh, in the playoffs, I think it is, has become increasingly important, and that means, yeah, I think having teams that are built around maybe 1 or 2 megastars and then a team full of just dogs and two-way players.
I, I think we have seen that shift.
And I do wonder how much of that shift also just by necessity of the second apron and the 1st apron and teams one is stay out of those aprons because you know if you're in the 2nd apron for more than a year or two.
You're basically in basketball hell.
Uh, you're, you're, you're just strong, you're, you're, you're hamstrung on what you could really accomplish, what you, what you could do in trades and signings and free agency and whatnot.
So, um, I think having, having all those facets are, are because of the 2nd April to an extent.
Yeah.
So I know it's early, but is there something that like fans should keep their eye on, um, leading into February into the trade deadline?
Well, I, I think it is early, but, you know, seeing some of these teams, you know, who becomes a seller, that's always something that you have to keep an eye on, you know, obviously, Washington.
It is the team that's playing for the future.
Brooklyn's a team that's playing for the future.
So are there players in both of those teams that end up being, you know, uh, high valued assets?
You saw in Brooklyn last year, D Finney Smith, Dennis Schroder were early season trade guys.
Who is that gonna be this summer, uh, or, or this, this season?
Like which player could emerge this season as, as an early trade candidate?
I think just long term.
You know, how does Milwaukee do as the course of the year?
How do they fare in the playoffs?
What's the Kumpo's future like?
Tree Young is another player, didn't sign an extension in the offseason.
He could be a free agent in the offseason, uh, this upcoming year.
So I think a lot of teams are monitoring, eyeing that situation in Atlanta.
And then LeBron James, we don't know how his, how his career is gonna end.
We don't know how this season's gonna end for him.
Um, where's, does he finish his career in LA?
Um, so I definitely have my eye on him, but You know, right now we're seeing parity take shape around the league.
Um, some teams that not many people expected, whether Chicago, Philly, San Antonio, get out, get out the gates, undefeated starts, um, but those are kind of the things that I'm monitoring.
What, how did Chicago get off to this start?
What do you think it is that they're playing well?
Well, they've also been able to get off of, you know, a couple of guys, veteran players that were on big contracts and DeMartin Rose and Zach Levine and basically shift.
Into the future of this team and just prioritize Josh Giddy, Matas Bouzelas, and then Vuusoic plays a much bigger role now with this team, uh, with the moves that they made.
So I think it's really leaning into your young guys and then Kobe White hasn't even played yet this season, and that was the leading score last year, especially after they made the trades.
And so, um, I think it's just leaning into a different group that you want to see what do we have here, uh, because, you know, the reality isn't DeMar Rose and Zach Leviy know this.
If they're on the team.
You're prioritizing these guys as focal points.
They're off the team.
You're kind of by necessity, Boozela, let's see what you can do.
Kobe White, uh, Josh Giddy, um, you're kind of prioritizing those guys and clearly, the chemistry that those guys are showing, Matis Boozela looks like an early season Most Improved Player of the year candidate.
Josh Giddy looks like a triple-double threat on every night.
Um, they're getting great performances out of Vusovich.
So I think it's just a group that's young, that's hungry, and Billy Donovan.
Uh, you know, typically he does well, uh, when he has a team that really placates to how he wants to, wants to coach.
It's, I forget Billy Donovan's a coach of Chicago sometimes.
Like he was such a big personality at University of Florida, you know, he obviously got one year with Kevin and Russ and then he stayed in Oklahoma City for a little bit, but he's kind of just like a journeyman coach in the NBA, not knocking him.
I mean, he's a great coach.
Um, but you know, I, I was somewhat surprised, um, not that I didn't think he deserved to stay, but I was surprised that he stayed and obviously they see like him as a big chip in building for the future, or they wouldn't have kept him with this young nucleus.
Yeah, the, the, the Bulls from ownership to front office, like they, they really love Billy Donovan there and what he brings on a daily basis.
It's funny when you talk to, uh, players and people that knew him and, and were coached by him at Florida, that they talk about this fiery coach and this coach that'll just lash out at you and, uh, you know, brings this East Coast flair and I'm sure he had a little bit of that in Oklahoma City as well, but And, and I do believe he still brings that in flashes, but now in Chicago, you just see someone that's just poised, focused, knows exactly what he wants to accomplish and like, I think the leadership that he's brought, I think the Bulls really value that.
I think the Bulls really value his ability to coach the younger players on that team.
And so, I think you're seeing a coach that's, that's able to, when he has a group that, that is committed to what he's trying to do.
Um, he's shown to have a lot of success and, you know, say what you want about that DeMar Rose and Zach Levine team.
When they, when Lonzo Ball was healthy there, they were the they were the number 3 seed that that season.
Uh, I believe it was 2020, 21.
Um, they were, they were, they were looking like a legitimate Eastern Conference threat and then Lonzo Ball goes down and really everything gets disrupted there.
Yeah.
You think Kyrie's back before All-Star, or is it definitely after All-Star?
From, from his, from, from everything that his goal has been, I think the Mavericks, their goal has been, it's looked like around January, um, at the earliest, um, that's kind of the window that, that people around the team are looking at.
But for him, You know, is he feeling 100%?
How is the team performing?
I think those are all things that are gonna go into it.
And ACL recovery, as much as we've been able to see him do, like we're seeing him go one on one against the coaches, we're seeing him do more and more.
He looks fluid when he's on the floor.
I think the next step for him is just doing live contact is, is my understanding and being able to be cleared, uh, fully for, for contact.
And don't know when that could be.
Um, but that's really what the Mavericks, doctors, Kyrie Irving's side, they're gonna have to figure out is that ramp up process is, is, when do you get to that?
Is that gonna be, you know, you know, second half of, uh, you know, or is that gonna be closer to the new year, is that gonna be after the new year?
Um, but clearly a lot with him is gonna be, you know, a lot with, with that team is gonna be dependent on, is he gonna be able to make it back on the court?
And is there any real, like realistic belief that Tatum could come back this year?
His goal is certainly playing this year.
I, I just know if and when he plays is gonna be predicated on a group of probably 15 to 20 people, doctors, uh, team officials.
So, as much as he will want to play and his goal, you know, and I think he's been very careful.
He said his goal is to try to play this year.
He's waking up every day trying to make sure he can play this year.
And I think mentally, emotionally, uh, physically pushing yourself to that, I think only helps in his rehab.
The actuality of playing this year, if he can get there medically, if he's 100%, he's 120%, uh, then he will, but that's gonna be predicated on probably a group of a dozen plus doctors and, and team officials and medical people that can confer with Jason Tatum and people around him.
Yeah, I understand it from like a motivating factor, right?
Like you need these goals when you're in this long grueling rehab, uh, from watching it firsthand though.
I just don't know if I see the purpose when someone has so much in front of them, but I understand it from like putting that in front of you and making that the goal every day.
So Rich, so like, obviously, Kevin got, uh, uh, what did he get like 16 months between games, I think something like that, 1516 months.
What went into that decision making for you guys to, you know, decide, I believe he had a choice to play in the bubble, didn't play in the bubble.
What was that kind of decision for you guys and just saying like, listen, we'll take the extra 4 or 5 months to be because when he came back, he was, you know, obviously Kevin Durant, if not better than the Kevin.
The bubble wasn't even realistic.
Um, I don't even think he was ready around the bubble time.
I mean, I think it's different from Jason is we pretty much set that goal early on.
So it was the same type of, um, timeline, but it was like, let's eye the start of next season where I'm back better than ever.
Let's eye this month where I'm back on the court.
Um, so it was never even, the goal was never even put in front of him in that way.
And then obviously when COVID hit.
You know, that was not the time under those circumstances, even if he was physically ready to come back in the bubble and play, um.
Have another question for you, it like.
The the gambling thing that has come up in the league, um, you know, it's interesting because like I've read a lot about it.
And the NBA gets a lot of for it, right?
And they talk about the idea that the NBA was pioneer in in letting gambling companies come on as sponsors and obviously gambling has become.
Regulated more and more states prop bets were introduced and obviously that became a problem, but I can't figure out where the NBA can manage that um I don't necessarily think this is a result of the NBA taking sponsorship from gambling companies it's not.
I mean I'm, I'm confident in saying that.
I think ultimately there's just a lot more variables in play now and this is, uh, you know, if this is true and this ends up being what's been reported, it's obviously a negative just for the sport whether there's anyone on the league that could have done anything different, um, but what is your feeling since this has gone down in terms of if there is even a route that the NBA could take differently?
The, the NBA is definitely looking hard at figuring out what the best policies are, what their best internal methods are, whether it's injury reporting, whether it's their communication with the sports books.
Right now, the way it's going, you know, the these prop bets and and different bets of something.
Gets flagged, the NBA and the sports books are alerted immediately and and the sports books flag it.
The NBA's, you know, in knowledge of that.
That's how John Day Porter was able to be, be found and, and that situation was able to be accounted for.
That's how Terry Rozier's situation first in March 2023 was even detected.
It was the sports books flagging it, alerting the NBA alerting whoever else needs to know authorities, and I, I think so, so the system is there for alerting.
Now it's just before it even gets to that, is there a way to mitigate it?
Is there a way to regulate it the the proper way?
So the NBA is having those conversations with the sports books.
Is there a way to, uh, figure out prop bets?
Is there a way to figure out, you know, a category of players that should not necessarily be Involved here, like two-way contracts.
Like Jontey Porter was really the player that tipped this all off that a lot of the people, the co-conspirators that were involved in the Jontay Porter case are involved with Damon Jones, Terry Rozierre, Chauncey Billups.
There's so much intertwined.
there.
And so, because they were able to detect that before, because they were able to find that, it's led them to now a bunch of other the, the FBI that is it's led the FBI to so much other stuff, including the illegal poker rigging matches that were mafia led.
And so overall, I, I think that the NBA has to continue to have those conversations.
One thing I think that internally is gonna be addressed and discussed is the injury reporting because You know, having examples of like even on Thursday night when Jason Kumpo is declared out for the game after being listed probable all day, but he's listed out 57 minutes before the game.
Is there a way to mitigate that?
Is there a way to solve that for, uh, the fans, the audience, whoever's betting out there?
So these are all things that the NBA sports books, they're all trying to figure out is, is how to regulate it the proper way.
Yeah, I mean, the other way of looking at It though is that, you know, the, the mechanisms are in place for the gambling companies with their responsible gaming operations to flag these things, right?
So the only thing that would have been worse is if these things weren't flagged and this continued to go on.
I do understand the idea of like should a two-way player be listed in a prop bet, right?
Is that they just set up for for failure, right?
And do they become a target to bad actors outside of the league, but for the most part I think.
What has to be understood is that this is not like an epidemic.
These are like a few select cases the world has changed we see examples of this in every walk of life the stakes are higher connectivity and the knowledge of what's going on has never been greater, and gambling has become a major part in a fabric of the game and that comes new things that you've got to deal with and and I and I would imagine that historically there's always been cases of this that went.
Kind of unnoticed, um, and the prop bets obviously bring a new layer into it because it's more about the player than the game.
But I do think that ultimately the idea that this came to the league's attention right is what people should also think about right that the mechanisms are in place to find out who's doing this and to me that's better than if this thing went unnoticed and this for whatever reason existed in the league.
So, um, it'd be interesting to see what they do.
Obviously they'll have to do something because publicly I don't think the the fans will allow there to be no action, but I also think a lot.
Needs to be kind of told about what was found the last few weeks and it's, it's really like I would imagine reverberate around the league about Chauncey just because his reputation was so incredible.
Yeah, I mean, Chauncey Billups is involved in all this obviously was the major, major surprise across the NBA like, you know, one thing to, to talk about sports betting and insider information, it's a whole other thing.
You know, it's two separate cases here.
That is one thing, the FBI lumped them both together.
There were a couple cross, uh, you know, cross entities, people that were involved in boats who were able to kind of lump it together, but Chauncey Boltz was, was allegedly involved in rigging illegal poker games and being essentially a face card is what the government calls it to lure fish, as the government calls it, to get money, and It being led by the mafia, um, I mean, it's straight out of a movie, right?
And so it's something that no one knew about, something that obviously, not many people in the NBA could even, even fathom a sitting NBA head coach.
The fact that a sitting NBA head coach was arrested hours after a game, a Hall of Fame player, no less.
It's, it's jarring.
It was stunning for everyone in the NBA and it's something that the NBA now has to deal with the fallout and You know, but that is the NBA community.
Now, what the NBA can actually deal with and what they are dealing with is this insider information trading of it all.
But it, another conversation I've heard from teams and people on the league is like, this is stuff that, you know, for players telling people around him and close to him that, hey, I'm, I'm really not feeling well.
I might sit this game.
You're not expecting the people that you're telling to go out and bet.
You know, on, on that, and that's something that like how do you police that?
How do you legislate that?
Did you ever think you'd break a story and have a tweet that included La Cosa Nostra?
Man.
I, I, I, I certainly did never, I never expected a, a, a mafia NBA crossover.
I'll tell you that, never expected that.
Uh, but that's the job, right?
Every morning you just wake up and you never know what could cross your desk before you get out of here, any info or any thoughts around expansion?
So, I, NBA Europe is, as far as I understand, much closer along and, and that's really in process here over the next 2-3 years, getting that finalized.
Um, my feel is that NBA expansion probably trickles closer to after that, um, than, than it is injunction or before that.
So I, I don't, I don't have a time period.
If I say 5 to 8 years, I don't want to be aggregated at that.
But I think once it starts getting like, Rich, you know, like once it starts trickling into like ownership conversations and the owners are meeting about it and GMs are starting to meet about it, then to me it becomes like, OK, we might be 23 years away and we're not at that point.
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for NBA Europe.
I think as a business model and a concept, it's very strong.
Very strong.
Yeah, I mean, I think that figuring out who's gonna be the owners is definitely like something that I'm, you know, keen on and, and really trying to get on top of, because I, I think you could see some former players involved.
Obviously a lot of people still associated with the NBA still involved, um, and, and I think just that project in general.
You know, being able to provide a new, uh, lever for the league, I think, you know, could be very interesting to monitor.
Yeah, without question.
I mean, that's, that's gonna be some good news.
You dropping like Real Madrid got a team, Barcelona got a team.
It's a whole new pool of information for you to break, bro.
Let's get it.
Um, Shams, I appreciate it, bro.
It's always good catching up with you, man.
Um.
Good luck the rest of the season.
I hope we have nothing to report to you again the rest of Kevin's career.
I hope we never speak about anything ever again.
Hopefully only positive calls, uh, you know, but listen, congrats to you as well on the Yahoo deal and, and, uh, the show on Yahoo and, uh, my stomping grounds, and, uh, I'm sure we'll be, I'm sure we'll be talking soon one way or the other over some reason.
Yes, we will appreciate you, bro.
I'll catch up with you soon.
Thank you.
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Network.
Felt like a real sports show today talking NBA with Seans, man.
I felt like I was a real media guy.
I appreciate you guys always tuning in.
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