Does it matter if new Michigan coach Kyle Whittingham hates Ohio State?

As Big Ten Media Days have concluded, talking season is officially wrapped up among the power conferences. On Thursday, new Michigan head coach Kyle Whittingham had some comments on the hate within the rivalry with Ohio State: "I don't think there's any place for that." Should that be the case? Should the Michigan head coach immediately feel disdain for Ohio State? What do you think? Andy & Ari debate.0:00 On Today's Episode0:39 Presenting Sponsor1:47 Intro: Kyle Whittingham on Ohio State-Michigan10:20 Does it matter what Whittingham said?13:05 The word 'hate'18:18 Closing out with Whittingham20:41 Dear Andy & Ari, What if USC is good?26:25 Notre Dame fans?28:28 Oregon at USC, September 26th31:29 Dear Andy & Ari - Nebraska fans34:53 Nebraska in the super league?36:19 10-2 for Huskers ahead?39:32 Last time Nebraska won a big game?43:11 Ralph on Nebraska47:43 Wisconsin and Luke Fickell51:30 Dennis Dixon Story, revisiting Who Am I?54:40 Protect College Sports Act Update1:02:50 What is next for PCSA?1:16:20 Thanks for watching! See you next week!In this week's Dear Andy & Ari, the fellas start off with a great question from Daniel... Who would it bother the most if USC won the national title?Next up, a plethora of Nebraska fans chimed in and shared their thoughts on the upcoming season in Lincoln. Andy & Ari dive deep into the mailbag on the Huskers in today's segment.Later, Andy & Ari revisit yesterday's Who Am I with a story from Andrew on former Oregon QB Dennis Dixon.To close the show, Andy & Ari provide the latest on the Protect College Sports Act.Our show is also presented by BetMGM!If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here's how it works: 1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB.2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game.3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sureyou use bonus code CFB when you sign up!Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel

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Video Transcript

On today's episode of Andy Dari on three presented by Bet MGM new Michigan coach Kyle Wittingham says he does not hate Ohio State.

Uh oh, second to be a problem.

Plus, dear Andy and dear Ari, a great fan question about what happens if USC is successful this season.

Also Nebraska fans, we asked you answered what would represent success for the corn Huskers this year.

Great feedback from you guys and we'll talk about it all today on Andy Dari on three presented by Bet MGM.

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Welcome to Andy and R.I.N.

3 presented by Bet MGM.

We'll clean up from big 10 media days because Kyle Wittingham said something there that Ari immediately reacts to the group text just lit up as soon as he said this.

Ari's like we have to talk about this.

And I think it's interesting because my reaction was more.

Huh.

Well, that seems reasonable and Ari was like absolutely not no way.

Ari, quick answer.

I'll set you off.

Yeah, so Kyle Wittingham and I'm sure we have the quote exactly basically said you don't have to have hate and a rivalry for it to be a heated rivalry.

And I thought it was interesting because I have a quick anecdote.

I know a reporter who was in the scrum area when he said it and apparently a lot of the people who cover Michigan were not fans of it when he said it.

And I will say Andy having lived in that rivalry for a decade of my life that there's nothing rational about it.

And I think about the rivalry.

Yeah, right.

And I just think that even though in theory because I think I know what you're going to say, which is, hate's a strong word and all these different things.

That's what Kyle Wittingham said.

Exactly.

I just think there are certain things you just can't say when you're the coach there.

And it doesn't mean that he's going to *** in the rivalry.

It doesn't mean that I think that he doesn't appreciate the value of the game.

I mean, a lot of that has been like in the past when John Cooper said it was another game and you know, other coaches like Ridge Rod didn't really, you know, you've had coaches in the last 25 years at both places who haven't really embraced the game as something special or not said the right things in public settings and all those different things.

I think that's kind of worn off a little bit because it's just so hard to like truly teach and breed hate in your program when players are leaving so frequently.

But the question isn't, will he be okay in this rivalry?

I think the question is, can you say that if you're the coach of Michigan or Ohio State?

Well, here is what he said.

I've learned how intense that rivalry is how important the game is.

Hate's a strong word, but I want to win that game as bad as anybody in an arbor.

Like I said early on, what better scenario would there be than if that game came down to the championship in the Big 10?

That would be outstanding.

So we'll see what happens.

I thought Ryan Day was a pretty good guy when I got to interact with him at the Rose Bowl and based on what Urban Meyer has told me.

I just think a rivalry can be intense and emotional without the hatred factor.

I don't think there's any place for that personally.

I think Ryan Day is a good person to sit here and say, I hate Ryan Day, I'd be making *** up.

Okay.

All right.

Question.

Did your mom forbid you from saying that you hate someone when you were growing up?

I don't have any memories of that, but I do know that my wife does not allow our daughter to say it.

My mom definitely didn't let me say that.

She's like, hates a strong word and you got to think real hard.

You better really mean it if you're going to say it.

I know there's a Ohio State fan submission fans listening to them.

Well, we mean it.

We really mean it.

Yeah.

That's the rebuttal.

Yeah, they mean it.

I will also point out that Kyle Wittingham basically spent his entire life on one side or another of one of the most hateful rivalries in college football.

He played at BYU, his dad worked for Lebel Edwards.

He then was the head coach of Utah for 20 years.

We have said on the show many times how hate filled that rivalry is.

He somehow managed.

I don't think he hated BYU.

In fact, Utah was so scared of him going to BYU that they...

They put it in his buyout that he couldn't go there.

Yeah.

In my memory here is that Kyle Wittingham was actually quite successful in that rivalry, wasn't he?

I'm trying to look at...

Yes.

Highly successful in that rivalry.

Yeah.

I should have looked at something before he nominated it for a while.

11 and 6 in that rivalry game.

So again, I think that what you're saying is true.

I think it's also fascinating that Kyle Wittingham has a personal relationship with Urban Meyer, given the fact that Urban Meyer was at Utah before him.

Well, in the funniest part of that is Urban Meyer more than any coach I've ever met played up rivalry games.

You know, you meet a lot of coaches.

They're like, it's just another game.

Every game, we have to treat every opponent the same.

Urban Meyer was like, we do not have to treat every opponent the same.

He put BYU, when he used to you coach Utah, he put BYU logos on the *** kicks in the facility.

So that they would literally *** on the BYU logo.

And when he was at Florida, same stuff with Tennessee, Georgia and Florida State.

And by the way, I think he lost one game combined to the three of those teams when he put... No, Kyle State has to be...

He lost in Georgia in '07.

Oh, Kyle State when he was there had Michigan practice periods year round.

Yeah.

That's one period that was dedicated to beating Michigan.

And like...

So here's the thing though, do you think that Kyle Woodingham is cooked in the rivalry because of what he said?

I don't.

Okay.

No, I don't.

How you perform in the rivalry is the only thing that matters.

Like, if he wins the next three games, he can say to whatever the *** he wants about the rivalry.

I love Ryan Day.

I don't know that that's true.

I do.

Like...

If you're winning in that rivalry and you're winning at Michigan, you can do whatever you want.

And ultimately going to be judged solely on how you do against the other one.

I understand what you're saying.

I'm trying to have an optics discussion about what your fans want you to say and acceptance as one of them.

If he's beating Ohio State, they will not care what comes out of his mouth.

But then you also have to weigh into account too that he's not going to go 7-0 against him.

So if he does lose the first one, then saying this only creates an issue.

I don't know if Ryan Day's ever said I hate Jim Harbaugh publicly.

I don't know if he's ever said I'm pretty sure he doesn't hate Kyle Wittingham, but I'm pretty sure he does hate Jim Harbaugh.

So that's the thing.

I actually think that Ryan Day had a real distaste for Michigan during that period.

Now I think Kyle Wittingham is just a generally likable person, so I'm not sure that those feelings carry over.

But I bet my sweet *** that Ryan Dayugh has an appreciation for what it beating that team means and what it means for his stature as Ohio State's coach.

So it's interesting to me because while I don't take anything away from Michigan's likelihood of winning based on what Kyle Wittingham said, I think having existed in that rivalry for so long, I just wouldn't have said it if I were him.

I would have said that's an important, I mean, there's diplomatic ways of saying it without saying I don't hate them.

And by the way, we're like three or four years removed.

When was the spy gate game?

Was it 20, 22, 23?

23?

23?

That was the most hate driven game of all time and it made it there.

So like, yeah, I mean, it's like that.

That was when you think about the stakes of what was what was up for grabs in that game on the field, the spy gate stuff, Ryan Day's record, what Jim Harbaugh said about Ryan Day personally, all these different things, all culminating in a game that was deciding who goes to the big 10 championship game and ultimately the playoff and who doesn't.

Like that was peak college football in synthetic form.

Like that was pure hatred.

And I do think that there are certain rivalries that are like filled with respect.

And I think there are certain rivalries in college football that are actually filled with general general hate.

But at the end, Texas A&M and Texas A&M.

Well, he had the same person he was the last 20 years.

He didn't hate Kalani Sataki.

Those teams clearly hated each other on the field.

Like this is not going to stop anybody from hating anybody.

Yeah.

We'll see if they lose this year, you can bet your *** we're going to talk about what he said yesterday again.

Okay.

And if they win this year, they won't ever bring it up again.

I know.

Well, let me explain.

It's almost as if it's completely based on the results.

So let me ask you this.

This is something that used to be in like I have a different perspective on this and maybe I buy too much into it because I was so close to it.

But there was a when I was on the Ohio State beat and when Urban Meyer took over, Urban Meyer did not rely on Ohio kids a lot in his recruitment or as much as Jim Tressel did.

I did a story about three or four years into his tenure and he was taking on average five to five point five or six less in state kids per recruiting class that Jim Tressel did.

So over the course of a four or five year period, you're talking about almost half your roster less of Ohio kids.

And there was this discussion about whether that would end up hurting Ohio State when you bring in a bunch of players who didn't grow up understanding the rivalry.

Funny enough, it didn't because Ohio State never lost with him as their coach.

I think you seven and no, right?

But do you buy into the notion that the temperament of your coach because Urban Meyer played up the Michigan rivalry so much and acknowledged how important that game was.

And a correlation between that saying the right things being the right steward for the rivalry and success.

Or do you think that in this new transient world of college football where players come from everywhere and stay for much fewer years that like it's all about just excess of nose and getting your team prepared properly.

Because I do think that there's a certain motivational factor also that comes with playing it up.

Like if I were a coach of a place at BYU or Texas, I would play them up.

You should and you should do that and you should enjoy that.

And it's part of like you can feel it in the town during a week of a rivalry game at a big school.

Like you can feel it.

The players can feel it.

The players hear it everywhere they go.

So yeah, lean into it.

Absolutely.

So the question is did he make a mistake by not leaning into it?

It's not so much whether you want to get the game's not for three months.

There's the results and there's the optics.

I think optically he made a mistake.

I don't care about optics.

They care about results.

I care a lot about feelings and optics.

I know.

You care when the 20 23 old Michigan game was a *** of a lot of a better product as a result of the optics of it than it was just because it was a good game.

You said the optics is a better product because it was wild because Jim Harball wasn't even coaching because he was suspended.

Yeah.

That's an optics.

That's what happened.

That's a result.

Yeah.

If you don't think that actual genuine hatred makes a game more interesting, I can't hold your hand on that one.

Like I can't.

But why why why why does Kyle Whittingham who's lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan for nine months?

Why does he have to suddenly hate Ohio State?

Well, the other thing too is that you could probably like I don't know that Ryan Day who lived in Ohio State.

I don't know Ohio State for nine months before he played that.

I will bet you a billion dollars that Ryan Day was fairly neutral on his feelings about Jim Harbon company when he took the job at Ohio State as well as going to say is that I think that that also happens to form as you're there longer too.

I think that those feelings when you get to how intense it is and how you're treated as a result of the game naturally as the coach, maybe in year three, you might feel differently than you do at media.

Well, there's also the other piece of this is not just the on field part.

It's the how many times do you lock horns recruiting?

How many times do you lock horns over the same transfer and the transfer portal?

Like that that I find among coaches tends to cause harder feelings than anything else.

Yeah.

And here's the biggest secret of the whole thing Andy.

The 10 year war between Woody Hayes and Bo Schembeckler.

I think that like Bo Schembeckler visited Woody on his deathbed.

Like I mean, they were both respected one another very much.

And that's the thing that's changed and it's interesting because I think that Ohio State Michigan during the maybe the most heated time of the rivalries history actually was a respectful rivalry.

I don't think it changed to a hate filled rivalry until the past two thousandths.

I think as fans always hated the other.

The fans always hated the other team.

But you know, like the difference and maybe I'm nuts here and I'm going to change the rivalry here.

Just to try to illustrate this point.

But I get the sense that the Texas Oklahoma rivalry is much different than the Texas A&M Texas rivalry.

Just like the Michigan Michigan State rivalry is different than Michigan Ohio State rivalry.

What's your point in terms of the way fans interact with one another.

Like I feel like the Texas A&M Texas interactions are very hateful and very mean constantly.

Yeah.

Because there's no respect to what's the big brother situation.

Just like Michigan and Michigan state again, what's your point?

I think Ohio State and Michigan used to treat each other the way that Texas and Oklahoma treat each other, not the way that Ohio State and their interactions are different.

It's not the same and it's not a little brother, big brother thing in that regard.

No, no, Michigan right now Texas, but they they remember when Oklahoma, I'm telling you right now that the way that Ohio State and Michigan interact and view each other has changed in the last 10 years.

I'm telling you it's a fact.

They hate each other in a way that they did not like how it has been there nine months.

So he doesn't know all that.

I know.

Yeah.

So he's going to have to figure it out.

But you know, he's not going to figure out he's going to be Ohio State and nobody's going to care what he said yesterday.

Yeah.

We'll see.

You're so feelings based.

I just can't believe like sometimes I say things and it's like you're not like I feel like I'm like not able to get through to you.

I don't know.

I get what's there to get through.

If you win, they're happy.

If you lose, they're not.

It's pretty fricking simple.

No, I know, I know.

I think that we're talking about it because it's not just that.

Oh no, we're talking about it because you wanted to talk about it.

Yeah.

And the whole internet.

Yeah.

No, it's fine.

It's just like the SEC Big 10 thing like people from the SEC country say, well, we didn't say anything about the Big 10 at our media days.

And like how many times did you say that your schedule is such a grind?

You didn't say that in a vacuum.

That's what Kurt's dignity was making fun of.

But yeah, all this stuff does make this more fun.

Like, you know, the hatred makes it all more fun.

Yeah.

But I think we talked a lot of the difference.

We talked a lot about the difference between fans and players and coaches.

Using coaches don't feel the same way you feel because it's their job.

But it's the best when they do.

And they do sometimes.

Sometimes they do.

Sometimes they do.

But a lot of times it's their job.

And trust me, they take it more seriously than you do in a real way because it's their job.

Yeah.

It'd be like you before you're the week before you're being evaluated on your performance.

Like you would step up and be a better computer programmer that week probably.

So I don't, I agree with you in that nothing ultimately matters other than winning.

I disagree with you in that there are things that you should or should not say.

Like I personally still believe he shouldn't have said it.

Now if he wins, he could have said, if he said, I don't care if we beat them, that would have been one thing because there is a history hate.

I have no hate my heart for Ryan Day.

I have no problem with that.

Yeah.

If this, if this is a relationship between those two like Woody and Bo.

Great.

Because those game in the roster might be that might be the case.

Although there was some like intermingling and like mentorship in that love one.

But you mean like urban Meyer?

Yeah.

Oh, he also said we didn't say it on the show.

He also said that urban Meyer can come to practice all year round.

Except all the ones.

One year.

So he's not completely saying I'm everybody's welcome.

Like it's not he's taking it somewhat seriously.

Yeah.

I don't think that Michigan is worse off as a result of what he said.

Yeah.

But I think there is a historic, there's also historic like.

Go look at the coach.

How publicly how did they play it up publicly and how successful were they?

I think that like in the past in this rivalry coaches who have tried to diminish it.

It'll be unsuccessful.

If they're sniping each other.

If one of them says that one was born on third base like.

I just have never heard Kyle Woodingham sniped anybody about anything ever.

So I just don't think that's the type of person he is.

He's gotten hot before.

Yeah.

He's got not.

But we'll see.

We'll see what happens.

But I will say this.

Because Ryan Day is a nice normal guy too.

And like honestly, Jim Harbaugh was the only one who crossed the line and said things about the other coach personally.

If I were Ryan Day, I would have been.

I would have hated Jim Harbaugh too.

He was he was seeding behind the scenes, but he didn't play into it publicly.

Right.

Yeah.

That probably struck a chord.

I can't imagine Ryan Day ever staying anything like that publicly nor can I like about the other person.

And I can't see.

I don't think that these coaches do it.

But I will say that.

*** if it wasn't a little bit more fun when they actually hated each other.

Well, I think I think Jim Harbaugh hated her in my art too.

I think you had that.

Yeah.

And also, hate grows.

If Kyle Wittieham goes O and three against Ohio State to start his career off in year four, I bet he's going to feel differently.

Right.

Well, stuff has to happen.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be in the game.

It can be on the recruiting trail in the game, transfer portal.

We could very well be talking about them next year.

And they do actually despise one or so.

Just get it some time.

Give it some time.

All right.

Let's get to a dear Andy and dear Ari.

We got some really good stuff this week.

First question from Daniel.

For all the talk about Lincoln Riley's hot seat this summer, what if the other extreme happens and USC won the national title this year combined with Jaden Mayabe winning the hysm.

If that happens, who would that have the hardest time contending with that?

A, Oregon because they keep knocking on the door and lose the teams you play for or win national titles.

B, Notre Dame for all the blame they would get for dropping a game that helps them.

C, the SEC as a whole for going for straight years without winning a national title and seeing the big 10 do it with four different teams or D, someone else.

This is a great question.

Let me address B first, Ari.

Notre Dame didn't drop this game.

USC dropped this game.

The only people who think Notre Dame dropped this game are USC fans.

Everybody else knows that USC ran away from this game screaming.

So that, that one's out the door.

Like Notre Dame's not going to be late.

Did you find this to be easy?

I thought that the, I think the question, I think the answer is very easy.

You think it's, it's the SEC?

No.

You think it's Oregon.

Oh, yeah.

I think you're probably right.

Because for this to happen, no, they don't, they wouldn't have to be to Oregon in the regular season.

They could drop that game and go 11 and one win the big 10, whatever, whatever.

But it would probably involve a USC win against Oregon at some point, whether in the regular season, big 10 championship or in the playoff.

And yeah, that would be because especially because part of Oregon's success has been taking guys who traditionally would have been at USC.

Yeah, I love the SEC Big 10 rivalry, the way that we talked about it.

I don't think the stakes are nearly as high about like conference discourse as it would be.

It's just something you talk about in the off season.

Yeah, the Oregon thing would be an existential problem at that point.

Yeah, it would be like, how did USC cross the finish line before we did?

Yeah, because Oregon literally has built its persona about being the best West Coast team.

Right.

That's who they are.

Like having the team and then of course the recruiting of all the teams in college football.

And like I know like back in the day and we should have brought this up.

You weren't talking about Ohio State Michigan.

Like in 2010, I think Ohio State Michigan bumped heads for players a *** of a lot more often than they do now because players come from everywhere and they in their circumstances of arrival are different.

But in terms of like talent entanglements, like I'm assuming that USC and Oregon's probably leading the way in college football and most like over and in terms of talking trash to each other when they get somebody.

Yeah, but USC has been talking a lot of trash to Oregon.

Yeah, when they get somebody to work in wants.

USC's graphic department has been working overtime this off season and they are budding heads.

And I think that Oregon likes like if you if I ever write anything about USC like from a positive aspect and like when this graphic came out and that one that was not the grass.

I wrote a column for on three basically asserting that USC should be doing this fake it till you make it.

Taunt the other one.

You know, make your fans hype them up believe it like an Oregon fans lost their minds.

Now, like why do you even think that there's a chance that they could be good?

Like I think Oregon fans think that USC *** in his hopeless.

So like if USC actually won the national championship, yes, you'd have your fine bomb callers talking about the big 10s week scheduling and the same stuff would be happening.

But in terms of who would have the hardest time with it, I think it would be Oregon fans and I don't even think there's another answer to this question.

Yeah, I think I think you're absolutely right because Michigan's 1-1 Ohio States 1-1 in the NS-1-1.

I don't think anybody else in the big 10 would feel like it's personally harming them that USC is successful.

No, Oregon by far would be the one.

Yes, because it also means if USC is going to be this successful and maybe that's going to keep happening, is Oregon's talent level going to drop as a result of that?

And I know that Oregon's primary rival is Washington.

And I think that that's probably always going to prevail.

But again, in rivalry discussions, like USC Oregon seems to be more bitter at the moment.

As a result, Oregon and Washington had some pretty big matchups the last few years when you know, Kalen Abor was there and Panax was playing and you know, Dan Laning to Bore had those two or three games that they played against each other.

I'm not saying it's not a heated rivalry.

Geographically, obviously, of course it is.

But you know, I think that USC has a tremendous amount of resentment too for Oregon coming in and pillaging the state of California for their players.

So I have a trivia question for you.

Okay, I'm going to *** at it, but you can do it.

When was the last time USC beat Oregon?

Oh, it's been a long time, right?

November 5th, 2016.

Oh, I thought it was even further than that.

Remember, they don't play every year.

So Oregon is one four in a row and six of the last seven.

Sam Darnel was on that team.

Sam Darnel was on that team.

Yeah.

Super Bowl champion, Sam Darnel.

Yeah, the guy everybody in the Pacific Northwest loves now.

Yeah.

That's a that's a that's a crazy.

I thought it was longer than that, but it's still crazy to say, you know, again, they don't play every year.

You're right.

But let me tell you this.

It's a nice segue to remind everybody that was it September 19th.

That the day when Oregon goes to LA, that's going to be the game of the week.

So, you know, super excited about it.

Is it so?

26 or 3 or 4 days.

I know.

Proost River asked with this bother Notre Dame fans if USC did this.

I think it would bother them that USC ducked out of the game.

But also if USC were to win the national title this year, there's a solid chance they would have had to meet Notre Dame somewhere along the way.

Yeah, Notre Dame still might have a say in that.

So yeah, if USC wins the national championship, it would be, I mean, an Oregon probably has a say in that too, but as you mentioned.

But Notre Dame's also kind of in the same Oregon territory where it's been an Oregon's never won a national championship.

It's been what three decades since Notre Dame did.

Yeah, and that's an eight.

So it was the last time.

So, so we're pushing four decades now.

Obviously rival.

I mean, kind of like, I think a secondary, that would be a secondary answer.

I think Notre Dame would probably take it more personally than the SEC would.

But I think that because they're both USC and Oregon are geographically more intertwined and still play each other, I would still go with the West Coast rival deal on this one.

Man, that would be fascinating if that happened.

And look, this is this is the good part.

Like a team that has not been in the national title hunt lately, winning the national title, like Indiana was last year.

If that happens, if you can get a situation where every year or every other year, some team that has not been in the national title hunt for 15 years or 20 years or 30 years or 40 years, wins the national title.

Like, that's good for the sport.

So we talked about this with USC the day that Lincoln Riley talked to at Big 10 Media Days.

It was, it would be great for college football if USC is a national title contenter.

That would be fun for everybody, just as it would be fun if Texas A&M became a national title contenter or Tennessee became one or Penn State became one.

Like that's the more the merrier.

So fascinated by that.

But Ari, you were talking about the Oregon game on September 26.

We keep pointing to that one.

And I can't think of, like we talk about LSU Ole Miss and just the stakes of it, the hatred, that's real hatred going back to our Ohio State Michigan discussion.

That's real hatred right now.

But in terms of games that are just straight up important for one of the teams on the field, that game for USC is everything.

Yeah, I don't know if you got your calendar handy Andy, but that game is the week after Ole Miss LSU.

So we're going to have a pretty important eight day period there.

So I'm excited, but I think that this game, I think I ranked most exciting matchups or the games I'm most excited to watch.

This is in the top three of games that are currently set.

We don't know the circumstances.

There will be matchups that inherently become more interesting as a result of the wins and losses for the first few months of the season in November.

But as the schedule is currently set and I have my perception of where programs are, this couldn't be more fascinating.

And listen, USC feels like this is the year that they're going to be competing at a high level.

We talked about Lincoln Ryle earlier in the week, but Oregon's still going to be freaking awesome.

So even if your window is open, that's not an easy window to jump through when Oregon's standing on the other side.

So it's going to be a good time.

And then of course, the emotional aspect of that, you're talking about a decade of losses here.

So I'm cannot wait.

It's going to be so much fun.

This is the season.

And the fact that week one's kind of bad, it feels like we're going to have a slow start because you have a week zero week one.

And then once week two hits, it's going to hit like ***.

Yeah.

I got to just say, it's just a roller coaster.

The rest of the way.

There should be at least this, like a game like this once a week, every week, at least one.

There has to be a game every week.

And the fact that there's multiple weekends a year where there isn't at least one, at least from what we see right now, we know week one or week zero is terrible and week ones terrible.

We have to fix that.

That's my, my commissioner Josh paid pitch, one marquee matchup that has feelings and on the field implications, because that's what this is.

This is feelings and implications.

This is everything.

Yeah.

Well, I can't wait for that game personally.

And you know, Daniel, I, I'm assuming Daniel is a USC fan, so I hope for your sake that this is, this is how it goes.

I don't know if it will, but I am fascinated to see the Trojans this year.

Fascinated because they, they're one of the most interesting teams in college football because it feels like it can go one way or the other and everybody's exceedingly happy or everybody's absolutely furious.

And very little in between.

Yeah.

All right.

Let us talk to Braske now because we had a very good discussion after Matt Rule talked to Big 10 Mini days, but we needed help.

We needed context from Nebraska fans.

We needed them to tell us where they are coming into this season.

What do they feel like would make a successful season for Nebraska in their minds?

So I have a bunch of responses.

And I'm excited to hear them too because I genuinely just don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, because like we've had, and we've had the discussion a couple times this off season.

And I think we disagreed probably a little more.

The first time Ari was saying, oh, you got to, you got to win 10.

You got to get it or get in the playoff hunt.

And I said, no, I think if you're winning eight, that's probably okay because you're getting better.

And I think the answer is probably kind of in between where we started.

So I want to start before you get into it, Andy also say thank you to the Nebraska fans who listened to the show and provided us for us because we asked yesterday and you guys stepped up to the plate and sent a point of email.

So like it feels like this.

Yeah, it feels like the scene in Miracle on 34th Street where they're dumping all the letters to Santa on the judge.

Yeah.

I mean, it doesn't make you feel like it's morning.

Doesn't it make you feel good that this is a national college football show?

You can talk about a team.

And there are a lot of direct fans of that team.

Yeah.

Listening to the show that are willing to write in.

Like I feel like that's like a really nice feeling for the show.

And I'm like genuinely grateful for you.

So thank you for taking care of me.

Yeah.

I love you guys.

And this is, this is awesome.

So I'm going to read as many of these as I can right now.

And we'll kind of figure out what the consensus is.

So this is from T-Rev.

To me, eight wins is the number for me to feel good that we're improving and heading in a good direction.

Seven means you did what you're supposed to do, but nothing more.

Being year four from that rule, I need to see a ranked win, whether it's Iowa, Washington or someone else.

Nine wins means we're really cooking, but I need to see eight to be confident.

Okay.

Let's hear from Jay.

As a Husker fan, I think I can speak on behalf of other legit level headed Husker fans is saying, we appreciate good coverage and can take the objective criticism on our below at Huskers.

However, we do appreciate our crazy unhinged fans as well.

We need them to all that said, after three years of rule, I firmly believe rule is our guy.

He's definitely earned his least extension with me personally.

So onto the reason for this email, according to me, for a successful Husker season in my eyes, we need to do a couple things when the games were supposed to, such as being five and o going into Indiana, do not get embarrassed and out coach due to in game coaching decisions I.e.

special teams or game clock management show up in every single game battle ready and fight until the clock reads zero.

I firmly believe we need to finally get a top 25 win at some point this season and steal a win from Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon or Washington.

This one's in all caps.

Beek Iowa.

And of course, the obvious earn and win the bowl game.

Maybe we sneak into the playoff.

Maybe we don't.

Who knows, but these are my personal expectations for successful season for my boys this year.

Have a great one, fellas.

And they'll take care.

Keep up the great work.

Go big red.

All right.

Ready for JB and Omaha.

Okay.

From my perspective with recruiting class, Nebraska has coming next season seven wins with a win over a ranked team or Iowa or eight wins with no embarrassing blowout losses would be enough to make me optimistic with their recruiting class coming.

Remember, they have a quarterback who was judged to be the best at the elite 11 this year.

So this is a very exciting recruiting class for class of 27.

For dear Andy and Ari, there's been talk about a 24 30 team super league as mentioned by Notre Dame's AD where Ohio State Michigan, Alabama and Georgia, all college, other informed their own super league.

And that's an area with 24 to 30 teams.

How confident should Nebraska fans be that they would be included history since 1962 would be a slam dunk.

Yes.

As the most successful program for 62 to 2001.

I think most wins from 1970 to 2010, but their last 10 years would point would point against them along with a relatively small population of living alumni base.

How concerned should Nebraska fans be that they would be left out of the super league?

I will ask the answer to that question before we move on to the next one.

I don't think they should be concerned at all.

Nebraska would be in whatever's whatever's next.

Yeah.

All right.

I mean, it's too big a brand.

It's too big of a brand and it's already in good in good footing.

It's not like it's a big brand outside of the big time of the SEC.

I think you're good.

It's a big brand in spite of everything that's happened in the last 15 years.

So I think I think you should feel pretty confident there, especially if they do start playing a little bit better.

All right.

Here's Matt.

I'm a lifelong Husker fan.

It's almost a religion in my family.

My dad was a student in Nebraska during all three national championship seasons in the 90s.

I was lucky enough to attend one of those championship games.

I was born in 2002.

So I've never actually seen the Huskers that I grew up hearing stories about.

You asked what Nebraska fans would consider a successful season this year.

After thinking about it, I'd say 10 and two.

At first, I wanted to say nine and three, but then I looked at the schedule.

A nine and three season probably means losses to Indiana, Ohio State and Oregon on paper.

That's reasonable.

But then I started thinking about Bo Polini.

We fired Polini after consistently winning nine games because we couldn't get over the *** against the biggest opponents and get into the playoffs conversation at least.

If this year's nine and three is viewed as his success despite losing every important game.

Did we just make a decade long lateral move?

Is it a real success if the nine win season comes with the 2012 big 10 championship like ***-woping from Indiana or Ohio State?

Maybe it's different because of the depression Nebraska has been in over the last decade.

Maybe getting backs and nine wins is a major step forward.

But I think for this reason to truly feel like a success, we need to prove that we can beat at least one of the top 10 teams in our schedule.

And Iowa.

I love the show.

Also we don't hate Ari.

Go big red.

It's interesting because that's the thing that I always come back to.

There was a tweet.

Do you remember foe Polini?

Is he still cool?

Is he still tweeting around?

He's around.

But we actually met him once.

Yeah.

I haven't seen.

I don't know.

Maybe I've got.

So my Twitter feed I accidentally always have for you instead of who I'm following.

So I always just see things that I think I'm looking at my timeline and I'm not.

But he posted on September 3rd like in 2015 or 14.

He said, *** *** it.

Quit wishing me a happy bo polini day.

It was because it was 9-3 on the calendar.

And that was a really funny tweet.

And it's just like on one hand, I understand because the decade long lateral move is a real kick in the knackers.

Nobody wants to do that.

Right.

But at the same time.

And Wisconsin's kind of going through this too a little bit.

You have to get back to the baseline before you break through the baseline if you fell below it.

So even though you know, 9-3 would feel kind of like the bo polini days.

They haven't been 9-3 since he left.

So you have to get to that point.

But again, like Andy and I talked about yesterday, it's not linear.

Just because you go 9-3 this year doesn't mean your schedule is not one game harder next year.

And then you go 8-4 again.

Then you want to be able to prove that you can at least compete with them.

Now, we can't forget that Nebraska almost beat Ohio State.

Was that last year or two years ago?

Was that last year?

Two years ago.

Two year next title season.

Remember, they had been in close injury issues for Ohio State didn't play ultimately that well in that game.

But they had a chance to win on the road in the horseshoe.

So they could have already had one of those.

But I think it's fair, like as a fan.

To be disappointed if you lose all your big games.

Like that's your prerogative.

Well, okay.

And I feel like I would be like you if that were me.

Like if I were a Nebraska fan, I wouldn't want to just go 9-3 and get my *** kicked every time we play anybody who's legitimately good.

This got me thinking when's the last time they won one of those games?

I can't even remember.

Think I know.

I think Nebraska fans correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I think it is 2015 when you beat Michigan State in Lincoln 39-38.

Crazy game.

Yeah.

And that was when Michigan State was awesome.

It's the only loss Michigan State had in the regular season.

They didn't lose again until the playoff against Alabama.

Yeah.

That's a long time.

Yeah.

So my thought process is if you're constantly turning over your roster every year and your team is different than what does 9 wins mean if it's not linear.

But at the same time, I also buy into the notion that Tray Taylor is coming in.

That's the quarterback that everyone's excited about.

And you know, viewed as the number one quarterback prospect in the country.

Solid recruiting class coming in.

Maybe you have a better portal cycle with some excitement after nine wins.

Like I can see the building blocks there.

9-3 wouldn't be disappointing.

But if you don't like go to bed at night, like feel like a million bucks because you didn't beat any of the best teams on your schedule, I also think that's a very rational thought process.

All right.

Here's one from Brody.

This is a little bit different from the last one.

I've arrived at eight and four as the bar for Nebraska.

You can probably find some fans say that seven and some that say nine.

I think the majority would land on eight as the pass fail measure.

Here's why three non conference wins with Ohio bowling green and orthocoda remaining nine conference games.

Let's be honest, we aren't going to beat Indiana or Oregon or Ohio State.

If we do, it probably tells Andy it was a successful year and we probably are taking here a business in other games.

That makes three and three with six other conference games.

Any Maryland, Michigan State or Rutgers loss would be a giant issue to Nebraska fans would seem like a step back to the Scott Frost era.

Even though I think Rutgers on the road after Illinois on the road is a sneaky huge game, I think you're probably right about that, by the way.

So now we're at six and three where I think we were running to Illinois, Iowa, Washington.

Teams in Nebraska with fans would associate as their big 10 quote unquote peers.

I think Nebraska fans would take two in one or one in two if the win is Iowa as a measure of success in those three games.

I think that's really interesting.

I think that's a very interesting way to look at it.

Can you beat your peers?

Not necessarily can you beat the teams that are Nebraska already proved a matter of Matt rule that it can beat its peers consistently.

That really made a lot of Thursday night a couple of years ago was.

Yeah, a few years ago, they had some pretty bad losses.

I'm trying to look back at their schedule to last year, but last year they actually had a pretty reasonable, you know, I think losing 40 to 16 to Iowa was not the way they would have drawn it up, but they also lost their quarterback losing 37 to 10 to Penn State.

It felt like the kind of the bottom fell out from underneath them at the end of the year last year because that was the Penn State team that had already fired James Franklin.

A Penn State was better at the end of the year, but yeah, but you remember the fight and I game against Minnesota last year was a turning point.

That's what was, yeah, that was the game where it was 24 to six.

They got their butts kicked in that game.

There were five and one going into that game.

They only lost to Michigan by three points.

They beat Maryland.

They beat Michigan State and then they went on the road and laid an egg on Friday night in front of the entire country.

And then that's when a lot of Nebraska fans started getting, you know, a tummy ache.

So in 2026, if you're able to take care of all those games and your three losses are the best teams, well, maybe not a reason to be over the moon.

I think you could take, I mean, because the first battle is beating your peers, right?

That's the first battle.

So when the game is just supposed to win and then when the games are not supposed to win.

Yeah.

Ralph and Maine, I think you nailed it about the number of Nebraska needs to win for it to be considered successful 2026 season and one in which the program made a set for it.

Eight and four that would suggest they started five and a one at Rutgers on the road in November and they went two and one in the back half of the season against the three games of Washington, Illinois and Iowa.

This is, yeah, this is a common refrain here.

Ralph says, I have one question for you.

I know you don't get any tangible proof of media days about how a team will do in the fall.

The representatives are usually full of optimism and cliches and it's not like seeing a team practice, but is there a team that changed your opinion about how you feel they will fare this upcoming season based on how coach and players carry themselves and divide the exuded either positively or negatively?

This would apply to any conference media days you attended.

The only one and no, I don't think Ralph, you can judge any of that on media days.

The only one I would even come close to saying and we talked about this on the show the other day is I was pleasantly surprised by the rhetoric from Lincoln Riley because there's another one dramatic shift.

Oh, there's two for me, two other ones for me.

Kentucky.

But I already felt that way about Willstein, so I don't know if that changed my mind.

I actually think in my head, like I've convinced myself that Kentucky is going to be Alabama in the week two.

I don't know why.

And the other one would be Wisconsin.

I thought Luke fickle was I read through the transcript yesterday and watched the videos that you sent me.

And I'm like thinking of myself looking at Wisconsin schedule.

It's actually very favorable.

Like, yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

Pop, probably is the most likely to coach himself off the hot seat this year.

Yeah, we had a window to do it with their schedule.

If you if you go look at it, it's a favor call draw.

I love those responses from the Nebraska fans.

I really appreciate that.

Thank you for all the thought and time you put into those because I and I feel like, you know, we had one who told us his age, but I think we had a decent age range.

I think we had people in their 20s, people in their 30s, people in their 50s.

And so I think the the common theme is beat your peers.

I think there are some people that feel like you need to beat one of those superpower teams to really show, hey, we're serious here.

But I think that has to happen yet.

The common theme here is somewhere between eight and four, nine and three.

And the answer to those records can also change based on how you perform in the games.

Like, there's a feel to it too that I think people will know, you know, nine and three with four blowout losses or three blowout losses to all of the best teams and eight and four with competitive losses.

I think you might even take eight and four.

So, you know, we'll see how it turns out.

But, you know, that's about generally where I thought maybe I was a little bit off by demanding, you know, playoff contention, like maybe we're a year away from that, especially because whenever you have a recruiting class, it does a pretty good job of like making you feel optimistic for the future.

But I will say this one thing that I think is really difficult.

If you root for Nebraska and you're in your 20s or 30s and you know the stories and you've seen the videos of the lore of how great that team was at some in the 90s and then you've never been able to experience it like that is got to be difficult.

And I also, because like Indiana, and you don't actually understand it probably because you've only heard it from your parents or you've seen it.

But let me, let me put it this in perspective for you like, when Nebraska is winning national titles, what a national powerhouse they were.

I grew up in Orlando, Florida.

We didn't have the Florida or Florida state or Miami average bench press and average squat hanging over our weight room door.

We had Nebraska's offensive line average, average squat hanging over our weight room door.

Like, yeah, everybody did.

And like River just pointed out behind the, because I thought about him when I said it, but like Tennessee fans his age field this way too.

There are a lot of different, it's like interesting because Indiana just won the championship and their fans have no memories of ever being good.

So it would be cool to see some of the traditional powers that were, that were really good because Tennessee won the national championship when I was in middle school.

So, and I remember that people were, you know, flashing Tennessee stuff and wearing tech Tennessee gear was cool in Cape Creek, Arizona.

So, you know, they have been cool in the past and it would be cool for people who have maintained their steady loyalty to a program to actually feel what it felt like to be in the Golden days.

And I think now is the best time to ever really hope for that.

So one aside, Andy, as we move on to the final segment here is that Wisconsin doesn't play USC, Oregon, Ohio State this year or Michigan.

So I don't know what's going to happen.

There are 21.00 underdogs in their opener in Green Bay against Notre Dame and they might get off to a shake.

You don't have to beat Notre Dame to have a good year here with this schedule if you're Wisconsin.

You don't.

You think if they get to nine wins this year, they would feel really good about things.

So, and they have Notre Dame USC in Iowa, which are probably the three most important games on their schedule, but they can also win nine games losing all three of them.

So we'll see how it goes.

But Wisconsin might be a team that you know, you've kind of forgotten about, but might be pretty good this year, especially if Colton Joseph is awesome.

And I think there's a chance he will be with that running ability.

So, bonus little Wisconsin segment there, but I do think that, you know, you do get a sense and I do firmly believe, Andy, and I know you do too, that a coach is temperament or things that they're willing to say or allude to, often is a peak into what their psyche is.

And you do buy into media day communications and, you know, everyone's confident, everyone's laughing.

And like you said, cliche's, but you know, when Lincoln Riley says the window is open and we have full alignment for the first time, you don't say that if you're feeling like *** by your team.

Yeah, he never said that before.

And Luke fickle did oh, same thing.

He would, he would sort of be cliche optimistic.

That felt very different this year.

And I don't think it's an accident that after they said he was coming back, that team won two games.

It probably had no business winning last year against Washington and Illinois.

Like it's, they had two freshmen on defense, two linebackers that came up.

I think they had to start the war again game, which by the way, Wisconsin played well in.

And then like, and I heard Luke fickle talk about this.

I think it was on part of my take.

Like those young players assume the leadership role on the team.

And also fickle explained this and this is not something, you know, when I talked to Chris McIntosh, their former AD last year when he made the decision, keep fickle.

This was not something we talked about, but we talked about all the injuries they'd had.

But one of the other things was fickle mentioned that was sort of when they turned the page from Will Billy Edwards come back from his knee injury because it was sort of maybe, maybe not for a while.

And that was when they realized, no, he's probably not going to be healthy enough to play.

We're going to have to roll with what we got.

And I think that changed the mentality of the team too.

So we'll find out like, I don't think most, I think most fans understand this.

There's some who don't because we put this out on on social peony this week and got a lot of pushback.

But there's never been an easier time to tell when you need to fire your coach or when you need to keep your coach and give him more money.

Like, if you have a competitive payroll and your coach *** or your team ***, your record ***, fire your coach, it's never going to get any better.

Yeah.

If you are, if you are kind of middle of the pack, but with a lower part of the conference payroll, not only should you not fire your coach, you should give him more resources.

And I will bet you'll go into the top half of the conference.

So that's, and you can't fairly, you can't fairly break down Wisconsin without at least acknowledging one, they were behind the eight ball financially and two, they've had some of the most horrific injury luck and college football.

Yeah.

So I remember what I remember what caused me to say this and what caused the pushback.

Bob Chesney in his speech at Big 10 Media Day says it's never been easier to tell who's good and bad at this.

It's true.

You know, he's right.

He's absolutely right.

All right.

One more note from Andrew, just listen to your podcasts who am I on Dynastix and I wanted to share my own Dynastix and story.

I met Dynastix and the youth football meet and greet in 2007 and Eugene, all the *** pop Warner teams got to come to Eugene and play around Rob and tournament in Austin.

It was a dream come true for all of us.

Everyone, our team were enormous *** fans.

Everyone wore Dynastix and Jonathan Stewart jerseys.

Our team got to take a group picture with him and he was nice enough to sign a football for another kid on our team brought.

We all traced over his signature so we could all have one for ourselves.

From my couch and Medford *** at 10 years old, watching on TV, Dynastix and Cry on the sideline at Arizona after fully tearing his ACL and knowing his college career was over, is one of the saddest memories I have as a child.

For me as a lifelong *** fan, 2007 feels like the one that got away.

Every fan base has one of those and for us, it's that Dynastix and senior year.

A national championship for *** was destined to happen.

It's first ever less than 10 years after becoming nationally relevant until it wasn't.

19 years later we're still waiting wondering what would happen if Dynastix and Dynastix and Terri's ACL on the fourth quarter of an Arizona State game that had already been decided.

Yeah, that is.

We talked about this after who am I.

One of my favorite parts about the who am I segment is it for our younger listeners and viewers.

You get a window into some of the more deeper passionate memories of older fans of your team.

Like Dynastix and to an *** fan is absolutely that season 2007 is the one that got away.

He could have won the Heisman.

They certainly could have competed for the national title.

Yeah, it's, I think it's important to go back into the history and remember these guys who maybe didn't have the biggest pro career, but were very impactful on the college game.

Yeah, and it's a, you know, sorry for bringing up bad memories to some extent because I do remember like that how crushing that was.

But you know, it's just a reminder too of how fricking hard it is to win a national title.

Not only do you have to be good, not only do you not have to play other teams that are very good, you have to escape injury bugs.

You got to get the calls when you need it.

You can't turn it over in bad times.

Like there's so many different things that go into it.

But I thought it was an important person to review because he was one of the better players from my youth.

And I remembered watching him play and being at the game that he ultimately was heard at seeing the app from that it was really, really difficult.

And you know, I didn't know that Sandy or I forgot.

But until I was doing the research for the who am I this week, I didn't realize that he had a knee injury that he aggravated before.

I thought that that just happened.

So that probably in the air probably doesn't happen in the Arizona game if he's pulled from the Arizona State game.

Right.

When the game's out of reach.

Because the tear apparently occurred in the ASU game and that happened in a game that they had already won.

So like it just *** and I understand that.

But thank you for listening.

And also if Dennis Dixon's out there, I just want you to know we remember you.

You're freaking awesome.

You're awesome.

Awesome.

Who am I?

Listen, I got to come up with a really good one next week.

Ari, one more thing before we go.

We haven't talked much about the bill in the Senate that protect the attack.

But I do think we need to have a discussion after what happened on Thursday, which was again, nothing.

The bill get what that's nothing.

So yeah, it's a vote on the Senate floor.

And it seems that the clock is running out on it.

Theoretically before this recess, before the Senate goes to recess next week, theoretically, they could they could call for a vote.

Either Monday or Tuesday, they would have a vote either Thursday or Friday.

But it seems pretty slim now.

What they need is for the big 10 in the SEC to say they're going to get behind it because senators from those states are not nearly as willing to support the bill.

And so the big 10 presidents had a call.

They adjourned it without a vote, which may as well be a no vote.

None of the power for leagues voted on whether they're going to support the bill.

Now we already know the ACC and the big 12 supported.

They've been pretty vocal about it.

But one quote that Pete Neko Scott talking to someone who's been working on the bill is, if it doesn't go up for a vote next Friday, they probably need to find some new senators sponsored basically.

So because there is another session of the Senate that begins in September.

But remember, it's midterm elections.

There's a lot going on.

It's probably not going to happen.

They're not going to vote for it.

And they're probably not going to vote on it.

So with that said, Ari and I had a discussion about what that means going for it.

The Protect College Sports Act is probably dead.

Probably done the Senate bill that conference commissioners, athletic directors, all those Muckity Mucks have been fighting for for years, had wanted Congress to bail them out somehow and solve their problems for them.

Well, unfortunately, are they going to have to solve their own problems because the big 10 in the SEC could not come to terms with the bipartisan group of senators that were sponsoring this bill.

They could not agree on a lot of the finer points of it.

And so basically the bill isn't going to have the votes and they're not even going to bring it to the floor.

Yeah, which, you know, I think the reason why we haven't spent a ton of time talking about the idiosyncrasies of this and what it's going to do is I think that we had a pretty good idea that there's a lot of moving parts.

It's a lot of people.

Obviously, things generally in the government move slower and less efficiently than we would like them to.

And it just kind of like feels like to me that this is the way it should go.

Like go fix your own issues.

We don't need the government to step in and do this.

I think that we should fix them on our own.

So, you know, I just, I don't know what you think this means long term for college football, but I think it kind of means what I think there's always been the case, which is it's messy.

Things are moving around.

Everybody wants something else, not one singular person's in charge.

And we have to figure out a way to navigate all of those challenges in order to fix the issues on our own.

Well, you and I said this when the bill dropped.

We had Ted Cruz on the show.

He was one of the sponsors of the bill, Texas Senator.

He's a Republican.

He worked with Maria Cantwell, who's a Democrat from Washington on the bill.

And you and I said it right off the bat.

We said the big 10 in the SEC are not going to get on board with this.

And they did make a minimum says it went on.

But I don't think that Cruz and Cantwell and the other senators who sponsor the bill, nor do I think the conference commissioners and the ADs that were lobbying for this.

I don't think either party understood the other party's world.

Like the senators had no idea apparently that if you wrote a bill that essentially took aim at the big 10 in SEC and said, we're going to make sure you don't form a super league.

You've just broken their trust and they will never, ever back you.

Yeah.

And also going after intentionally or unintentionally, the two most powerful arms of the actual sport was probably not going to get you that far.

Correct.

Meanwhile, I don't think Greg Sankey, Tony Petiti, NCAA president Charlie Baker, which is weird because this was all Charlie Baker was hired to do.

He's a former Massachusetts governor.

He was hired to essentially lobby the federal government for this sort of thing.

I don't think they understood or appreciated the amount of wheeling and dealing that has to be done to get something passed in Washington.

And the fact that you're not going to get everything you want.

You have to be willing to compromise and sacrifice some things to get it through.

They were willing to provide a framework for them, but it wasn't enough.

They wanted everything.

They wanted essentially, they wanted the clock turned back to 1995 where they could make all the rules.

They could set a salary cap that would actually be enforced and they would get an anti-trust exemption so the players couldn't sue them.

That's not going to happen in the real world.

You can't get all that.

And honestly, any North should have.

60 senators who agree with that.

Yeah, in North should, I don't think.

So I think that a lot of people were probably in the same boat as us.

So this is probably never going to happen.

It's too pie in the sky, and they were right.

I think what people are probably most interested in now is what does this mean moving forward.

And frankly speaking, the question that I have is, is it broken and does it even need to be fixed?

Okay.

It's not broken necessarily.

I mean, despite what people will tell you.

Like when you hear a conference commissioner saying the college sports are in chaos, that they're in crisis, they are lying.

Like they are straight up lying to you.

The money is flowing in more than ever.

The difference is they are undergoing a market correction because now they are paying the players.

Whereas for decades, they broke federal law by arbitrarily imposing a wage cap on them.

Now they're trying to comply with the law, and they don't know how to handle it.

For years and years, they'd make all this money, and they're like, how do we, what we can't, we can't keep it.

We got to spend it or maybe Uncle Sam might tax us on it.

So let's, let's put some waterfalls in the facility.

Let's pay the softball coach $1 million a year.

Like you don't need to do any of that.

Yeah.

Um, but they don't know how to handle it now that they're paying the players.

And they also don't know how to stop themselves.

They're like, we need a cap.

No.

Just don't get bullied by ages.

Don't get knocked in the creek.

Spend your spend the money you have wisely and win.

Or don't.

Like, that's it.

That's what every business in America does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm with you 100%.

And I do think that the broken aspect of it is the money's not coming in.

They're the game ***.

And no one's interested.

Like, and none of that's true.

Right.

But, okay.

If you do want a salary cap, there are ways to do it.

Now let's, let's talk about the things that could happen now.

Because there's, there's two potential routes, probably that they can go.

I guess there's three.

One of them is don't do anything.

Just keep doing what you've been doing.

That may end up being what they do for a while.

But that's probably not what they want to do.

So the other potential route, and you've heard this mentioned over the last few weeks.

And we've not gotten into it a ton on the show because you guys are smarter than this.

I know I saw it on Sports Center last week during the SEC media days.

The SEC might break away from the NCAA.

We spent zero minutes on that, by the way.

Yeah, they're not going to do that.

Yeah.

So, here's what they might do.

Here's what they might do.

What the SEC might do, what the big 10 might do.

And I think if they did it, the other, the other leagues would do this too.

Would establish their own set of rules.

Like the SEC would have its own salary cap.

The SEC would have its own eligibility rules.

And the SEC would have, you know, its own tampering rules.

All of that.

It would then have to enforce those on its members.

But it would be, if you want to play in the SEC, you have to go by those rules.

And the hope is that a court would say, well, the SEC doesn't have what's called market power.

They're not the dominant thing.

And the SEC can just say, hey, look, I know you may not like these rules, but if you don't like them, there's this other thing over there.

And you can go do that.

You have other options.

The issue before was nobody had, nobody had any other option.

So.

But is the hope there then that other conferences would adopt similar rules?

Or is that when you start getting it?

The thing is they adopt similar rules than an allucleusian.

Exactly.

The other part is they're competing.

So if we, if we follow our history and we pay attention to what people actually do instead of what they say when they're lying to us, what would happen is the SEC would establish a massive salary cap.

The big ten would go, huh, the SEC salary cap is in football is $50 million a year.

Or is it going to be $75 million a year?

So we get better players.

We can pay more money.

We'll get better players.

And it's not that they're not going to play each other.

They're going to play each other the same way they play each other now.

And so if that, if that happened, the SEC would then bump its salary cap up.

And then the big ten would bump its salary.

Like that's how it's actually.

It's supposed to work.

But it's also, isn't that kind of what's happening now anyway?

It is.

There's no cap.

But yeah, you just keep raising it.

Yeah.

And there is one way to have a hard salary cap.

There's one way where you can do it and legally do it.

And if somebody would like to cap the income, they want the same players.

They just want to pay them less.

And that's universal to everybody.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, if you want that, there's a way to do it.

Because the NFL has a hard salary cap.

The NBA doesn't have a hard salary cap, but the way it's written now, it may as well be.

The NHL has a hard salary cap.

Major League Baseball does not, but they're about to have a lockout over that very topic.

If you want to have it and you want it to be legal, you have to collectively bargain with the players.

Now, the players aren't employees.

The schools have been very, very adamant that they not be declared employees.

I think if you talk to a lot of ADs right now, they'd say, you know what?

I'm not so against the players being employees.

And would they be employees of their individual schools?

I think it'd be more like their employees at the conference.

Would all of them be employees?

They're not revenue sports or more like charities.

So football might be treated differently than another sport.

That's fine.

Football makes all the money.

You just saw Stanford create a chapter, essentially a union bargaining unit among their players.

You just saw that.

Now, it's not the first time somebody's tried to do that.

Northwestern tried to do that in 2015.

It was quickly stamped out by Northwestern.

It's not happening.

Like you hadn't heard Stanford say a word about it.

Because this is something that the people at the schools, at least the ones that are thinking forward, might be okay with now.

Those smart schools.

Yeah.

Stanford, what do they know?

Well, I think that what I think everybody wants us to pay less to play within the confines of the rules and everybody to be playing with the same rule.

Because the idea that you just got done talking about how the SEC and poses its own cap, which is knee cap, they're teams.

Nobody wants that.

So it wouldn't knee cap their teams.

They would make sure they had a higher cap than the ACC and the big 12.

Yeah, but they were the first ones.

The big 10 could impose a higher cap than the SEC and then they're just at their race at that point.

Yeah.

And you know what, they're already racing.

So I think it'll be interesting and I think that we're probably going to get to the only way to collectively bargain eventually because it's probably cheaper than what's happening now.

They go.

Yeah.

It's actually, Ari, it's like when we talk about coaches buyouts.

Eventually, they become a math problem.

Yeah.

Eventually, this becomes a math problem.

Ten years ago, the idea of employment was crazy because you've 401K's, this ability, retirement, all of that.

Like, this is pretty expensive.

That's seem very expensive.

And at least that those expenses are also somewhat predictable.

But correct.

You can plan for those.

So this is more, this is way more expensive and it is continue to rise now.

I think all markets find their level.

I don't think like, again, I think ADs who say this will go up indefinitely if they just don't change anything.

I think they failed basic high school economics because there's only a finite amount of money.

Yeah.

It's not going to be $1.00 for running back.

Like we're going to get to a place where it makes sense.

Yeah.

Right.

Eventually, it stops.

Although, I see you might have something to say about that.

That's true.

That's true.

Well, that's an interesting part because one of the sticking points with the leagues was that they wanted to close what they're calling a loophole.

I wouldn't call it a loophole.

But they wanted to make it where companies that do business with the schools, if they pay a player that counts under the cap.

Ted Cruz, who has worked with the schools, who they thought was going to be their savior, came out on Thursday and said, hey, we're not going to make it where Nike can't pay a player if they want to pay a player or Deitas can't pay a player if they want to pay a player independent of what the school's paying.

Like David Gabriel, George, it's the Tennessee recruit.

You can say Tennessee's instructing a deed is to pay this kid.

But if a deed is says we want to pay this guy, who's to stop them?

Yeah.

So that's what Ted Cruz is saying.

And that again, that was one of the many sticking points.

So they were never going to get to this because again, neither party understood the other's world.

Ted Cruz, who, look, he's a senator from Texas.

He's very tight with Cody Campbell, who is the board chair at Texas Tech, Plato line at Texas Tech.

He's an oil billionaire.

We talk about him all the time in the show.

He's funding Texas Tech's roster.

Do I think Cody Campbell had a lot of influence on this bill?

I absolutely do.

And it was written in a way with the media pooling media rights pooling stuff that we talked about when it when it dropped.

That was written in a way to benefit schools like Texas Tech.

It benefited the schools of the big 12 in the ACC far more than it benefited the schools of the big 10 in the SEC.

Which if you're Ted Cruz, that might be good business to make sure that one of your in state billionaires is happy with you.

But it is not going to help you when you have now broken the trust of the big 10 in the SEC, which is what happened.

Little bit of a get to us too, Andy.

We get to follow all the ebbs and flows and the trials and tribulations of this continued evolution.

You know, and you know what, I'm okay with also status quo for a while because I think the more information and the more data you get, the more of a sound decision you can make if and when you get.

Well, and the end of the market may find their level or they may continue toward a CBA or who knows?

Maybe the leagues do decide they want to make their own rules.

Now, I would argue that that's going to be very difficult because what you're seeing is the NCAA having a problem in forcing rules.

The college sports commission, which is the thing that was created by the House settlement to administer the cap, they can't really enforce anything at all.

If you're the SEC or the big 10 and you make your own rules, like if you're the big 10, you make your own rules.

And all of a sudden you got to go after Ohio State or Michigan or Penn State or Minnesota or Nebraska, whoever it is.

And we've actually seen this because we saw the big 10 step in with the science ceiling situation in Michigan three years ago.

People in Michigan hate the big 10 for that.

Yeah.

Are you willing to be the cops?

Are you willing to be the bad cop?

I don't think so.

Before you could be the good cop while the NCAA was the bad cop.

Yeah, that doesn't strike me as something that's functional.

So I don't know.

I didn't go to a medill so maybe I got some work to do, but that seems high.

I think that we're all just going to get to the point where it's a math problem.

They're going to figure out that collective bargaining is going to level the playing field of just what everyone's doing.

I don't know if it'll level the playing field in terms of competition, but everybody will be on the same page and it'll find it's cheaper.

Then once they find it's cheaper and they'll make more money just paying the insurance and paying the 401Ks.

And everybody can stop *** about who's doing what over there.

I think we'll get to where it's going.

You want me to answer one, the one question I'm sure lots of people are asking about collective bargaining because I'm sure this is the question I get a lot.

Why would the players ever come to the table?

They've got everything now.

And here's how you're the schools you go, we're going to lock you out.

It might take a week and I don't mean a week during the season.

It might take a week of miss paychecks and the players will be like, okay, sounds good.

Let's get to the table.

Let's talk.

You know, the funniest thing is that the players have all the leverage, but there's no all the schools have to say is we're not playing football this year and the players leverage goes.

They need the schools to exist and for these environments to exist for them to be a asset of any kind.

Right.

And unlike the NFL PA and the Major League Baseball players association, they don't have a work chest.

Yeah.

They have not been saving for this occasion.

Yeah.

So one week of miss paychecks would be about all it took.

So plus what it is, we saw what Kyle Wittingham said about the minor leagues.

You saw that.

Yeah.

I don't know how that would work because of minor league baseball.

The smaller teams are owned by the pro teams.

So what colleges are owned by the pro teams?

I don't know.

Yeah.

That seems highly unlikely and incredibly and unnecessarily complicated.

Yes.

But what I do know is that college football, whether it's officially or unofficially, is still the developmental league for the NFL.

And all the players, although they want to get paid a ton of money right now as they should need college football, its coaches, its facilities, its stadiums, its games to be the mechanism for which they use to get to where they ultimately want to get.

Yeah.

As our friend Janagi, the old homageem said on the show Sunday, money beats Saturday, money.

Yeah.

But and the thing is it always will, well, certain positions.

I mean, look, if you're if you're a good quarterback in college football, you actually could think more for a year or two than you would make the NFL.

But not overall and probably never overall because the NFL is a bigger business than college football and will remain a bigger business.

So yeah.

And I think that everybody likes play.

It's kind of like the same thing of like when the players in the video game were happening, remember, any when they're like, these players are going to want thousands of dollars to be in the game.

They'll take five.

They just want to begin the game.

They would like a free copy of the game.

That's a big one.

Yeah.

They wanted to exist.

And I know that the stakes are much higher in this in this regard than they are with video game.

But ultimately, every high school football player in the world would really like it if Alabama stuff existed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

So.

Sorry, guys.

You said a lot of money on fire lobbying Congress.

It could have been just listen.

Yeah.

Should have just listened to Uncle Andy and pretty much everybody else saying.

This is not work.

Should have listened to Uncle Andy S. Quirr.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No.

I mean, should have listened to Ronald Reagan when he said the most terrifying words in the English language or I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Like, yeah, you should have listened.

This is not rocket science.

And I think they thought that there would be enough funny duties in Washington that they would turn back the clock and they get to go back in time and to the, you know, to the Halcyon days when they could ban cream cheese and pretend like getting a couple hundred bucks was a was a major crime.

Like, get over it.

Figure it out.

You cause these problems.

You certainly deposit the checks.

You get to solve them now.

That's been your legislative update from Little Andy and Ari.

And I think Mrs.

Miles, my government teacher from high school would be super proud of me right now.

I think so.

Shout out and of Anna Hannah.

And that was my, my government teacher.

She was awesome.

I mean, do you remember any of the teachers he tests?

The only reason why I remember Mrs.

Miles is because one time I burst into her room during one of her classes and she yelled at me in front of everyone that said, Mr. Wasserman get out of this class right now, are you will not graduate?

Which I think is hilarious.

Mr. Hand from, yeah, times, you know, I had to like this TA thing where I had to like deliver mail to rooms.

It was one of my periods, my senior year, and I burst it into the room.

Then made a joke or something, handling the mail.

I was 17 years old and she goes, Mr. Wasserman, if get out of this room at once or you will not graduate.

And I thought to myself, what kind of, what power do you have to determine?

And whether I graduate based on this interaction.

Like now I'm thinking about it as an adult.

If her class was required, she failed you.

I think that probably could keep you from graduating.

Yeah.

It's a wild thing to say to a teenager for not being a dumb teenager.

Okay.

I'm going to take her side and I'll tell you why.

Because I know 38 year old Ari.

Yeah.

I know what inappropriate things 38 year old Ari said.

Yeah.

I mean, not even imagine how inappropriate 17 year old Ari was.

Yeah.

Kind of a class clownish kind of guy, but goofy.

But kind of a 40 do you have to stop me from going to college because I'm your teacher in a required credit that you need for graduation.

So don't mess with me.

I'm just trying to think like if she actually tried to follow through on that threat, like how that would go for her.

It will appear on your permanent record.

And back then, like that was like, that was like, oh my ***, like, you know, you're a kid that everything they say is so.

Well, they were back at it.

You shut your mouth, didn't you?

Well, it's funny because now my friends like still like to this day who are in the class will be like, get out of here or you're not in a graduate because it's kind of been like I'll run a joke.

It's lasted for 20 years.

We're all going to graduate to next week.

That's all I know.

Yeah.

We're all less than a month away from actual football.

Talking season is going to give way to practice in season preseason.

All the camps start next week.

It's going to be a lot of fun, Ari.

We'll talk to everybody on Monday.

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