Giants Talk: Why shutting down Logan Webb is worth consideration amid struggles
"Giants Talk" hosts Cole Kuiper and Alex Pavlovic recap another rough outing by San Francisco ace Logan Webb this week against the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Giants Talk: Why shutting down Logan Webb is worth consideration amid struggles originally appeared on NBC Sports Bay Area
Video Transcript
Hey, what's up Giants fans?
Welcome to another episode of Giants Talk.
I'm Cole Kuiper here with Giants insider Alex Pavlovic.
The Giants dropped the series in Pittsburgh but also land their first sweep of the season after completing June's series in Atlanta.
We'll talk about both of those and more on today's episode.
Before we get started, Giants Talk is presented by Mancini's Sleepworld.
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All right Alex, before we talk about the br- the, the Pirates series, let's go all the way back to June to finish off the Giants first sweep of the year.
They say it's not legit.
Elias Sports Bureau says this does not count as an official sweep.
Giants Talk disagrees.
I think we're gonna have to remind ourselves of this for like the next, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 years however long you and I will be doing this.
I'll be in a nursing home telling people- Yeah the Giants swept the Braves in '26.
When people are telling stories of the 2026 Giants and like the next version of us when they're looking up stats in some horrific season like 2052.
Yeah.
And they're like, "Hey it's August, the 2052 Giants don't have a sweep yet."
And they're going to be looking up stats and they will find this season and we'll have- The AI will spit out 2026 It w- We'll be like, guess what?
They did have a sweep.
They did.
They did.
Your stats are wrong.
And everyone knows it.
So I guess we should tackle this as a whole series, right?
I mean that, that is if we're calling this a sweep, let's, let's recap a series.
I'm saying Series MVP Luis Arias.
Okay.
Went five for nine with four RBIs.
Great series for Arias.
Good player.
Yeah.
Good player.
Not a Giant.
Yeah.
Luis Arias by the way has not been great in Philly.
He hasn't.
He's, pretty much all of his offensive stats are down.
Yeah.
Not down horrifically, but down noticeably.
Which is weird because it's a great place to hit.
Yeah.
But and I feel like I g- I apparently have seen every single one of his hits because - they were like all over social media the first week or two and, has not been great there.
Yeah.
Again, other big narratives, I mean basically I'm just focused on the fact that they swept.
I think it's a fun fact that Anthony Molina got to pitch for both sides having, two innings in the first game of the series as Brave and five inning.
Pitched great as a Giant in game three.
Yeah.
I was gonna say this is pretty rare but then remember like when Freddy Sanchez walked across the hallway?
Yeah.
So he seems to do that.
I was thinking that same thing and it's probably way more common for the trade version to happen than the- Yeah you know, trade plus giant gap in between.
Yeah.
A cool little footnote for him.
Pitched well so- Yeah he's got that.
Pitch i- he pitched better for the Giants in the series than he did for the Braves I think.
Yeah.
And I don't think we talked enough going into the, the last episode where we kind of previewed that one game, about how red hot the Atlanta Braves were coming into- Yeah that game.
It's, it's gonna be one of 1,000 weird parts of this season.
Mm-hmm.
Is that they played really good baseball against the Braves.
They've had some really good games against Milwaukee.
Have had some moments against the Dodgers.
So- Yeah .
But, the rest of it is pretty forgettable.
But they've- Yeah they've had some like decent moments against good teams.
But that's all- We'll break down at- All right at the end of the season kind of their record against good teams versus bad teams.
But I think it is going to be astounding to see how much better they were against first place teams.
Yeah.
I mean we've talked a lot about like the flip side of that, the Rockies part of this and you know obviously the Diamondbacks part of this and all that.
But I don't know.
I think at this point of the year we're, we're mostly evaluating but also just for this group like you can You know it, it is W- we have a mail bag question about like, which is a great one, about all the guys who are here and like what's next for them.
Mm-hmm.
This is a cool You know they get some cool moments here and there.
Like getting the- Yeah getting the Braves game.
As bad as that Tuesday night game ended up being at the end, like that's a memorable game to be a part of.
So these guys are living it out a little bit.
I guess that's a, a good a time as any to start talking Giants at Pirates starting with Tuesday's, I guess you put it good.
You put it really well.
Memorable ending.
I think you and I, we were talking yesterday called it the craziest game of the year in a, a season filled with crazy stuff.
Yeah.
We did a thing at the Gotham Club and I One thing we talked about was how in a normal year this would for sure be the craziest game of the year.
Mm-hmm.
In this season you could also like maybe pick out like three or four others that are- Yeah crazy for other reasons.
And then a, in a normal year this would be the biggest gut punch loss of the season- Exactly to come back like that.
I think it ranks third in the last like 10 days.
So.
That's the thing.
We're at a point in the season where gut punches don't really exist anymore.
Yeah.
Giants lose in a crazy way after a comeback and you're just kinda like, huh, wow.
Classic.
Then there's the ninth inning one literally a week before.
Yeah.
And then I, I thought, you know, the one Red Sox game they lost late where they blew the lead just given that that was like a, like a felt like a playoff game.
Yeah.
And that was, that one I think hurt more afterwards probably.
So it's weird.
This goes, this will go down as maybe like the tenth worst loss of the year.
Mm-hmm.
But, a crazy game.
You, you mentioned the Red Sox series and I talked after that series about how Logan Webb versus Sonny Gray.
The Giants get to Sonny Gray, on paper you think that's a guaranteed win and Logan Webb just didn't have what it took.
Here we are again this time in Pittsburgh and we have basically that same situation.
One of the best pitchers in the league on the mound in Paul Skenes.
Logan Webb on the other side and the Giant's offense gets to Skenes great.
That is textbook on-paper win but once again Logan doesn't quite have his normal stuff.
Yeah, It's been a rough couple weeks for him.
, he's gonna end up with the worst full season numbers of his career like there-- Yeah He was Like four starts ago his ERA was down at 3 point5 and I was looking at some of the, some of the advanced stuff and then looking at, you know, he had a chance to finish like third in the league in innings.
Mm-hmm.
Even with the missed time and I was wondering like I know one thing that he has thought has been pretty cool in his career is just being on Cy Young ballots even if you're not like second place just being in that mix and I was thinking like, "You know what?
The way he's pitching the first two three weeks of August," like he has a shot here to put himself in the mix where when people are filling out their ballots you have that fifth spot and you just kind go, "Hey, there's Logan Webb."
With- Yeah Third in innings and 2 point9 ERA and good advance stuff no longer is the case for his season and I, I think my main takeaway from that game is I don't know if Mark DeRosa's going to be managing Team USA the next time the World Baseball Classic comes around or whatever whether it's Olympics or whatever it ends up being.
Whoever is in charge of putting that team together was probably watching that game and just like horrified because its- Yep It is two guys who have --who were the co-aces of Team USA.
We don't count Scubal 'cause he showed up for like five minutes.
They were the co-aces of Team USA and whether it's connected or not they've had disappointing individual seasons so-.
Yeah And then they go and face each other and like give up 14 combined runs.
Next time the World Baseball Classic comes around and the owners get asked or the GMs residents of baseball operations get asked, "Hey can I play?"
They're gonna be pointing to this game.
They almost need the Olympic thing to happen because then it'll be so far beyond like it will b- Yeah You know, it'll have been like six years from this season where some of these guys And, I don't know what You know, Logan can speak on this maybe at the end of the year more accurately, but it, it's been a rough year for him and I, I don't think he's been healthy at really the whole year.
Yeah.
So one, one that I think he's probably going to be pretty eager to put behind him.
Well, it's easy to make the focus of that game Logan Webb but I guess we got to give some flowers to the offense who have two separate five run Innings in this game against the Pirates on all of that to come back and lose on a throwing error which again normal circumstanches -stances awful gut punch late 2026 just a laugher.
By the way, we've talked a lot about Buddy Kennedy when he was still here and what the role was.
Mm-hmm.
It was in part because he was more reliable defensively than some of the other options they had at third base.
Yeah.
Which we saw on Tuesday.
But yeah I think there was a lot of We don't have an official bright spots- In this In our rundown this week but there wer- No Turner Hill reaches base what?
Five times ?
Four times.
Okay.
Three or four times.
Devers hits another homer.
You just go up and down the lineup like Jonah Cox continues to do stuff.
Drew Kavanaugh had a good game.
He was the one who chased Skenes so I think for a lot of guys individually and in this series as well I mean Eldridge has the big night on, on a Wednesday.
You know I, I think individually a lot of guys had good weeks as they continue to build towards something.
And Devers certainly like homers in three straight games once again is up to thirty, thirty-two on the year so There were,There were bright spots.
Yeah.
Devers gonna end up with forty.
He's turning it on now at the end but I want to talk Turner Hill a little bit.
I wanna start this with a shout-out to a listener who gave us this mailbag question earlier in the year.
We answered in July.
AJ said, "What can you and Alex tell us about Turner Hill haven't heard his name mentioned before but he seems to be playing a lot of center field in Sacramento with really good numbers."
And then here we are.
He turns out to be like the guy.
He's been good and you know what my main take away and I don't remember if I mentioned this when we answered AJs question but just talking to guys who had played with him lik ethey were all like "Oh Turner Hills good".
Yeah.
Like they were.... That was the main reaction I got from his Triple-A teammates more than like people within the organization who were like, "We like this guy.
We want to see what he is."
But his teammates all really liked him when they were in Triple-A and obviously a lot of them were here already so that was kinda my main takeaway.
A lot of them were like, " Oh yeah, no ,Turner Hills We like him.
He's a good player."
Uh- yeah you know i-it's I, I think I've been doing this so long now that I'm so wary of any starting pitcher like I kinda need to see it like five times before I...'Cause we've seen--we've, we've al-all gotten so excited about small samples- Yup Different times and any pitcher I mean remember Daniel Suzuk was hitting eight hundred for like a month.So- Best player in the league.
Yeah so it does even with as much as like it, it as much information as there is about AAA players now you want to see more but I think he's really become like an intriguing guy because it's, it's a good approach.
Mm-hmm.
Like I think it's a you know he does things that the giants don't necessarily do like he's,he's I think he's really reliable with the runner on third like eh you know he's going to put the ball in play you know it's going to Its not going to hit a home run for you but he's going to get that run in which he;s done a few times already ah he just looks really comfortable up there.
Looks pretty comfortable against lefties and you know as somebody who played To AJ's question, like he was playing a lot of center field in Sacramento when they had other options there.
And we saw it in Tuesday night's game or, or Wednesday night's game.
If you have somebody like that in left field who can play center field, that makes the outfield defense better.
So he has raised his stock quite a bit I think.
And I, I know even before this trip, a couple weeks ago talking to some front office people, they're kind of like, you know, talking about next year's roster, and he was mentioned as someone who's-- they want to take a look at.
He has certainly taken advantage and- Yeah you know, he has another month, probably gonna get a lot of playing time here.
But I, I think, you know, of, of all the The season keeps going the way it's going, and things keep happening, and there's the, there still are walk-off losses and blown saves.
But a real positive of the last two, three weeks for me is these young outfielders who have kinda taken this opportunity without Harrison Bader, without Elliott Ramos- Mm-hmm and made the most of it.
And, you know, to the point that I, I think if you had asked me, if we had talked about this a month ago, do they need to go out and get outfield help this off-season, I probably still would've said no, 'cause pitching's so important.
But now I would just say absolutely not.
Like they- Yeah you know, they have enough guys to be totally fine next year I think with that group, and they can piece it together.
And Bo Davidson's on the way, and Dakota Jordan's on the way, and Parks Harbor can play some outfield.
So i- it's a pretty solid group all of a sudden I think.
I don't know what spring training's gonna look like next year, but the outfield position battle is going to be a serious story to be following in August or whenever.
Yeah, and I think the cool thing about that group is like, what is, what is the podcast we do every October?
Like, hey Giants insert name of president of baseball operations just said they need to get more athletic.
They need to run a little bit more.
Mm-hmm.
They need people to play better outfield defense.
Like, this goes back six, seven, eight years.
And you have this group of guys internally who, again, like the bubble could burst for some of them, but we do know that Drew Gilbert's been pretty good defensively, and he's been really good at the plate the last few weeks.
And Jonah Cox is excellent in center field, and he can run.
And, Turner Hill we see a lot of these skills.
So they might be able to finally have some guys internally who are like, "Hey, guess what?
We, this team can run a little bit.
This team can play some outfield defense."
You don't have to go sign somebody to do it.
It couldn't have happened soon enough.
Wish, this was years ago, but hey, here we are the end of 2026, and the team finally feels athletic.
Taking a look at Wednesday's game, Giants squeak out a win.
Honestly, this, this whole series was like one minor tweak away from the Giants getting swept.
Yeah.
Or, you know, they're a couple hits away from being the other way.
But- Well, flipping it from taking the series It, it was a, it was a real coin flip of a, of a series the whole time.
You know, it's one of those where you, you see, I think we've seen a few teams like this where you go, actually really evenly matched.
And- Yeah they're separated in the standings because the Giants have had the worst season imaginable- .
On every front.
But like, they're not There's all these teams you, you group in, like Cincinnati, Pittsburgh.
I, honestly I'd even put like Arizona and San Diego kind of in that mix even though they're backend playoff teams, where you go like pretty evenly matched when you look at them on the field a lot of the times.
There's just, Giants can't figure out a way to close out games.
Yeah.
And that's been the big difference, so.
We, we were watching the end of Wednesday's game together, and when Camilo Doval started having pitch com issues, the smile on your face- Oh Alex, it was like we were children again.
I was that What movie is that Leo meme from where he- that is the Quentin Tarantino one.
Right?
If I, I was Leo pointing at the screen when he started his inning with a pitch com issue, just like- Once Upon A Time In Hollywood .
I, I've missed this in my life.
Yes.
Camilo Doval warms up, and all of a sudden the pitch com doesn't work.
Yep.
Brought us right back.
Yeah.
It was good to see.
Yeah.
It's li- it's like he was doing a bit for the Giants fans.
Like, "Hey, remember this?"
Maybe just for me.
But yeah.
And then we got the, the classic grandparent in the stands watching their grandchild play for the first time in the form of Bryce Eldridge's grandmother.
Yeah.
The, the s- the studio truck was all over Grandma.
Cutting to her every chance they could.
Yeah.
And cool post-game interview.
Um- Yeah NBC Sports Bay Area posted that, on their social, on their Twitter pages if, if you missed his post-game interview.
But you could tell, like, it meant a lot to him to, to play in front of his grandmother.
Yeah.
So as it- Yeah.
It, it- As it would Kind of shocking she hasn't been able to come out to a game yet, so I'm glad that was able to happen.
Good for them.
Yeah.
So was nearby.
And then of course Thursday's game, just a classic nothing really to break down Giants loss.
They, they got behind very early.
Didn't have it, enough in them to catch up.
And next thing you know nine innings are over, five to two, never really had a shot.
Yeah, I don't really have much to say about it.
Just, you know, Tidwell struggles early, and then it's fine.
And then it's like, okay.
I- Yeah you're one big hit away.
Never got it, so.
I have a question for you as we kind of exit this series.
We saw Logan Webb struggle the last two outings.
Is it time to shut Webb down?
Now I know they're desperate just to fill innings.
It's not like they have the deepest, AAA starting rotation bench to come fill spots.
But if he's doesn't quite have it, I don't see any point in dragging this out and stressing his arm in any way.
That's a good question.
You know, I think it's a question that would have to be, and this obvious, would have to be answered behind the scenes by Logan saying- Yeah how does he actually feel?
This is two of the shortest starts of his career in his last three starts.
Yeah.
He's had tho- he's had nights where y- you know, he's had a lot of games where he gives up seven, eight, nine, 10 hits.
Like the singles f- those He's a ground ball pitcher.
So he's- Yeah had those nights.
It's weird seeing him walk guys with the bases loaded.
It's weird seeing him hit so many batters.
And just not being able to get through.
Like, he's so good at, at, at getting deep in the game.
So I don't know.
I, I don't really know the answer, to that.
I, I think it's up to, it's up to him and it's up to the training staff, and Dave Gustin has been with him his whole career and, and probably will be with him going forward.
And, I mean will be with him going forward as long as he's here in San Francisco.
So i- it's probably a conversation I think worth having, just, uh- Yeah I would say at the very least, like, probably shorten some of those starts and, you know, the weird thing about the lockout too is like some of these guys might be looking at next year goin' like, "I don't need to throw 200 innings next year."
So- That's true maybe going into next year it's not as big a concern as it ordinarily would be.
But- Mm-hmm it, you know, it's a guy who has thrown a lot for this team and, and, these innings just don't, you know, don't ultimately matter to someone like that.
I know he's competitive and he wants to be out there.
But, like, these innings are huge for like an Anthony Molina- Yeah .
Or Matt Wilkinson.
Like, for Logan, he's just trying to help the team and get through the MVP.
I, I'm sorry.
Who was that last guy?
Matt something?
Matt.
Matt Wilkinson.
I don't know that I know any players by that name.
I, I'm gonna sh- I'm gonna go the other way and just call him Matt all the time.
Tugboat.
Tug.
Tug will start this weekend.
So.
Yeah, I guess my only thing that I can't get outta my head is we're on almost a full season now of multiple Giants players admitting or at least being suspected of playing not at 100% for longer than they should have.
And I would almost just feel like it's time for the manager and, and Buster to be like, "Logan, you're done," You know?
Shut it down whether you want it or not.
Because all these guys are so gritty, they don't wanna be the guy to say, "I'm done early."
Yeah.
You know, I think one, one thing we've seen the last week or so is, and we'll talk about this in the mail bag, is how many guys have gone the 60 day.
Mm-hmm.
And it's kinda just like hey, you're Don't, don't worry about it.
Like- Yes you might think you can be back in two weeks, but, like, it's over.
Mm-hmm.
It, just relax, rehab, prepare for the off season.
I dunno.
We'll, we'll see when they come home.
I You know, they haven't named him the starter for, for, Sunday yet.
But that, that's TBA I guess.
But, we'll see when they come home and what they do.
I, I think at the very- Yep least he'll, he'll make a couple more starts, but you don't wanna throw too many more innings I don't think on that arm at this point of the year.
No.
That's fair.
That's fair.
that's the series, or rather the two series.
Giants take the sweep against the Braves, drop the series against the Pirates.
But we do have some Giants news in general.
A very exciting one.
This franchise that now has a Kent and a Bonds has added a Baker.
The Darren Baker of Giants fame.
We talked about it when he made his MLB debut that he should be a Giant.
He officially signed a deal to join Triple-A Sacramento.
I absolutely love this.
Yeah.
I mean, Dusty's son obviously.
And you know, you and I and most people are old enough to remember when we first saw Darren Baker get- Yup scooped up.
When he got his life saved during the World Series. . Scooped up by, by JT Snow.
Yeah.
So I It's cool for a number of reasons, but I First and foremost, like that Triple-A roster's been decimated.
So they're all in, they're all in the big leagues.
So they just, they need warm bodies.
And you know, you don't wanna rush guys through the minors to go help in Sacramento at the end of the year.
So this makes sense from that perspective.
27 years old, mostly a second baseman.
Played some left field.
He grew up in the Sacramento area, so this is not just him coming back to- Mm-hmm the Giants, but him coming to, coming home.
And I, I, you know, I There's a non-zero chance he like gets on the field this year 'cause they've, they've called up the whole River Cats team already.
So, we'll see where it goes.
He, he was, he was released about a month ago.
He's dealt with some injuries this year.
But cool story at least for the, for the next month, and gets him a chance to continue playing baseball here.
Yeah.
It's fantastic.
And then a couple of September 1st additions.
Zach Morgan and Caesar Perdomo added.
But not the names I think Giants fans expected when the teams in need of warm bodies.
Yeah.
I mean, the main one is, is Bo Davidson.
Yes.
And he's We got some, I got some DMs about him and, from what I guessed and from what I've gathered intelligence wise, this is weird to say about a team that has lost so many guys to injury and traded so many guys, but like they almost don't feel like they don't have the at bats for them right now because- if you look at the outfield, Jung Hoo Lee is gonna play.
He is one of the fewer few veterans who is healthy.
And then in center field, like you don't wanna take any time away from Drew Gilbert and Jonah Cox right now, and we just did five minutes on Turner Hill and they wanna take a look at him. .
So, they do have some guys they wanna take a look at here and- Mm-hmm .
And it's not a whole There's not an easy way short of taking those reps away from another young player to slide Bo Davidson in there every single day.
I, you know, we still have as of today 24 days left in the season.
Mm-hmm.
Would it shock me if he does get his cup of coffee and, and get a shot?
No, not at all.
But I, I think right now they want him playing every day, and they want those guys playing every day, and wanna take a look at those guys.
And honestly, I think that's totally fine.
Yeah.
I You know, he's There's a lot ahead of all these guys, and the most important thing right now for the young guys is that all of them are just getting reps and playing baseball.
Yeah.
All right, well Alex, we have mailbag questions from listeners.
We wanna preview the Giants in New York against the Mets, but first, Giant Stock is presented by Mancini's Sleepworld.
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All right, we've got mail bag questions from listeners.
As always, if you have a question for myself or Alex, go ahead and send it to us wherever you can find us on social media.
We'll add it to our list and address it to an up- in an upcoming episode.
Our first one is an update from Steve.
We made a request last episode for numbers on how long it would take Tony to lose To hit 81 losses as the manager of Tennessee.
Steve says, "Tony Vitello's average record at Tennessee over seven non-COVID seasons was 48.4 and 18.5."
It would've taken, on average, more than four seasons for him to experience 81 losses, which he has now, at the time of this episode, surpassed- Yes as the Giants manager.
So yeah, this season has to be grinding on him for a guy who does not like to lose.
And Rick added he lost 81 games in his last five years at Tennessee and won 31 overall.
So yes, to our point on the last episode about I think the losing has been the biggest adjustment for him.
Um- Yep yeah, it, it's certainly something new.
Yeah.
Dave says, "Okay, during the Pirate series, I noticed Jake Mangum was using Your Love as his walk-up song.
In my mind, that song belongs to Charlie Blackmon.
One of the most charming parts about going to Coors Field was hearing that crowd yell and sing tonight every time Charlie was up to bat.
So I guess my mail bag question is, can players claim a walk-up song?
Can a wa- walk-up song be retired?
There are plenty of good songs out there, and do you have any favorite walk-up songs that were associated with a specific player?"
You know, I think you obviously can't officially retire one.
I think you can unofficially retire one in the city.
That's the, the clarifying note, I think.
Like Timmy, Sergio, Brian Wilson, like those guys.
I, I don't ever need to hear anyone try to replicate that in San Francisco, right?
Like i- it- Yeah if they did, we'd all kind of be like, "Um, that one's spoken for."
So.
I was driving home during one of the, Pirates games, and I could hear Electric Feel, Tim LItskum's song playing at the ballpark, and I like had to stop and be like, "Wait, that's not right."
Who's walking out?
But at the end of the day, for the fans in Pittsburgh- Yeah that means nothing to them.
Yeah, I think I would s- My rule would be in city, in, you know, within the organization, have some feel.
You know, Friends theme song gone forever.
Yes.
Like that's- Absolutely ...but, but city to city, like Pittsburgh guy taking a song that was really popular in Colorado, no problem with that.
Yeah.
What about like Hall of Famer?
Does that kinda change it?
Like I think especially for closer music like Mariano Rivie- Rivera, Enter Sandman, that cannot be used by anyone.
But there are fewer closers.
You're gonna get how many- Right .at bat songs a game?
You know, at least nine on each side.
Closers- It's just- ..you get one every couple games.
I would think it was kind corny if someone who was like, like if Mason Miller was just like, "Hey, guess what?
I'm-" "I'm Enter Sandman."
" I'm," Yeah, "I'm running it back."
That'd be a little weird, but- Yeah ....yeah, I, I don't have a problem with.
There's, there's only so many.
I mean, there's a billion songs, but- Mm-hmm there's, there's songs that everyone likes and songs that make sense in those situations, so.
That's the thing.
I'd rather people are using the songs that make sense in those situations- Yeah than just like their favorite song that doesn't get the crowd going at all.
I mean, the flip side of this reminds me of the year when Happy came out.
The, was it Happy?- Oh gosh with Pharell song.
And every, every single team had one guy.
Yeah.
And it's like, okay, we're, we're The great Chris Haft who, uh- Yeah covered the Giants for a long time for MLB.com, he was so frustrated.
Like, I think it was Aaron Hill in Arizona who was using it.
Yup.
He's like, "All right.
We're so sick of this."
But yeah.
I, I, I, nothing comes to mind as like a, that song has infiltrated the league, there's too many guys using it currently.
Yeah.
What, the first thing that comes to mind for me wasn't a closer or batter song, but do you remember when the Giants were doing Who Let the Dogs Out?
Now, that would've been like 2000 after other wins.
Yeah.
And it felt so good.
It was so Giants, and then they lose in the playoffs, and the other team's, of course, blasting Who Let the Dogs Out- Yeah because every team in Major League Baseball was- Yeah using it.
There are the You know, I feel a little bit that way about Tarps Off, of like- Oh, absolutely.
Okay everywhere we go now I'm like, eh, too many places- Yeah is doing this, so yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Do you have any, favorite walk-up songs associated with a specific player?
I think we've done this on the pod before.
Uh- I don't even think it was that long ago.
Yeah, it was like not too long ago.
We, we should probably keep track of these things so we can direct- .people to a date.
I did love Charlie Blackmon.
Like, it was really good in Colorado, so.
Yeah.
Just 'cause it's front of, front of mine right now.
I think Michael Morse Take On Me was so cool.
So cool.
And it kind of bummed me out that it never really took off in San Francisco.
Like, he still used it, but the crowd didn't sing it like they did.
So that's kind of a b- Yeah.
I was in Washington when it, when he had it a couple times, and it was, it was good.
Yeah.
And of course Barry Bonds, Phantom of the Opera, The Next Episode by Dr. Dre.
Both of those were just incredible classics.
Yeah.
I think we did like a whole offseason podcast about this probably.
We probably did, and we'll probably do another.
We'll, lockout time, we'll run it back.
We'll run it back.
All right, our next one's from Steve.
Steve says, "I just watched O'Neal Cruz hit a routine ground ball to short.
Cost was playing up the middle and couldn't get there, resulting in a hit and two RBI.
Feels like this happens all the time to the 2026 Giants.
Is this a result of Posey shifting away from Farhan's analytics?
Is this a shortcoming of Tony's staff or just a symptom of a bad team and pitching staff?
Again, no hard evidence.
I just feel like I see many balls hit to traditional fielding spots but there's no defender there."
You know what's funny about this question is I had this thought while watching games recently- Mm-hmm that it feels like the Giants are finding the shift a lot.
Like they're-- especially like some of the guys going the other way like Eldridge and, and Hill.
Like, I was like, "Oh, they're getting a lot, putting a lot of balls through the infield recently."
So I do think this is just a little bit like eye of the beholder whatever you- Yeah how you feel.
I don't think this has anything to do with the front office changes.
They still are doing plenty of analytic stuff in the clubhouse and still shifting and doing all that.
A lot of it is just a lot of the same people too who were s- who were around previously.
The only, I guess the only connection I can make to this season specifically would be we know they struggled pitching wise and especially command wise.
There's a lot of guys who have struggled.
Yeah.
Three times in this series somebody walked a run in with the bases loaded so,- you know maybe that's a little bit of a not pitching to the shift as much as, as they have in the past.
I don't know.
But- Mm-hmm it's one of those things that's so hard to actually figure out.
Like- Yeah sort of just kind of having a feeling of being annoyed while watching a game.
Yeah.
Nicholas says, "With the recent pitching injuries contrasted against a pitcher like Malley changing scenery and seemingly figuring something out mechanically, is there any concern that San Francisco has a pitching development issue, particularly in the absence of JP Martinez who seemed to run the pitching staff with minimal injuries?
Maybe that's rose colored glasses, but JP seemed in tune with every guy."
I think there's a lot of different things here that i, I have different thoughts on.
One, we have talked about the pitching group.
Like It's not a comfortable feeling to see Tyler Malley go elsewhere and- Yes change his mix right away and be that good.
They do have some wins lately, like Carson Seymour has certainly developed over the course of the year.
He hit 100 in this series so like there's some, something there.
Um- Hit 100 on the walk off pitch.
We were joking the other night like imagine pulling him aside in the clubhouse and being like, "I know you're bummed.
I know everyone's moping-" Good " but hey nice pitch".
"Good job."
You know Trent Harris I think is gonna be a, a good win for this group and so that separate.
I, I've never gotten a good answer on the JP thing.
I thought he did a fine job and felt like he was mentioned a lot and well thought of.
They went in a different direction.
To the injury one, that I completely put to the side 'cause I just think that's bad luck and also just kind of- Yeah the reality in, in 2026.
And one, one interesting thing is like the giants haven't really had young pitchers come through their system the last few years because they've been so bad at developing guys.
So we haven't even really seen, like y- you're not going to see as many Tommy Johns from like the Alex Woods of world or the Ross Striplings of the world.- Mm-hmm than you are from young guys who are just kinda reaching their breaking point and throwing harder and harder.
And I, I did look this up cause I think we've talked about it.
You know The Dodgers are g- Like Yeah.
I was gonna say are you going where I think you're going with this?
They're the gold standard for everything.
Yep.
The Dodgers since 2021, Evan Phillips, River Ryan, Emmett Sheehan, Walker Buehler, Kyle Hurt, Tony Gonsolin and Dustin May had Tommy John.
And there might be more.
That was just an article I pulled up when like someone had it in '25.
Yeah.
And three of those guys had it in 2024.
So just kind of the way it is.
Yeah.
These guys are throwing way harder from a way younger age.
They're stressing their arms by the time they're in the big leagues.
It's it's weird.
But I will say!
The Tyler Malley thing is discouraging.
I mean Don't forget His last start as a Giant he got tagged for what?
Like five by the Padres?.
He did have some good starts with the Giants but just consistently was not good.
And I do - Yeah ....think when you look at like he's very specifically doing something different now.
Yes.
So.
Yeah.
Tim in Australia says, "Has there been a change in leadership role for Rafi Devers since a high proportion of the veterans have either been traded or are on the 60 day IL?
What changes can you see both within the team and Devers himself in this space?"
It seems to me that Tony has mentioned Rafi Devers in almost every press conference recently noting his leadership in his comments.
That is not incorrect. . That last part.
Which is weird to me because he also mentioned him a lot early in the year and always kind of made sure to mention him when he would -- You know and, and maybe a lot of this stuff didn't get out because it'd be pregame sessions, you know on the road somewhere.
But he always made sure to mention Devers with Willie and with Chapman and you know As Somebody Who Was A Leader.
I think maybe we're seeing more of it but also like that's just natural.
Like there's nobody around anymore.
Yeah.
So it'd honestly be awful if-- Not awful.
It'd just be a bad look like If we weren't seeing any of that right now.
Because you'd be like- Yeah ..."Hey you're playing seven rookies."
Like- Did not step up at all.
Yeah.
So it's, you know like Willie was the captain of the infield.
Mm-hmm.
Like you would see him kind of going up there to talk to pitchers and things like that and, and giving guys encouragement.
Like i-it's gotta be Devers now.Because it's- Yeah ...you have rookies all, all around him or inexperienced guys all or guys who have been here for a week all around him.
So I think there's that.
But I, I do think like one thing that I was really struck me in Boston was how For as much as he was booed by the fans How Much his teammates there seem to be really happy to see Him.
Yeah.
And people in general there who are on the field Really Happy To See Him.
So I don't think there's ever been-- It went poorly in Boston, but I, I don't, I don't think there's ever been any doubt that like he's pretty good in those clubhouses.
He's not a vocal guy certainly.
Yeah.
But like I, I think teammates have, have seemed to like him for the most part so.
Yeah.
None of this seems new or really surprising to me.
I think it is funny though, Tony mentions it quite often.
Like, "It's okay, Tony.
We know."
Like nobody's trying to run him out of town here, so.
Brandon asks: Luis Hernandez hasn't played in San Jose recently.
Is he dealing with an injury?
Yeah.
I th- it's like groin or hip or something.
Minor league injuries are weird 'cause we very rarely get actual info.
It's not serious.
I was there a week ago and somebody asked him when he wanted to be back and he looked at his manager and said, "Can you ask him?"
Like he wants to play.
Yeah.
They're So they have playoff games coming up.
Maybe he'll be back in the San Jose lineup for- Okay for their, California League playoffs.
But it's not a serious thing just, you know, being careful with a guy who is very important to the future and has also by the way played a ton of baseball as a 17 year old this year.
Yeah.
One more question, this one from Ryan.
Ryan says: What are the roster and personal implications for some late season call-ups, Perdomo, Lonsway Morgan et cetera, that were more based on necessity rather than performance?
No offense to those guys, it's a great opportunity for them, but will the Giants try to just run them through waivers when 40 man spots are required after the season ends?
It's a great question and I was gonna save it for after the season for like a off-season pod and then Keaton Winn went on the 60 day today and I'm like, "Okay, we're up to 14 guys-" Yep " on the 60 day," so probably should address this on the pod.
Personal implications, you know, they're getting dreams out of the w- like they're, they're achieving lifelong dreams so - Yeah there's that.
Um- Did we talk about that last week?
That like for some guys- Yeah you know no offense to them, but this is their big league experience right here in the end of 2026.
Yeah, and also just from a pure like, I mean look a lot of these guys are, these guys currently as we podcast are on a private jet to New York where they will stay at a very nice hotel in New York- Yeah and have a good time this weekend.
And eat well and play in New York and maybe go to the US Open or whatever.
So there's, there's all that.
There's also the element of just, I mean it's not life changing money but very good money to spend- Yeah a month or six weeks or two months in the big leagues at the end of the season.
These guys are, there's six figures involved there for a lot of these guys, so there's that.
From a, from the roster perspective, this is where it gets really interesting and i, i--There's going to be I mean there's going to be press release at the end of the post season that is- Two pages Like m-maybe three pa- like it's,- .
Depending what s-what size font they have.
This is gonna be-- They have 14 guys on the, on the 60 day IL currently and- Mm-hmm there could be more coming.
I went through to try to kind of figure out how many guys might actually be in a position where you kinda go like, "Eh, you know, you could see him on the triple A roster next year but also we can't carry him through the offseason."
It's actually a decent number.
They have two -- I also did this while watching a toddler so I might've missed some of the math here.- ...but I think generally this is correct.
They have a couple free agents left on the 40 man in, Kinzer and Brubaker.
There are gonna be some other guys who get non-tendered or, end up being free agents like Matt Gage for instance is older and had his rehab shut down.
There's guys like Tristan Beck and Spencer Bivens who are not currently here, and when there's a 40 man crunch it's not great to be in that position.
Yeah.
Currently they're like, "We're gonna look at everybody", and those guys are back in Sac.
There's other guys like Abner who we haven't seen yet, Harris who was claimed today, Whitcomb who was a recent claim.
Generally the recent waiver claims you can part with.
Yeah first on the list.
That gets to eight guys who I looked at and went like , And I-- And it could change.
Like you could, you know any of these guys could play well, pitch well.
Could be someone they've looked at for a while and wanted to claim for a while.
But just kind of looking at guys who maybe would be more towards the forefront- Mm-hmm ...of this.
But that still leaves like six spots.
Yeah.
And there's always like roster things we don't know about so and so was a free agent we didn't know.
So and so was Arb eligible and we didn't know.
But that leaves a lot of spots.
And then remember they have to protect guys from the Rule Five draft and if they do want to sign any free agents before the lockout which I assume teams will at least do some of that.
Mm-hmm.
You need those roster spots as well.
So, there are gonna be, there's gonna be a big wave moves at the whenever, I think it's within five days after the World Series.
There's going to be a big wave then and then there's gonna be thes-this trickle of moves of guys that we have seen in the big leagues this year who just Like this is just kind of the reality of using 60 plus guys and- Yeah ...so many of them being internal guys who got called up from Triple A. Yeah.
Gonna be a crazy November but yeah you're right.
In so many ways this off season super weird for The Giants but I hadn't really thought about what all these bodies up here means in this situation.
Yeah.
You know the, just like the reality of it for a lotta guys is there's gonna be guys who get DFA'd and then resign to minor league deals.
Yeah.
And, you know liked being Giants, liked being part of the organization, got rewarded in September so there's gonna be some guys who end up elsewhere but I think most of these guys will probably end up back.
You know either stick on the 40 man or end up back in Sacramento next year and get a chance to come to camp as a non-roster guy and all that.
But yeah ther-there's the guys in the front office who handle this aspect of it, it's gonna be a very busy few weeks because I can't remember seeing 14 guys on the 60-day IL.
Totally, totally.
All right.
That's it for our questions.
As we have been doing lately I'm gonna pepper in one Mike Krukow memory from a listener.
This one from Travis.
Travis says, "I'm not even a Giants fan but Mike Krukow was the voice of my childhood because of the MVP Baseball games on PlayStation 2.
My friends and I still say grab some pine meat to each other two decades later."
Always been eager to tune in whenever I got a chance to catch a Giants broadcast with him and Kipe in the booth.
What a career meet.
There you go.
Transcends Giants fans, Mike Krukow's career.
I don't remember if we talked about this, but that was one thing that stood out on the day it got announced was how many kind of national people and people in other cities you saw tweeting about like, "This was one of the voices of my childhood for a different reason."
Oh, totally.
I think if you were to add up all of the people who commented on it t- It's, it's closer to like two thirds Giants fan, one third MVP baseball fans than you'd think.
Yeah.
Just because of how many kids of our generation grew up with that game.
Yeah, it was very, very widespread.
Yeah.
Yeah.
all right.
Giants as you said are on a flight to New York to take on the mighty, mighty, mighty New York Mets.
Just a, a disaster of a season in New York.
A team that, spent big and was not rewarded by the baseball gods.
Yeah they were, I mean- You know you know, they were neck and neck with the Giants early on - Mm-hmm .
In terms of all of this.
They f-.
I think they, they went like 19 and 15 over a stretch or something like They played good baseball first stretch so they've, they've separated a little bit from the Giants and Rockies But early on they were, they were right there with them.
Yep.
Mets are 63 and 77.
That's last place in the National League East.
And, and I guess if you're looking at the National League in general, they would be right above the Giants in the pecking order.
Who do we have on the mound for these two ball clubs?
We have Matt Wilkinson.
Matt.
I don't know that man you keep saying.
Matt Wilkinson versus Nolan McQueen.
Anthony Molina versus Zack Thornton.
The, we w-, the TBAs here like throw me off.
It's,- Yeah.
TBA versus Christian Scott.
I'm looking at the Giants versus the Mets game notes and all that, and there's W- We've hit a point of the year where I mean, started this trip like at Pittsburgh it was, it was like TBA, TBA, TBA.
Every series almost is just hard to look ahead.
But anyway l- i- kinda know who we have.
Yeah.
Yeah.
on the Mets we has a few familiar faces including Sean Manaea and very notably Kai Correa one of the one time Giants manager Kai Correa.
Former giants manager.
Yup.
Probably expected this season to go differently when he,... You know.
I think we talked about him in the off-season just as a- Yeah.
How he got a real cushy role in New York City with a great team that was willing to spend.
Absolutely thought this was going to go different.
But also just like has been a manager in the p-- I mean interim manager in the past but has been- Yeah now very high up in Cleveland and New York And I Like if you had asked me a year, not a year ago, eight months ago, where would Kai be in 2027?
Like decent chance he would've been a manager somewhere.
Mm-hmm.
But he's gotten caught up in horrible, horrible New York Mets league.- So.
Yikes.
But we like Kai.
He was, he was great when he was here.
Friend of the podcast.
Good Giant.
Um,- Yeah .
Loved seeing him on the dugout railing next to Gabe Kapler.
Yet we're k- much very similar to the third game of the, the Giants Pirate Series.
Alex, I feel like there's not a ton to say about Giants Mets.
Two not great teams- Yeah .. Having bad years, not really fighting for much.
This might be the least amount of juice a Giants Mets series has had in- Ever ..... Oh ever, yeah, a long time.
Yes.
Like since it's You know, going to New York's always a big deal and this just feels kind of like Think everyone's like doing their fantasy drafts this weekend.
It's just Yeah.
We will be back to talk about it on Sunday but, um- Question: should Giants Nets be a bigger deal considering the Mets were like born from the loins of the Giants departure?
The orange comes from the Giants.
I don't necessarily think that.
I do think the wildcard game in New York is probably like lost to history a little bit because of everything else that happened in that era.
Yeah.
And I Yeah, maybe that specifically is like, like how often do we talk about that game?
Pretty much not at all.
Yeah.
And then y- when you think of 2016 not, that's not the game.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, so it's maybe that specifically like I, I It was phenomenal game.
Uh- Mm-hmm just s- a great baseball game, great crowd.
Was it Syndergaard Bumgarner?
Like it was a ton of fun.
Bumgarner just showing off.
Yeah.
He was in such a groove that at some point he like threw a baseball to his wife who was in the family section just like- Yeah just dealing.
I think your dad told this story that he like fell asleep on the team bus to- ..to Citi Field that day or something.
Like he was just relaxed but I guess that would be the only thing I say is maybe that game needs, needs more attention but- Yeah.
Because in hindsight see, remembering that version of Bumgarner pitching that game, it made that his, not complete collapse, but less than stellar outing against Chicago just hurt so much more.
Yeah.
And you know, it's, it's one of those weird things- I think he got the win in that game but still.
Yeah I think the, the funny thing about postseasons is like depending on how it finishes you Either get immortalized or you- Yeah.
You know, Connor Gillespie like could have been up there with Travis Ishikawa and not quite but like in a- Mm-hmm in an alternate universe.
Close-ish, but we remember that postseason for a different, a different reason so.
Yes.
Yes.
So yeah.
I think I can go through a lot of them.
The world was better when the Cubs were bad Alex.
Yeah.
But like I think of 2021 that way as well.
Like you, you always talk about Kris Bryant and like imagine how Well they might've re-signed him if they like went- They would've.
They absolutely would've.
It would've been a disaster and they dodged a bullet.
That's the question.
Do you take a 2016 World Series for the Giants if it means signing Kris Bryant to a blockbuster deal?
But oh five years later?
Yeah.
Yeah. .
If-- But, but I bring Bryant up as an example of a guy that like you, you will talk about how fondly you remember his time.
Oh sorry I'm thinking 2021.
You're right.
Yeah.
I'm all over the place right now.
Yeah.
But it's okay.
It's late night.
My Bryant suit.
But you always talk about how fondly you remember his time in 2021 with the Giants.
Yes.
And had they gotten through that series he gets remembered I think a lot differently 'cause it's- Yeah ...'Cause he was really good in that series.
Yeah.
And looked like he was one of the few guys who belonged so.
It's crazy how quickly that core of Cubs fell apart.
Like just- Yeah just became scattered to the wind.
It was like this, the end of The Sandlot.
Yeah I mean it looked like they were, like they were nationally everybody knew all of them.
So.
Yes these are guys that are best friends.
Yeah.
And then it's like not on- you know, Chris Bryant's in San Francisco like, "Yeah, I don't really talk to those guys."
Felt like Rizzo was doing TV pretty quickly after.
I dunno.
Yeah.
Yeah it fell apart pretty quickly.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
All right I don't know how we got off track talking Giants/Cubs.
We'll be back after the Giants New York Mets series here on Giants Talk.
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