Jets Preseason Preview | Jets Final Drive Season Premiere with Connor Hughes and Zack Rosenblatt

On the Season Three premiere of Jets Final Drive, SNY NFL Insider Connor Hughes and The Athletic's Zack Rosenblatt come together for another season of Jets football, as they break down all things training camp, the new look offense for the Jets, and preview the first preseason game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

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One of the questions I ask is, is anyone standing out?

Like, who do you see?

And I'm expecting, you know, either cliche answers, which I got a lot of, of everyone.

You know, it's all good, it's so early.

But the one player that was brought up to me twice, and then being at camp this week, I was like, "Oh, you're not joking" We are back.

It is Jets Final Drive, episode one, season three.

Can't believe we've got it so far.

He's Zach Rosenblatt.

I am Connor Hughes.

A huge thank you to you guys, the viewers, because we are on to season three because it seems like you enjoy listening to Zach and me bicker, argue, and talk about the New York Jets.

Big season coming up for Gang Green.

They've got a head coach in Aaron Glenn that some people believe in, some people do not.

A quarterback who is back in Geno Smith.

Playmakers galore, maybe, in Breece Hall and Garrett Wilson and Kenyan Sadiq and Omar Cooper.

And also some games that are coming up here, Zach, which might be pretty important in Darren Mougey and Aaron Glenn keeping their jobs.

We are going to be getting to absolutely all of that, portions of it here today on this show over the coming weeks, because we are coming to you every single week throughout this season, beginning right now.

But before we talk some Jets, Zach, it's been a while since we've seen each other, 12 weeks or so, at least in this forum.

How are you doing, my friend?

I'm good.

You know, I was dreading having to talk to you for an hour again, but we're back, so, went a good amount of time without talking to you 'cause you were on paternity leave.

And I'm curious how that's been going for you.

I'm sure you're going a little crazy.

But yeah, you know, it was a, it was a nice quiet summer for the New York Jets.

Like, there's some small things here or there that popped up, and then they kind of went away, and we appreciate that as reporters that do this job.

Like, we've had many summers over the years that get ruined by, not even just Jets, like, when I cover the Giants and Eagles too, it's something pops up- All the time when you're, when you think you're in the clear and you can just hang out and not take PTO and you don't have to worry about anything, and then something pops up and you have to scramble.

And, we were able to avoid that and just kind of enjoy the summer.

A lot of beach days.

Took a family trip to Cleveland, Ohio, which I'm sure everybody's jealous of.

And, and now, now we're back in the humid Jets practices of August.

I was trying to think, like I, I made like a little mini list of like everything that's gone on since you and I last talked, and the big one, obviously, is having a second baby.

We welcomed Gavin in, in May, which was awesome, and it's been incredible.

Like, my daughter Brooke, who's been a part of this show for a while, is, is absolutely in love with her baby brother.

And I think what's thrown us for a little bit of a loop is when people tell you about having two, like, they give you the warning signs and be careful of this, be careful of that.

You know, what if there's jealousy?

What if there's animosity?

What we were not warned of, which we have experienced tenfold right now, is the over-loving from Brooke onto Gavin.

We finally get the baby down, and Brooke's over there giving him a kiss.

There was- We kept, Ga- Gavin was, like, kind of hanging out on the floor, and next thing you know, Bree and I look over and Brooke's trying to lift him up and hug him and hold him, and we're like, "No, no, no, no, no, no."

But I will say to everybody who told us that going from one to two is not going to zero to one, you guys were absolutely accurate.

I mean, dude, two kids is a lot.

And I think what, like, what I used to say over and over again was I wasn't too, too worried when Gavin was getting here because in my mind, and this proved to be sort of right but also a, a gross miscalculation of everything else, is I was like, well, when we had Brooke, I didn't know how to change a diaper.

I didn't know how to console a child.

I didn't know how to feed somebody a bo- I didn't know how to do any of this.

So you're kind of learning on the job, and that's stressful.

But when I needed- You barely know how to feed yourself Ba- True, dude, it's true, barely.

Like, but- Now it's like, it, it like, when you have one, if I needed a little bit of a break, well, Bree could take over, or if Bree wanted a break, I could take over, or when there was just the two of us on it, that's two on one, like, we were dominating.

Now, bro, it is one of us has a kid 24/7, and most of the time my wife's with the, with Gavin, obviously, 'cause he's breastfeeding and all that stuff.

So I'm just man-to-man coverage with a feral three-year-old.

And dude, it is, it's, it is the workout of my life.

Like, I, I'm, I am, I am barely above water.

Loving every second of it, boo.

I am, it's something, dude.

It's something.

Like today, today I woke up- Bro and, and within an hour I was outside playing baseball, had changed a poop diaper, made an egg sandwich, and was like, "I don't know what to do.

I feel like it's been seven days and it's been two hours here."

Well, as, you know, I, I, I am blessed to have, I actually have seven nephews and zero nieces between both sides of our family now.

So we have a lot of boy energy.

Wow.

But I, I- Boys being strong, man.

I grew Yeah.

And, but I grew up with three brothers, so there's four of us in the house, and I think about that all the time with my parents.

Like, how, how did they operate with four crazy boys in the house at the same time?

Just a lot of guy energy, and this was before, you know, you know, tablets and, and all that stuff, so, um- Yeah I think about that a lot when I, when I see I mean, I, we are, seeing all my nephews and you with your two kids and friends with kids and stuff like that and, and thinking about how hard it is just even once you go from one to two, like you mentioned.

And just- Oh growing up with three brothers and knowing how insane I am on top of, like, my three brothers.

Like, I, I, I don't even know how my parents survived, to be honest.

Oh.

I will say, though, and I think anyone who has kids will say this, it's the best thing in the entire world.

Like, it i- it is, every day they do something where you're like, "Like, what?"

Or they, they truly do say the damnedest things.

Like, that's absolutely the case.

Like, it, it's, it's wild.

But, yeah, we love every second of it.

It'll be fun, too, to get Gavin on the show now.

You know, we've gotten Brooke on it a bunch, like, we'll get Gavin on a little bit as well once he can start moving around.

'Cause he, he's close to rolling, which is pretty crazy.

He's already rolled front to back, now he's getting close to back to front.

He's two, two months old, a little over two months old, so that's pretty crazy.

All right.

Dude, do you wanna talk some Jets?

You wanna do that?

Yeah, let's do it.

Or at least I said we could, we could probably fend it off as long as we want, but I figure we're gonna have a lot of time- to do that week 16, 17, and 18.

Might as well talk about it now when there's some positivity.

Let's start here, Zach, because I, I, I believe that we start 90% of our shows this way, but it truly is important here.

The Jets have a new quarterback again, and it is none other than old friend Geno Smith.

He is back.

He's taken part in all the off-season program.

He's taken part in training camp to this point.

And I'll be honest with you, dude, I, I, again, I spent the first week in West Virginia with the Giants.

I came back and looking at Geno after looking at Jaxson Dart, I was like, "Dude, Geno looks pretty good."

I mean, that spiral that he looked, I mean, basically throughout his entire career he's always, always thrown one of the better spirals, spirals in the NFL.

That's still there- Yeah even in his mid-30s.

He's still as aggressive as he's ever been.

This isn't like when Russell Wilson came to the Giants and suddenly got terrified of throwing the football.

And I think he's looked pretty good.

Now granted, he's going up against the Jets defense.

Are they any good?

But I've been, I've been pleasantly surprised with Geno, I think.

Yeah.

You know, I've, I've talked about this a bunch, both in writing and on my other podcast, Flight Plan.

Like I, I think the bar isn't that high for us, and I'm not, not saying this to disparage him.

But the bar is not high for us in terms of, like, what we've watched in training camp practices, like, with quarterbacks throwing the ball.

Like, we watched Justin Fields last year, where we're, we're all looking around like, "Is he ever gonna throw the ball down the field?"

and that was in preseason games, too.

And, you know, Zach Wilson, you know, c- is missing, like, the short passes and things like that.

Like, the mechanics on Geno Smith are just wildly impressive.

Like, he's one of the best practice quarterbacks I've covered in terms of, like, what I've seen this summer.

In terms of, like, what he's capable of.

Like, you watch him even next to their backups and his, his arm is just, like, you know, really far ahead of Cade Klubnick and Bailey Zappe and Brady Cook in terms of where he can get the ball.

He's not afraid to throw it, which is fun for us 'cause when you are watching a quarterback do checkdowns all of training camp it's not the, the best.

Aaron Rodgers will probably always be the best practice quarterback I'll ever cover.

Like, just 'cause he can do such amazing things with the football, the no looks and things like that, and he's not getting hit.

So Aaron Rodgers not getting hit, like, there's nothing better than watching him throw the football.

But in the, in But, like, in terms of what Geno is capable of, like, it's fun to watch in practice, and we'll see how he does when the season starts and how he does.

You know, he struggles under pressure generally.

This O line should be better than the one he had in Vegas.

But, yeah, I think he's been, you know, if we're gonna say, like, has he exceeded or fallen below expectations, I'd say he's exceeded my expectations going into a training camp with Geno Smith.

And he- you know, you, I don't, I can't remember if, I'm g- I think you were there towards the end of his first tenure.

You can remind me, but- Yeah, I was there his last season I- Yeah, and we got sucked.

I, I, I don't get the impression he, like, he always had, like, the arm talent, but I don't get the impression he was this, like, efficient and, like, he made this many wow throws necessarily.

Like, you can speak to that better than I can.

But I, I, I He's, he's clearly grown and his IQ has gone way up just through experience- Yes and things like that.

The tw- the summer of 2015, which was, if I'm not mistaken, that was the year the Jets, I think it's 2015, the Jets went 10 and 6 with Fitz.

But it was, it was the year where Geno got punched in the face.

That summer before he got hit, so, okay, in OTAs, minicamp, and the beginning portion of training camp, he looked legitimately good.

He lo- 'cause I saw him in 2014 to an extent, too, and that was not very good.

2015 he looked legitimately good.

I remember talking to some of the other guys, whether it was, you know, Rich or Costello or, or some of the people that have been around the team a lot, and they said, "With Geno, just wait," because he would have the great practice, then he'd come back with a bad one.

He'd have a good day or two, and then he'd come back with, he'd have a good drill and then he'd throw three interceptions in a row.

Like, just wait 'cause the other shoe's gonna fall.

And in 2015, the other shoe, up until the massive boot got dropped when he got knocked out, but, like, the other shoe never fell.

It was consistently good football day after day after day after day, to the point where it got to the point where you're like, "Did he potentially turn the corner?"

And then it all fell apart when Ike Anapoli hit him, and the next year it was they wanted Fitz back and all that other crap.

It's funny, y- y- I think you made a great point there, Zach, about the quote unquote practice quarterback, because Aaron will always be the most impressive thrower.

But the unique thing about Aaron is his technique and his footwork was in no way, shape, or form what a quarterback should do.

Like, he always threw from these, like- weird arm angles, and his feet were always so funky, like- Good point, yeah I remember actually talking to Joe Douglas once about it and said to him, like, "Dude, the ball flies out of his hand.

The accuracy's unreal, but if you don't actually watch the ball and you just watch Aaron Rodgers throw, like his body and how he moves, you'd be like, 'This dude's an XFL quarterback.'"

And then you just see the ridiculous things that he would do a- and how he made it work.

It's like the person with the weird golf swing that is still a single-digit handicap, you know?

It was one of those things.

Th- as far as just it looks so good, he's up there with Joe Flacco in terms of just technique and build and footwork and spiral and arm, and just, and he just looks, he, he makes it look how it's supposed to work.

He's the Rory McIlroy of swinging, where it's like, "Dude, I wish I could throw like that.

I wish I could hit like that.

I wish that's what my swing looked like."

It just looks so good.

And I, when they signed him, I don't know, Zach, if I believed, and I still don't believe, this team's gonna win eight, nine, or 10 games with Geno Smith.

But the hope with getting him, considering there really wasn't a better alter- ulterior option out there for them, is that he would give them confidence under center.

Because Aaron Rodgers coming back from that Achilles injury, we're gonna count out the year he got hurt because I truly think the Jets offense could've been special that year, but when he came back from the Achilles, he wasn't the same.

He was timid, he was afraid of getting hit.

He didn't really stretch the ball down the field.

Then you got to Justin Fields, and that dude was just afraid to throw the ball.

Now you have somebody in- Yeah Geno who's confident, who's aggressive, who looks like he has a chip on his shoulder.

And for better or worse, he's taking the field with a little bit of that F it mindset, dude, where he's gonna see a 50/50 opportunity and say, "No, no, no, that's 80/20 in my favor.

Yeah, maybe a couple of those are intercepted, but I'm gonna give my guy a chance to make the catch."

Yeah, and I'll say, like, I think there's always been questions about his level of maturity, I think even- You know, dating back to the Raiders last year, like, there's been questions about it, but, like, by all accounts, everything I've heard Like, obviously there was some off-the-field stuff.

It seems like that's gone away.

And maybe it, it didn't amount to, like, as serious as it sounded in the beginning.

But, anyway, like, in terms of him being in the building, like, from everything I've heard, and this is the time of the year everybody's everybody's best friend, but, like, by all accounts, he's been very studious.

He's taken a lot of young guys under his wing, and, I think people have been impressed with how he's taken on, like, a leadership role internally.

And so what I would say is, like, I, I see these quarterback rankings, and he's often at or near the bottom.

Like, if you look at, like, national reporters- That's not fair making these rankings.

I don't think that's fair, and I also They don't need him to be.

I think, I don't know what the national perception of what, like, the Jets thought they were gonna be getting out of Geno.

They don't need him to be a top 10 or a 15 quarterback.

If he can be the 22nd best quarterback, that's enough.

Like, that, like the Jets need a quarterback, like, to your point, like, this is not a team that's gonna win 10 games.

Like, they're not gonna win nine games.

They're probably not gonna compete for the playoffs unless everything goes right.

But, like, what you want is a quarterback that can help you better evaluate what you have and who you have on offense.

And Geno, as we're seeing in camp, and I think as we'll see when the season starts, like, he can throw the ball where it needs to go.

Like it's And I, and every time I do an interview on, like, the radio, I'm like, "I, I'm, I'm gonna say these things, and this bar's gonna sound very low," but, like, it's a low bar around here- Yeah because they've had really bad quarterback play, and their offense hasn't been outside of the bottom 10 since Ryan Fitzpatrick's year in 2015.

They've been a bottom 10 offense for 10 years straight.

So- Yeah like, if Geno Smith can get them out of the bottom 10, and I think he, he's capable of doing that with the weapons they have around him, if everybody's healthy, which, you know, is gonna be something we'll have to talk about later, obviously.

But, like, on paper, this is a group that should be able to score some points and keep them in games at the very least.

And, you know, for a team that is seeking competence this year, I think he is a good enough quarterback for that, and we're seeing that in camp.

And I, I think one of the reasons why, moving on here a little bit to, to some different pieces of the offense, Zach, and, and you talked about it, a, a group of playmakers around him.

It's an offense that should be able to score some points, and a big reason why they're gonna be able to score some points is that running back and receivers that they're surrounding Geno Smith with.

And we'll start with the running backs before we get to the wide outs because the receiver trio, maybe quartet when you loop in Isiah Williams, who's having a tremendous training camp, is a very interesting topic.

But last year with Breece, and I think, too, when we spent a lot of time talking to Aaron Glenn, whether it was at the Combine or owners meetings, the Jets wanted to do a running back by committee.

Almost it felt like it was gonna be a, what?

30, like, maybe 40, 40, 20 split between Breece Hall, Bralen Allen, and Isiah Davis.

Like, that's what it was gonna be like.

You've been at camp in the offsea- I missed the off-season program 'cause we were, I was on paternity with Gavin, but the week that I was here at training camp with the Jets, and I'm gonna be here next week as well, and then you've obviously been here for the full two weeks, they're going to use Bralen Allen.

They're going to use Isiah Davis when he's healthy.

However, it seems like Breece Hall is as close to a bell cow right now as maybe there's been A- as a bell cow is in 2026 in the NFL.

You know, no running back's gonna get 90% of the carries, but I think this is one of those things where Breece could get 70, 65 to 70% of the offensive snaps here from them.

At least that's what I'm picking up on.

Again, Bralen's still gonna have a role, Isiah's gonna have a role, but Breece, I think, has worked his way and certainly been paid his way into having a more prominent role as a mainstay on this offense, which is crazy, 'cause, dude, if Bralen didn't get hurt, there's a chance he was traded at the deadline.

Yeah.

I, I, I think by the end of the year, Breece was probably getting close to that, I would say.

But yeah, the, the biggest question that I always have with Breece, especially when they bring in a new offensive coordinator, is are they gonna actually use him in the passing game?

Like, you know, we've heard it from every single He's, what?

He had LaFleur, Hackett, Downing, Engstrand, and now Frank, and every single one of them has talked about using him more in the passing game.

And then last year they weren't using him in the passing game, and the excuse- Yeah was, "Well, we needed an extra blocker."

Yeah.

Like, that's not an excuse.

He's one of your most dynamic weapons.

And so- Yeah if Bralen can stay healthy and he can live up to, like, what he's shown in training camp, which, again, I, I fall into the trap every year because I think he looks pretty incredible in training camp- I agree 'cause he's big, strong, and fast.

And I think he was gonna be on a good path last year before he got hurt.

I, I know he fumbled that game, but he was starting to pick up some steam.

Like, you have the ability to play both those guys at the same time, and if you have the ability to do that and, and deploy Breece that way, like they've such intriguing movable weapons on this team now, which we'll get into.

But, like, Kenian City can line up everywhere.

Omar Cooper you can use as a gadget guy.

Isiah Williams you can use as a gadget guy.

Garrett can go inside, outside.

AD Mitchell's a deep threat.

And the ability to use Breece all over the field, like, it just, like, opens this offense up so much if Frank can, can, you know, creatively use all these guys.

And so, you know, my question is, are they gonna finally use him as a pass catcher?

I think you can u- look at how Frank used Jonathan Taylor and feel pretty good about using him as a bell cow.

I think when Frank historically has had a really good running back, he feeds them the rock a lot, and that's what Aaron Glenn wants to be a run-dominant team generally.

And I do think they're gonna throw the ball a lot this year, actually, like, more than they did last year, obviously, 'cause they were- Yeah scared to throw it.

But, yeah, I, I think he's gonna be the bell cow.

He's, they're paying him to be that.

That's the, between, you know, you talked about last year they wanted to be efficient.

Mm-hmm.

I'm sure that was also partially a tactic for as we're going into the season and Breece is due for a new contract.

Like, we don't wanna, like, you know, hype him up too much, and now they are paying him, and so we know that you're paying him to be the bell cow.

And so I, I think, you know, if you're talking, like, fantasy football, I, I think you can feel good about drafting Breece in like the first round if you really want to.

Yeah, later first round.

My, my only concern with Breece- Yeah would be if he nicks something or if the Jets are just so behind that they can't run the ball, that kind of a thing.

But y- the one thing I fall back on as, as Breece the receiver is fans think he can do it.

We media talk about him doing it all the time.

Coach is talking about doing it all the time.

But when it's this many offensive staffs in a row, and I, I go back to this because I remember somebody Over in Philadelphia told me this once because it was a big topic amongst the Eagles, not last year, but the year before, about Jalen Hurts not throwing over the middle.

Like, he never threw over the middle, never threw over the middle, and, and everyone was clamoring like, "He's gotta throw.

He's gotta go.

Why isn't he throwing over- why isn't he throwing over the middle?"

A coach called me once and he goes, "Connor, do you know how many offensive coaches are on that staff?"

Not even just offensive coordinator, quarterbacks, all of these offensive coaches, all of these assistants.

Do you think that not one of those people had the idea of Jalen, we should use, we should let Jalen Hurts throw over the middle?

If they're not doing it, there's probably a reason they're not doing it.

So when we are on, I don't even know how many offensive play callers or offensive coaches now within the Jets, between the Robert Saleh regime that drafted Hall, to the one now that paid Hall and has him.

Don't you think maybe that if Hall could consistently be a weapon in the pass game, one of the many people that make these decisions would have used him in that role?

So I agree.

I'd like to see him do it more.

I think he's a weapon in the open field.

But I just wonder if there's something behind the scenes there that's like, the coaches realize he's just not the best pass catcher of the bunch.

But, I know this was a big topic 'cause Rich Cimini, I think, had, had fans go up in a crazy, or go up, go up in, go up in fire when he made a comment about Isaiah Davis and Bralon Allen and things like that.

I, I still look at Bralon Allen, dude, and see a pretty good player.

I mean, I, I He's a creative player in terms of size, gear, the number, the way he looks, like he's a beast.

He's having a really good training camp as well, and I, I don't think I think Isaiah Davis will have a role on this team, probably as the third down back, but it's not at the expense of Bralon Allen not having a role.

I mean, I do think all three of these guys are gonna play a role.

It's just Breece, I think, is now very clearly the lead, the lead back, when that wasn't necessarily the case last year, if you'd agree with that.

I, I think Bralon and Isaiah will be split pretty evenly as the number two, three.

Mm-hmm.

Because I think they probably trust Isaiah in the passing game more and- Yes as a pass protector.

And he just kinda like does his job the right way.

I, I, I think that is what it comes down to.

So the coaches love him.

Not that they don't love Bralon, but like Isaiah just like, he averages five yards a carry, didn't get a lot of carries, but like, he just like, gets his job done.

Like, maybe he's not gonna, you know, burst and get like a huge, huge run, but, yeah.

So I, I think the, the concern I have is more if Breece goes down, like how comfortable do you feel with Bralon- Yeah and Isaiah as the only backups that you have?

So like, do they claim somebody in waivers after training camp?

You know, I haven't seen enough from the UDFA kid, and not like you would wanna rely on him anyway.

So like that- Right that's like a concern I Like, if we're gonna at some point talk about like what positions can they least afford to have get injured outside of quarterback, I'd, I'd put Breece Hall pretty high up there.

I still, I mean, I'm probably a little bit different than you.

I still feel pretty confident in a Bralon, Isaiah Davis pairing.

The problem is if you lose Breece, and then also you lose one of Bralon or Isaiah, then you're, then you're kinda screwed.

Moving on here a little bit now, let's talk about the pass catchers, because I do believe that this is probably the most interesting positional group that, that the Jets currently have.

And, and we'll start at the top with Garrett Wilson.

One of the best players in the NFL, but the one thing that he is not is a route technician.

And I don't wanna sound rude or mean about that, because what I mean is there are receivers in the NFL, Davante Adams is one of 'em, I think Puka Nacua is another one, where they are going to run a route exactly how it is designed.

So if it's supposed to be an in breaking route at seven and a quarter yards, they're gonna break in at seven and a quarter yards.

If it's supposed to be broken in at seven yards, they're gonna break it in at seven yards.

They are going to do it exactly by the book, and that's what makes them special.

That's not necessarily Garrett.

Garrett is a guy who gets to an area on the field and then gets open.

He has this God-given ability, this superpower, if you will, to steal a line from Robert Saleh, now Aaron Glenn's used it as well, to just find an opening.

It's basketball-esque, which probably ties to his basketball background.

Unfortunately, that takes a little bit for quarterback and receiver to get on the same page.

It's why, if you wanna go way back when, there was a, press conference Zach Wilson gave, in the, in the Jets locker room where he made a comment about like, sort of it being difficult sometimes to throw Garrett Wilson the ball.

He said it like subtly, but that's what he was talking about.

And then Mike White was somebody who connected with him really well.

They saw things the same way, and he blew up.

Aaron Rodgers didn't connect with him that way.

Geno Smith now, Zach, I think we're starting to see the two of those guys really come together, especially with that Friday practice where Geno threw him the ball five times for five completions.

Well, I, I think the way Garrett Wilson talks about Frank Reich, I think, kind of says it all, 'cause he said, I think it was in the spring when he first said this, he essentially was like, "This is kind of the offense I've been looking for my entire career."

I think he meant in the NFL.

Which is like, where he feels like it is the most player-friendly offense because- Frank takes into account what these guys wanna do, what they're good at.

And I thought that was really a, a really pointed comment, 'cause he, you know, I Garrett clearly is somebody who, you know, it is important to like, you do want your receiver to go where the quarterback thinks he's going to go.

Like removing- Yeah Rodgers from the equation, like, you know, generally you wanna have a good idea of where he's gonna be.

But like, also you want someone who is as a- athletic and efficient in his movements as, as Garrett, to like be able to just go to the open spots of the field too.

And, so I, I'm curious to see how that looks once we get to the games.

Like, like I said, like this time of the year, everybody loves everybody, so everybody loves Frank Reich.

He, we've never had an offense like this.

We've never had a coach treat us this way.

Week one we'll find out how that looks against like Robert Saleh's defense.

But like, I, yeah, I'm, I think Garrett is gonna get funneled a whole lot of targets.

As long as he stays healthy, I, he should be among the NFL leaders, top five in targets, I would guess.

So it, it's fair to get excited about this pairing because as we talked about earlier, Geno is gonna hit you if you're, if you're open.

He's gonna be able to sc- and he's not gonna be afraid to throw it to somebody who he knows can go and get it, like Garrett.

Like Garrett, Garrett doesn't I mean, if you look at like the open score numbers, I don't think he's always at the top.

But like, he's gonna go up and get the ball if he's covered, and Geno is not gonna be afraid to throw it to him, and that's, there's something to be said about that Yeah, Garrett's made some ridiculous 50/50 catches.

I don't think, though, he's an elite 50/50 ball guy.

No.

He's, he's one of those dudes that just gets open.

You know what I mean?

There, there are players where you just throw it up there and you see Like, Mike Williams is honestly one of them, where he, they just found a way to come down with the ball.

I don't think Garrett's that guy, even though he's made some spectacular catches.

But his ability to just find ways to get open, when you can sync with that and find a way to be on the same page with that, it can be a deadly combination, and, and just torment defenses.

AD Mitchell seems like, I mean, this isn't groundbreaking news, but he is wide receiver too for the Jets.

And Zach, you've talked about this- Yeah ad nauseam.

You've seen a larger sample size than me, 'cause again, I was in West Virginia with the Giants.

But AD Mitchell seems like he's having a pretty good summer here.

Act- Like, you came in, I think it was your first or second practice, on the day where Garrett had those five targets and caught all of them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would say leading up to that, I, I thought Geno had more chemistry with AD Mitchell, honestly.

Like, I think they, since the spring, had really shown, I think their skillsets fit each other really well, in that, like, Geno is not afraid to just throw it up, and AD Mitchell's the kinda guy that's gonna be able to go up and get it.

He's the guy that you can throw it to where he's going because he's so fast.

I think he's got a really good head on his shoulders.

He's a really good teammate.

He's, they, he's a hard worker.

Like, that was the word on him even as he came in.

Like, I think, you know, some of the issues in Indy were s- number one, some, like, you know, young receivers, mental slip-ups, like the, his, obviously his fumble, which is essentially what led to him getting traded.

And, and then you also, it s- had a, a deep receiver room in Indy at the time.

I think the Colts could use him right now, because Alec Pierce is out, and I think Josh Downs is also injured.

So all of a sudden- Yeah they could use AD Mitchell.

But yeah, I've been highly encouraged.

And he's actually, like, as, as we, like, look ahead to the preseason and as they start going against other opponents, like, I'm most curious to see how he looks, against other cornerbacks other than the Jets corners, because this is kind of, if you think about it, the first time he's really playing with Garrett Wilson.

He was, he was like their de facto number one wide receiver as soon as they traded- Yeah for him, 'cause Garrett was already out.

And he, I don't know that he was necessarily ready for that, and he still showed flashes.

Like, by the end of the year, he was playing pretty well.

He had a few too many drops, but he was getting open at a ridiculous rate with quarterbacks who were not capable of throwing him the ball.

And so, like, the ceiling is really high at him.

Like, I, I'd temper expectations in terms of, like, stats, 'cause he's not, like, g- gonna be a high target, high reception guy.

I think you'll see days where he has three catches for 100 yards and a touchdown, and you'll see weeks where he doesn't have much.

But I, he's the kind of receiver that I think they've been missing as, like, a legit deep threat- Yeah who can go up and get the ball and has the potential to be more than that.

And so the fact that he's not gonna have so much on his shoulders and he can go one-on-one with a corner, the number two corner is gonna be every week, like, that's, that's exciting, I would say.

Well, what's crazy too about, about AD, man, and, and we've seen this a lot from I, I, I don't What, what was your first training camp you covered?

What was the first one?

Tw- 2022, so Zach Wilson's- Okay second year.

Got you.

So, well, no, not with the Jets, just in general, 'cause you were covering Eagles games, so it's like- Oh, oh, oh, 2018.

2018 with the- Okay Eagles.

So I was a little bit before that.

Like, I was 2014.

And, and what I can say is, is, and you probably can agree with this, this isn't breaking news, is you, you do enough training camp practices, and you watch enough of these drills, individuals, one-on-ones, seven-on-sevens, 11-on-11s, occasionally there is somebody that just walks onto the field and looks different.

Like, they look bigger, stronger, more physical.

When they run, it looks, like, beautiful.

Like, it ju- they jump, it looks elegant.

Like, d- they just look a little different.

When the Jets traded for AD and he arrived, I remember standing on the practice field with you and watching him go through individual drills, just literally just running around and catching balls from coaches and moving in and out of the bags, and being like, "That dude looks different."

I mean, he is a true, as Aaron Glenn has said and Tanner Engstrand said before he got let go, he's a true X.

That's what this guy does.

That's his position.

He's big, he's physical, he's fast.

Like, that's the kinda thing that he has, he has attributes and does things you can't coach.

And he seems to me like a guy that just wants people to believe in him.

And when you believe in him and give him that confidence in him, you're gonna see him thrive, when in Indianapolis he didn't have that, so he started to falter.

But the fact that the Jets have this guy, I, I think it might've been Will Parkinson who, like, who, he either quote tweeted this or he tweeted it himself, but with the issues that the Colts are dealing with right now at pass catcher, it was like, quote, "Maybe they shouldn't have rage-traded, AD Mitchell to the Jets."

And you can see it, because- Yeah this isn't just some add-on throwaway player like I originally thought he was when I saw the Sauce Gardner trade come through.

This is a dude who's an NFL player.

He can play.

How good he's gonna be, we'll see.

But it's clear that as long as he wants to play in the NFL, he's going to have a role with teams, because he can do things that others can't.

He's pretty fun.

When I was in West Virginia, Zach, I m- I made some calls just to, again, it's, the hardest thing between covering the two teams is FOMO.

And you know how bad I deal with that.

That's personally, that's professionally, is, you know, I'm, I'm enjoying covering the one team, but it's, I'm also, like, losing my mind over what's happening on the other side.

So I tried my best to call the people that I know over within the Jets building and just be like, "Hey, like, how are things going?

How's practice?

How are these guys looking?"

Whatever.

And one of the questions I ask is, "Is anyone standing out?

Like, who do you see?"

And I'm expecting, you know, either cliche answers, which I got a lot of of everyone, you know, "It's all good, it's so early."

But the one player that was brought up to me twice, and then being at camp this week, I was like, "Oh, you're not joking," is Isaiah Williams.

We know what he can do as a punt returner, know what he can do as a kick returner.

Dude, he's making play after play after play as a receiver this summer, where I know AD Mitchell, I know Garrett Wilson.

Maybe we can have, it's not that big of an argument, but maybe we can go back and forth over who's been the second most impressive receiver in camp.

I would say that aside from Garrett, it's, it's Isaiah, man.

Because he's catching everything thrown his way.

He's taking the top off the defense with the long balls.

The ca- the grab that he made in their inner squad scrimmage where it was deflected, he still located it, caught it, and then was able to keep both feet and balance in the back of the end zone for a 36-yard touchdown.

Like, this dude's turning heads to the point even Aaron Glenn admitted the coaching staff has to find ways to get him on the field Yeah, I feel like what kind of got lost in the shuffle with him, even last season, was because he was such a good returner, people were- and people really weren't really paying much attention to their offense by the end of the year.

But, like, he was playing pretty well as their slot receiver at the time.

Like, he- Yeah he was catching the ball.

And like you said, the, the coaches love him.

I think I underestimated his stance on the depth chart coming into camp.

I thought Tim Patrick, veteran, be the number four.

Isaiah, the, the returner who's active on game day because of that.

But yeah, I'd say he's been really, really good, and he's earned a role on offense, and he's going to get it, just if you just base it on how Aaron Glenn's talked about him.

The one guy who's been a little bit quieter, and then we're gonna move on here to the defense and, and talk a bit about David Bailey, though, is, is Omar Cooper, Zach.

And I, I think about it in the term of he is a first-round pick whose best attribute is not something that's gonna be seen in training camp.

He is elusive.

He's run through guys.

He's basically what the Jets were hoping they were gonna get with Malachi Corley.

Yeah.

Just an immensely better player than Corley was.

Like, that's kinda what he is.

Unfortunately, you don't see that in camp.

And he's flashed a little bit.

He's made some catches.

But I think when I showed up last week, I thought I'd see more from him.

I didn't, and I was like, "Oh, should I be disappointed?"

And then I j- just did more research on him as a player.

I was like, oh, no, no.

This is just never a guy who's gonna be a training camp star.

Like, you see receivers come through every now and then.

I compared it in a story I wrote on SMY, like the summer of Elijah Moore in 2022, I think it was.

Like, that dude was every single day making plays.

You're not seeing that with Cooper, but I also don't think he's a player that you're ever really gonna see that from in practice.

You're gonna see it in pre-season and when the regular season comes.

Yeah, it's, it's not something I necessarily have a concern about, but yeah, it's, he's not, like, a guy that's gonna flash as much in camp.

I, I do think they're gonna find creative ways to use him, end arounds, screens, try to get him in the open field.

But yeah, like, y- you know, if he was their only first-round pick, it would probably be a bigger deal to the, to the general and local public, like, how he's looking.

But since they have David Bailey and Kenyon Sadique, who's obviously hurt, and, and Pons, who's hurt too, but, like, since they have these other rookies that are gonna be playing big roles, I, I think that, it hasn't been as big of a deal.

And I just think ultimately, he's gonna have a role in this offense.

Maybe it's not a huge role, but I think he's gonna have a role as, like, a gadget, slot, after-the-catch type of guy.

Yeah.

All right, just a, we're, we're gonna move on here in a little bit to the defense, but before we get there, Zach, you do a lot of work for the guys over at Badlands.

They're incredible.

So just a quick note from our friends over there.

Make sure to check out the Bandla- Badlands season preview live show at the Gotham Comedy Club in New York City on August 22nd at 5:00 PM.

Joe is gonna be there.

Connor Rogers is gonna be there.

The entire Badlands team, and they'll be giving their final predictions for this season, answering audience questions, hosting interviews, and doing giveaways.

So head on over to badlandstoj.com for tickets and information.

Zach, I, I, I say this about Joe all the time with, with Joe Caporoso for, Turn on the Jets, is that, you know, when I, when I started covering the Jets, I didn't know much about them other than they were an NFL team, obviously.

Like, I wa- didn't grow up a Jets fan.

One of the first things that one of my best friends, who is a diehard Jets fan, said is, "If you want the pulse of the fan base, you gotta follow TOJ."

And to see them go from what Joe created with that to Badlands and how much success they're be- they're having, and to have been at, I think, two or three of their events before this one, they have such a grasp on the fan base.

It's been awesome what he and Rogers have been able to create, what they've done to this point.

And those events, if you guys haven't been there already, make sure you get out because it's awesome.

If you're a Jets fan, that is absolutely the place you wanna be.

It's fun.

It's great conversations.

You usually have a lot of the media g- unfortunately, you and I aren't gonna be able to make it this time, but you have a ton of media that are out there, and you get to see the live show.

So if you can make it, make sure you go out there because tho- those guys know how to put on a party, right?

Yeah, it's incredible, and w- we were lucky enough to have our podcast, Flight Plan, join in, and Paul Kilgallen from Badlands joined me and Tim.

And it's just been pretty sweet being a part of that community.

They're, they're a bunch of psychos, but I love them.

Okay, so I just talked about AD Mitchell a couple minutes ago, where we said how he's a dude that just stands out as, you know, beast, right?

Yeah.

I would say that the most impressive player in training camp to this point of the practices I've been at, talking to Koz, I think he said, "No, it's not just this week.

It's been the entire summer," at times the single best player on the field at any position, you can loop in Membo as well, but has been David Bailey.

Am I wrong in that?

Like, that is a dude who is just every single day, bro, there is pressures, he's drawing penalties, he's getting to the quarterback for would-be obvious, no doubt sacks.

I mean, there was three drives in the scrimmage that the Jets ran a couple days, I think it was Saturday.

Three, three drives in the scrimmage where he single-handedly ruined possessions.

Two, he drew penalties on.

One, he had a sack of Geno Smith.

Dude, this guy looks as good as advertised.

Yeah, in, in terms of the, who's been the best in camp, yeah, I, I'd put him right up there with Minka and Membo, I would say.

Those have been, like, the three MVPs.

And the fact that your number two overall pick has been arguably your best player in training camp is exactly what you wanna hear.

Like, that is just absolutely incredible, especially because, as you know, like, everybody, including us, were like, "They should take Arval Reese.

They should take Arval Reese."

Yeah.

The large majority of this fan base felt that way.

And, you know, we'll, we'll see how it plays out and whether which was the right one, but, like, if he's as good as he looks, like, you have an elite pass rusher.

You have a Pro Bowl caliber guy who can get 10 sacks every season.

And, like, you know, not to put too much expectations on, like, a 21-year-old rookie, but, like, he's, to your point, he's been dominant.

Like, I think it was the third practice of camp or second practice of camp, you know, they weren't in pads yet, so you, you don't wanna put too much stock into it.

But, like, that's when he absolutely dominated the practice, where he had, I believe, like, three sacks, two tackles for a loss.

Man.

He had one play where he stutter stepped Olu, and Olu ended up on the ground.

He had another where he bull rushed through Membo and Breece Hall to get to Geno Smith.

Like, he's doing it with power, with speed.

He has a spin move.

He has strength.

He has that get off, which is ridiculous.

And then I think the most important thing, in my mind, is, like, I've seen him make an impact in the running game.

Like, that's- Yeah the biggest question you and I had and w- why we were, like, mildly critical of the pick was, you have Will McDonald and him, like, can you play these guys on running downs?

All signs to me seem to be like, yeah, you can play him on running downs, and the fact that he's walking in, in my mind was- And, and you can play David on running downs.

You can play David on running downs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry, I- Not Will.

Yeah, not Will.

Yeah.

Not both.

Hey- He might not play well at all.

Number 30, number 31.

Um- Yeah I mean, he looks like their best edge rusher right out of the gate.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's We'll, we'll get into the other guys, but, like, yeah, I mean, he's one thing I've said since January is, like, they don't have blue-chip guys on defense.

They need blue-chip guys, and he- Yeah right now looks like that, and we'll see, you know, how he looks against the Bucs O line and how he looks.

I'm curious to see what kind of preseason snaps he gets.

He is a little banged up actually, so, we don't know.

It, it was described as day-to-day.

I don't get the sense it's anything serious, but- No you know, he's been fun to watch.

Like, it's, you know, it's, it's just for us as reporters when we're at these practices, like, being able to watch somebody play this way is just fun for us.

Yeah.

Because a lot of times you go in and you're, you try to make excuses for young guys when they're not, like, you know, making plays as much as you would like or, you know, you're hoping, you know, the team is hoping that they become something that they were drafting and, like, you can't judge them too early and all this stuff.

But when you look this good right away, you know, it's only gonna increase the expectations for him.

But I, I, I've just been very, very impressed, and he seems to have a really, really good head on his shoulders, too.

Yeah.

He just cares about football, and there's something to be said about that.

I w- my first practice back with the Jets, I was standing on the sideline, and I was talking to somebody who works for the team, just kind of coming over and catching up 'cause I hadn't seen guys.

And I was picking his brain like, "Oh, how's this guy look?

How does that guy look?"

And I said, you know, "What about David Bailey?"

And he said, "Dude, like, OTAs, mini camp, he was working most, rotating in with the ones, but working with the second team, as most rookies are.

To start a training camp, they threw him out there with the starters, with the first team, and it's just been domination every, ev- every single drive since."

And I'm actually kind of in a unique position because covering the Giants as well, I get a chance to see Arvel Reese a ton also.

So that whole week in West Virginia, I was watching number 52, which is the number he's wearing quite a bit.

I genuinely believe, Zach, it's early, it's early, it's early, a lot can change, but this is going to come down to a situation between Giants and Jets, the Arvel Reese, David Bailey debate, where it was a pick your poison.

It wasn't It, it I, I don't think either of these guys is gonna miss because David Bailey is just blowing up plays consistently in the run.

He packs an absolute I mean, he is a C-ball, hit-ball player where he's blowing up plays, getting into the A gap, stopping runs.

He had a thir- Giants ran like a fourth and two or third and two series in the full pads, and he stuffed Cam Skattebo at the line, and Skattebo didn't gain an inch.

And if you know anything about Skattebo, you know that's, that's kind of noteworthy.

In fact, I think he hit Skattebo when I wasn't there so hard, he actually had to leave practice.

Then the Giants are now starting to work him as a pass rusher as well, so you're seeing that come through.

But again, David Bailey as just an edge guy, not the linebacker, is disrupting every single play.

So especially them both playing in New York, the fact the Gi- the Jets were tied to him, they passed on him, whatever.

I, I don't, I don't know if there was a wrong decision.

If Bailey is a 10-plus sack a year guy and Mar- and Arvel's still making all pros, I mean, you're gonna be happy with whatever it was.

It was just what you wanted.

The Jets do need difference makers on the, on, on the defensive line.

It seems like they found one there.

And I will say, dude, I, I, I mentioned it when we were talking about Geno Smith, I do genuinely believe with Kenyan Sadiq and Cooper when he gets going and Isaiah and AD and Garrett and G- I, I think this Jets offense can be fun.

I think they can be fun.

I genuinely believe that.

Aside from David Bailey and aging Demario Davis and Minkah Fitzpatrick, I have major, major, major reservations about this defense, and a big reason for that is if David Bailey's not getting home, dude, who is?

Like, who's gonna be that other guy?

Haven't seen it from Will this summer.

I think it's been a very, very quiet summer for Will McDonald.

I don't know what they have on the interior pass rushing without Quinnen Williams anymore.

Like, I, I just, I have questions at two of the three levels of the Jets defense.

Linebacking should be fine with Demario and Sherwood, but defensive line outside Bailey, the cornerback position, even safety next to Minkah Fitzpatrick, like there's I'm, I'm worried about the Jets defense, is the best way I can say it.

Yeah, I, I think it is fair if you just look at the depth chart across the board, there's a lack of depth at a lot of spots.

I will say, I do think Kingsley Enigbare, was looking pretty good before he got banged up.

I think he can be a solid rotational guy.

Joe Hasy hasn't practiced a single time.

Tavondre Sweat hasn't practiced a single time.

Like, those are concerns for sure.

Like Harrison Phillips, he's, you know, more of a space eater.

David Onyemata's a run stopper.

Like, where's the penetration gonna be coming from, I would say is the big question.

And, you know, Will McDonald, I think at this point is probably just a pass rush specialist, and I'm curious to see how that looks and h- how he can handle himself.

And if he has to play against the run, how does that look like?

This is an important year for him, if they wanna keep him long term.

So I, you know, I He hasn't flashed in camp like he has in the past.

Like, historically he's been a pretty good training camp guy.

But so far, this new defense, haven't really noticed him that much.

So yeah, I'd say my concerns on defense are largely depth related- Yeah and corner, which, you know, I, I think those guys have been solid throughout camp, but I, I still have concerns about, like, on paper.

Like, you look at Brandon Stevens, you look at AZ Thomas, let's say those are the starters, and the nickel is Jarvis Brownlee or Pons.

Like, none of those are guarantees to be, that you can be like, "Okay, we have a no doubt, solid, really good starting corner."

Like, there's the ability there.

But I feel better about the safety room than I have in the past.

I think Minkah is legit.

I think he has been arguably- Dane Pelton as well their best defensive player in camp.

Dane Pelton has had a really good camp.

Cisco, I, I still see him as a strong talent, but yeah.

He always does, though.

I will say, Zach, real quick to interrupt you.

Yeah, yeah.

Dane Pelton always has good ca- Like, that was a thing with the Giants, was he led the, led the, led everybody in practice interceptions.

Like, he always has a good camp.

He just never really got an opportunity to consistently start with the Giants.

I think he might have that chance here with the Jets, but continue.

Yeah, yeah.

But I mean, I, I, and I like Like, they've had a really bad safety room over the years.

I do like the, the makeup of the safety room if, especially if Minkah and Dane are your starters.

But yeah, there's, there's holes on this defense and there's depth concerns.

Like, if you lose, to your point, if you lose Jamie and Sherwood or- DeMario Davis.

DeMario in particular, like, they have nobody behind them that you feel good about at linebacker.

Like, that's, that's a problem.

And so, you know, like, there, there's depth issues.

And I do think the floor of this defense has been raised.

Like, they have solid contributors that, you know, should be okay.

Like, I don't think they brought in a lot of, like, star power.

Um- Mm-hmm but like, it this, this still doesn't look to me like a top 15 defense.

Like, I, you know, does, is it a, can it be a top 20 defense?

I don't know.

And that's gonna be the concern I have.

And, you know, I think Glenn is gonna try and be creative and send a lot of blitzes, and you hope to get David Bailey home, and you hope to get Will McDonald home, and create some pressure so they can force some turnovers on the back end.

But yeah, I, I still have concerns about the cornerback room and, to a degree, up front.

I am with you there.

I, I am.

And, and if we wanna throw one more on there, and I will, I will answer this in two ways.

I still think Aaron Glenn can be a good head coach.

I do.

I, I but I liked the idea of Aaron Glenn the CEO more than I like the idea of Aaron Glenn calling the defensive plays.

And, and if you go back and you look at his career as a defensive play caller, I know he said it's his superpower, but I don't necessarily believe if that's the case.

So another wrinkle or another layer of this defensive situation is that, and I could be proven wrong, you guys can clip this and I'll have egg on my face in a, you know, in a couple of months if, if I'm dead wrong on this, but I don't know if Aaron Glenn gives the Jets a significant tactical advantage on the defensive side calling plays.

And I think going into this season, they need somebody who is going to give them a tactical advantage on that side of the ball because of the physical and player limitations that they have at a lot of those spots.

Little trivia here for you, Zach, because I, you spoke about Dane Belton.

You had the interception, which pinged my brain here.

I don't think you were there on Saturday, which is when this question was asked in the media room.

It has been 575 days since the Jets' last interception.

Do you know who had that pick?

He is no longer on the team.

Well- I'll give you that clip.

Well, it's spoiled, it's spoiled on the screen right there, but I, I, I did know.

I did know.

Oh, my goodness.

I did know.

I- I was asking as a trivia question.

My bad.

I'm not looking below it.

I did know that though.

I, I did know, 'cause Ashton actually had two interceptions that year, I believe.

Yeah.

And he, yeah, it's, it's been- Where'd he end up?

Miami, right?

I mean, that's Yeah, he was in Miami.

He's actually in San Fran now.

He's with the 49ers.

But I it's inter- like, it's, as a writer, like, you know, you know, in the off season, when you're writing more often like I have to at The Athletic, like, it's hard not to keep saying the same lines.

But, like, when you write about the defense, you have to mention that they had zero picks.

And I sometimes get commenters being like, "Why do you always have to bring that up?"

I'm like, "Well, it's a pretty crazy stat that's never been done in NFL history."

And so they have, you know, they have a low bar to clear again.

Like, that, we keep talking about the low bar to clear.

Like, they have to get some- Yeah picks, and I think they do have some pieces to do that.

I think Minkah's a playmaker.

Dane Belton is a playmaker.

If they play Na- Nashon Wright, he's a playmaker.

D'Angelo Ponds.

So they have guys with a history of it, whereas I think if you look at the way they built the defense last year, I think they made some mistakes in that.

Brandon Stevens doesn't really have a history of picks.

AZ Thomas didn't really get them in college.

Malachi Moore didn't really get them in college.

Andre Cisco had zero picks the year before the Jets signed him.

Like, th- they didn't have a, a group that at least, like, had ball hawking tendencies, and now I think they have more guys.

So I, I can't I have to believe they're not gonna have zero picks again, and I have to believe they won't have only four picks, which was the previous record, I believe.

I think they'll have more than that.

I, I have to believe that because I just can't imagine this happens again.

So.

What's funny is in, a staple of training camp is, you know, you're, you're a beat writer.

I'm not technically a beat writer, but I base in a beat for two teams sort of.

Like, I just cover the two, so I bounce between them.

The national guys who fly in, like, who come to a couple of practices and they do their- Yeah, yeah, yeah training camp tours, you know, u- usually a half dozen or 12 teams, they get a chance to go out there and see.

It's funny, it's like catching up with them on the sideline and when they realize that, no, yeah, the Jets literally didn't intercept a pass last year.

They're like, "Is that true?"

It's like, "Is that an actual number?"

Like, yeah, that's the thing.

That's, that's a thing that happened.

It just, like, it absolutely a thing that happened.

They did not pick off a pass.

All right, Zach, you've I don't feel, I don't feel comfortable answering these next series of questions here as we just move on a bit here in the show.

It's, it's the- Yeah the biggest thing in training camp is positional battles.

That's what everyone talks about.

It's fun to watch.

Actually, it used to be in the Madden video game where you could do little positional battles in the Madden video game too, and that was always fun- Right until they took that out.

I'm gonna throw to you some of these.

I've got four- Yeah written down at the top, and I'm gonna throw a fifth of, of the top positional battles.

You've been at the vast majority of training camp practices to this summer, so I'm just curious your take on where things stand.

We'll start with the quarterback at posit- at quarterback two, the backup.

Kate Klubnick, Bailey Zappe, and Brady Cook kinda in there as well.

Who do you think is right now leading the, the, leading the charge here for QB two?

I mean, it's pretty clear to me they want Kate Klubnick to have this job, is what I would say.

Like, I, in the spring it felt like it was a real competition, 'cause they gave Bailey Zappe the QB two reps.

But it's been Kate Klubnick's job to lose.

I think they want him to earn it.

They want him to show that he can be the QB two going into the season.

I think they haven't added another veteran quarterback, because I mean, they, they brought in Bailey Zappe.

He does have some experience.

But I think they're gonna see, like, who becomes available at the end of training camp, whether it's Will Levis or Spencer Rattler, or, like, one of those other guys.

I don't know that they wanna trade any assets for another quarterback.

I think they wanna go into the season with Kate Klubnick as their number two.

And I, I've been, like, largely impressed with him.

I, you know, I, I'll s- real quick, 'cause I, we don't wanna linger too much on this, but I, I'd just say, you know, as I alluded to earlier, we've watched practices where you know pretty quickly if a quarterback doesn't have it.

Like, that's- Yes something that I think you can learn pretty quickly.

Do I think Kate Klubnick's gonna be a star?

Like, maybe not.

I don't think he's shown anything like that.

But I don't think he's shown that he doesn't have the ability to be an NFL q- quarterback.

Like, I think- Yeah he's shown he can manage an offense.

He can make the right decisions.

I think he's pretty smart.

He moves pretty well.

He, he's, like, pretty okay across the board with arm strength, accuracy, all that stuff.

He's had some good practices, some bad ones, but, like- If he's your long-term backup, like I can see a future where he's your long-term- Yeah QB2, and maybe he flashes every now and then.

You're like, "Oh, can he be a starter?"

Like, I- that's like what I see for him based on what we've seen.

The pre-season's gonna be huge for him, though.

Yeah.

The big A, a great example of that is Tommy DeVito, his rookie year with the Giants, before it became, you know, the, the famous everything.

But, like, Tommy, when he was that summer with the Giants where he was just some I forget where he even played college, but like some undrafted free agent quarterback who played at Bosco and was like a local dude.

You saw when he would get his scout team reps, you're like, "Oh, that dude can play a little."

Like, it, it didn't look, When QBs can't play, it's a fish out of water.

You can tell- Yeah quickly.

You see it with Cade, you saw it with Tommy, who's now made a decent career for himself where it's like, oh, that guy can play a little bit.

And I, I think that's the baseline with Cade is you know he's not a bust.

Like, he's not somebody that's not gonna be in the league in five years.

Like, he's gonna be with somebody.

All right, how about cornerback two, Zach, between Nahshon Wright and AZ Thomas?

I think the Jets would love AZ to take this job.

He's somebody they invested in, but also if they have to go to Nahshon, he's a big dude.

He's had that history with interceptions.

They could use some interceptions.

He didn't cost them all that much in free agency.

Yeah, I think it's kind of like the Cade thing.

I think they want AZ Thomas to win this job, and I think they're giving him every opportunity.

He's had some really good practices in camp.

I wasn't there in the scrimmage, so I don't know how he looked that day, but I, I think generally he's been pretty solid.

I think he's been matched up with Garrett at times and has done his job.

I think he, he's gotten some close to getting picks.

I, it's, I, I get the sense that Aaron Glenn is really challenging him and pushing him in particular.

Like, I, if you notice, like, in press conferences, you ask Aaron Glenn a question about a guy, he kind of raves about all of them.

And there was a point in camp where he was asked about AZ Thomas, and his response was basically like, "L- let's see how he looks in pads."

And then when he got in pads, he was asked about him again, and he was like, "Well, he's, he's still shaking off some rust."

So I think he wants AZ Thomas to prove that he can be the kind of player they drafted.

And, and so I, I think if I'm predicting, I'm predicting he's the CB2 on week one.

But Wright is a 6'4" guy who had five picks last year and, you know, he's, he's not gonna go away easily.

He's been a little banged up as well.

I hate, though, that AZ Thomas is wearing number one.

Dude, it throws me every day.

And he's tall too, so every day he's out, it's like, "Sauce?

Sauce, buddy, are you, are you back?"

I, I'm, I It throws me every single time.

All right, how about nickel between Brownlee and Ponds?

I, I think this one's obviously Brownlee at the moment because Ponds hasn't practiced.

But- Yeah Aaron Glenn was telling us late, towards the end of last week's practice, he's like, I think he said quote, "Very close."

It was some version of close.

I think it was very close, he said- Yeah that Ponds is to returning, so.

Still, rookie corners, dude, that's tough.

That's a really- Yeah tough acclimation.

I'm not sure he's gonna have a great shot to start week one.

The Jets would obviously love to have him out there.

But I, I personally, just from afar knowing he's injured, would say Brownlee ahead, but I'm curious your take.

Yeah, I'd, I'd say so.

I, I think Minka's also gonna get a lot of snaps in the nickel, so I, you know, it's not a complete thing.

But like, yeah, to your point, Ponds never played the nickel in college.

My, my prediction, I, I think at some point, and probably by the end of the season, like DeAngelo is gonna be one of their starting outside corners, 'cause I think even though- Yeah he's shorter, I do think that he is better on the outside.

So I'm, I'm excited about him if he can get healthy.

It stunk that he got hurt when he did.

But, yeah, I'd, I'd say Brownlee probably is the nickel in week one, but probably not for long.

What about Jason Sanders and Cade York, the kicking battle that is I, I'm pretty sure I've covered a kicking battle with the Jets like- every single year.

Every year there's a kicking battle with this team.

Yeah, they've It's actually been one of the better battles.

They've been pretty even.

They've, for the most part, been making all their field goals.

Like, Sanders missed a couple the other day, but he made a couple 60-yarders throughout camp.

Cade York has a leg on him.

If I was gonna predict, I'd say Sanders right now, but I, I do think it's wide open and both those guys will get their shot in the preseason.

All right, last one here.

Andre Cisco and Dane Belton, like that second safety spot next to Minka.

Dude, I'll be honest, man.

Like, I, I saw enough of Cisco last year.

He wasn't very good- when he was before that.

I don't know what we're trying to do there.

I don't, I don't think Dane is a top five safety.

I don't think he's a top 10 safety, but he's a dude who every time he's out there, the ball just seems to find him, and he works hard.

He packs a punch, had a great TFL in the scrimmage, had the interception as well.

Like, every time he's on the field, he seems to make plays.

Cisco starts working now with the twos a little bit later last week.

I, I think it's probably a foregone conclusion he's gonna lose his job.

It's just a matter of to who.

So I, I'd say, I'd say Belton.

I don't know if you agree with that.

Yeah.

I- S- Friend of the pod, Dane Belton, we should say.

Yeah.

He's one of our- Yeah, friend of the pod one of our guests that we've had.

Yeah, you know, from what I heard, they are very, very happy with Dane Belton.

And I think Cisco starting at the start of camp was a product of him being here last year and them knowing- Yeah what they have in him.

And I, I think whether, you know, maybe Cisco is the starter on snap one, but I don't know that, that he's necessarily gonna get the same amount of snaps.

'Cause you can, you can move Dane all over the place, as you know.

He can play the big nickel.

He can play up towards the line of scrimmage.

He can play on the back end, like I And if you want guys who are gonna be efficient tacklers, who also can force turnovers, like that's what he is, and that's what they've been missing.

Real quick, Zach, before we move on here, we're gonna talk a little about big picture, just best case, worst case scenario for the Jets.

Yeah.

The tight end room's been very competitive.

There's no, like, positional battle there.

Yeah, yeah.

But you've seen some good stuff from Taylor.

Fun room.

You've seen some good stuff from Ruckert.

You've seen the, the Jets seem to, this coaching staff specifically, Frank Wright seems to absolutely love Jelani Woods.

The one guy who hasn't been out there is because he's hurt is Kenyan Sadiq.

A, a few weeks, I think, was the way.

The Jets got good news on the bad re-injury, if you will, so they don't think he's gonna miss a ton of time in the regular season.

But is there any concern with you there long-term with Kenyan Sadiq and, and if he's gonna, you know, just I guess big picture, if you will.

It's not concern long-term as much as it is concern that will he be able to make an immediate impact.

'Cause- Yeah he's such a unique player, and he's gonna be playing like every He, you're, they're gonna line him up everywhere on the line of scrimmage.

You're, you're gonna see them lining him up in the backfield, at tight end, at slot receiver on the outside- Right because he has the ability to do that, and he, he was really fun to watch before he got hurt, and he, kind of exciting.

Like, he's a unique size player 'cause he's like 6'2", so he doesn't look tall, but he's yoked.

He's like 250, and it's all muscle.

He's really fast.

Um- Like you, right?

But like that's, that's a lot- That's how our viewers describe you that's a lot to put on a That's, it's a lot to put on a rookie, though, to expect him to like know how to do all those different things.

I think he's really smart and studious, but missing this practice time, I'd, I'd say out of the rookies, I think he needed it the most.

And so- Yeah that's my concern.

Like, is he gonna be able to contribute week one, two, three?

I think by the end of the year he'll be fine.

But I, him missing all this time, that's where my concern lies, I would say.

All right, dude.

So, so we have talked offense, we've talked defense, we've gone over the positional battles.

I think you and I are both in lockstep here with what we think realistic expectations are with this team, but I, I don't wanna dwell on those and keep hammering them because we're, we're gonna talk about them ad nauseam pretty much every single episode.

But I'm just curious, like, t- to this point, and then I'll follow after you answer with my opinion, based off of what you've seen, what is the best case scenario for the Jets this year, and then what is the worst case scenario for this team?

So, I mean, that's kinda like a funny way Like, looping in your expectations for what you believe this team is capable of- Yeah, yeah, yeah what's the best case and worst case for this, for this group?

Yeah, I mean, I think the best case, I wouldn't say the ceiling is significant, but, like, can they steal enough to get eight or nine wins if everything goes according to plan, and everybody stays healthy, and Geno has a Seattle-esque resurgence?

Like, yeah, I think eight or nine would be the best case.

And worst case, that's a good que- Man, that's a hard one, because I, it can get pretty low.

Like, I, I, I don't think they're gonna win, like, three games again, but, like, I could see them, worst case scenario, winning four games.

So it's not that much different, I guess.

So I, I guess that's where I'm at.

Like, Geno gets hurt, and you're playing Kate Klubnik before he's ready, and you're kinda s- struggling against some of these good teams they play against and some of these good defenses.

And, and the worst case is they end the season poorly again, and they have to find a new head coach, so I think that's kinda the, the range.

I, I'm similar to you.

So for me, it's I, I don't think there's any legitimate belief within that build, like real, real belief within the build that this is a playoff team.

I You watch the film, you see the roster, you know that everything would need to break their way and probably more for this team to actually make the playoffs this coming season.

The best case scenario for them, though, is that you find a way to grind out six or seven or eight wins, and you are competitive weeks one through 18, that there is no more JV team playing the final month of the season, or just dumb moments and silly moments where it's the same old Jets, none of that.

Like, you are just a competitive football team that grinds out six or seven wins, and you can see Aaron Glenn's teachings make you believe this team has their head coach in place.

You see Frank Wright, because, oh, they've got a competent offensive coordinator.

You see Duker as a potential understudy to Glenn, who can then get a head coaching jobs or a defensive coordinator job elsewhere, or head coaching job or whatever.

Like, that's what you see.

And also, the Indianapolis Colts are a complete and total disaster.

So you can have your cake and eat it too.

You get the, the, the team that is clearly headed in the right direction- Yeah you can believe in next year, and then you still get that Colts pick where it's gonna be up there in the first round, and you can select your franchise quarterback with that pick.

The worst case scenario to me is the Cowboys are good, the Colts are good- Yeah and the Jets are- That's a fair part of the convo, yeah and the Jets are bad but not awful.

You know what I mean?

So, like, the Jets are one of those teams that finds a way, say, to win six or seven games, but it's like a fake six or seven.

Like, when Adam Gase's- Jets won seven games his first year- Yeah, yeah, yeah or when Geno, not Geno Smith, I'm sorry.

When Zach Wilson was, what was he, like 6 and 4 as a starter.

Like- Yeah, yeah, yeah it's a house of cards that you know the bottom's about to fall out.

Like, you know it's not real.

You still have the same concerns with Glenn, the same concerns with the quarterback.

You wonder if the coaching staff is right, all of that.

But oh, by the way, now, of your three first round picks, two are nowhere near the top 10, and your own now is sitting there at, like, 11 or 12.

Like, that is the worst of all worst case scenarios, because now you're gonna have to take all those picks that you worked to accumulate to try to get it back up there.

You worry if one of the teams picking top five or all the teams picking top five need quarterbacks.

Which, like, when the Giants missed out on Caleb, Jayden, and Drake, and there was another one in there as well, or maybe that was just three, 'cause then they were picking four.

So I, I think that, to me, is the worst case scenario for the Jets.

That's, that's the worst one.

Yeah, I think that's I didn't even think about the draft pick angle.

Yeah, the worst, worst case is the Jets don't actually have a shot at the, at the guy that they need at quarterback next year.

So that- When you take 10 weeks off, off, Zach, you come back sharper.

That's what happens.

Think next level.

You think, you think next level.

There you go.

There you go.

You got that, that advanced thinking.

Brie won't tell you that.

Brie, Brie's growing, going nuts with me right now.

Like, she's, she's got three kids to deal with at the moment.

I'm back in training camp, so I'm not even in the house.

All right, we're gonna wrap up the show here, Zach, but before we do, big week for the Jets, because on Tuesday- Yeah is that tomorrow?

Yes, tomorrow and Wednesday, the Jets are having Todd Bowles and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers come to town for some joint practices.

And there will be two, unlike when Robert canceled the second one on Todd, and Todd wanted to kill Robert as a result- and flew everyone out there just to have, like, one practice.

I'm excited, because I think there's a lot to see.

We, you can The problem with training camp, dude, is it's offense versus defense.

So does the offense look good, or the defense look bad?

Yeah.

Does the offense look good or offense look bad?

And some- I was explaining this to somebody on Twitter.

Sometimes you can tell.

Like, there is a difference between a good defensive day and a bad offensive day you can see.

But I wanna see Baker Mayfield go up against the Jets defense.

I wanna see how they handle Amika.

You know, I, I wanna see how the secondary stands up against this Tampa Bay team, and I wanna see how the Jets offense moves against another defense.

Is Geno just gonna be shut down and these receivers shut down?

You know, is, is Garrett Wilson and Geno actually finding rhythm, or is Garrett just beating up on AZ Thomas in practice?

I don't know.

So I'm excited to see how this one's gonna go.

Joint practices are always fun.

A- and I'm curious to see, like, we were talking about the best players in Jets camp earlier, like, how does that carry over against a team that is playoff caliber in the Bucs?

Like, they have a pretty solid defense, they have a good quarterback in Baker Mayfield.

So how is David Bailey gonna do against that O line?

How is AD Mitchell gonna do against their cornerbacks?

How is Geno Smith gonna do against their defense?

And you get a really good sense of where your team that you're covering is at when, when you're watching them in these joint pra- You can find out pretty quickly if, if a team is gonna be really bad in these joint practices, like how much worse or better they look than the other team, or if they're gonna be It's a little hard to tell if they're gonna be really good, 'cause I, I, I just think, not, they're not, like, showing everything in these practices, obviously, so but, like, we've seen it over the years where, like, they look clearly better than a team they're going against in these joints, or they looked clearly worse, and you're like, "Oh, okay, th- this is how the Jets stack up with X team."

And I think what I think of is, like, Desola 2023 Rodgers year you know, we'd been talking about how bad the offensive line was all summer, but you really saw it against- Yeah the Panthers when they come- Yeah out and they're sacking Rodgers on every play, and then they show it on Hard Knocks where Saleh's chewing out the O-line in, in a team meeting.

Yeah.

So, I think that's something.

The O-line is one in particular I'm curious to see 'cause they've looked pretty good all summer.

How do they look against, ah, the Bucs pass rush?

Olu's the one I'm concerned about.

If we're being honest with each other, I have some concerns with Olu.

And, and the, the reasoning for that is David Baily looks great.

I, I Look, this is not a Carl Lawson, Mekhi Becton situation.

I'm not saying that.

Like, he's not I'm not saying Olu's gonna bottom out like Carl- like, Mekhi Becton did.

I'm just I wanna see a little bit more.

'Cause I, I remember I talked to a coach who was game planning, a defensive coach who was game planning against the Jets last year right before they played them, and I talked to him on the phone a couple days before the game.

I was like, "What are you seeing?"

Like, I'm not reporting.

I was curious what your take is of the Jets.

And one of the things he pointed out was Olu, and he said, "I'm not sure what happened because his technique looks like it's taken a legitimate step back from his rookie year, and I don't know why."

And when you then see David beating him up a lot, and I just I, I, I He's one I wanna see go up against somebody else.

'Cause Olu's a great kid.

I mean, it's not like Mekhi, who is just You know, you can kinda connect dots there.

Like, this isn't that situation.

He's a hard worker.

He's a great kid, got a good head on his shoulders.

Like, he- he's gonna try.

Effort's not an issue there.

I just wanna keep an, an eye on him.

You know, is, is I'm just, I'm curious on that one total, but it'll be, it'll be fun, man.

I, I'm, I'm enjoying it.

J- joint practices are always a blast 'cause you actually see, like, a bulk of time starters versus starters.

And you made that quick comment, dude, the one time I remember being like, "Oh gr- oh God, this team is as bad as I thought," you talked about the Jets' offensive line.

When the Jets scrimmaged the Giants Rogers' rook- Rogers' first year- Right.

Yeah and they just wiped the floor with the Giants- dude.

Like, it I, like, I thought going into that, I was like, "Dude, I think the Giants are gonna be pretty bad."

But a lot of times you cover the Giants, there, there's a, a natural optimism with that team that isn't always prevalent with the Jets.

Like, there's a, a lack of, there's a lack of a sense of reality at times with that team.

I remember watching it being like, "Dude, I don't think they're very good.

I don't think they're very good."

And then Rogers and co.

Went in there and just destroyed them.

I was like, "Okay, yeah, I was right.

Yeah, that's not a good team."

You know, the Giants, you know, what, won five or six games that year, so that was certainly one.

You can tell a bit, so I think we'll learn certainly a decent amount here about when the Tampa Bay Buccaneers come, come to town whether are the Jets better or are they about where we expect?

Dude, we're back.

First episode done.

We're back.

It was fun, man.

I liked it.

We didn't even yell at each other like we were doing at points last year.

I know.

There's, there's plenty of time for that, but, you know, we're, we're trying to ease into it, you know?

I can't yell at you right out of the gate.

No.

And we are gonna have Like, I think what I'm, I'm most excited for this year, Zach, is you and I, obviously, you know, I've known you forever, dude, but, like, doing a show with you for an entire second season together, this is the first time I'm gonna have the same, cohost for a second straight year, so I'm really excited about that.

We're gonna be back with a ton of Jets content throughout SNY's digital tannel- channels because SNY, Jets Mailbag is coming.

I think we're gonna have some Giants stuff as well, which is gonna be pretty fun.

I know not a ton of Jet fans care, but if you're curious what's going on on the other side- we're gonna be covering John Harbaugh and Jackson Dart and camp schedule and all that stuff as well, which will be fun in addition to all this Jets stuff.

But, I say this, I'm gonna try to do this without, without the script that I have in front of me to try to see if I can remember it after so many times off.

Because when I did do my first stand-up after coming back down at the Greenbrier, dude, I feel Our camera man, Mike Kenny, it was like, dude, Mike Kenny was like, "Bro, I, I had like 37,000 takes because- I couldn't say the word began."

So I'm gonna see if I remember this.

If you love Jets Final Drive, make sure you subscribe to all of SNY's digital channels, because we love you wherever you guys are watching us from, whether that's X, whether that is Facebook, whether it is sny.tv.

But YouTube is the place to be because the best part about YouTube is that throughout the show you can interact with us on that comments section, and we'll be reading those comments, and we're definitely gonna be interacting with you guys a ton more this year than we have in past years.

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That's stuff on the Mets, the Yankees, the spiraling Mets.

I think the Yankees are also spiraling.

I'm not really a baseball guy.

The champion Knicks.

Zach, we didn't even get a chance to bust your kee-on-es over that, the Knicks winning.

Although your Sixers getting LeBron James kinda makes me a little sad.

I'm not gonna lie.

It's kinda- It really did piss me off.

When I saw that, that came across my phone, that really did piss me off.

But then obviously all of our Jets content.

Mike Robinson, who oversees most of that production crew there, he's incredible, and the Jets, all the, all the group over there, Bart Scott, Willie Colon, Connor Rogers.

You'll get access to that.

Jets Final Drive, like I said, the Jets Mailbag show as well.

So make sure you subscribe there, to SNY's YouTube channel, because YouTube is the place to be.

And also, you get little notifications whenever we go live, so you can come in and comment in that comments section.

A huge thank you to our product- Or actually, Z- I messed it up.

Zach, huge thank you to you, dude.

Because you're obviously a part of Flight, Flight Plan with, Tim McMaster and the Badlands crew.

Yep.

So you're gonna be That podcast is great.

Make sure, Jet fans, you go and listen to that.

And then our production team, Jake Towel, Corey Palmer, and executive producer Jeff Golden.

Thank you guys for a great season last year.

We are ready for an even better one this year.

This has been JFD.

He's Zach, I'm Connor.

We'll see you guys next week

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