How to ask for a $10M donation (and get it) with Arizona State HC Kenny Dillingham

Mon, Jul 13, 2026

During the 12-team College Football Playoff era, there have been two Big 12 teams make the College Football Playoff: Arizona State and Texas Tech. As Kenny Dillingham looks to bring Arizona State back to the CFP, the Sun Devils received a $10M gift after Dillingham publicly sent an all call for someone to step up. Watch here as Arizona State head coach Kenny Dillingham joins the show and explains to the fellas how to successfully ask for and receive a $10M donation.0:00 On Today's Episode1:15 Presenting Sponsor3:04 Intro: Previewing Kenny Dillingham8:17 Kenny Dillingham joins the show10:55 Traveling to London13:17 Staying at Arizona State20:00 Supporting Players25:00 Paying Players and Evaluation27:46 One thing Dillingham would change30:18 Closing out with Kenny Dillingham30:51 Recapping Kenny Dillingham37:58 Latest on Warde Manuel at Michigan51:33 David Gabriel Georges: Ohio State or Tennessee?1:10:17 Thanks for watching!After Coach Dillingham joins the show, Andy & Ari head over to Ann Arbor, Michigan, where Warde Manuel has 'no plans' to not be the Wolverines' athletic director in the near future. The fellas break down the happenings out of Ann Arbor here.In what is undoubtedly the most notable recruit in this cycle, RB David Gabriel Georges has narrowed it down to two schools: Ohio State or Tennessee. Watch here as Andy & Ari evaluate the latest on the number one player out of the state of Tennessee.Our show is also presented by BetMGM!If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here's how it works: 1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB.2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game.3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sureyou use bonus code CFB when you sign up!Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and HotelJoin On3 today! https://www.on3.com/joinHosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River BaileyInterested in partnering with the show? Email advertise@on3.com

Video Transcript

On today's annual, on three, how to ask for a $10 million donation and get it with Arizona state coach Kenny Dillingham.

He explains why he stated Arizona state and also how he managed to activate the valley in terms of fundraising because he said, I need somebody to write a big check and guess what somebody did.

And are you and I, we want to know how that works.

We want to know how to do that.

So he's going to tell us how, plus, is this it for Ward Manual, the AD at Michigan?

Lots of smoke about a potential change at Athletic Director for Michigan this week.

Also, great story on three about David Gabriel, George's, who is considered the next can't miss running back.

He's a member of the class of 2027.

He is from Montreis Hall.

He's a native French speaker.

He came to America and he is just mowing people over as a running back.

He's got it down to Tennessee and Ohio State.

Who's it going to be for the next possibly can't miss running back?

We'll talk about it all today on Annie R.N.

3 presented by Bed MGM.

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Welcome to Annie and Ari on 3 presented by Bed MGM and Ari, we get to talk to one of our favorite coaches today and ask a question that we've been wondering about for several months.

How do you just ask somebody for a $10 million check and they actually write it?

You know what the actual key is because I have been thinking about this a lot, Andy.

I think if you need $10 million but that $10 million would then allow them to get something that they want, they're more likely to do it and that's why our podcast is the perfect place to sponsor because we have something that you want, you worship, personality, charisma.

$10 million which is something that we want.

We want 10 million if so facto we have errors on the state deal but I like to think that where charismatic people, I don't know if it's charismatic, it's going to be killing him.

But the good thing about this all happening for him or the reason why it happened and I asked him this in this interview that we're going to show is that there was a little bit of showing results, not a little bit, a lot of bit of showing results before the money came through.

You know, if they had not made the playoff already, won the big 12 already and pushed Texas all the way to the final drive and overtime, I'm not sure if this money comes through.

I think that the key to this question of $10 million and asking for the money and then getting it rests in the idea that whoever's writing that check feels more confident that he'll actually be able to deliver something with that money.

It's a lot harder to write a check blindly, I think, and a lot of people in college football do, Andy.

I think we might be having a topic of conversation later on in the show that has something to do with that.

But he's already shown what we say proof of concept but I mean like he did it without --He's won the league.

Now, they're the only team that beat Texas Tech last year.

Now, Sam Levin doesn't get hurt.

Who knows what the end of last season looks like.

So yeah, I'd say they feel pretty confident.

Obviously, there were people sniffing around Kenny Dillingham.

Their jobs open where his name popped up.

We think Florida State, if it opens, that's another place that might try to come after him.

And so yeah, Arizona State and the people who love Arizona State are trying to make sure that Kenny Dillingham stays home and it's obviously important to him to stay home.

But this is an interesting case study because this is a guy who in this era of college football, it probably will be hard to keep him in the big 12.

You got to make sure he still feels like you're trying to go up and up and up and up.

That's got to be the key.

Absolutely.

And the other thing too is that like Arizona State was hit with a bunch of injuries last year that would have maybe if they didn't happen, put them back in a position to compete for the big 12 championship again.

You can't say that they wouldn't have been able to compete with Texas Tech because they literally beat them.

So like it, I think that there was some meat left on the bone last year too.

So I think Kenny Dillingham is obviously a very gifted coach.

And the thing that you come to respect about him too is that he does seem to have a legitimate passion.

It doesn't seem he does have a legitimate passion for making errors on a state grade.

It's not about being a great coach.

I think that he is passionate about getting errors on a state to a place where it is competing for not just college football playoff spots, but national championships in the future.

I don't know if he'll be able to do that.

But if you're talking about early returns, Andy, I mean, these are about as good of early returns you could possibly get from a young coach like this.

Yeah, absolutely fascinating schedule for Arizona State too.

They play at Texas A&M, which is a huge non-conferred test.

Texas A&M coming off the playoff birth, expected to be one of the best teams in the SEC.

Then they go to Wimbley Stadium to open Big 12 play against Kansas.

That's going to be odd.

They are at Texas Tech.

They are at BYU and at Arizona for the Territorial Cup.

They have one of the toughest schedules in the Big 12.

Yeah.

And Kenny was talking a lot last week at Big 12 Media Day about trying to have an experience with Kansas and Wimbley's in London, right?

It is.

It's going out to a soccer stadium, but also allowing his team to sightseeing and really experience the trip.

I think that's really cool, but adding a, because Kansas might be very good too.

Like I think that it's so funny.

It's like the coaches, the thing we was talking about.

Andy Cotel, Nikki Back from Lance Lypole, the Kansas, like don't sleep on the J-Hawks.

Lance Lypole didn't forget how to coach last year.

You know, like they're still good, good coaches on that staff and they're, you know, got the band back together there, but going overseas is going to be difficult.

But yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, when you look at the Big 12 schedules, Andy, all schedules look difficult because you don't necessarily know who's going to be good, but Arizona State didn't really catch people.

When you have the, the teams that we all expect to be good, that's the toughest draw.

Yes.

But listen, you're not going to get any excuses from Kenny Dillingham.

That's just not how he operates.

So let's hear from Kenny Dillingham and let's ask him the question, how do we get somebody to write us a $10 million check?

He's going to tell us right now.

He's going to be now by Arizona State Coach Kenny Dillingham in the finest suit that any coach has worn to Big 12 many days.

Maybe ever.

I don't know about that.

This is unbelievable.

What Eric Morris said, you know, my wife picks out the colors.

I don't do this.

Are you, are you actually picking it out yourself?

Absolutely not.

My wife picks it out with, you know, we have a guy who does a lot of stuff for our program, Doug Carlton.

He does suits.

So he did all of our player suits.

What?

For them and their awesome suits and him and my wife did this and, you know, I put it on to distract people from my face and it's working so good.

Nobody's coming on my face.

Well, the thing that they can't see Kenny is the confidence to rock them actually pants, too, because so many people come in with different type of things.

Yeah, this is not a sport coat.

This is a suit, ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a, yep.

Looks great.

Oh, appreciate it.

I suit guys.

Gotta be a recruiting edge.

That feels like an advantage right there.

Yeah, it is.

It's phenomenal.

And I mean, he, uh, he, NILs with our guys to give them suits and in return, they wear them in certain locations and advertise form and he's a phenomenal asset.

And part of growing up is like realizing how expensive things are that you would never know when you're a kid, like blinds and fences and things.

Suits.

Suits is up there.

Yeah.

Like an expensive suit is a, I mean, a nice suit.

It's a very expensive undertaking.

So I, I didn't even want to ask, but it looks great.

And, uh, you know, you have a really nice face too.

Don't ever, don't ever, is that a weird thing to say?

Kind of.

That's all right.

He said he wanted to own a farm with, with another coach.

So that's good.

Well, I'll, I'll, I'll own the farm too.

Can I get involved in this farm?

Yeah, he was like joking because like I was like saying, I want to invest in it.

I don't want to work in it.

Like you misunderstood.

Oh, sorry, I forgot.

You, you pay people to work.

You don't, you don't work.

No, no, I, I got you.

No.

All right.

So can you play a game in England and, and Arizona State has a campus now in London.

Like, are we expecting a full turnout from the Arizona State London campus at Wimbledon?

I, I hope so.

I mean, I'm on the full campaign to fill that place out with Arizona State fans and make them cheer like it's a football match.

I think it'd be phenomenal.

I, I've heard about your travel plans too.

So, college station, you, you guys play at Texas A&M.

I'm glad you're not ducking the good, the good out of conference games.

Appreciate that.

Yeah.

I'm off on a plane, off to Mary old, jolly old, and, and how do you, because you said, I, I talked to somebody on, on your staff and they said, well, can you want to make sure the players get an experience?

It's not just a business trip and, you know, how do you do that in a balance with, with a league game against Kansas?

Yeah.

I mean, I think college football, my job is to balance, you know, the football and, you know, college.

Still college kids.

Yeah.

So, you can fly across the pond with 105 of their current best friends.

Like they need to go have fun.

Yeah.

They need to go over and they need to do something, they need to go experience it.

So, us getting there early is something that I want them to experience that Sunday when we land and Monday.

I want them to go experience London and, and make this something that they're going to remember for the rest of their lives.

And then they can go focus on football when we hit, you know, Monday, late Monday night, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you know, go to another event.

But I really want this to be something they remember for their, for the rest of their lives because it's not an advantage to go to one and to play a game.

Right.

So, if we don't make this a memory, then what are we doing?

Yeah.

Right.

We're hustling backwards.

Yeah.

And I thought it was true what you said up at the podium about how most people don't even get to leave the country ever, you know, and to be able to go over there and do that be pretty neat.

Yeah.

It's going to be awesome.

I mean, it's going to be a great experience.

I mean, it's talk about a logistics nightmare and it moves our by-week up to, you know, after week three.

So, we have nine straight games because of that.

So, there's a lot of things that absolutely-- But you look at Passport guy.

Like, how do you do?

You do.

You do, and Passports work the way.

That's what the first thing I thought of.

Lexi, who runs our organization, by the way, Lexi, Lexi *** for runs our team.

And she handled all the passports with our Passport team on campus.

You know, we're an international school.

I mean, our Passport team on campus has come by with Lexi.

They made it all happen.

Can you-- I've been dying to ask you this for months now.

I know where you're going with this one.

Yeah.

Fire it up.

Your name was floating around for the Michigan job for a while.

And I remember that big speech you gave-- I think you're at the practice facility about how you needed somebody to step up.

Oh gosh.

And I was like, I was in my living room in Dallas and I was actually moved by it because I thought that like it was a cool thing to do.

As an Arizona grad, he was not moved enough to write a check-out.

Yeah.

But I think that would be a conflict of interest.

But the thing I think is interesting is that you affirmed your loyalty to the place that you're at before the check came through, which I thought was really endearing and would make me want a right one if I were the supporter of the program.

But then-- You're bearing the lead.

It seems like you got it.

Yeah.

And not like when you get it, when you say, all we need is one person to make a difference, you get it.

Like, is there a responsibility now to deliver off of that gift?

Well, I think that the race that we're running, we started a little bit behind and we're catching up.

But everybody else is still running.

So Brian Sweety, unbelievable gift.

I mean, we would give $10 million of your own money to a football program then.

And you endow the head football coach position.

That's pretty powerful.

So he's a dear friend of mine too.

So that's even better is it's somebody that I appreciate and that I ask advice from.

He's been very successful running companies.

So I mean, it's pretty cool that people, I would say, answered the bell.

But people are still answering the bell.

I think you have two choices in today's landscape.

Some jobs, you just, you know, you wake up and you're going to have advantages.

Other jobs, you got to work for it.

You got to ask for it.

You got to like, you got to be out there.

And if you're not, you can either be booed by what you say to the media or be booed when you lose games.

Like let me be booed by people not liking what I say.

I'm perfectly fine with that.

What was the negative feedback from it from anyone?

I mean, I don't know, probably.

Yeah.

I mean, I just, here's what I want to know.

I want to know how to do it.

I want you to teach me how to look into that camera and say, write me a check for $10 million.

So let's say you needed an advertisement for your site or something.

Exactly.

You just say, listen, we can help you brand yourself.

We're one of the best platforms on on three.

One of the best people for college football.

We can help you put your soda can, your chip bag right here every single day.

That could be you.

I also think you've hired his director of sales at on three.

Congratulations.

You've ever made the college football play?

No, I've not made the college football play.

That is an issue.

Do you think that that's possible without that run?

No.

No, I mean, our state is all about winning.

People, we live in a lifestyle city.

I mean, people move to Phoenix when they become successful because that's where they want to live.

Like, that is like the dream is to get back to Phoenix is to say, one day I want to move back there.

Some people near and dear to me to my right may have that dream one day.

And it's one of those things that if we can create an atmosphere of an unbelievable college experience and you get to live in Phoenix, holy cow.

Now you got something that's scary and we're building that atmosphere.

We've sold out games all last year.

We sold out the last two games of 24.

We're basically sold out for this season already.

We're building in our stadium premium seats to sell out.

So we're building a college atmosphere in one of the best cities in the country to live in.

And building a pretty good team.

I mean, look at you add Omar and Miller.

You add Carter Bowley who for those who didn't watch a lot of Kentucky late last season, he was playing really well as things went down to the wire.

So, you know, it feels like it's not just the people in the valley that are noticing.

It feels like others are noticing too and you have the resources to compete for it now.

Yeah, no question.

I mean, our resources are getting better.

We're not the top.

We're getting better, right?

No where near where we can be and where we can get to.

And I'm aware of that.

But I think we do have the team.

I love our team.

I love the guys we've added.

I love the mindset of the guys.

I love how they come together.

And I think that's what fires me up about this year.

It's like, man, we get to go come together as a team and we have some town on this team.

We've got a good amount of guys that I think can play on Sundays.

Let's go put it all together and see what we can do.

So the thing that sticks out to me about some of the things that you built were some of the evaluation jobs that you guys did.

We talked about Cam's Gattaboo when you walked in here.

Obviously, you were one of the earlier identifiers of Sam Levit and that paid dividends.

What is evaluation like in today's day and age?

Obviously, things are more sped up.

Things are more expensive.

But is evaluation the same as a few years ago or did things change?

Evaluations of premium now.

See, before you could just say, OK, who are the highest ranked guys and the odds are that if you just signed the highest ranked guys over and over again, that you're going to hit enough.

You may miss, but who cares?

You're hit rate on those guys are going to be at such a high rate.

But now with the balancing of the finances behind it and the balancing of roster, you can't, unless you have unlimited resources, you can't miss anymore like you could.

So your evaluations are more of a premium than they've ever been in the history of college.

Five years ago, the team that won the national championship could have a 30% hit rate and still win the title.

100%.

Now you cannot.

Well, I had an A.D. say it really well to me today.

So it's valuation, not evaluation.

You have to be able to understand what somebody's worth because there may not be a salary cap, but you have a finite amount of money.

Yeah.

And those words go together because your valuation of somebody is based off of your evaluation of it.

So if you're not, if your program doesn't evaluate and then you may put the wrong value on somebody.

And everybody's value is different because everybody has a different number that they're working from, which is the craziest part about this whole landscape.

Yeah.

And everybody's got a weird definition of how they view what someone's worth.

If the number 500 player in the country is worth X, shouldn't the number 900 player be worth 0.8 X, but there's no scale?

Yeah.

It's just, you know, whatever you think, you got to be convicted on what you're trying to build.

You know, I know what we want to do as a football program.

We know what we want to do as a team.

And we're just going to go target guys who fit our program.

I'm not going to get caught up in all the other stuff, you know.

Sometimes you want to get caught up in winning certain types of the year.

And, you know, I don't want to be the face of our program.

I want our players to be the face of our program.

Like, that's, you don't see me much post about myself.

You don't see me do much of that stuff.

I truly want our players to be the face of our program.

Yeah, you are one of the ones that it seems like I remember one time.

There was a guy who left your program through the transfer portal.

I can't remember who it was.

But you quote tweeted his transfer announcement and said, love this guy.

He's going to help your team.

Like, how important is it to put, you know, put those guys out there to support whoever it is, guys who were either leaving your team or the guys who are on your team now?

Yeah, why would I not want somebody that I've been around recruited in Belter-Racel relationship with to be successful?

Like, that's just silly to me why you wouldn't want these guys to be successful.

It's like, you know, in our industry, it's like when coaches leave a place and take another job, then they're like, rude against the place they just left.

Like, secretly, they won't say it publicly, but they do.

Or they call people like, how's it going?

Is it just chaos without me?

Right?

Like, everybody wants to believe the world's going to fall apart without it.

The reality is like, I just want people to be happy and be successful.

Like, we're going to have 105 guys on our football team.

I can guarantee that.

I can't guarantee much.

I can guarantee we have a team.

And I'm going to pour everything I have into those teams.

And when guys want to leave our program, I want to see them succeed.

I don't want them to fail.

I want them to succeed so I can say, man, maybe something that they learned in our program helped them succeed in life.

Like, that's what I'm rooting for.

Which is an intern also beneficial to you in future sales pitches.

Yeah, I mean, I guess, or it's bad.

Like, that person left and had success.

Yeah.

Was it really you?

Like, so I think you can go depends on everything can be spun different ways.

I don't really worry about that.

I just, I truly like to see people succeed.

Like, I literally enjoy watching people achieve their goals and succeed.

So I just want to see people succeed.

That's how I enjoy that.

That makes me happy.

Kenny, last time you were here a year ago, you were coming off the CFP.

And you said the most important thing to you.

And I thought it was a good quote at the podium was that you didn't want to be a one off.

A team that made it once or had an exciting season and then fell back into the pack.

What do you think the biggest challenges are as the head coach of ASU of making sure that doesn't happen?

Yeah, I would say the race that it's becoming, it's getting a bigger gap in terms of like the financial race of this thing is getting steeper and steeper and steeper.

So I think you got to be willing to continue to get involved and find creative ways to stay involved to be competitive, you know, just like, you know, Major League Baseball.

You know, it's the same, same thought process there is you have to be willing to invest at a high level in order to stay near the top.

And you don't have to be the top, but you got to be somewhere in the game so you can compete with the top if you want to get there.

So I would just think really that and then, you know, hopefully creating something that people feel like you add value to them.

Like if they come to your program, they could become a better person, they can become a better player and they can leave having more value.

Like, you look at the four guys we had drafted this year, not any of them were in the top 170 or 700 of their recruiting rankings.

Four guys drafted, not top 700, two guys in the first round, not top 700.

Like, can we continue to do that?

Can we continue to bring the best out of people and will people just want to be a part of that because they want the best version of themselves?

But that seems like excellent proof of concept.

When it, you know, maybe a differentiate factor when it's down to you and somebody else, the money's similar.

That's something it feels like you can throw out there that will change somebody's mind.

Yeah, it is.

I mean, I'll be honest, I'm not much of a sales guy when I meet with people.

Usually when I meet with people, I'm like, do you actually want to come here?

I actually don't try to close and get a kid to commit in my office.

It's usually like, do you want to come here?

Why do you want to come here?

Because in the day, like, you can go out there and sign wherever you want, you can force them to be on your team, you can do whatever you want.

But don't you want guys who truly believe in what you're doing?

Like, I still like coaching football.

Like, I still enjoy people that want to be in our building.

I want you to like, want to be here.

I want you to want to be around me.

I don't want to trick you.

Like, I actually enjoy what I do.

And the moment that it turns into how do I get you on my team, not you don't want to be on our team, is the moment that I'm going to look at people and be like, hey, the only reason you're here is because I got you or I'm making you stay.

I never want that.

And then it's probably exhausting throughout the process, too, that if somebody signs them with those pre-tenses, then you have to make sure that you figure out a way to retain them every day.

Correct.

And for us, like I said, I just want people who want to be here.

And if they don't want to be here, let's help you get somewhere where you think is best for you regardless of the situation, right?

It doesn't mean it's bad.

It just means, hey, not look quite the fit.

That happens all the time in every industry.

It just didn't work out or it was going great.

Now it's not any more cool.

Let's go do something else.

I just want people who truly believe in what we're doing who want to be here, people that I can look at and be like, we're on the same page every day.

I can joke around with, we can compete and we can work together.

Is there a number where it's kind of like a threshold where if you hit that, that's when it then comes down to your ability to coach, your ability to evaluate the fine?

I think Cesar Keogen said he thinks there's like 25 schools that are above that line.

Where do you think that line is?

I mean, I honestly don't know.

I mean, I would say in the 35 million.

Maybe higher.

I don't know.

I made up the number right.

But I would say, you just got to be in a position to where you can win the margins, right?

If you're half of what other teams have, you're not winning the margin.

You can win the margin, but that's a gigantic margin.

You got to get to a point where you have to win the margins.

So I would say whatever that number is of teams where you just are winning the margins.

I think that's the fun part of nowadays.

Everybody gets to build a team a different way.

Some people can build it and go all in on high school.

Some people can go all in on portals.

Some people can go all in on quarterbacks.

Some people can go all in on D-line.

Some people can say we're going to have the best wide out group and we're just going to sling this thing.

And there's no way you can cover us and play man coverage.

We're going to get light boxes.

We're going to run the rack.

Like there's so many ways that you can build a team now.

And because it's not like the NFL, there's not a structure of a cap.

So people can go above and beyond what they need to to get a certain player that they think fits their team and they can overspend, underspend.

But is it overspending if you have more money?

No.

It's all about the percentage of what you got and nobody knows what you got.

That's the trick.

And everybody's lying about what they have and saying it.

Well, they're agents who are certainly telling you something different but make sure you pay more.

It's exciting.

But you know what I like?

I like that the top and the players.

Like anything that helps the players.

I am the biggest advocate for players, players, players.

It is just interesting because Andy and I started our careers as sports writers and now we're podcasters.

And I feel like that's kind of happened to coaches a little bit too.

It's like you got into this because you love coaching football and you love the game of football.

But now you're fundraisers.

Yeah.

I mean, word, I think every job is different.

I think some places you don't need to.

I think it's just there.

Those things are there.

Other jobs you have to be.

So I think every single job is different and certain jobs you have to wear more hats than other jobs.

And I think you got to figure out and what I'm trying to figure out is which hats do I need to wear and which hats do I need to put on other people to wear for me.

And I think that's the greatest challenge.

That's why every job is different and you can't just take one coach and put them in place B and say it's going to work out the same.

It's because it's not because that coach may be perfect.

He may be great at X, Y and Z and that's what that school needs is X, Y and Z.

Other school may need A, B and C. Well, you ain't good at that.

That ain't going to work.

You should go to X, Y and Z.

There are over that many people that are good at ABCDEF.

Correct.

So it's about fit.

So I think you got to figure out what is needed and you got to just attack that in your program and try to raise that.

How honest do you have to be with yourself to figure out what are the things you're good at and the things you need to help that?

I think I got to be really honest with yourself.

And I think you got to understand that you're not the best at everything.

So you got to understand what you're good at.

You got to understand your strengths and you got to understand your weaknesses and you got to embrace it and say, hey, I got to listen to people.

You can't do it all by yourself.

Not enough time.

But then you got to change based off of your team.

What is the best use of my time this year, this season based off of our program, not just our football team, but our program?

Yeah.

I don't know what all the letters are.

Like A could be like tactical genius B is developmental freak, C is a great evaluator, D is a magnetic personality.

I mean, you can fill the letters.

We know that you're a great fundraiser and a great personality.

But like if you could improve one of your letters, what would that letter be and what would you be better at if you could choose it or add that?

Yeah.

I think if I could improve something, it would be a little less adaptive.

I'm a guy who wants to change and wants to say, hey, if something changes, let's go this direction.

I'm very quick to change, especially in today's landscape.

I wish I could be a little bit more like move it like this instead of move it like that.

And I've always been taught to stay narrow, small changes and I try to do that.

But my brain and how I work, I just want to make these big.

I want to move.

That's also why you've got this place where it is now.

Because I remember sitting with you in Scottsdale in your first season or going into your first season and you had to flip the roster, you had an insane number of new players.

It feels like that was the right skill set for this job.

Then now you've got to evolve that.

Because the people who failed don't change it.

But now you've got to evolve that because you do have it running.

And I think that's the challenges.

You've got to figure out how it works early.

But now I've got to figure out how we've got a decent recipe.

I don't need to drastically change.

That's challenging for me because that's what I want to do.

Because I want to be the best.

So if you want to be the best, you want to make changes and fix things.

I would say in a rhythm.

So I guess that'd be my thing that I need to improve on the most is just trusting that we're in a rhythm and trying to stay really tight to the rhythm.

And knowing that every Saturday of the fall that Sparky's not in the helmet's always that Saturday.

Wow.

It's not the perfect logo.

It is the perfect logo.

It's like really hard with uniforms because there's so many different options and stuff.

It's not not hard when you got the right one.

Well, it's perfect uniform.

Not as perfect as a logo right here on this table.

Advertising you guys.

Hey.

Yeah.

It's $10 million.

Look at this man's face.

This man's face makes me think.

We just need one person to step up.

$10 million right now.

Thanks.

Thanks Ken.

Appreciate you.

That is Kenny Dillingham.

And I think, you know, we talk about him being different than your average coach.

And I think his situation is different than your average coach because he is home.

He's where he went to school.

He's where he grew up.

And as long as Arizona State shows that it's committed to being at the top of the big 12, you know, possibly more than that as you go forward.

I think he's going to be fine.

Here's the key to keeping Kenny Andy.

And it's just, it's probably true for most coaches in college football.

They don't have to go spend $40 million and try to compete with some of the big boys in the sport to do it.

I think what Kenny wants from Arizona State is a pretty reasonable ask, which is consistent investment and the clear interest of continuing to level up.

Because I think that when you get to a point as a coach, if you hit the wall and you feel like you've gotten the most out of something without further desire or investment from the place that employs you, that's where people, you know, meet burnout.

I think as long as Arizona State continues to try their best to fundraise, which clearly they have, but also give the coach a resources to fill out a staff and do what he needs to do to get incrementally better.

Then he feels like he's working to build something and I think he'll be there for the long term.

So that's up to Arizona State so far, so good, Andy.

Definitely.

And it seems like people are willing to work with Kenny and he's willing to work with them.

It's not like you said, it's not give me a $40 million roster or I'm out.

I'm just against.

We talk about how Indiana has broken everyone's brain about like what to expect in college football and they have certainly, but there's another thing that Indiana should have done for everybody, which is shown you how awesome it is to be good at football.

Like, you would think that like if you're an Arizona State's AD or the brass there or anywhere else that's, you know, deciding how much to invest or to continue to pour into the football program, that's an Indiana show that, you know, maybe they didn't do all the investing on the front end, but the back end of being successful and what that does to your university, like we all should have learned from Nick Saban's success at what it did for Alabama, the university, not the program.

You would think that everybody in that has a power for football team would be very vested in the idea of being very good.

So it shouldn't be like arm wrestling.

It still blows my mind hearing some coaches that some really big time programs like programs that we would perceive to be top 15 programs in the country saying they had a hard time getting the resources that they needed.

I don't think anybody should be saying no because there's so much window of opportunity out there right now to actually be good.

And of course, the fruits of being good are really, really worth the juices worth the squeeze.

Well, and it's very interesting because Arizona State's in a little bit different position.

Some of these other big 12 schools.

Arizona State, not a traditional basketball power.

Like the traditional basketball powers do have to worry about how they balance what they spend on the football roster and what they spend on the basketball roster.

That hasn't been the case at Arizona State necessarily.

Now, they did make a really get higher in the offices and they had Randy Bennett from St. Mary's.

So they're probably going to have just a cavalcade of the best Australian basketball recruits that they can get coming through.

But I don't know that they're going to have to spend necessarily the way Kansas does and the way Arizona does on their basketball roster.

So I think that may help Kenny where he's probably not having to compete as hard for those dollars as some of the other big 12 coaches do.

Yeah.

And again, buddy.

You give somebody a taste of something they want more, right?

I mean, they give them the taste of something that, you know, there aren't a lot of football programs out there.

Maybe a lot more in the 12 team error than there were a few years ago, but still in a very selective fraternity of teams that have made that playoff.

And, you know, they didn't just make it and get crushed either.

They got to experience a classic playoff.

They should have won the game.

They gave them a 14-13.

Like if they stopped the 4th and 13, they beat Texas.

Because that's the other thing we talk about too.

It's just like the diminishing value of just making it just to get steamrolled.

I do think that there is something to be said.

And I know that, you know, moral victories don't really feel like a warm and cozy place in college football.

But if you give your fan base a taste of a playoff game that against one of the teams that we perceive to be one of the most talented teams in the country, a fight for their lives, like that's different than just making it as a formality and getting your *** kicked.

Like they could have advanced in that thing and probably should have.

And, you know, Andy, if you remember that game, there's a lot of things that we've got a lot going on.

I think we were, I was on the way to the Rose Bowl.

The game got canceled around it.

But I remember going live with you at the Rose Bowl.

And, you know, that team got their butts kicked.

I feel like if I remember correctly for much of the first quarter and a half of that game and fought back and obviously the individual sensationalism of Cam Skatibou probably helped.

But like the fact that they fought back and could have been shut up when that game is remarkable.

So like if you're an Arizona state fan thinking, oh, well, we could, you know, we could make the final four.

We could compete for a national championship isn't as big of a pipe dream as maybe it isn't some other places.

Yeah, it is.

I mean, look, we've seen how close they were against Texas that and that Texas team, remember the next week took Ohio State to the wire.

They gave Ohio State the toughest game they had during that playoff run.

So yeah, I'm fascinated to see what happens.

You know, Sam Levit goes, he's at LSU now.

They bring in Carter Bowley.

Is that the next big fine for Kenny Dillingham will find out?

I mean, Kentucky fans obviously know who Carter Bowley is.

I think people who watched the SEC know who that is.

But I don't know that the rest of the country knows who that is.

So I'm very excited to see what he does this year.

And we just about how good Arizona state is going to be is it be able to do the same Levit Jordan Tyson thing again?

Is that lightning in a bottle or is that a model that you can do?

Mariana Miller is a good receiver.

He came from Colorado.

He didn't really have the best situation with people throwing him the ball last year.

Now he was behind some really good receivers as a freshman at Colorado.

But last year when he was their best receiver, you know, they had a hard time getting the ball.

I don't think Arizona State is going to have a hard time getting him the ball.

So I'm excited to see what he does too.

Yeah, it's going to be fun to watch.

And again, week two, they're going to college station.

That's going to be a fun game.

And you know, Arizona State season a little bit derailed last year when they they gave up a long touchdown pass at the end of Mississippi State.

So maybe they're the ones that are on the other end of the shocking result in an SEC big 12 game this year.

Yeah, we'll see.

And also, you know, the the entire big 12 like needs these games.

Oh, yeah, they need they need those types of games.

Obviously beating Texas tech on the road is going to mean Texas A&M on the road is going to be a difficult challenge.

I don't think that Arizona State season will be diminished if they happen to lose the game.

But think about, you know, feathers and caps here.

I think that, you know, the big 12 carbole use a few of those.

So that's a big game.

Not only fairers on the state, but for the big 12 as a whole.

Absolutely.

All right.

Let us switch to the big 10 because there's some very interesting news coming out of Michigan over the weekend.

RP NACO reporting that it sounds like the investigation into what happened at Michigan during this room or situation is coming down this week.

There's a previously scheduled board meeting on Thursday.

The question is does Ward manual the AD survive the week and it sounded based on the reporting Sunday night like they were talking about a buyout.

Ward manual talking to our friend Ross Deltin from Yahoo says, the president I have had several great conversations of the past couple of days.

This is Ward manual to Ross Deltin.

There are no plans for me not to continue to be the athletic director for the near future.

That's a, there's a lot of lettuce in that word salad at the end.

Yeah.

There are no plans for me not to continue to be the athletic director for the near future.

Well, the near future could be like Wednesday.

And there's a double negative in there too, which makes it a little bit more complicated.

Right.

Um, I just keep going back to this conversation that you and I had the day that Sherone Moore was fired.

Yes.

And although it was a very shocking story, neither of us were floored.

And I understood when listeners readers, viewers got mad at us for saying this was an open secret and everybody knew and they say, okay, why didn't you report it?

Well, because you got to be able to prove something like that.

The bigger question is because we know that there were implications made to the Michigan administration that something was going on.

And they didn't actually do anything about it until after the season when basically page shiver that the woman in question, she basically flipped and said, this was going on.

But they had surveillance video surveillance video from the complex.

All of these things they could have been looking at.

And I wonder if we're going to find that they weren't looking as closely as they should that they were just like, okay, whatever.

Because one thing somebody who was involved in the NCAA investigation and all of that stuff told me is, so Chris Parkridge, remember the assistant coach Chris Parkridge Ari?

He got accused of something.

He got exonerated in the NCAA investigation.

And one of the things that was used to exonerate him was a piece of video from the cameras in the complex.

And from my interesting, they found that within like a, once they started looking for it, they found it within a day or so.

If someone said the head coach is having an affair with his administrative assistant, how much video do you think there is that may help back up that story?

My guess is, or just prove it either one.

Yeah.

I mean, I would say quite a lot of video evidence should exist.

And if it didn't, that would be a tough thing to think that actually happened.

If it's happening in the work, I mean, human nature, if you walk by somebody you're engaged with, you don't, you know, things happen.

But you know, that's that speculation.

But what I what I will say, Andy, is people can believe that this was a, you know, that we were full of *** or why didn't you report it and all the stuff that you began with.

And that's fine.

They don't have to believe that we knew or whatever.

But what I do know is nobody came to us and said, hey, this is going on.

Like word manuals job, if you, if you're tipped off is to, is to check into that.

And it sounds like it was missed multiple times before they actually did anything about it.

All I know is, if you and I have heard something and it wasn't even specifics about who it was or what he was specifically doing, but heard through the great vine that things could be going on in terms of inappropriate behavior.

If you and I know that, he knows it.

But there's no way that like we would be privy to any sort of information or, or hear say behind the scenes that the athletic director, it's a always goes back to the same thing with every college football scandal that's ever happened, which is what did the coach know and when did he know it?

It's like, yeah, nine times out of 10.

If not 10 times out of 10, they knew, you know, well, and so here's the weird part about this.

So underward manual, the football program is experienced of resurgence.

It is won the national title.

Now I think most Michigan fans would say that is totally to Jim Harbaw's credit, not to word manuals credit.

They also want a national title in basketball, but then he can't hold on to Dusty May after that.

Yeah, I don't know that he could have stopped Dusty May from going to the Mavericks.

But yeah, so here's the question that I would ask a Michigan fan because the athletic director obviously, there are lots of other scandals too.

So you can, oh, yeah, you want to throw Connor Stallions at his feet, all that stuff.

Of course you do.

Yeah, you have to include all that stuff.

But even the cheeseburger goes out his feet, whether it's *** or not, I think we both agree that it's ***.

But the La Troy, the La Troy Lewis thing is an interesting one too.

He was a staffer who was accused of ***.

He ended up getting fired from his job with the, he'd left Michigan and gone to Atlanta and a falcon, he got fired by the Falcons when that situation came to a head.

So like this lock in generous, the law firm that's been investigating all this stuff, they've been doing this for months now.

Yeah.

The other one was there was a computer crimes thing with someone.

Well, yeah, that was the offensive coordinator where he was cyber, essentially cyber stalker.

Yeah, I've seen the, I've seen the, the killing identities.

Actually, the hard ball, I'll describe it.

The Jim Harbock coaching tree while at Michigan, there's a lot of people who are fired or dismissed for, impermecible activities.

But if you asked the Michigan fan, did Ward manual do a good job?

A Michigan fan, not just me and you, is the answer to that?

Yes.

I mean, they won a national title in both major sports.

Not if you look at the Wolverine's message board, the Wolverines are, are Michigan cited on three, read the message board there.

There are very few people who think you did a good job.

Yeah.

How many, how many athletic directors that are currently employed?

Is it zero that have won with hires that they made, won championships in both major sports?

Well, he didn't make the Harbock higher.

He didn't, he was after Harbock?

I believe he got there in 16 and Harbock got there in 15.

Okay.

Well, that I guess that doesn't count.

Yeah, I think, I think Hackett was, was still in that period where he was, he was helping out.

That's the one who brought Harbock back.

Okay.

So that's the, but, but no, usually, you're right about that.

It was Hackett.

That's my mistake.

Yeah.

Usually, when someone has been, has presided over this kind of success, people are a little more willing to let the other stuff go.

They're not willing to let it go.

And I think a lot of it has to do with Harbock leaving immediately after winning the national title.

And I think a lot of the Michigan fans view the relationship is between more word manual and Jim Harbock being very contentious that they didn't like each other and that, that word manual, quote, unquote, "shaste" off Jim Harbock.

I don't think that's what really happened.

I think Jim Harbock was always going back to the NFL.

Yeah, he was always at you and he go back to the league.

But I think that, here's a question, Ari.

He was always going back to the NFL before word manual cut his pay.

Because that, don't know the answer to that question.

Because that, that actually is the turning point, I think, for everything in this situation, in the football situation at least, where instead of firing Jim Harbock, and they actually had a fairly reasonable buyout number, at least compared to what we've seen lately, at that time, instead of firing him, they basically cut his pay in half and said, you can make it back through incentives.

And Harbock did it.

He took it.

But I don't think he, I don't think he ever forgave it.

Okay, so let me come to the defense of the athletic director here.

Can I read you a score?

Yeah.

49 to 11.

You don't score that is?

Would that be the Georgia Michigan Orange Bowl?

No, that would be the Wisconsin Michigan game during COVID or Michigan lied down in front of every game.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, ***.

That was the one that was the screenshot.

There's a screenshot where it looks like you could drive like a semi truck through the hole.

Yeah.

Michigan then dropped to one and three.

And listen, I understand that COVID was a weird time.

And I understand that things were different that year.

Obviously, games are being canceled.

Teams weren't fully healthy.

Michigan was an absolute disaster that year.

And I think if you were to Galaxy brain, that's like I like to do so much, that Ward Manual had no choice but to do what he did.

In fact, I think you've been...

He had a choice he could have fired him.

He actually made... That's what I'm... That's what I'm guessing.

That's the best decision.

Yeah, yeah.

If he would have fired him, we never would have known what would have happened afterward.

In fact, the cutting of the play, the pay, which was I thought, a show of mercy considering the fact that it happened during COVID, actually was the catalyst for keeping the coach that ultimately turned it around.

Right.

So you can be upset with him.

And it forced Jim Harbott to change his staff, which is what the probably was the more important thing that happened.

So I actually think that the cutting of the pay was a shrewd move.

You know, if you think that like, oh, no, and that's the thing.

The guy's tenure has not been just one misstep after another.

He did thing like more athletic directors might want to consider what he did there.

It's just so much easier to look back after the championship and go look what he did to him.

And it's just like, well, you have to make decisions in the moment.

Yeah.

Nobody saw that coming.

I didn't see that coming.

You didn't.

But here's the number one overarching question.

And I understand there's some things that happened at Michigan that be go beyond the scope of football.

Like when you start going into morality and the treatment of women and harassment and affairs and all those things, you start to like leave the purview of the past and going, if this thing looks bad and they end up cutting them loose, that he should be.

It's a no brainer.

Like, but how much?

How much of the harba-esque type stuff, the spy gate stuff, the cheeseburger stuff, you know, can an athletic director oversee while winning championships without it hurting their tenure?

A lot of it is that's the thing that's always been interesting to me.

It's like, well, they're winning Michigan football.

I think, I think people are willing to forgive stuff like that if you're winning.

Now what happened in the Shiro more situation?

What happened with some of this other stuff is people are not going to forget that.

And Norse are they.

So it's very interesting.

But when we had the initial discussion about Shiro more the day he was fired, I thought that Ward manual leaving would have been imminent.

Now if this investigation took months, spanning through a basketball season, that ultimately culminated in a national championship.

And then the departure of the coach, things get a little bit more interesting.

But I don't know that there's any amount of winning that can save a person in his position from what they might find he was responsible for, which is not properly treating female or just employees in general.

And that's not for people with offense.

And not being as careful like not looking into the things that you should be looking into, not looking into them as closely as you should.

All of that.

And so my suspicion is we'll get more information about that pretty soon.

And this will come to a head pretty soon.

And again, if you look at what Ward manual said to Ross Dellinger, that doesn't mean I'm keeping my job.

I'm still trying to figure it out.

We're not done with this thing yet, but it's, you know, there's no plans right now for me not to be that, yeah, you got to do.

In the near future.

Yeah.

The near future may not run past this week.

So we will keep you apprised of what's going on with this story.

I would imagine you're going to have some action on this thing.

There is a previously scheduled board meeting on Thursday.

So that's one of those deals where I think if there probably wasn't a previously scheduled meeting that there might be a, a specially called type meeting, where usually like, because when those things happen, and they have to just, because they always have to post a notice that the meeting is going to happen, you always know something can happen.

But the previously scheduled one, there's no guarantee.

Like you knew they were going to meet.

Yeah.

Eventually, this report has to be done and has to be distributed to the board.

It sounds like it's about ready.

Yeah.

100%.

So we will let you know as we find out more with this story because it is probably going to be developing throughout the week.

Another story that will be developing throughout the next week.

And we will get an answer, at least we're scheduled to get an answer on July 22nd.

So that would be next Wednesday.

All right.

David Gabriel, Georgia.

So if you don't know this name, this is the player considered to be the next can't miss running back in college football.

So he is originally from Montreal.

He moved to America a couple of years ago.

He plays for the Baylor School in Chattano, Gattano, Tennessee.

The Baylor School is a really good private school.

Baylor and McColley is like the ultimate rivalry.

And Baylor has produced a lot of really good players.

They put a lot of players in college.

Their head coach is a former South Carolina system Eric Kimmery, Eric Westmoreland, the former Tennessee linebackers.

They're, you know, linebackers coach.

So lots of lots of good players, lots of talent.

He's playing against good competition and he is destroying people.

This guy looks like an NFL running back already.

And he's got it down to Tennessee and Ohio State, Ari.

And it is a, it's a fascinating recruitment.

Even like a good old fashioned high school football highlight tape, right?

And this guy looks unbelievable.

Now again, it's high school, but he's playing as good competition.

And if you talk to college coaches, they will tell you that this is one of the bigger no brainers.

No guarantee that he'll, he'll translate.

But like there's a, Chris Lowe wrote a great story on three today.

There's an anecdote in that story that Eric Kimmery tells the head coach at Baylor.

So Will Must-Champ son played quarterback for the Baylor school and Will would come out to practices every once in a while.

And the first time he saw this guy at practice, he took a video and sent it to Kirby Smart.

And basically told Kirby Smart this kid could start for you right now.

I actually think and I'm no Charles Power or Cody Blair.

So forgive me for my novice attempt at analyzing talent.

But the likelihood that a player that is this good at this possession, like the floor on these types of guys is much higher than it is in other positions.

Like even if he doesn't turn out to be, you know, one of the best running backs in the entire country, like he doesn't have to be Jeremiah Love.

The likelihood that he would go somewhere and not least be a contributor or somebody who's pretty good is fairly unlikely.

And I think that it also brings up a discussion point about what's reasonable to pay a running back, which is obviously the whole idea with him here.

And if they and Chris is got some numbers in the story.

So he get like a lot of times we're just talking about this stuff in the abstract.

Chris provides some context.

So Tennessee has offered more money.

It sounds like the Ohio State, but both of them are offering seven figure annual salaries.

But Tennessee's it sounds like it's closer to two million.

And while Ohio State says above one million, it's not as high as Tennessee's.

And that's what I find interesting about this because Ohio State does not have to pay as much as Tennessee to be in the mix for this guy.

By the way, this is very similar to the recruitment of David Sanders who is currently a starting tackle at Tennessee.

Yeah.

In terms of numbers.

So this is like the interesting point.

And I'm excited to talk about this because there's multiple like the ways you take this.

One is how much to know Ohio State pay Quinch on Jenkins.

I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head.

It might have been in the seven figure range, but probably not too long.

Probably not then.

Maybe that's changing in the future.

I don't know if like deals like this change the salary structure for running backs in the future portals.

But I feel like running back is probably the easiest position to supplement in the portal or at least get what you need out of.

You can find a good one.

And if the better your offensive line is the better the running back you find.

Yeah.

And it's not like this is a. I mean, I actually think you can make the cases a huge position of need for Ohio State too.

Like I know Bo Jackson is good, but like I think that they could use a stud like this at the position.

Ohio State traditionally has done this over the years.

And you know, I know that there's probably some *** Foster highlight tapes floating around there, right River?

You know, but I mean, listen from a river to river was a baby.

But let's let's talk about Jamal Lewis.

Let's talk about Tennessee has some great backs through the years.

But is this a good move financially for either of them is a question because it's like if you if you have a limited finite amount of money, maybe Tennessee is firing off the money *** it right now because they're desperate to get back to where they need to go.

But even if Ohio State's willing to pay seven figures, that means that Tennessee is not insane.

So does it make sense to pay your money back?

Yeah.

These are all recruiting photo shoot photos of him.

The one of him in Tennessee Jersey is is from before July 1st when Tennessee officially switched from Nike to Adidas.

The Nike Adidas of it all is an interesting sub plot as well because Adidas has been more likely to put pitch in to feature the athletes at the Adidas school.

Nike has been very selective about which athletes it will showcase.

And so there's that there's the he wants to wear zero which at Ohio State, you have to earn zero.

It's the block.

It was sunny styles last year.

I don't believe Ryan Day has awarded it yet for this season, but it's probably going to be somebody who's been a major contributor like Brandon and this is one of the favorites to get it.

It would be cool if they just like if you did enough in high school to earn it though.

Like come on, like it's like we're tired numbers.

That's all negotiable depending on how good you are.

But yeah, I get what you're saying.

It's it's a high.

That's the thing Ohio State is less likely to bend that sort of thing than some of these other schools that have not had their level of success.

Yeah.

100% and North should they I was just joking, but like it's just a. I just find it fascinating because as this podcast develops as the sport evolves, we have to have like real GM like discussions about what makes sense.

And like I personally as good as he is don't think that he's worth a $2 million price tie that comes with him.

Well, let me let me ask you this.

If NIL had existed in the early 2000s because there's only one back I can think of who had this level of hype as a high schooler and then showed up and was I can think of two.

One happened to be a freshman in 1980.

That would be Herschel Walker.

The other one is another one guy who tested the NFL early.

Nope.

Oh, who's the other one?

Adrian Peterson.

Oh, yeah.

Adrian Peterson was this level of hype coming out of high school.

That was a different era of the internet at the time.

No social media, but they, you know, we still had internet recruiting services at that point.

He was he was this level of hype and then got to Oklahoma and turned out to be better than I have.

Well, like they had to change the way they did a change where Adrian Peterson lined up because he got going so fast that they had to have seven yards behind the line.

Streams instead of five.

Like it was insane how good he was.

And so if you if you are sure that this person is that level, then it's worth it.

If you are not, it's not.

I just looked this up while you were talking.

And I was thinking of some of the best true freshman running back campaigns the whole time.

Yep.

Here are the results that I found while you were looking.

Ron Dane at Wisconsin in 1996 holds the NCAA freshman record for both rushing yards, 2109 and scrimmage yards, 2242.

And the average 6.3 yards per carry and score 21 touchdowns and 96.

Adrian Peterson rushed for 1900 yards, which is now viewed as a record at depending if you are you one of these people like me that cuts off 2000 and now is the modern era because they don't like thinking about history.

But yeah, obviously Wisconsin like how many carry what was the average per carry?

I run into the average six yards of carry, but I don't know the average off top of my head.

I'd have to open up a new window, but he finishes the Heisman trophy runner up as a true freshman, which is an important thing to say.

Adrian Peterson that freshman year at Oklahoma, if you're young and you did not live through that, please when you're done with this show, get on YouTube and just Google Adrian Peterson, freshman Oklahoma highlights, it's incredible.

Two more or three more here, Andy, and I have an overarching point to make about this.

Yeah, yeah.

Obviously Herschel Walker 1980 as you referenced.

Michael Falk at San Diego State, 1998, rushed from 1500 yards and 23 touchdowns on his freshman year.

And then Tony Dorset at Pittsburgh 1973, rushed for 1500 86 yards and set the NCAA freshman rushing record at the time.

By the way, can I shout out Ron Dane?

Sure.

He's remember high said maybe he didn't average as much per carry as Adrian Peterson.

He certainly did.

He did.

Adrian Peterson averaged 5.7 yards of carry his freshman year.

And Ron Dane, shout out as the first who am I?

Clue.

He was.

That's right.

But the point I want to make here is Andy, there's only been one really truly amazing true freshman running back since 2000 and that's AP.

And AP is maybe the biggest freak of a running back of all time.

We're talking about one person in 26 years, which is a way insane with how much better players have been getting over the past 10 years and recruiting.

Now I think there's other players who have had huge impact.

Like Maurice Claret was a true freshman in 2002 and he didn't have staggering numbers, but I think you could make the case that he had a bigger impact on the team.

So there are guys that would come in and earn that 2 million.

But if we are thinking about $40 million, and that's like the highest of high end right now, 40, 50 million at the most, 2 million on those rosters might not be as much as some other places, but $2 million would be like 10, 15% of other rosters in the power five.

Can I ask you a question though?

In college, because this is a thing we've talked about with a lot of people working college football, because yes, the pay scales have tracked similarly to how the NFL works, where offensive tackles, quarterbacks, defensive tackles, corners, edge rushers, like those are priority positions in the NFL.

And running backs, unless they're truly, truly special, like Sequan Barkley, their view is you can find someone cheap and get almost as much production.

Can you make that much more of an impact in the college game as a truly dominant running back?

Like Ashton Jimtie, I think is a good example of this.

I think that a truly dominant running back has a higher impact than college football than they do in the NFL.

Agreed.

So I think it's maybe worth it to try to pay a little more.

If you think the person is truly, truly special.

The question that you have the answers, would you rather have a truly dominant running back or a really good offensive tackle and a great defensive lineman?

Because like you also take the two big guys every time.

But at the same time too, places like Tennessee might be able to get all three.

So like it's not like this is their shooting.

They're only shot on this guy.

Right.

They had the highest priced offensive lineman in class.

He's a sophomore this year as David Sanders.

So.

Yeah.

And it's working out.

But I think that maybe if you were to allocate $2 million and shoot a large portion of your budget away on that acquisition that might not make sense for a smaller place, but it plays like Tennessee or Ohio State who has the money to spend, then maybe it's worth it.

I don't remember Ohio State's not.

They're probably spending more than most people are on running backs in this class or maybe more than anybody if they wind up getting him.

But they're not spending what Tennessee is.

There's a lot of Ohio State.

The last day they get a little bit of this count because they produce so many first rounders.

Yeah.

And if you want to win a national championship and whatever like they can sell that.

But Tennessee obviously is able to compete on those planes too.

They were going to play off playing Ohio State two years ago.

But they took their shirts off.

The one thing I will say.

Whenever we talk about Tennessee, I don't look in the camera.

I look down at River.

I just like his *** expressions.

Because the last two times Ohio State won the national championship for the last three times.

And probably even before that, I don't want to go all the way back into their history.

But they had Maurice Claret on the O2 team.

They had Ezekiel Elliott powering the 14 team and he rushed for like what 780 yards in the three postseason games on the big championship game.

Yeah.

And then of course the last run two years ago they had Trey Henderson and Quinshaw and both of which are starting running backs in the NFL right now.

So I think that there is.

Both of which had their moments in the run.

Yeah.

Like that screen that Trey Henderson took to the house last time at the Texas game.

So like I mean those those those things matter.

So you know, I do think that you know, having somebody who can be versatile and that's part of the reason I'm really high on Texas this year is they've got two really good backs coming in and they didn't really have one last year.

This clearly a person that could move the needle for you.

I'm just so fascinated by pay scale and you know, the other thing too is if you get somebody at a high school, are you able to maybe get them for cheaper in the long run if they turn out to be great to the other.

Here's the other piece of that this is different than an offensive tackle.

Although again, David Sanders played immediately, but with a great running back, the expectation is there you're only going to have them for three years.

They expect to play immediately.

You expect them to play immediately.

So there's not that sunk cost.

But is there a thought process too of like, Hey, no, no sunk costs like you said at the beginning of the tenure, but obviously I think it's easier to retain somebody that had a good year than it is to go get somebody.

Is that a fair statement?

I think that's very fair.

So if you make that statement on top of it and then you actually believe that the running back has the highest floor, that means you get them in for expensive out of high school, but then you have a higher likelihood of having a stud running back on your team for three full years than you would otherwise.

So like I understand the.

It's not like that.

It's been through this.

Yeah.

This is Jeremiah Smith all over again.

Yeah.

I would very, very curious and I'm sure Pete knows this.

I don't know this.

I would.

And obviously things have gone haywire since Jeremiah Smith was a recruit.

Yeah.

Right.

But I would be very curious to know what Jeremiah Smith's number was when he signed.

Oh, I guarantee you it wasn't two million dollars.

I can't wait to read the book.

I hope he writes a, I really do hope he writes a book someday and we'll learn the real numbers.

Because I bet Jeremiah Smith's freshman year number is laughably low.

1000%.

Now his current number is probably insanely high.

Right.

Correct.

Is he?

He's definitely the highest paid non quarterback, right?

Without question.

I would think so.

And I would, I would bet Jeremiah Smith.

Maybe archmaning, but probably just probably Jeremiah Smith has the highest amount of quote unquote real in I L. Yeah.

Because if I'm a company, I'm betting on Jeremiah Smith to be one of the greatest receivers in the history of the sport.

So I'm expecting him to be a legitimately great receiver in the NFL for the next 10 years.

So I want to get in now.

My understanding is that he's paid north of 10 million dollars in college.

Yeah.

Which I mean, is fair.

Like if he winds up being as good as we all think he's going to be in the NFL, then if you, if you got on the ground floor with him, you got a good chance of having a guy who is going to sell you a lot of shoes or a lot of whatever for a long time.

And Ohio State has gotten the money's worth too.

Like it's always a nice story to when a person you pay all that money to actually deliver something.

And he's done that.

Now while we're talking about this, I don't know if you saw this over the weekend, or this is about a week ago now.

But somebody with a fake account on Twitter posted this Ohio State wide receiver Jeremiah Smith reveals he is making zero dollars in an aisle this season with a fake quote that says, I want to win another national championship.

I figured the money could be used to make our team stronger in other areas.

And Jeremiah Smith retweeted it went, huh, with the laughing emoji.

Listen, I guarantee like that there's a there's an AI written thing on Facebook saying all that.

And there's a bunch of people who believed it like every like, yeah, and they're like, I knew this young man was special.

You know the thing Andy.

And I don't know if you'll agree with me on this like right now, obviously we're all on the brunt watch, right?

Like what's the bra on going to do is you're going to think the minimum or whatever.

I think if you're a LeBron, like that's an okay expectation.

I don't care how good you are in college.

I don't think any college player should ever not get as much money as they possibly can before they make the week.

Like that would be an insane move.

I don't care.

Like I know that like just in the thought process, like, oh, what is campus?

Putting the university first.

Nobody loves their university or should love their university enough to forgo all of their pre professional football money.

Like you should get every coach is taking discounts.

Are you so until then I don't think we need anybody to do it.

I don't think anybody's doing it.

I think if you're a bra I would take it this count because you want to win another championship before you're on your own.

Well, he's a billionaire.

So like it doesn't matter.

I love that.

I think it was I think it was as Agent Rich Paul said it on the podcast.

Like he's a legit billionaire.

And so the difference in salary, be it, you know, some middle-level exception or the veteran minimum or what he would have been making with L.A., which was I think he made like 50 million with the Lakers last year.

Yeah.

He's like, it's a negligible amount to a little bit.

I'm like, yeah.

Can you imagine being so rich that 40 million dollars is quote unquote, but I really don't think some fans see the distinction between those two things.

They might think Jeremiah Smith's made $10 million in college.

He doesn't need any more money.

And that's like just not true.

So we don't know how.

Yeah, we don't know what inflation is going to be like.

Yeah.

I mean, it's the most.

To be a bear.

I don't know if you know this, but I've been seeing a lot of this.

It's the most unaffordable houses have been in US history.

Yeah.

So.

And if he wants one in Malibu, he needs the money.

I know he hasn't made enough yet.

No, don't it free and clear.

Yeah.

If you made $10 million, you certainly could get approved for a pretty high interest mortgage on an oceanfront property in Newport Beach, but I don't think you could buy one outright.

So you got worked at a young man.

So do we, Ari?

Yeah.

By the way, $10 million.

That's right.

Back to the beginning of the episode.

If you'd like to give us ten actually, we're team players.

Give on $310 million.

And we'll advertise you on our show.

Is there a brand that stood out to you as like we're like, I think that we have one specific brand or at least I do.

I think you were with me on this.

Fetch.

You'd be a sponsor of our show.

Because we are huge proponents of this brand.

We enthusiastically talk about this brand.

With this, we have certain neighborhood Italian restaurant that's in every neighborhood and will drive the pizza to your house.

I think it knows.

You'll mean those.

Yeah, I think that the fact that the local neighborhood joint called the Minos hasn't done our podcast is insane.

Because like we would be the best ambassadors that company can ever have.

Oh, yeah.

I guarantee you the first person in the world who's ever had Domino's cheesy bread in their top five of appetizers.

I have said with a straight face on this show that it is the best appetizer in America at any level of restaurant.

I think that's worth $10 million right there.

And I mean it.

I truly like to be able to do.

So I don't know if you have another brand that you think about it.

You can touch base list.

But Kenny, thanks for the shout out and the attempt.

But the one thing I think all of our advertisers know is that we'll go above and beyond for them.

So if you are a certain pizza chain that wants to get into the college football space, we would be a pretty attractive and probably affordable.

Are you like those regular plain cheesy bread?

I do.

I like the pepperoni one.

Yeah.

I don't know what it is.

I mean, we have some variety here.

We can promote all of your products.

Yeah.

My number one food take that bothers you.

And I think it bothers most people.

And I know I'm weird on this is that if there's melted cheese on the sandwich, like I don't need the meat.

You should be deport.

Like in breakfast.

I like egg and cheese playing all yourself in American egg is the meat.

I like the meat.

I don't know.

There's certain thing what you're saying is I like grilled cheese, which by the way grilled cheese is awesome.

I do.

But grilled cheese with bacon, even better.

I yeah, I would like the plan one.

Yeah.

Weird out.

Yeah.

So it's weird take, but who I am.

We love you.

We'll talk to you tomorrow.

Eric Morris from Oklahoma State.

And also the other teams besides Oklahoma State because we think Oklahoma State will be the most improved.

But the other teams besides Oklahoma State that we think are due for the biggest improvement in 2026.

We'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Music] (upbeat music)