Jason Nolf | The Bader Show (Ep. 494)
Jason Nolf recently beat Evan Wick at RAF, avenging a loss from a year ago. We dig in about a potential Olympic run but I wouldn't hold your breathe. He's coaching a wrestling club and using that experience to fuel and shape his business, Athlete's Ocean. 1:00 - Putting jiu jitsu to the side 6:00 - Wrestling in RAF 1 with 3 days of training 11:00 - Bo Nickal and timing 13:30 - Training evolution for RAF 18:40 - Nolf's unique entrances at RAF 21:15 - Rematch vs Wick 27:30 - Any chance at Olympic run? 34:45 - The older you get, the less you train 38:55 - Texas wrestling culture vs Pennsylvania 42:45 - Nolf Wrestling Academy 44:15 - Ocean Team Spaces 46:40 - Building his product around his needs 48:00 - Questions from friends 50:15 - Nolf tore his knee in match 1 against Dake in Olympic Trials 1:00:00 - How does Nolf use AI?
Video Transcript
Hey, what's up everybody?
Welcome back to another edition of The Bader Show.
I'm your host Mark Bader, and as you can see, we've got another in studio guest today.
It is three-time NCAA champ, an Olympic alternate, current RAF champ.
He's done a lot of things, Jason Nolf.
Jason, how are you today?
I'm doing good.
Awesome.
Thanks for joining us.
big weekend.
You just, you just came out and, and, and got a win over, Evan Wick at RAF, take the belt home.
You lost to him, and was it RAF 2?
RAF 1.
RAF 1.
Yeah, it was the, it was the anniversary show- Yeah of their first show this past weekend, so they wanted to run it back.
They were trying to get me to run it back for, like, since RAF 2.
They were like, as soon as I lost they were like, "All right, you guys gotta go again right away."
And I was like, "Well, let me, let me get prepared for the next time I wrestle him."
Yeah.
So I wanted to train a little bit, and I felt like a year was enough time, and I was like, "All right, let's do it."
Okay.
Yeah.
And one thing I heard you say is that, like, "I stopped training jujitsu- Yeah and I s- you know, doing more wrestling obviously."
W- when you moved here, I don't know, a year or, about a year ago maybe- Two years ago two Gosh, time flies.
Yeah.
You, you were down here doing jujitsu.
Last time you were on this show was at the other place.
You were in the gi.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, what was your How into jujitsu were you, and maybe what was your plan?
Like, were you like, "I wanna dive deep and, and compete, like, and climb"?
Or, or what Were you just having fun with it?
What was your kinda plan with jujitsu at the time?
Well, I kinda came in right at the top.
I already was competing against the best guys already.
So, obviously I wanted to just have a lot of fun match-ups.
I feel like with my wrestling background I'm able to, ha- have, obviously have an advantage on the feet, so it was just, like, working submission defense and then getting to my own submissions.
But I was probably training jujitsu maybe once or twice a week, for, I don't know, eight, nine months.
And, but I'd have to take some weeks off 'cause, traveling for wrestling camps or, or, whatever.
But yeah, basically, well, a couple things is I, I was had no intentions of wrestling, so I was like, "I still wanna be active, and train, and compete in something."
And jujitsu's a ton of fun.
Like, I wish I could train more jujitsu even now.
I had to limit it.
And I, I still go in every once in a while, they a- but I've only been there a couple times in the last, like, six or six months or ish.
But one thing is, it was creating bad habits in my wrestling because I wasn't moving my feet at all, because a lot of my submissions in jujitsu come when people attack my legs.
So I'd literally just be like, have I would not move my feet at all.
I would not And every- everything is standing super tall.
Like, I wouldn't get in a wrestling stance.
It would be more just, like, going for underhooks.
And so I felt like I was establishing some bad habits for wrestling that I wanted to get rid of.
And I, another thing is I wanted to actually, if I had time to train, I wanted to train wrestling because I hadn't had any reps in.
So now I was able to, like, for this last match I was able to go up to Penn State and train for a week.
I got Geno back in to coming and training with me at Westlake.
Tyler training with me.
So, you know, with my limited time, because I'm working on Ocean all the time, and then the kids club and, you know, everything else I have going on, I wanted to make sure if I am training, it's wrestling.
And then the third thing is I kept getting skin diseases and stuff d- training jujitsu.
For some reason I don't really get them in wrestling, but in jujitsu I was getting, like, stuff all the time.
So I, I would train for one or two days and then I'd, and I'd be off for a week and a half, and then I'd train.
Ah.
So, now I've been able to, like, train more consistently and just have a lot less problems, so.
Yeah.
And for a guy who, when I watch you wrestle, your feet never stop.
Yeah.
They're always m- you know, they're always moving.
And to think about jujitsu, you wanna stand still.
But, w- before you, you know, decided to com- start competing again, did you have, like, aspirations?
Were you like, "I wanna beat this guy"?
Like, setting goals or, "I wanna come to this tournament," and, "I wanna win, win this competition"?
Jujitsu?
Yeah.
I didn't really have that many goals.
I just knew I wanted to, like, go compete against the best guys- Yeah and, and have fun matches.
So I went against, like, Andrew Tackett, Ty Rotolo, Renato Canuto, Jed Hu.
I went against, like, a lo- Diego Pato, like, a lot of the, like, top 10 pound for pound guys in the, in the world.
And I was c- pretty competitive in, in all of my matches until I made a mistake and then m- got caught.
Um- Uh-huh but I'd, I had one win over Jed Hu, and then I had another, my debut was a win.
But yeah, I just wanted to I mean, I, I thought about ADCC obviously.
Yeah.
Because that was kinda If I wasn't wrestling, I would probably would've, I'd probably be doing ADCC this year, because it would've been, you know, an available competition, and I would've been excited about that.
But, yeah, I wasn't able to do it this year.
I still want to in the future, like, go back to jujitsu because it's so much fun.
I have just as much fun doing jujitsu as I do wrestling.
I, honestly, like, winning jujitsu matches is, like, more fun than winning wrestling matches because I've, I expect to win all of my wrestling matches.
So I go out and it's like, okay, it's business as usual.
Sure.
But in jujitsu I'm, like, kinda unsure what's gonna happen.
Yeah.
And if I get a submission, even in practice, I'm like, "That's the best."
You make somebody tap out, that's the best, so.
Is it something you th- like, you know, wrestling and jujitsu are different, and I feel like you can probably do jujitsu at an older age.
Yeah.
Maybe even competitively.
Is that someth- like, once you're, you know, I, I don't know, 40 or something when you're probably gonna stop wrestling, do you think you might go compete?
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
I'll probably compete until my body tells me not to compete anymore.
You fall off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Were you surprised at all?
Like, so you're, you're competing in jujitsu and training, and then RAF's like, "Hey, you wanna come do this?"
a year ago, and, and you lose to Wick.
And did you already understand those things about, "Oh, I had these bad habits from jujitsu because I didn't move my feet, and X, Y, and Z" or did it take wrestling in a competition to understand that?
Oh, I mean, I understood it a little bit before because I remember for the first RAF, so I w- again, they had reached out to me a couple times, so like, through different agents and stuff, and they were trying to And I'm like, "No," like, "I'm not gonna wrestle unless it's, you know, unless this is the, the situation."
And then, we finally just like, I was meeting with my agent, and we just figured out like that, it is something I wanna do.
And, and then once I commit to something, I'm all in.
So like, I'm all in RAF.
Like I love it.
Yeah.
I love the, I love the team there.
It's been a ton of fun.
Love coming out of the crowd and doing my walkout, and it's like, I loved watching WWE when I was a kid, so it's, it's kinda It's not WWE, but it's like you, you get to, like, put on more of a performance and, like, more showmanship than, like, typical wrestling where you go in, you get your hand, it's like all business.
Yeah.
This is a lot more fun.
And it's cool for the kids and everything.
But, yeah, in terms of, like, wrestling, when I was getting, when I was getting ready to compete for the first RAF, I went up to Oklahoma and trained with Mark Hall and some of the guys at, with our team.
And I w- like, I was just getting taken down from, like, everybody.
And I'm like, "I don't know what's happening."
What's going on?
I thought I was good.
And, yeah, I thought I was good, and I was like, "I've only been off for a year and a half," but I just, like, feel like I can't move my feet.
I, I knew that Wick had great shots and he was long.
But I just, I mean, I still thought like, "Okay, I just have to get on top once.
And if I get on top once, I can get to my gut wrench.
And then if I get to my gut wrench, it's pretty much over."
Mm-hmm.
Which I was able to do this last week, this last weekend.
Once I got on top, it was pretty much over.
So, yeah, I, I knew that, I definitely knew that I wasn't moving my feet very well.
But when I went into the match with Wick and I wrestled- The first one or the, the- The first one.
Yeah.
The first one, I, I realized I was, number one, I was shooting from way too far away.
I wasn't circling up after missed shots.
My head and hands defense was not there.
I was down blocking, like a couple of the shots he got to, you can see like my arm got in the down block position, but my head was high.
So like I need to have better head position.
It's just like these little things.
So now preparing for this match, I literally focused on, you know, circling up off missed shots, keeping my head and hands low, and then like setting up my shots essentially.
And those three things were able to get me the job done, so.
Were you surprised at all maybe after the first one?
Like h- again, super high level.
You beat Jordan, you're right there with Kyle to go to the, make the Olympics.
Like not how quickly you fall off, but maybe how, how quickly you don't stay sharp- Yeah or at that high level.
Did, did that surprise you?
It did surprise me, yeah, 'cause I, I mean, I always, like in my mind, I'm like, "I could not train for 10 years and then still- still go and, and make the team."
like at least that's what I, that's what I thought.
And I, I still think that if I, if you gave me I mean, I, but I will say like I literally trained maybe three days for that first match.
When you say trained, just like getting in there and wrestle hard, wrestle live?
Yeah, I only r- I, I think I only wrestled hard once before, before- Define wrestling hard.
For you, what does that mean?
I was doing, did a couple live goes.
Uh-huh.
But before that, I, I, I don't think I, I didn't do any practices in Texas.
I went to Oklahoma and trained twice there.
One day was like a live day, and one day was like a normal day, and then I went to RAF.
So like- I literally had no, no training basically for the first, And I was coming off of a, I had a staph infection too.
So I was like on antibiotics until, basically until I got to Oklahoma.
So I wasn't able to really train.
So I think that if you get, like if you I did, I d- I guess I trained a couple days at Penn State, like two days, a couple weeks before that, and I felt pretty good.
But just mainly I need to be in shape too.
That was the other thing.
The first match I wasn't in shape at all.
Like I hadn't done any lifting or conditioning.
So for the past year now, I've been lifting, doing conditioning.
I feel in great shape.
I feel like I'm moving well.
And I honestly feel like just as good as I was.
I actually just watched my match back with, Burroughs a couple nights ago, just to see what I looked like then, and I did look a lot better then I think, I think I was- Like the way your movement and the- Yeah, my movement your whole movement.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I was like amped up for that match too.
So, I don't, I don't know if I'm quite moving like that, but I think that, I didn't move like that in every match I was wrestling back then either.
Only against him really.
Okay.
So yeah.
I, it is crazy how Yeah, but I, I was not happy with that loss for sure because, because I had beaten Burroughs and had, you know, been really competitive with Dake and beaten all these other guys when we won the Croatia tournament.
So to lose that match, that stung pretty bad.
Yeah.
Well, I think it just goes to show that like you can't have t- a f- a foot in this one and a foot in that one, right?
Yeah.
I remember like when, when, when, Ben Askren started fighting, he came back and wrestled like a year later, and he, you know, he leapfrogged everybody in '08 and won and was kind of established as the man, and then he came back and wrestled the Sunkist or something and lost a match or two.
Yeah.
I was like, "What?
He just beat all those guys."
But it's like you can't- Yeah you can't do both.
Do you think maybe this is kinda what's, what's happened with Bo Nickal?
Like he, he's so damn good, and, and I, and, and not to take anything away from McInelly, but I think peak Bo versus where McInelly is today is like Bo, Bo should win.
Yeah.
But he's, he's wrestling some and, and- Yeah, he's mainly- full-time fighter fighting on, he's mainly training MMA.
Yeah.
I mean, he just, he had like a, I don't know what he said, like a six-month camp for the White House guard, so he was preparing for that.
Yeah.
I mean, McInelly is very good.
Yeah.
And he, he wrestled, Bo.
He had a good game plan.
Wrestled like defensively and, shot in when he got to the legs.
When, when Bo started threatening him, he just let go of the legs.
So like- Yeah it was hard for, I mean, but I thought Bo wrestled good.
I thought he wrestled hard, like he attacked a lot.
Especially the last like minute and a half.
Just I think just his timing isn't- I guess what it used to be.
Yeah.
Because I, I agree.
I think that, you know, Bo in 2019, somebody asked me who would win, Bo in 2019 or Bo now, and I was like, "Well, Bo was, like, fully training back then, and..." but Bo's bigger now, too.
So I still think when I wrestled with Bo when I was-- I wrestled with him a couple times getting ready for this match, and he still felt really good to me.
He, he honestly felt, he, he feels a lot bigger for sure than when we used to wrestle.
But his technique and everything, I think that Max just got that, he got that shot and took him down, and then Bo wasn't able to get to his attack.
So I still think that Bo can, like, beat those guys and- Yeah you know, if he, But Max is super good.
Like, he's one of the, he's just won nationals, and he's young, and he's strong, and he's athletic, so.
Yep.
Yeah.
I think maybe it's the timing, right?
It's like these, you just gotta be in there every day, and the, the more you're off, the more it's just like off by a hair.
Yeah.
And then two hairs, and then, like, just, just a touch.
Yeah.
Yeah, the timing makes a big difference in wrestling.
Like, timing's everything.
Yeah.
And I feel like that was the same with me is my first match, my timing was terrible.
I'm still getting it back a little bit, but I'm starting to feel better and better- Yeah as I'm competing.
So your training, your, th- like, the training for the first one was, like, a few days in Oklahoma and maybe one or two days in Penn State.
What was the training like for this one, this last match?
'Cause this is your sixth match.
Sixth match, yeah.
So I've been, ever since, so I didn't really train for my first two RAF matches 'cause I wrestled Wick and then I wrestled Andy Varela, so I was like, "Okay, I'm not gonna train as much for that match, 'cause I should win."
and then my third match was to be against, I think, Sal Khazanov- That's tough or something.
He ended up getting sick, so I wrestled somebody else.
But, so I was, I, I really started my training then, and I was doing, I started a new lifting program, that's been really, really great.
I have been training probably twice a week, wrestling two to three times a week, and then with Tyler or Gino or whoever I c- when, when Miles was here, I was able to train, train with Miles.
Now he left me for Stanford.
But yeah, just getting, like, j- before, before, like, I would just coach and I would wrestle with my high school kids, but now I'm bringing guys into practice so that when our kids are going live, our youth kids or high school kids, I can wrestle, too, against, like, some of these better guys and get pushed and just making sure that I'm A- and I, like, write my own workouts, so I'll say, okay, like, depending on who I'm wrestling.
So for this camp, it was, like, all, like, again, down blocks, head and hands position, circling up off, off missed shots.
If I was wrestling somebody that, had a great underhook, I would be, "Okay, we're spending a lot of time, like, clearing underhooks to score."
Like, not letting the guy get you underhook.
And then, you know, down block reattach, sh- two shots to score.
So, like, I have, like, usually, like, seven or eight positions that I'll, like, play through with whoever I'm training with, and then we'll do, like, a, a match, or we'll do, like, four two-minute goes or something like that.
And as long as I feel good, like, I try to push myself as hard as I can in those practices 'cause they're only about, like, 40 minutes typically.
Mm-hmm.
My workouts.
So doing, like, 40-minute workouts maybe, like, two to three times a week.
But, I'm also doing my, my strength and conditioning, which is probably even bigger factor 'cause my timing is getting pretty good again with wrestling.
I just have to make sure I can keep moving the entire match and be in good shape.
So that's really what my training looks like now.
And then, yeah, just whenever I can, I train essentially.
Yeah.
How similar or different, I'm, I'm sure it's somewhat different, right?
You, there's not a coach, there's not a team.
It's like you're in charge of you.
Yeah.
H- and I don't know how, how much autonomy you had at, at Penn State, m- especially more, I'm guessing, as you, as, as you got older.
But how similar or different is training yourself rather than having a coaching staff and, and a team?
And do you like one better than the other?
I mean, it's just, it is what it is, but.
I like having coaches for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's better to have a coach.
For me, I'm just, I basically just try to look back, okay, what, how do we run practices at Penn State?
Or when I go back, how, how are they running practices?
And then I try to, like, just basically mimic that and put myself, like, 'cause we'll g- you know, go through a couple positions and then, you know, get our heart rate up with a drill or whatev- whatever it is.
I mean, they do something different every day, so it's hard to, like, like, say exactly what they do and even, like, run myself through exactly what they're doing.
So I usually just try to put myself in the positions where I think I need most work and just spend time there, and then get my heart rate up and go hard a- and just wrestle tough guys.
'Cause honestly, like, that's, that's one of the biggest parts of it is just you get at Penn State because- because you wrestling, like, national champion level guys every day.
Yeah, everywhere you look.
And young guys, world champions.
So when you, the more you can wrestle with those types of guys, like, that's, that's really how you get good.
It's not necessarily, I mean, the practice plans and everything, like, making sure that kids are excited and coming in, and you're not getting, like, and you're not running yourself down, that's important.
There's a lot of i- important things and, we actually, like, we build with Ocean, we build practice plan templates and, curriculums for our, for coaches, too.
So that's definitely important.
But having high-level partners is probably even more important.
So that's made a big difference for sure.
Sure.
You talked about you do, like, maybe 40-minute practices here, which is just you and one other guy, and it's so focused on, on me and what I need.
Yeah.
Is that shorter than you would normally do at Penn State- Yeah I'm guessing?
Yeah.
They're b- like, Penn State is usually, like, an hour and a half.
Mm-hmm.
Like, hour and 15 to an hour and a half.
But again, they have to cater it to l- a lot of different people.
30, 40.
Yeah, 30 to 40 people.
So they're trying to work through different positions and stuff, where I feel like for me it's efficient.
I can just get in, get what I need to get, and then get out.
Yeah.
And, and I feel fresh.
Like, I, it keeps me excited.
Like, it, I do a lot throughout the day that's, like, like, mentally draining sometimes.
Like, just like- Just, like, work and, like- Yeah, work thinking, using your brain.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just using my brain, working, and then, also, like, h- also, like, running my kids, kids club, and then thinking about, like- I just have a million things going on, so like I wanna be able to just go in, feel good, get what I need, and get out essentially.
Yeah.
And it, and I've- it's been working, so.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
Efficient.
That's a- Yeah that's a good word.
Now, now y- you brought it up, your, your entrance.
Yeah.
Or what, you know, y- you're like- Yeah you're sit- it's great.
You sit in the stands, you got the hoodie up, and everybody's like, "Where, where..." I know it's coming now.
Yeah.
Couple questions.
How'd you come up with that, okay?
But like when do you warm up?
How, you know, when do you stop warming up?
When do you go sit in the seat?
Like, you know, so I don't think you're there from jump street, but like one match, two matches?
And most guys will like wanna pace, and you just, but you're just like cool just sitting and just, just waiting.
Oh, that's hard.
It's hard to sit still.
Yeah.
I like to, I typically like to pace too, but I love the show.
Yeah, I, I, I usually, so it depends on who my warmup partner is.
So I warm up with David Carr.
We started, you know, warming up around the first match, because he was fifth.
So, we started just moving around during the first match.
During the second match we, we like, basically got our heart rate up, did like a quick drill maybe like three minutes, and then did like stance and motion stuff, and then I was pacing back and forth.
I, I sat down for a bit, was relaxing for like probably a match, and then when it gets to like when I'm in the hole, which was when he was wrestling, I start pacing back and forth r- really for like two matches straight honestly, 'cause I'm ready to go.
And then right after the match ends before me, they, they sneak me up into the stands.
So I'm only sitting there for probably like four or five minutes- Okay during the, the break.
And then, yeah, I go out.
So it- it's, I definitely don't like sitting still with my head down, 'cause they want me to sit with my head down and my hood up- Who wants you?
So nobody sees me.
But the one kid in front of me did see me and he was just like, "You better win, bro."
"You better win, bro."
He kept saying it.
I'm like, I wanted to punch him in the head, but- Ah.
It was funny 'cause I was just sitting there and I'm like you don't tell somebody that's getting ready to compete that they better win, bro.
It's just- No but he's a little kid and he didn't, he- Like 6 or like 12?
I didn't see him.
He sounded like he was like 10 or 12, yeah.
Yeah.
Sounded, sounded like that.
Better win, bro.
Yeah.
And I was like, and, so, but yeah, I typically will pace back and forth, get in there, and then, you know, sit there for a couple minutes, and then I love it.
So they actually wanted me to put a Browns, hoodie on, but I said no.
I said absolutely not.
Why did they want you to put a Brown hoodie on?
We're in Cleveland.
Oh.
So- Brown yeah, the Browns.
You're not a Cleveland fan?
No, Steelers fan.
So I was like- It sounds like I, I struck a- Yeah struck a nor- nerve here.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I said I'd wear a Steelers hoodie, but I didn't want the, the whole crowd to be against me- Yeah either.
So, I like when the, the crowd's cheering for me.
Yeah.
So I'm not like a, a villain in there.
Okay.
So, were you confident this one was gonna be this much different, this match against Wick from the first one?
Yeah, I was confident it was gonna be different for sure.
I d- I, always know that I can put up points, so like even in the first match I put up eight points, but it was more just about like not letting him put up points.
Yeah.
So I was planning on wrestling and just picking my spots a little bit better, instead of just kinda going out and like, I think when you expect matches to be easy, they become harder, especially when you like hit adversity.
So like the last match with him I expected it to be easy and, just kinda go down and take him down and turn him, and he caught me, he caught me off guard, just reattacks, and he was fast and strong.
He's, he's much better now than he was when we wrestled in 2021 too.
Yeah.
You know, he's a, he's a real threat, and his hand fighting is really, really good.
So, I just knew like, okay, let me just take it easy.
Let me like feel out the positions and then pick my spots to attack.
And, I still got to his legs like pretty easy when I, when I wanted to, which was good.
Just I protected my legs a little bit better.
He had a great reattack on me.
I was able to kick out.
And then in the third period, I don't know what he did.
I think he just fell over.
I don't, like I tried to rewatch it, but the angle, camera angle was weird.
But I think he went for like a, like a snap or something and he just tripped, and I kinda just took advantage and then got on top and turned him.
So I knew that it was gonna go different, but I also didn't know how because he is so good.
So I was just, just trusting in, trusting in God and trusting in like, the way that I prepared this time better 'cause I was like, okay, last time I didn't prepare, and it was close, so I prepared this time.
I should be good.
Yeah.
That treetop on the edge, were you, were you trying to get four?
Were you just trying to get him out of bounds and get one, or just see what happens?
Yeah, just see what happens.
Sure.
ideally, yeah, I wanna get four.
Um- It worked out but, yeah, and it, it worked out, 'cause if he turns down I probably just get one.
But the first single leg I got on him I was, you know, I shelfed it on my hip.
He straightened his leg out, so when guys straighten their leg out to defend, I bring it up, and then I usually trip and get a easy takedown or just try, like in the past, so my previous RAF matches, you see I like, I basically when I get the leg I sprint to the edge because I wanna make sure I get points and, and then I try to like finish it on the edge.
Mm-hmm.
But when I do that, I don't get a chance to get on top and work my turns because I'm always finishing out of bounds even if I get the takedown.
Mm-hmm.
So, my nose is really itchy today.
Don't know why.
Probably allergies around here.
Does that mean, does that mean anything?
Does that mean anything?
Allergies are coming.
Um- Cedar fever.
Yeah.
So, the first time I got to his leg, I was like, okay, let me try to finish, let me try to finish in bounds, and he's so long and he just grabbed my hands and pulled his leg free.
I'm like, oh, are you kidding me?
I was like, I should've just pushed him out.
So the next time I got to his legs I was like, I'm not gonna try to finish in bounds.
I'm just gonna, you know, especially when we come up to the feet.
If I can finish on the, on the ground behi- like backside, then I'll do that.
But once we got to our feet, I was able to, and not only, you know, get my hands underneath his ankle, but I try to get my hands a little, little higher- Mm-hmm so that when I shove him it's not just like the closer you can get to his body the, the farther you can send him.
So, I was able to get to like his calf area and then, and then send him and get the four, and that was a really good feeling because it was- Like 10 seconds left in the, five seconds left in the first period.
So to go into the second period up 5-0 is a lot different than going in 1-0.
Yeah.
And I don't know if it just worked out or if you timed it this way, but you, you, you happened to shove like right when he jumped or s- you know, he planted, and then his foot came up and it didn't have time to come down again.
It was just like, whoop.
Yeah.
And, uh- It was probably instinctual.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I, I can like, when I'm wrestling, I can feel when somebody's gonna jump and, I don't remember thinking about it or anything.
Yeah.
Probably- But it was probably just my body took over.
Makes sense.
So now you're the RAF champ.
Yep.
At 175.
That's his middleweight, right?
Yep.
Yep.
And you're wrestling next month in just a coup- two months I'm wrestling in- Three weeks?
Yeah, a week, week and a half.
Tell me about the next match, what you know, Konev?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Konev.
Ismail Konev.
He's, really good I guess.
I haven't actually watched any of his matches yet.
Yeah.
Um- Will you?
Yeah.
I was talking to Pyles and I told him to give me a, a scouting report.
He will.
Christian and Caleb.
So, yeah, I don't know really.
I don't have any idea what he does.
I just know he's like undefeated this year and, has been smoking everybody, so he's gonna be a tough match.
But he's young.
I think he's 20.
He just won the U20 Worlds.
So I think that, you know, having a little bit more experience and age, that's gonna, benefit me.
But at the same time, like, I was wrestling with Jaden James and PJ Duke when I was at Penn State, and they're like insane.
Yeah.
So I'm like, just because they're, just because they're young kids doesn't mean I can overlook them at all.
So he, he can be just as tough as, I mean, you see Bo Bassett's beating the senior guys.
Like- Yep he can be just as tough as like, as a 30-year-old.
So I gotta go and be prepared and, but I'm excited.
I, I think, I feel, I feel like it's gonna be a good match.
We're wrestling at 180, not 175, so it won't be for the belt.
But I only weigh about 177, so- No kidding I imagine he'll be a little bit bigger than me too, so, but he wrestled 74 kilos last year.
Should've brought the belt in.
Should've brought the belt.
Yeah.
But, um- Yes so yeah, I think he'll be a little bit bigger than me, which is, you know, everybody that I've wrestled.
I guess Joey Blaze wasn't bigger than me.
But you know, Wick's obviously a, a giant.
Yeah.
Um- Oh Minto is bigger than me.
So nothing new.
I- Yeah I, I train with big guys, so.
How often would you like to wrestle with RAF?
I wanna wrestle at least once a month, so.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
12 times a year.
Yeah.
10 to 12 times a year I think would be good.
I'm wrestling, I'm trying to wrestle, I wrestled last weekend.
I'm trying to wrestle Moscow.
I have a match for that.
And then I'm gonna try to wrestle Miami in two weeks after that, and then Vegas two weeks after that.
And then I'm also gonna try to wrestle in Chicago.
I don't know if that's been announced that they're doing a Chicago card, but.
They're doing a Chicago card, folks.
Yeah, I'm not gonna tell you when or where though, so.
Okay.
You knew this was gonna come up.
Everybody's been asking, like, is there any chance, and I know, I, I think I've heard you say probably not 2028, but like, is the door open?
Is there a crack for Jason Nolf to maybe get a wild hair and wanna pursue an Olympic run in 2028?
No, I don't think there's any cracks in that.
Just focusing on RAF, and yeah, I mean it like if, if, I guess like- Johnny Dijulius is telling us we should bully you.
Yeah.
Trying to get an online community- Kyle Snyder bullying you into it.
How?
Kyle Snyder and Johnny have been bothering me about it.
They're like- Oh I was like, 'cause I always say like, if I'm gonna go back and train for the Olympic trials or to train for the Olympics, like- Mm-hmm I wanna like actually train for it.
And my current, the way that I currently live, like I'm not able to really do that, like take it as seriously as, as I did whenever I was, you know, at Penn State full-time because it's hard to find partners like here.
And I have so mu- so many other obligations and responsibilities that it's, it's just hard to do that.
And I don't have my own facility in Austin either, so I can't just go in during the day and, and work out.
I have to like work around practice hours and- Yeah it's just tougher.
And then they're like, "Oh, why don't you just go train at Penn State or Oklahoma State or wherever it is for a f- for a few weeks?"
And I was like, "Well, then I'll have to leave my club kids," and you know, I wanna help them get better too.
So I always say like, if I, if I was gonna do that, I would wanna prepare for it and train because of pride essentially.
Like I don't- Yeah wanna go out and then like not put on a good performance, or like, you know, not be in shape or whatever it is.
But, also like Kyle said, just do what you're doing right now and you can still go and, and do it.
He's like, "Just, just keep ru-" Johnny said the same thing, like, "Keep wrestling with kids and, just go enter it, and then you just have to wrestle."
So I think I could do it, but again, it's like my pride is getting in the way a little bit too.
Or c- if somebody told me like, "Yeah, all you have to do is enter and you'll, and you'll make the Olympic team and go win the Olympics," like yeah, I would do that.
But like, I'll- That is all you have to do.
That is all you have to do.
I know.
But you have to do it.
You have to do it.
Yeah, like it's not like, it's not guaranteed.
Yeah.
So, I guess like, and I just put out like a, a, it's a, it's a tough balance when you're, when you're dealing with this kind of things because you don't wanna have ego in sports.
And like, I just put out a post so like when you compete with gratitude, "Hey, I have the opportunity to go accomplish this thing."
Like it's such a great, great opportunity to go wrestle for the belt in RAF.
Like, or like if you're, if you're training for the Olympics, like, you know, it's a great opportunity to do that.
But, and, and if you have ego, then that can, that can, limit your, potential essentially because if you don't enter because of your ego, then you definitely aren't gonna win it.
But so it's kinda like a fine balance for me that I have been thinking about.
But it's like, why do I, why would I wanna win the Olympics?
Is because, well, one, it was, it w- it was never a goal of mine really growing up to win the Olympics.
I only wanted to wrestle in college.
I never planned on wrestling after college.
And I started wrestling- Why did that change?
In, like, 2016, yeah, whenever Frank made the Olympic team, I thought it was really cool.
Yeah.
And I was training with him, and I was like, "Dang, I can see my..." And then, like, got David Taylor and all these other guys who were, like, making a living wrestling, so I'm like, "Okay, I wanna wrestle after college and maybe coach," 'cause it sounds a lot better than going to another six years of s- medical school.
So, I guess, I, I, I don't really know where I'm going with this, but, you know, whenever, whenever I'm training What, what, what were we talking about?
I lost my train of thought.
May- maybe go to the Olympic, but, you know, can't quite do it here with this setup in Austin is- Yeah what we're talking about.
Yeah.
So I, I, I just, I don't really know.
Like, I don't really care.
Okay, I was saying, like, why, why do I wanna-- why would I wanna- Yeah go to the Olympics?
It's because it sounds cool to say that you're an Olympic champ.
Like, and you kinda get the glory, and, like, But, oh, 'cause I was saying it was never really a goal of mine, but then it became a goal of mine, so, like, to reach that goal would be cool.
But I also stepped away from, from international wrestling because I was ready to be done wrestling, and it wasn't as fun for me anymore to, like, go wrestle in the trials and go wrestle in Croatia and do all these things.
Like, it just wasn't as fun.
RAF is actually a lot of fun, so it, it's like a s- a big stage.
It's like a, like, it's almost like a party, like a celebration when we're- Yeah, it's an event.
Yeah, it's an event.
Yeah.
Like, that you're, that you're a part of, and that's exciting and fun.
And yeah, some, Like, I didn't step away from wrestling because I didn't think that I was g- that I could win.
Like, I think that if I kept wrestling, then the following year I think I would've made a world team.
But it's easy to say yet I didn't do it.
Yeah.
But, like, you know, Dake and Burroughs were both gone.
They were up.
They both went up.
Yeah.
And Wade the following year, so, like, if any, if there was any time, that would've been it.
I didn't stop wrestling because I didn't think I could do it.
But, you know, so I s- so I, I wanted to do other things in my life, and, you know, I wasn't really willing to, like, prioritize wrestling anymore.
So that's kinda why I stopped, and there's no real reason to, to go back now and go training for the Olympics because the only reason I, I would do it is more just, like I don't, I don't even know.
To say, "I went to the Olympics."
To say, to say I went to the Olympics and- It's the prestige of it.
Yeah, the prestige.
So- More than, like, maybe what it's for you on the inside.
Yeah.
Yeah, like, I don't really care to do it that much.
But, like, again, it's weird because if somebody said, "Oh, you can go in the Olympics.
All you have to do is do it," then I'd be like, "Oh, well, that sounds good."
Like, I would like to be an Olympic champ.
Yeah.
So But it's just m- I don't know.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
I don't know if that makes sense.
And, and, and is there, like, And I think they probably, I don't know this, but I feel like they probably do a good job at Penn State of taking stress off of the athletes, right?
But still, like, training for the Olympics versus, like, getting ready for some RAF matches, it feels like there's, like, a difference in your lifestyle, maybe the stress or, whatever you wanna call it.
Well, I know that, like, I just know myself, and I'm like, "Okay, if I'm training for the Olympic trials, like, I'm gonna switch up my lifestyle, and it's gonna, it's gonna affect other things in my life that I'm doing."
Even though people are saying to just keep doing exactly what I'm doing now and just enter the tournament, I know that it would change things.
You want, you wanna do it differently- Yeah for that.
Yeah.
I'd wanna do it differently, and I'd wanna spend more time.
I w- just wouldn't feel as good, and I'm not really willing to do that, so that's why I'm not, probably not gonna do it.
So.
Not even a tiny little crack?
There, I mean, there's, there's always a little crack.
I mean, you never know.
Yeah.
But yeah, I don't, I don't plan on it at all, so.
Dane Rutherford was done.
Yeah.
I'm just saying it's possible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I was done, and then I, I literally had no intentions at all of wrestling again ever, and then I came back, so.
But when you, when you retired, RAF wasn't even a thing, right?
Wasn't a thing, no.
Yeah.
So I had no idea.
And then it just became a thing all of a sudden.
And I remember talking to Kyle Snyder, and he was, he was gonna, he committed to doing RAF.
And I was like, "Oh, that sounds, that sounds cool."
Like, I wish, I wished I, they had that when I was training.
And, and I was like, "I would've been, I would've been all over that," 'cause, you know, it's a great opportunity.
But then they got me anyway, so.
Yeah.
All right.
Maybe, maybe s- s- staying on the training topic a little bit because I remember, I think it was last time we were h- you were here, or we were at the other building, but you were like, "Yeah, high school wrestling was so hard, and the training and the pra- college was easier."
Yeah.
You know?
And then d- so it's like, d- does it Not easier.
I, I don't You can define it, but does it get easier as you get older?
Maybe not in the Obviously, the competitions are s- gonna continue to get harder, but, like, how hard you have to train or, or the, the intensity at.
E- explain, you know, you said high school was harder than college.
C- c- take that comparison, now compare college to senior level.
Yeah, I think y- the older you get, the less you train.
Yeah.
Just because your body I, I feel like your IQ is continuing to go up wrestling-wise, like, especially the more experience you have and the more you're competing, so you're t- you're gonna be better technically.
And, you know, the more you train, it, it just, like, depends.
Like, how, how is your body feeling?
Like, are you running yourself down, or are, are you feeling good?
So, like, I try not to lift n- or wrestle on the same days I lift now, where when I was in college, like, I would do that, even senior level.
But, like, now I'm like, if I'm lifting, like, I'm just gonna go out and lift, and then I'm gonna wrestle the other days, and just kinda, like, prioritize, like, more recovery and stuff.
And I think that Yeah, I mean, I just think the older you get, the, the less training you probably need.
And if you continue to overtrain, then y- you probably start to see some injuries and stuff.
But when you're a kid, you don't really need recovery.
You need to train as hard as you can as many times a day as you can.
So, and then a- a- in college, like, you still wanna train a good amount.
And then senior level, you mean, you're still training.
Like, at Penn State, there was really no difference between college and senior level training.
Basically do the same practices, all the time.
Now, what I'm doing now, I just don't have enough.
Like, if I was living at Penn State, I would still do what, what they're doing for the senior level.
I mean, I'm only 30, so, like, I would be just training for the senior level stuff, same, same schedule.
But I think that I can get away with training less even still, like, doing what I'm doing now.
Even if I was there, I think I could train a little bit less and still, like Get maximum value out of it, essentially.
Maybe not, maybe not 100% of the value, but like 90% of the value, like enough to where, like for what my goals are right now.
Have you ever, do you think you ever over-trained, or were you ever, did the coaches ever have to pull you back?
We would, like we would go sneak into the Penn State room, like when I was a freshman and we would train at night.
I know, I was there one time.
Yeah.
I saw you guys.
Yeah.
They're just waiting outside like- Yeah puppies.
But I was like, I think I was a red shirt that year too, so like it was not, not as big of a deal, but during, like when we started actually competing, the coaches were like, "Hey, like you guys shouldn't be coming in and doing like extra workouts and stuff."
And then I was just like, "Okay."
I just trusted them.
I don't think I ever over-trained.
I, I trained crazy hard in high school, and then, but I don't think I over-trained because I think I needed to do that.
But to some people it might feel like they're over-trained, like I'll have some people in the club like, "Oh, I gotta, I'm feeling run down today.
I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna do this one practice," or something.
And I'm like, "Okay."
I never said that when I was- When I was growing up, I never missed a practice.
But, so But we also, at my club, we train six days a week, so they can I, I was doing probably, I was probably training, I was training six days a week.
I was doing two practices six days a week, so yeah, it was a lot.
Never taking practices off?
No.
Looking back, do you think maybe you should have?
No.
No?
No.
No, not when I was a kid.
You didn't want to?
Because I needed, like it was honestly like building like my mentality.
It was like no matter what's going on, we're not missing and we're prioritizing.
We're going all in for this one goal that we have, and what, do we wanna be great or do we wanna be average?
And you know, I, I decided to go all in and it, and it was terrible.
Like, I didn't have fun doing it, but I'm glad I did it.
Yeah.
'Cause it built a lot of like, like values in me.
Yeah.
Built, built my foundation.
Now, now, you know, think about y- you growing up and wrestling and the culture in Pennsylvania versus what you see now here in Texas.
It's gotta be vastly, you know, it's generations of dads and uncles and like wrestling rooms in your basement, and here we don't have basements and they don't have probably wrestling rooms at home.
It's just like, what do you see as the difference or h- you know, just compare maybe the culture here versus the culture in Pennsylvania.
Yeah, it's way different.
The, most of the kids in my club, like their parents didn't wrestle, so they don't even know like what's going on, so they only know what I t- what I tell them and I teach them.
So I actually have a gr- a lot of really great parents that are great with their kids, which- Not a cr- crazy dad.
Yeah.
Not- They're not, they're not like crazy wrestling parents, but a lot of times, like sometimes you need to be a crazy wrestling parent like for your kid to like get it and like to like really be something great.
'Cause like my dad was, my dad was tough on me, and if my dad would've always just been like, "Oh, good job," like, "You had good effort," like whatever it is, like maybe I wouldn't have been as good.
But it's also like, so it's like a, it's a tough balance because you want, you want the k- parents to be tough on their kids, for sure.
Like you want them to expect them to give full effort and full atti- full attitude, but you also don't want them, like valuing themselves based on whether they win or lose.
'Cause like I have, like I had a kid competing in the RAF finals this weekend, and he was like, like before we go out compete, he was getting nervous, but he's a great kid.
And I was like, "Hey, you got this.
Like just go wrestle.
Be yourself."
He goes, "This is just for fun, right?"
And I'm like, "Yeah, it's just for fun."
It's just for fun.
They all are.
Yeah.
They're all just for fun.
Like it's, yeah, he's on TV and he's like that's the biggest like stage he's ever been on.
Yeah.
You know, but he's just like, "It's just for fun."
It's like, yeah, we're wrestling just for fun and that we, we stress that.
You know, we're not, we're not gonna like call you names and, you know, we're not the type of team that like puts each other down.
We're always lifting each other up.
Like e- even if you lose like and you didn't give a g- good effort, like I'm gonna handle it a different way.
I'm not gonna scream in your face, like But in Pennsylvania, that's how people handle things, and Pennsylvania g- does get results.
But I think that we can change th- like I, I, I'm a, I like being in Texas and Austin because of the challenge of, it doesn't have to be that way.
Yeah.
Let's, let's create- It's a blank slate.
You can- Yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be that way.
We can still be great and be great with our kids and not be screaming in their faces and yeah, be tough on them, like expect, you know, a certain level, a, a certain standard.
Hold them accountable.
Where you k- hold your kids accountable, like if they're not working hard, if they're goofing off or messing around, like yeah, let's, let's get on them and you can get, and you can, you know But we're not screaming in their face, swearing at them, doing stuff like that.
So, I'm trying to change the standard and the culture here to where we can, we don't have to do things the way that the people do it in Pennsylvania.
And there's a lot of great parents and, and you know, people in Pennsylvania as well.
But, it is also hard 'cause I'm not like, I don't yell at all, so like even in my practices, like I think I'm yelling sometimes, and I'm like, I'm just talking normally.
But I try to talk with like a, with a tone- Mm-hmm to like get, get their attention and j- get them to focus and do extra.
And you, a- as with any club, like you can have, young guns, you can have kids that just don't want it, and they just kind of go and they go through the motions.
And you know, you're not gonna get every kid to, to like go all out.
But I can already see I have seven, eight, nine, 10 kids in my club that are going all out and that really do want it, and that are putting the effort in and doing extra and, you know, doing, you know, what I want them to do.
So you know, I have 100 kids in the club.
If 10 guys are doing that and those 10 kids become really great- Yeah like that's, that's awesome.
But I wanna increase the number and just create a, create a certain standard and have, you know, leaders in the room that can lift others up as well, so.
Is there anything about coaching or about the club that maybe has surprised you and you're like, "I thought I was th- thought this was gonna be the way, but actually I had to sh- I had to do something different"?
An approach or I don't know.
I don't know.
I mean, I knew it was gonna be tough because basically all of my kids started with me, so like they d- they started wrestling with me.
Yeah.
They didn't, they didn't have any prior wrestling experience, so just teaching them, fundamentals.
Like, I, I, I talk about fundamentals all the time.
Like, I always thought like I want my team to be doing Winn Dixies and all this crazy stuff, because it's fun.
Like, we can be like separate ourselves there, and I think we can eventually, but I ha- I've spent most of my time just teaching head and hands defense- Hands, head position you know, down blocks, re-attacks, like, being tough, how to like So i- it is like one of the biggest challenges is like, and we've, we've solved this with Ocean, but it's just trying to figure out like what does our team need to work on?
So like I'll track them at their competitions, what are they struggling with, and I'll make a list, put it on Ocean, and then I'll, I'll go in and, like I'll build my practices u- typically a week in advance.
And then every practice is like deliberately put together.
Like if like, hey, what are we doing, for our review?
What are we gonna, what drills are we gonna be doing?
I'm not just slapping random drills on there and random moves.
Like I have a, I have a detailed plan for every practice, and why I wanna do it.
Like, so I think just, you know, I guess one thing that surprised me is the amount of organization that's needed, the amount, the amount of like a structured system that's needed that most coaches don't have.
So that's, once I've been able to, implement that, then it's made a big difference.
Is that now, i- are you implementing what, what you're doing on Oceans, and are they blending or, or are they kinda feeding each other?
Yeah, they feed each other.
So like Ocean is really just, like so we have team spaces, and that's really just a system that coaches can f- can, utilize to, to set up their, their program and the way that they wanna do things.
So we have like our calendar with practice plans.
We have, like they can upload their videos.
They can live score matches.
They can, you know, they have a lifting program.
So you have all the resources, all the technical resources.
They get 16 instructionals, and then they can build their practices.
The, the system that's worked for me at my club is having me and my coaches kinda, like, meeting just like, real quick and just saying, "Hey, what are the positions we wanna work on?
These, if we look at our Ocean calendar, like these were what we were struggling with.
Okay, let's work on, you know, these three things."
And then one thing I do is we do like four to six-week like system, like programming.
So, you know, "Hey, what do we wanna work on the next four weeks?
Okay, leg riding.
Let's get really good at leg riding."
So w- that doesn't mean we're doing leg riding every day, but we're spending a couple days a week working and reviewing on leg riding and making sure because if you show one move, we show power half or like a leg riding series one day, and then we don't touch on it again for three weeks, and then we touch on it again three weeks after that, like- Starting over the kids, yeah, you're just starting over every time.
But if you do it every day for, for two, three weeks, like the kids are gonna get really good in that position.
And now when we wrestle, like if you watch our club wrestle, a lot of our kids are great leg riders, and they, and they win a lot of matches just by like getting legs in and turning guys.
So, that's just one example, but you know, just having a system.
And instead of like when I first started with the club, I would literally just be going to practice and be like, "Oh, I know how to coach wrestling.
Like I, I, you know, wrestled and I was national champ, and you know, I, I know how to teach technique."
I do know how to teach technique, but I was just literally just on the way to practice trying to figure out what I was gonna teach, and I'd be like, "Okay, maybe I'll teach like single leg finishes today."
Mm-hmm.
And then the next day I'd be like, "Okay, maybe I'll teach, you know, standups," or like whatever it is.
Yeah.
So now like having a system that, that we can put onto Ocean, all of my kids can have access to the, to the login and, and they have their own login, so they can go in, see what we're gonna work on.
They can see the videos we're gonna be working on, and it just makes a big difference like organization-wise.
So basically you're- Yeah using your own product to help your club.
I mean, they're, you have a- Yeah wrestling club and you have a, a business, but they're like meshed.
We basically built this product because, uh- Out of need?
Because of the need, yeah, that I needed, and I knew other coaches needed, too.
So, yeah, so they, and we're, every time I experience a new challenge, I'm like, or the coaches do, and we get feedback from our coaches, it's like, okay, how can we, how can we, use Ocean to make that easier for you guys?
'Cause we're really just trying to help like coaches be successful and set up like their, their system.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, we'll quick pro- plug here.
Yeah.
How, you know, if people want this help, what you're talking about, how can they get hooked up with Ocean?
How can they find you- Yeah et cetera?
Yeah, you can go to athletesocean.com/teamspaces, or if you just go to athletesocean.com, there's like a little team button, and you can learn more there.
You can book a demo with, you know, with me or Cade or, one of our, one of our, reps and show you how it works and see if it's a good fit.
Okay.
So.
Awesome.
I love it.
All right, next thing I did, I posted, a just little picture on Instagram yesterday, so we'll take some fan questions.
So who's got questions for Jason?
Um- We gonna do the underhook question?
You can go on that.
So let's- I don't know what this was all about.
This guy was going on, on Teva was all, all, all about head position underhook.
You, you wanna say about this?
He doesn't wanna, he doesn't wanna hear my answer.
So I've seen, I've been watching these videos, and this guy, Tevi is his name?
Teva?
Teva?
T- T- E- V- A. Teva.
Teva?
we'll call him- Te- We'll call him Tevi.
Tevi.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like him.
Yeah, so he's saying that he made a video that you should have head position, inside head position with your underhook, and then Abid Jalil said, "That's absolutely trash.
You should not have head position.
It's better, actually, there's more scores if you don't have head, give them- The other guy has head position?
The other guy has head position.
And then Trent Heidle commented that he never has head position.
With an under.
Yeah.
He lets guys get head position.
You know, you see like Yazdani and Sadicaov, all these guys, like they give guys head position.
I'm a big Whatever works, works- Yeah type of wrestler.
Like, there are scores from head position.
I prefer if I have underhook for my opponent to have head position on me.
So I like keeping like And, and you saw like a video of Jordan Burroughs, he was teaching, at the, at the RAF.
He was teaching like if you can keep your head like on top of their head and you, and you have your underhook, I feel like you have a lot more options to score from there, and you can push a little bit better.
But there's risks for, for both sides.
But I prefer to have my head on the outside, I guess.
Head on the outside.
Blow my mind.
I haven't like sat down and studied technique lately.
Yeah.
But yeah, I was always taught under- You gotta have head position.
You gotta be- Yeah.
Yeah.
Just good.
That's what that guy was saying, too.
And I think that you can do that.
Yeah.
Like if I- Well, I think like you said, whatever works, works if I'm trying to do like underhook high crotch, I want head position because I feel like I can like Like, I don't like taking my head from one side and then I have to beat their head and go all the way to the other side.
But for if I'm trying to push or if I'm trying to knee pick or throw by, like I like h- giving the guy head of inside position, so.
But again, you see m- probably you see more success with the, with the head on the outside than the head on the inside, but, I think either can work.
But that would be my vote.
All right.
Yeah.
Cool.
Next question, from Brenner wrestles 138.
If you could redo one match from your career, from Kids Club through Olympic trials.
If I could redo one match, I mean, I would like to the, the 2024 Olympic trials finals against Dake, I would try not to tear my knee.
Tore your knee?
Yeah, tore my knee, uh- Was it?
In which match?
The first match, like his first shot, he hit a sweep.
And, I just went ankle whizzer, and I actually, I like never Most guys don't sweep to my right leg.
I, I don't usually, 'cause I lead left leg most of the time, so guys get to my left leg more.
But I went to hit ankle whizzer and just like tore my MCL, in the, in the first match.
He heard it pop and everything, and that's why like- He did?
Yeah.
He knew, and he didn't I mean, I'm not saying like I would've won the match or anything if I But I would've liked to like wrestle healthy in that match.
So I probably would've just d- did a better down block or something.
You wr- And that was the first, and it was a, right, it was a two-match series.
Yeah, yeah.
But I basically, I mean, at that point it was so hard to do anything.
I had no balance really in the first match.
Second match I had my knee all taped up, so I had a little bit better balance, but it was still just super tough.
That, that, that wasn't fun.
Um- Have you experienced anything like that before?
I guess seriously?
Yeah.
Yeah, wrestling Vincenzo.
Well, I guess.
Yeah.
Oh, go ahead.
Wrestling Vincenzo at the Bill Farrell, I tore my MCL as well.
Actually same knee, happened a little bit different.
But wrestling, then I tried to wrestle Eimar in the finals, with it, 'cause that was to make the Olympic trials- Yeah the year before.
Or that w- I would, I think that was 2020 when that, when that happened, so.
But yeah, I think that But I will say like I believe that everything happens for a reason and, you know, it all happened and, you know, it put me where I'm at today, and I mo- maybe if I had won the Olympics that, like that year or be- went, went on to beat him and, you know, won the Olympics, maybe I'd still be at Penn State and I wouldn't have moved down here and, you know, had all the things.
So, like I w- in reality I wouldn't actually go back and change anything because everything is a learning experience.
Like, even when you fail, like you're learning.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
so it, I hate losing for sure, so like if, if you could say like, like I never wanna lose again, but I know that even if I do lose again, that it'll be, like it'll be all right because I learn from it and, and figure out.
Like I, I really hate that I lost my first RAF match to Wick.
Probably take that one back, too.
Sure.
That one didn't have as much like impli- implications as much, though.
It was more just like a, a fun match.
And, but yeah.
So any of those.
Man, was any po- w- w- in that first match with Dake in '24 when you, you hit that whizzer and you're like, crack, you feel, feel it on your knee.
Were you just like, I guess Was it just like, "God, there's gonna be no way I can win," or was it like, "I'll tough it out and see what I can do," or like, "That's can't..." I don't know, how does that affect your, your head, your psyche?
It, it, it does a little bit.
I mean, I still, like I never quit, so I never thought like, "Oh, there's no way I can win," because I was like, it was more just like, yeah, I gotta tough it out and just try to figure this out.
But it's, I knew, I knew it was gonna be tougher for sure because I couldn't, I could barely stand on it.
I actually defended his gut pretty good, so he got, he got the takedown and I think he had a, a tight gut, and I was able to defend that.
So I was like, "Okay, let's go."
And then I, I stood up just couldn't, he was just, he's super hard to get ahold of, Dake.
He's like evasive and stuff.
And then like I'm like kind of stumbling over my own feet.
So I felt, I felt really good going into that tournament.
So to kinda like, and like, and then I was like, okay, let me tape up, and I was getting work, and my body was just a little beat up that, at that time.
And, but I did my best, so yeah, it's all good.
All right.
Didn't know that.
got another one here.
Do you think Penn State will win the national titles every year between now and 2030?
2030?
Yeah, I know it's a long way.
What year is it?
Right now it's '26.
Well, g- going into '27.
'27.
So '27, '28, '29.
Four.
That's a good question.
I don't know.
I mean, it, it, I would say it's either them or Oklahoma State for the next four years.
Seems like it.
They're both, yeah, they're both super tough teams.
It's always hard to like bet against Penn State just because they're so loaded.
No kidding.
I actually don't, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know how they have so many guys that stay and like that they do a good job of like not, not letting, n- not, not not letting people transfer, but like convincing- People wanting to stay yeah, people want, getting people.
But at, at the same time, like you say, why people wanna stay at Penn State, it's like that's where you're really gonna reach your potential Even if you're not competing necessarily, like you're gonna become the best wrestler because of who you're wrestling with.
But O- Oklahoma State now has a lot of They have a really good program now too, so like if you go there, you can get really, really good too.
They're, they're already having a lot of success with their young guys.
So I think that if I had to, if I had to bet, I pr- I don't think I would bet that they would win every, every year for the next four years, but maybe, maybe I would bet that they would.
It's, it's close.
I'd say it's probably 50/50.
All right.
Just 'cause they have, Oklahoma State has a good team, but I think that Penn State definitely can do it, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
Yeah.
A lot of talk about this too, would you like to see that duel happen?
I would love to see the duel happen.
Yeah.
I don't know, I don't think it's gonna happen, this year.
No, it's definitely not.
It's definitely not happening this year.
I mean, unless- Yeah something crazy changes.
Yeah.
But I could see it happening in the next couple years for sure.
Yeah?
Yeah.
All right.
I- Would you talk to some, have your people talk to somebody?
Yeah, I'll have some, have some people talk.
Yeah.
But I, I, I would lo- I would love to see it happen.
Yeah.
It would be, They should m- they should build it up pretty I mean, it'll be built up big- Yeah if it happens.
Yeah.
No, that would be great.
I know David wants it.
I don't, I don't think that the Penn State coaches wanna do it, obviously, or else they would be doing it.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, they, they I know what they, they say we, we make our decisions on does this help us win nationals?
Yeah.
And that's, that's question number one, and I think that's a good question, 'cause whatever they're doing it's wo- it's working.
Yeah.
And they're winning.
I mean, they I, I'm not I don't think that wrestling the match makes them not win nationals any more than wrestling it would.
I just think it'd be a fun match.
Yeah.
'cause people make a lot of adjustments mayb- and yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't think that it I mean, we've always wrestled tough matches.
I wrestled- Yeah.
We, I mean, we wrestle in the Big Ten schedule, so we're already always wrestling.
Like when, when I was We wrestled Ohio State in, the 2018 when we had to- That was awesome beat them.
Like we wrestled Iowa the other- You didn't ru- you, that, you were hurt for that meet, right?
I was hurt for that.
Yeah.
That was awesome.
But we always wrestled the best teams.
Yeah.
And we still won the nationals, so I don't think that I think, yeah, it's probably just like, I don't know.
It's, it's easy to say that too 'cause they're not in our conference, so it's like, oh, we don't have to do a- another.
But their, their schedule's already tough, but is it really tough?
Because the Big Ten I feel like isn't as tough as it, as it was, as it used to be.
Maybe it is, I don't know.
I don't know if it's not the Big Ten's not as tough or is Penn State just like separated the gap to where they're- Yeah, they're just- taking these good teams and making them look- Yeah you know, single point.
Yeah, they're not having as many.
Hard.
There's not as many close matches like as like what we had when, when we were on our, our team.
You guys were really good.
Yeah, and we were really good.
So I don't think, I think that wrestling them would be just fine, and it wouldn't, it wouldn't hurt them.
Okay.
Well, we'll make some calls.
Yeah.
So.
Lock it up.
Yeah.
Really, I, How about this real quick?
Did you see U20s?
I didn't.
Under 20s.
I- Did you watch much or catch much clips of it?
I didn't watch.
No, I saw clips.
I saw clips but- Anybody impress you?
Yeah, I mean- We, we kicked ass USA.
Yeah.
USA impressed me.
It was cool that we, we had 10 medals.
Yeah.
And, yeah, I mean, we had what?
Seven in the finals or something.
Something crazy.
Yeah, so that's pr- I mean, that impressed me.
I mean, I think that it just, like young, our young guys, our young team is like they're coming.
They're, they're super tough, and when you're, when you're older, when you're an older guy you're like, "Oh, that guy's young.
Like I sh- I'm not gonna lose to that guy 'cause he's younger."
But now it's like you have to take like the young kids seriously like if you're, if you're USA rep 'cause they're coming, and they're, they're really good.
Seidel is super good.
Bo Basset's really good.
There were, there were some guys I didn't even know.
I never watched them wrestle, and then they just went and like won the worlds or took bronze or whatever.
So it's cool to see for sure.
Yeah.
I think it, it- Yeah, super impressed and as guys like you have clubs and, and there's countless others who are high level wrestlers who are now teaching the, the youth, I think that, that translates up to a big reason why we're having so much success.
Yeah.
U17 and, and on up.
Yeah.
Yeah, and then even with like RAF too, like, the kids being able to watch RAF and like be like, "Okay, that could be me someday," being on the big stage and wrestling in front of thousands and thousands of people and like having a, having a fun time, like that's getting a lot of my club motivated to like train harder and, and better.
So I'm sure it's doing the same thing all around the country, and the more opportunities as y- as When you're a kid, if you see more opportunities, like that's why I never, I never saw oppor- when I was a kid, I never saw opportunity with Olympic wrestling.
I was like, "What, what is Olympic wrestling?"
Like I didn't When people were doing the Save Olympic Wrestling, like that was when I, I was like I didn't really probably care as much because I didn't even, wasn't even going to wrestle.
I didn't even know anything about freestyle.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, I just, as long as I can wrestle in college, I'm good.
But then you start to like, when you have an Olympic dream then you're like, "Oh yeah, that's actually a big deal" - "to save Olympic wrestling."
So, but now the more opportunities that kids are having, even with like NIL and, you know, RAF and, you know, the Olympics, all, all these things, it's just gonna get more, more kids excited and training harder at a younger age.
I have a, a really good group of jujitsu kids that are, that are great wrestlers, and they're great, great at jujitsu too.
I'm trying to like convince them like, "Hey, let's put more time into wrestling."
Uh-huh.
Because, uh- Oh jujitsu's always gonna be there.
You can always go back and, but you have like a, a period of time in your life where like wrestling can be like really, really beneficial to you, so.
Dude, I was, I was watching RAF, and I had my two, two daughters and we were watching, and the, they, my five-year-old goes down the hall and she drags like her beanbag soft type chair in the room.
She sits down and she's watching it, and then the next thing I know like she, she's running across the room tackling it, like- Yeah sprinting at it, and then she's like, "Dad, I wanna wrestle."
Yeah.
And then we're on the ground wrestling.
I was like, "This is cool."
Yeah.
She's, she's into it.
She was trying to kick my butt.
That's basically how I got into wrestling too is like I loved watching WWE.
Heck yeah.
And I was hitting frog splashes on my sister.
I was like- I was like jumping off the stairs and like landing on them, and it was like And my dad's like, "Okay, no more WWE for you, but we'll put you in wrestling."
We'll get you into, uh- Yeah.
PJWs.
Yeah.
Sweet.
Um- All right, just kind of one last, one last deal here.
This doesn't really even have to do with wrestling necessarily, although maybe you use it with I don't know.
But, this is just AI, because AI's creeping its way into the world.
Do you use AI very often, and if so, how?
I use AI every day.
We use Claude, with Ocean.
So, you know, if I have to really, I use it in the terminal, every, every day pretty much, just talking to it, like building spreadsheets, doing audits.
Like, we'll have, like, our demos for, with, with coaches and just saying, like, getting results.
Like, what are the, what are the results percentages?
Like, I can, instead of having to, like, manually go in and check and, like, check what, what stage everybody's in, I can just say, "Hey, like, run an audit on..." And then you train the AI on, like, on the skill, and then whatever skill, like, you'll have, like, your own, like, agent that's, like, working, and then you can basically just have them do all the work for you.
So, I use it for, for taxes.
I can just basically import all of, like, my, my, the PDFs of, like, my bank statements and then say, "All right, ask me questions on, you know, if you, if you don't understand, like, what a, what a transaction is or a deposit or withdrawal is, just, just ask me and I'll tell you," and then, like, build it out and, like, that way I can get, like, my taxes done quickly and to the best of my ability, and then I can give, like, a report to my accountant and he can, like, finalize everything a lot.
So I, I, it's just used to, like, stay efficient essentially.
Used to help brainstorm and to think and then, like, through strategy we use it.
We use it in all areas of our business, so, And then just random stuff too, like if I'm just looking up, like, like golf stuff, I can use it.
But I use it, yeah, I mean, it's definitely use it a ton.
Yeah, yeah.
For sure.
I love how it's very applicable to your work, or you're making it applicable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then we use it, like, in our coding too now, so, like, none of our developers, like, write, write code anymore.
They just use, like, they use, AI to- Claude to do the, to do the code and everything, and we're able to, like, we're doing, like, 50 product updates a week now.
Holy cow.
Yeah.
So it's, it's been- Transforming your business.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Awesome.
And you gotta be, you gotta be in front of it, 'cause But we're lucky, Jack Zerby, he's our, he's, like, our, our lead in tech, and he's, like, one of the, the best AI guys.
I don't even know what you call him, but, like, he's, like, leading- AI guys, yeah.
Yeah.
And, he's, like, ahead of the curve in everything, so he just teaches us and then we use it.
Like, I know, like, one-100th compared to what he knows.
Uh-huh.
So, yeah, he's really good.
So it's good to have people on your team that know what they're talking about.
Yeah.
All right.
AI, get on it.
Get ahead of it.
Yeah.
Be like Nolf.
Yeah.
Sweet, man.
Well, I think that, that's kinda everything I wanted to go through.
Anything else you want, you wanna share with us, or any final words?
No, I'm excited.
Hopefully, hopefully, you guys can see me wrestle in Moscow.
I don't know where it's, where it'll be streaming, for RAF.
Yeah.
But that'll be my next match, and then just, yeah, check out Ocean if you're a coach.
All right.
Yeah.
Remember, the door is creeped, it's just barely slightly open for 2028.
Yeah.
We're gonna leave it right there.
Yeah.
We got a little wedge in there.
If we get, if we get 5,000 coaches on, on Team Spaces, I think right now we have 700 and, 750 plus that are using Ocean.
If we get to 5,000- By when?
By the- By the trials?
By the US, I want to qualify for the trials though.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
The US Open.
US Open is a, it's a catch all this year, next year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So if we get 5,000, then I'll, I'll probably enter.
We're gonna bully Jason into going to the Olympics by bolstering his business.
Yeah, bolster my business.
Exactly.
Awesome.
Yeah.
All right, folks.
Well, that's gonna do it.
Jason, thanks for being here.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
And, everybody else, we'll see you next time.
Thanks.
All right
