USWNT fights back in Brazil | Full Time Podcast

The second United States-Brazil match had it all: eight red cards, an own goal and the Americans first victory in Brazil since 1997. Host Jillian Sakovits is joined by The Athletics Meg Linehan to break down the play on the field and the misconduct, including the ejection of Brazil manager Arthur Elias. Then, Meg and Jill look back at the history of the rivalry and look ahead to what it might mean for a potential U.S.-Brazil clash at the 2027 World Cup and whether legend Marta might actually say goodbye on home turf. ------------ #nwsl #uswnt #wsl ------------ Subscribe to the Full Time newsletter to get all the latest women's soccer news straight to your inbox every Tuesday: Get in touch: fulltime@theathletic.com Follow on Instagram and TikTok: @tafulltime Catch the full episodes of Full Time right here

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Video Transcript

Hello, everybody.

Welcome to Fulltime, Jillian Sacrimont alongside Meg Lenahan for today's show because we're gonna be talking all things US versus Brazil in a match that was, you know, called a friendly, but Meg, it was anything but that, what we saw go down in Fortaleza on Tuesday night.

After looking out of sorts, I'd say, Saturday in a 2-1 loss, United States responded to Brazil's physicality with a 1-nil victory on Tuesday.

But the headline in that one is the fact that this game featured eight red cards.

Yes, eight.

We're gonna dive into that and so much more.

As for the scoring, Sophia Wilson forced a deflection off of Isabella Chagas, for what would be deemed an own goal in the 63rd minute.

The US would come close to adding to that lead, but ultimately they settle for this one goal victory in what was the first win in Brazil since 1997. but as I mentioned, the story of this game was the tension, the aggression, the passion we saw between these two sides, countless yellow cards issued as well.

Four Brazilian players and manager Arthur Elias sent off in this game in front of 55,000 people in a match that was as feisty as ever, Meg, wasn't it?

It was certainly a viewing experience, I'll put it that way.

I think everybody watching from home thought we were gonna settle in, right?

Like, the first couple minutes felt very much like, "Oh, we're gonna do this again."

And then things just slowly, slowly, slowly went off the rails, and then very quickly went off the rails.

So yeah, this is a game that I feel like we've never really seen before, and there's, there's a lot to dig into, to say the least.

Yeah, I think it's safe to say this one was a little bit more of a slugfest, than a soccer match, but we know that there are very important lessons, to be learned there.

What did you make of the style of play that we saw in game two?

I mean, I guess the question is first can we say that there was a style of play?

What I do think the main- takeaway here for both teams is going to be that this level could get reached again, right?

And so now the US has at least seen it, experienced it, experienced it in Brazil.

What I think is gonna be really interesting is the US is gonna feel like, yes, that was a victory and maybe the result is going to cover up some of the issues.

Though honestly, I don't think it will.

What is gonna be really interesting is Brazil is going to, A, have that first win and know that they have a game plan to beat the US, but 2, feel really hard done by the referee and crew, as we have seen all of what happened after and all of the comments that have happened after this match.

So I think this is really gonna be some good bad blood for Brazil coming out of this game.

But for style of play, it's really hard to say either way, right?

The main takeaway for the US is that they withstood w- how that game turned very emotional on both sides, right?

And that there was- Mm-hmm the sense of the US could sort of rise above and not react to things.

For the most part, there's gonna be one really big instance that I think we'll get into where a player did respond a bit, but- Mm-hmm you know, the US is gonna come out of that saying, "Okay, we, we went in, we battled, and we came out with a 1-nothing win.

No matter how it looked, we got that result, and that's what we're gonna take away from it."

So the first yellow card of the match, was issued to, of all people in this one, the itty bitty tiny, Rose Lavelle in the 17th minute, and then things seemed to start to pick up from there.

when Jujuya went down with an injury around the 30th minute, she was then replaced by Bia Zaneratto.

How did you see the intensity increase at that point?

Right, and then I think also not only were there yellows, right?

The fact that Rose Lavelle had a yellow, full credit to Trinity Rodman for furthering the discourse Wednesday- by posting, you know, "23 yellows, I didn't get one."

Emily Sonnet not getting a yellow in this game, also pretty interesting.

So there was this sense of, this was like a USA, Brazil sort of classic, and i- we'll get into the history of this, but like historically we have seen Brazil is able to force the US into physicality from unexpected places sometimes, right?

So there is that element of Rose Lavelle getting the first card.

I don't think anybody had that on a bingo card for these two teams.

Kinda cool, yeah.

But I do think that injury and that long delay off of Jujuya's injury was really where this game turned, and also where we saw both teams starting to figure out, like, what are the limits for this ref?

And there was a loss of control both ways, right?

And this is also where I think we should bring up Michelle Cooper, who by and large had a, like, a, a game that is really going to help cement her on this roster moving forward, but she reacted in a moment, right?

And this is where Brazil is now hyper-focused on where's the call for that, of potentially stepping on a Brazilian player while getting up after getting fouled, and so that's where you have to see the adjustments.

But there is a loss of control, honestly, for both teams.

So as much as Brazil is gonna feel really mad after this game, there's an argument for both teams that it didn't benefit anyone.

And, and the loss of control wasn't just amongst, the players.

We also saw it on the sidelines.

Brazil's manager, Elias, received a caution in the 37th minute for what was seemingly not following the ref's instructions, to change his shirt, which I, I've, we've seen this hundreds of- I, I will say I brought a penny today.

Just to, you know, put over my shoulder here.

truly, and this is where I was like, oh, okay, we're gonna get into this moment of sort of Brazil and US as a rivalry has had some really sort of absurd moments.

And for Arthur, like, I do think he's got that sort of He's willing to walk a line in a lot of ways, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I think extend that for his players.

But I think the frustration, right, and the fact that he's, he's out there being like, "Oh, look at the sponsor on this," the, you know, the penny and all of that, he's working the crowd and I think that is very much I mean, we've seen Emma Hayes do that on US soil as well, right?

Like, interact with the crowd mid-game.I support that level of, you know, let's, let's change our fortunes.

We have an element that the US cannot access here, and so I thought he walked that line maybe pretty well.

And then that's where Like, he found the line in that moment- Mm-hmm and then for the ejections later on, crossed it.

And then this is where I think there's gonna be big questions about does FIFA have to, have to do something about the way that the coaching staff reacted in this game?

Right.

A- and for anybody who, who missed it, it happens all the time in soccer.

If, if the manager's or someone on the coaching staff's shirt just looks too much like the jerseys that are out on the field, they have to put an orange, blue pinny on, whatever.

But everything that kind of transpired from that kind of, I don't know, folklore, fun, historic moment, for lack of a better word, then is where I think people's heads began to turn a little bit, including, head coach of the US Women's National Team in Emma Hayes.

She seemed visibly disgusted by his behavior and some of the chaos.

I'm sure some of it was that, nobody was cheering for the US.

But at the end it resulted in what is two red cards, given to Brazilian players after the whistle, and here's what Hayes had to say after the game.

My job is to coach my team.

My job is to manage my behaviors.

My job is to have emotional control and to influence my own players to have emotional control.

My job is to have respect for the officials.

My job is to make sure I stay in my technical area.

There is only one person allowed to stand.

And my job is to be a role model for my players, to display the behaviors to them that I want from them.

And so I can only talk about my behavior, and I thought my behavior was good.

Yeah, I mean, what's interesting for Emma too is that, I mean, she had to be informed of the number of red cards that were issued- Didn't we all?

and just, I think was actively sort of chortling to herself on the, you know, on the platform being like, "Oh, it was eight.

Okay, thanks for, thanks for letting me know."

I do think that there was clear frustration of, you know, again, this is an element where a coaching staff can influence a game, right?

And that's something where she feels like there is this sort of baseline.

I will say a friendly in Brazil is one thing.

I don't think a lot of what flew last night in terms of what that refereeing crew had to deal with is ever gonna fly at a World Cup.

Like, that stuff is gonna get I mean, he would get booted probably at the first instance in the 38th minute or whatever it was, right, where he's reacting to having to put on a pinny.

But also I do think in a World Cup you're probably not just gonna wear a random blue button down shirt that looks exactly like the USA jerseys.

So there's that part of it.

But I, I do think, you know, the fact that, Arturo was sent off and then I think it was a strength and conditioning coach first, and in theory this was for, like, foul language or, or language that they were addressing to the refs, and then two more coaches.

I mean, I did really enjoy the moment just as a, a viewer of the game where everybody was like, "Okay, so Marta is the coach now.

Great."

Like, coming in as a sub, she will take over this game.

She will take over this team.

We will be in good hands.

And then instead Marta I think also responded to the emotional nature of this game, had to get pulled away from the referees at the end of the game.

She's also lucky that she didn't get a red card beyond Kerolin and, I think it was I'm trying to remember who the second one was.

But, you know, the fact that the team was trying to pull players away, Ary Borges going up and, and being kind of the voice of reason with the refereeing crew.

Just basically everything that could have gone wrong for Brazil did in that moment, but they're still going to feel like they were the team that was done wrong.

Ludmila was the, the second red.

Right.

Okay.

So that's where I was, 'cause at first when the chaos was starting to build I was thinking, "Okay.

Well, is this perhaps more valuable to Emma Hayes that is very much trying to do a year of, of lessons to get ready for the inevitable for the World Cup?"

But then when it just turned into, I don't know, a, a bunch of bad kids playing in the playground with no adults around, it started to feel like what is to be gained here, especially by the end.

'Cause like you said, coaches are gonna be more professional.

Refing, refereeing crews, officiating crews are going to be the best of the best, the highest trained, the most on guard i- in a World Cup.

So when you look at the outing for the United States, that included six changes to the side, that we saw over the weekend to the starting 11.

This was a defense that held Brazil ultimately to what was zero shots, on goal.

And while the Americans tally came off of an own goal, we did see a few players including Sophia Wilson, Lavelle, Emma Sears, and Rodman come close to, to, to scoring one.

Olivia Moultrie too.

Right?

Like, I mean- Yes, there's another a, a lot of real- Again, I think it's the same thing that we talked about off of game one.

There were a lot of really high quality chances that weren't taken advantage of, and the goal that gets scored, again, someone joked with me on Blue Sky, like, Sophia Wilson heard Meg talking about that first goal for Wilson and decided to, like, one-up in terms of, like, garbage goals.

Still, like, they are moments that can change a game, but I do think in terms of, like, actual production of quality shots, great.

Execut- or, you know, the actual finishing touch, less great.

So again- Okay that's still the main issue that needs to be worked on for this team.

But the production in terms of-What they were able to get in terms of looks against Brazil I thought honestly for the most part was better, but we also saw great performances.

Kennedy Wesley getting the Full Time bump, right?

The start.

Mm-hmm.

Good performance.

Avery Patterson- I thought she was particularly smiley when we had her on just recently.

Yeah.

Avery Patterson, though, I think again we talked about her in game one getting experience like this, again I think responded well to the physicality of this match.

but, in terms of, you know, the questions I had about the back line in game one, a lot of those were addressed by game two.

So the homework there at least felt successful.

Okay, so we'll leave the, tactical breakdown for as much as that is available to us from that game.

we'll leave that there as last night's duel was just the latest chapter in the history of the US versus Brazil.

We're gonna dig into that and so much more in just a moment, but before we get to the rest of today's show, if you haven't already, please be sure to subscribe to Full Time wherever you get your podcasts.

Then you can interact with Meg also on Blue Sky, additionally, myself as well.

I'm on there on, @jillianzakovich.

If you're enjoying the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave us a five-star review.

And we'd absolutely love to know your thoughts about this game, about this trip, about the US Women's National Team.

who was your X factor for the US women?

Who kind of surprised you?

Who did you wish you saw a little bit more from?

let us know.

As always, you can DM us at TA Full Time or email us at fulltime@theathletic.com.

Okay, welcome back.

I don't know, I'm feeling more feisty as this- as this episode goes on.

I feel like I still haven't come down from, from this game on Tuesday night, Meg, and that's because this rivalry, goes far beyond what we all enjoyed this week.

This goes back a couple of decades.

You wrote an article about it today, on Wednesday when we're recording this episode, June 10th, for The Athletic.

So before we get into the whole timeline of how this developed, what makes Brazil a worthy rival for the United States?

Yeah, almost, I, like I like starting the idea of like what makes a rival for the US, right?

Because I think you look at the history, you look at four Wo- World Cup wins, you look at the Olympic victories, right?

Every rival this team has ever had, and they've had a few, right, that have like actually riven from, or risen from, like good opponent that you know you're gonna get a battle to rival.

It starts with Norway, right?

I mean, you talk to basically any nine to niner about Norway and they immediately get just so mad.

They still hate them, right?

But Norway, China, you think about '99 World Cup and the 2003 World Cup it was China, and then Brazil sort of takes the reins in 2004.

And part of it is any real rival for the US, it's just not a team that could beat the US, it's a team that can demoralize the US, and that's such a distinction of they have to be embarrassed on a national, international stage.

And so Brazil starts their sort of journey to rivalry in 2004.

They're the runner-up in the 2004 Olympics.

They face off in a final against the US for the first of three times in that one.

But it's not until 2007 when Brazil finally understands, like, "Oh, we have to embarrass you for the US to actually, like, take you seriously."

And boy, you wanna talk about embarrassment?

Let's talk about 2007.

Yeah.

Let's, let's dive deeper into 2007, a 4-nil beatdown by Brazil in the World Cup.

Two goals for Marta.

It's like Marta, Marta, Marta.

Yes.

Including perhaps, one of the greatest goals e- ever scored.

let's, let's, let's zoom in on, on '07.

Yeah.

I think, so '07 is interesting for a couple of reasons because first of all, this is kind of the height of Marta's, like, ascendancy into the international stage, right?

Like, this is the game that cements Marta as the best player in the world, and it's not just because So the first couple of things that are a factor in this game, Leslie Osborne, sorry Leslie, own goal, 20th minute.

Shannon Boxx gets sent off, right?

The, what was funny for anybody watching the game on TNT, HBO, whatever channel, Shannon Boxx was on the desk and, like, just did not wanna talk about how she got a red card against Brazil.

It was this moment.

Um- so she's sent off.

USA is playing with 10, and then they basically just get embarrassed for the rest of the game.

I mean, played off the field entirely.

That Marta goal, the second one, is, I mean, she flicks the ball out of mid-air past Tina Ellertson.

Tina Ellertson is trying to, like, drag her down, escapes it, puts Ca- Cat Whitehill on ice skates, and then finishes past.

Now, here's the other interesting part.

Briana Scurry had been put in goal by Head Coach Greg Ryan, much to Hope Solo's consternation.

So not only has Brazil embarrassed the US in this game, 4-nil, sending them into the third place match, the US is having to watch them celebrate on the field.

I mean, like, the, the footage of Marta celebrating this win is just honestly beautiful in so many ways.

But then Brazil has also caused this internal meltdown that happens within the US locker room of Hope Solo going into the mixed zone after the game and saying, "I would have made those saves."

Yeah.

So not only have they beaten them on the field, they have beaten them at the mentals entirely.

Yes.

It's just like a master class in this is how you turn yourself into a rival of the United States.

Yeah, there's, there's nothing worse than creating turmoil in now someone else's locker room.

And you know what's also going through my mind as we, as we reminisce over these names?

when I was at TST, which is always the place people5, 10 plus years after their careers go, Leslie Osborne, Cat Whitehill- Yeah were, were very much, in attendance.

Shannon Boxx has been there in the past.

and yet 20 years later, Marta is still out there just doing, just doing Marta things.

Yep.

Okay, and then this stays hot because in 2008 the US, Meg, finds a way to bre- beat Brazil narrowly one-nil in a gold medal match in Beijing, Carli Lloyd with the game winner in the 96th minute.

Yeah.

I mean, it's also just like you think about the Olympic Games, what is also just very interesting is when you look at the history of the US Women's National Team in this time period, we consider that sort of like post '99, that decade sort of like a dark era of the US because they- Mm-hmm don't win in 2003, they don't win in 2007.

They get embarrassed in 2007.

But at the same time you have these very good entertaining wins over Brazil in Olympic finals in 2004 and 2008, both of which take extra time in order to do it.

Abby Wambach is the hero in '04.

Carli Lloyd is the hero in '08, mostly 'cause Abby suffered a very nasty broken leg in a warmup game for the 2008 Olympics.

So there is this sense of this storyline brewing, and then 2008 is essentially the prelude, right?

Like, you think about the way that Olympics interact with World Cups.

They're either, they're both like an end to a storyline of you get that immediate year turnaround from a World Cup to an Olympics, so you can finish that narrative, but it also starts off the narrative of the next World Cup.

So then you have 2008 leading into 2011.

And 2011, just like, man, what a, what a whole time period for this rivalry.

Like, truly one of the best all time for this team.

Yeah, let's, let's talk 2011, arguably one of the most memorable games between these two sides.

It was a quarterfinal match at that 2011 World Cup.

This game played, in Dresden as that World Cup, Women's World cup was in Germany.

What did this game add to the mix?

I mean, this is, I think, the start of what we consider the modern US Women's National Team.

And so a couple of things, right?

These two teams diverge on paths following this game because this is kind of the start of Brazil falling away and not being able to get results in major tournaments.

But for the US, this is the ascension into 2012, again, gold medal, 2015, 2019 World Cup success.

So y- this is the start of that divergence, but this game, what is really funny to me is everybody remembers Megan Rapinoe to Abby Wambach and that, that goal in the very last second of extra time that sent them into penalties, the US goes on to win.

If you watch that whole game, which is on YouTube, and for anyone who is, like, new to this fandom or has never watched it in full, like, honestly just get a couple drinks, get some snacks, settle in for like two and a half hours because- Yeah it is truly- Give a year.

Yes like one of the wildest rides of a g- like I remember watching it live in real time and just, again, it's the same sort of thing that happened this week, right?

Emotions took over this game.

And that era of the US Women's National Team, I mean the whole storyline around that team even coming into the 2011 World Cup, they had barely qualified.

They had to go into World Cup qualifiers, right?

So it was all about grit, this American mentality, they'll always find a way to win, and then you go up against Marta, who at this point, right, is kind of at the peak of her powers.

She's won the FIFA W- Women's World Player Award five times in a row.

And so there is this amazing sort of narrative clash between these two teams.

But I think what's gotten lost about that game is just, like, how messy and frustrating it was.

And again, Brazil forced the US into having a player sent off, this time Rachel Buehler, so another defender sent off early into this match, forcing the US to play f- with 10 for an extended period of time.

Yep, Buehler went off in the 65th minute in that game that went 120 minutes, then to penalties, after the 2-2 draw, and the US would win that one 5-3 on penalty kicks.

Fast-forwarding to what was, until this week, the most recent match between the two teams, when the US defeated Brazil one-nil, and now we kinda come into the era of, oh, these names played in this game.

These aren't the yesteryear names.

Mm-hmm.

that game being the, the gold medal match in Paris in 2024.

How has the rivalry evolved or changed now in the short tenure of two years under Emma Hayes?

Yeah.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Emma Hayes is a little more willing to lose games, right?

Not an Olympic final, obviously.

The US went on to win that.

That was also a very sort of tense but not at all spicy game, really.

There was only one yellow card in that match.

I don't I mean, I was physically at that game.

I don't remember anything, like, truly that wild.

The fouls were pretty even.

I think there were a couple, like, rough fouls, but it was not the extent of either this past weekend's game or Tuesday night's game.

Like, those are in different buckets entirely.

So but there is a sense of, like, maybe this is the precursor of Brazil is back and can hang with the US in an Olympic final.

They can get there, and they got there without Marta, right, who had to serve a suspension during that Olympics.

So there is this rise of Brazil, but I think Emma Hayes has been very intentional about going out and scheduling games against Brazil, whether it's in the US or now more specifically in Brazil, because she views them as a very specific challenge for this team.

So I think there is this level of Emma Hayes inviting this as a rivalry because she knows that it provides a specific challenge for the US, and that also there is an advantage to having a real rivalry because it inspires you into a different level of a game.

I mean, I think back to what Brandi Chastain or Michelle, like, all of these older players have said about that early rivalry with either Norway, China, Brazil, it brings them to a different level if there's honestly a little bit of hate informing the game, and the door has been open to that, to say the least.Fast forward to now, two friendlies this week.

The US Women's National Team, Meg, is now 3-3-2 against Brazil in Brazil, but as we know, those games don't come around every day.

the US is 35-5-5 overall against the South American champions.

What have we learned about the unique nature of this rivalry when Brazil is on home soil?

Brazil has the upper hand, like 100%, right?

Like, I think that And that's not a bad thing.

Mm-hmm.

Because also you look at that overall record with 35 wins, right?

That's the thing about a US Women's National Team rivalry is that you have to pick those moments to push them to the brink, and if you can find those advantages, and sometimes it is as easy as we have a home advantage, then you have to take advantage of them, and I think honestly Brazil did that to a T over the past couple of days.

Because Brazil knows damn well that in one year's time they will have that advantage over whoever they face for as long as they go in that 2027 World Cup.

When we look at this week, US and Brazil, they split the series on the field, but who do you think is gonna walk away from this feeling like the winner?

I would lean Brazil.

As much as I think this week has been helpful for the US and is only going to serve them well in the long run, and I think especially the US is gonna feel like they won after that second game, across the board I think Brazil is gonna take so much more momentum away.

They hung with the US.

I think they got under their skin.

They understood how to get under their skin.

We saw the atmosphere play a massive role.

I think it's only going to just, like, get the hype for the 2027 World Cup at an even higher level.

I think we already had really good expectations of what it was gonna be like for Brazil to host, and now I think any Brazil game in this 2027 World Cup is going to be an absurd ticket for people to get their hands on, right?

So, I just think that was the perfect building block for Brazil one year out, right?

They know that they're qualified.

They were able to watch, you know, their opponents in CONMEBOL also work through their qualifications.

They got a W over the, US.

They got a loss that is gonna feel like just the most revenge-seeking missile, right, for the second game.

So, I, I think Brazil's gonna take more away from this set of games, and that's a fun thing for everyone.

I am not one to really believe in jinxes, but I do just wanna put this on the record, because I think I'm just a little vulnerable right now having just talked about Trinidad and Tobago when I was talking about the men's national team and not qualifying for something, so I just wanna take my little ha-ha back, okay?

As a throwback to 2011.

Qualification gods, mute that too.

Yes.

This a throwback to, like s- still some, like, 2017 PTSD, but anyway, I just wanna take that away.

Yes, Emma Hayes is 100% right.

they haven't qualified.

Still have work to do.

Okay.

how do you feel, Meg, that w- when the NWSL resumes in a, in a few weeks, that now they put a bit of an exclamation par- mark rather, or a magnifying glass on all of this?

For example, you think of a Kennedy Wesley.

she goes back to her club and, she plays with, with three of these Brazilians.

I definitely think there's gonna be maybe a little extra spice.

I mean, you hope also that the NWSL's able to, like, understand that this is a great narrative for them heading into 2027, right?

I think the NWSL's always been really good at embracing Marta and that storyline, but now there is every single incentive for the league to really put the microscope on Brazil and everything that these players are bringing to the NWSL, and the fact that the NWSL is essentially a league of choice, for the most part, for this national team in terms of preparing them for international play and World Cups.

So, there's a lot going for the NWSL, but I think there's also just this hope of, like, again, for a rivalry, one of the really key things for it is that you know these players so well, right?

Like, I think about USA-Canada on the women's hockey side and how those players interact at a league level, and how a- some of that stuff can, can carry over, or you get these unexpected alliances on club teams.

So obviously, you know, San Diego and Orlando are probably the, the first two that come to mind for folks, but Boston as well.

I mean, you wanna talk about Boston Legacy being in a Brazil stronghold of a city.

So, there's gonna be a, a few elements to watch, but you need that familiarity to honestly help the hate grow.

So, NWSL could play a role in this, and I, I would love to see it.

And also, like, I know we've been talking about when's Kat gonna come back, when's Kat gonna come back, but like, lean into Kat Macario.

Yeah.

A Brazilian-born, lived there till she was a teen, now plays for the US Women's National Team.

Like, there is just so much, that I wanna talk about over the next year.

Sure.

And I'm sure we will, and you'll be writing about it as well.

All right.

So now, a- as it stands right now, the US continues to be ranked second in the FIFA rankings.

Brazil is seventh.

Where does this squad rank in Brazil's all-time squads, Meg?

This is one of the deepest Brazil squads that we've ever seen, right?

Like, I, you've Having written about the history of this rivalry, you know, Marta is obviously the name that just sort of keeps popping up and keeps popping up, but you also think about players like Formiga and Christiane and the role that they played in this program for a really long time, and now you look at the depth, you look at the sub- the fact that, that Marta came on with what, 17, 18-year-old on Tuesday night, right?

They are The program is finally working as it should.

We have seen, you know, Marta's call for investment and for the, the next generation of players to really step up in 2019 has finally started to really pay off.

So, really good, strong Brazil team.

I mean, when you're thinking about- opponents for the US.

I think Brazil in, is in its own category of teams as, like, actual rival potential, but the three teams that I have on my radar for, are gonna make waves in 2027, Brazil, Japan, and Spain, right?

Like, those are three teams that provide three completely different game experiences, and only Brazil has the edge as, like, I think honestly being able to rattle the US in an emotional way.

There's really only one name that would be appropriate to end this episode with and, and that is Marta's, who showed plenty of fire on Tuesday, despite coming in for those limited minutes, 'cause she still managed, to pick out a yel- a yellow card in the 99th minute.

Meg, if you were looking ahead to a year from now, do we see Marta playing in what for her would be a seventh World Cup tournament?

I, I think all signs are currently pointing towards yes, right?

Like, we've gone through, I feel like I've written a Marta retirement piece at every major tournament- that we've had over the past couple of years.

Keep writing them.

But, like- Keep writing them this is the thing, right?

I wanna hear.

Like, we, we have seen this wave of sort of un-retirements.

I mean, we were talking about this, before the show, but you know, you think about Serena Williams, Lindsey Vonn, like all of these older players who realize, no, I still, I still have more in the tank.

And Marta, honestly, I mean, you think about her performance in Copa Amrica last summer, right?

Like, this is a player who still has something to give this national team, and while it might be in a more limited minutes capacity, the idea that Marta doesn't play in a home World Cup only a year away just feels like a harder and harder thing to believe.

I think I would've believed it more in 2023.

And the closer we get to 2027 and the level that she has managed to put up, I mean, you think about the trophies in Orlando, that championship run, the shield run, Copa Amrica, like, she is able to contribute in whatever amount of minutes that she is given for the most part.

I think the Olympics was really only the tournament that she wasn't able to feature as much as she would've liked.

And so, yeah, I mean, I think there are obviously, like, personal things that she's gotta work through, but I just, I feel like all signs point to yes, we're gonna see Marta in 2027, and I, I think that's, that's hopefully the swan song.

You know what comes to mind when I, when I think about her and retirement is just how many times after the 2023 World Cup I watched what for many of us would have to be a scripted, retirement ceremony, farewell, and just the poeticness that she dropped in that final game for Brazil in, in the '23 World Cup, on the field, red lips and all.

So, ugh, I wanna cry just thinking about it.

And, like, does she, does she top that?

Go take a listen to that if you've never listened to, to Marta's, like, call to the, to the young Brazilian youth and the up-and-coming women.

It was absolutely incredible and I was just like, wow, what a way to go out.

And then it's like, I'm here.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going anywhere.

Ugh, what a speech, what a speech.

All right, and for, any of our NWSL fans, if you're wondering, well, when am I gonna get to see this fire on the league level, you're gonna have to wait a little while.

the two teams with the most, Brazilian internationals is Orlando and San Diego, and they will play on October 2nd.

So just a little something to look forward to, in addition to this World Cup.

Okay.

we're gonna say goodbye.

Meg, thanks as always for your wisdom today.

If you haven't read it, go out and read this article and, when you've got a lot of time on your hands, watch that game too- You should that Meg was talking about.

Gotta do it.

Yeah.

Gotta do it.

Yeah.

It's a classic.

We should have Oh my God, we should have I don't know, this might, this might be, like, a rights issue- copyright issue, I don't know, but we should have, like, a second screen live Full Time, like, viewing experience in the off-season to just kinda, like, six months out kinda get everybody, like, going.

Just a classic World Cup ga- I mean, like, that's the thing too is- Drinks I will say- Snacks thanks to COVID, the- FIFA did actually put a whole bunch of archived games on YouTube.

Oh.

So there is just, like, this whole history.

You know, I, I, I feel like anyone who reads my work or has listened to me on the show knows that I have my rant about, like, we don't preserve women's soccer history well as a game in, in general, and so being able to have these games i- as complete games and not just, like, 15-minute highlight cuts is a gift.

And so spend some time.

Y- sure, you know the result, but you have not lived it if you've never watched it.

You will go on a journey.

Excellent.

Yes, let's do that.

Let's do that all together this winter.

All right, before we say goodbye today, did you know that The Athletic has partnered with Yahoo Sports to provide free best-in-class coverage of women's sports?

That's right, go check out the women's sports hub at sports.yahoo.com/women-sports.

I'm Jillian Sachukitz.

That is Meg Linehan, and thank you very much to our listeners for this, coming along on this US-Brazil journey with us.

And as always, Full Time is produced by The Athletic.

For more coverage, just head over to theathletic.com.

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