Why Two Things Can Be True About Sandy Brondello’s Comments
Words matterand sometimes they can ignite a league-wide conversation. Zena, Annie, and Sabreena unpack the controversy surrounding Toronto Tempo head coach Sandy Brondello's comments about Angel Reese , exploring the role of context, intent, impact, and the broader conversations about race and language in sports. The crew also examines the evolving leadership dynamic between Adam Silver and Cathy Engelbert and how much oversight Adam Silver has on the WNBA. Plus, we break down Caitlin Clark 's record-setting performance, the Golden State Valkyries ' impressive winning streak, and what's behind the New York Liberty 's recent struggles. Finally, we close the show with one of our favorite games: Two Takes and a Fake. No Offseason is a part of The Athletic Podcast Network: Sign up for the No Offseason Newsletter: 00:00 Intro 01:10 Caitlin Clark scores franchise-high 45 points 07:55 Sabreena Scale 08:50 Why the Valkyries keep winning 12:43 What makes the Valkyries so impressive? 15:43 Liberty navigate a challenging season 20:17 Whats the answer for the Liberty? 25:25 Sandy Brondello receives one-game suspension 36:41 Was Sandy Brondellos suspension justified? 41:46 Adam Silver noncommittal on Cathy Engelberts future 46:46 How much oversight does Adam Silver have over the WNBA? Related links and articles: Follow and listen to the audio podcast: Get in touch! Leave a comment wherever youre listening, or email us at NoOffseason@TheAthletic.com Show Links: -YouTube: @No-Offseason -Instagram: @tanooffseason [ -TikTok: @no_offseason [ Credits: -Zena on BlueSky: @zenakeita -Sabreena on BlueSky: @sabreenajm -Chantel on BlueSky: @chanteljennings -Layshia on IG: @layshiac -Annie on X: @anniecostabile -Produced by Taneka Burrell -Executive Produced by Andrea B. Scott Visit the Yahoo Women's Sports Hub: Full Episodes Playlist: Shorts Playlist: Thumbnail: Michael Reaves / Staff / Getty Images Sport via Getty Images Scott Taetsch / Stringer / Getty Images Sport via Getty Images
Video Transcript
Sandy Brondello's intent is separate of the impact, right?
And that is where, again, we can separate S- who Sandy is, which again, Sandy is not a clown.
She is not someone who i- has a bad reputation in this league.
She's a beloved coach- Right beyond just, again, what she's done in this league from-- That, I think, was really evident in the number of, of people who came out after the fact and were like, "Listen, Sandy made a mistake, but she's not a bad person."
Hello, everyone, and welcome to No Off Season.
I'm Zena Kadam.
I'm Annie Costabile.
And I'm Sabrina Merchant.
And today on the show, the WNBA continues to dominate the sports conversation.
As you could say, it is a movie.
Drama on the court, off the court, lots of storylines, and we're gonna break it all down, all the latest headlines from the league office to the hardwood, and we're gonna discuss everything that's generating debate, the stars that are putting on unforgettable performances, and the biggest storylines driving the season forward.
But first, one of the biggest performances of the season was delivered by Caitlin Clark.
On Friday night, Caitlin exploded for a franchise record 45 points, leading the Indiana Fever to a comeback win over the Seattle Storm.
Also was the first player in WNBA history to get a 40-plus point game, plus 10 assists as well in that same one, and it was kind of the performance that you would expect out of Caitlin Clark with the lore that goes behind her, right?
The big shots, the big moments, and then adding another record to her growing resume.
So wanna know, ladies, Sabrina, Annie, when you watch this game, what did you like about the way that Ca- Clark was playing, offensively especially?
I think this was such a big stretch for Caitlin and the Fever this week because of the three games in four nights and considering all of the minutes management and, you know, load management that Caitlin has been under over the last year and a half really.
To see her have this performance in the midst of those three games was the most impressive part to me, that she was able to be as effective, have the legs on her jumper, even after playing Golden State two nights prior.
That was really impressive to me.
And then, you know, just the-- You, you mentioned the 45 and 10 coming from Caitlin, but, like, that is on top of the 30 points coming from Kelsey Mitchell, who had the f- Right 17 points in the first quarter to really just establish this heater that both Indiana Fever guards would be on.
And to think that, like, all of that and Seattle still was within one possession by the end of the game- was really impressive for this very young Storm team.
But yeah, I think the context of, "Hey, like, we're getting into the stretch of the season again.
We can't afford to have you sitting out one game, playing the next game."
Aliyah Boston wasn't available in this game against Seattle, right, because of all of the injury management that Indiana has to do at this point.
"We need you more often, Caitlin.
What can you give us?"
And she was able to give them, like, really just an incredible offensive showing.
Unreal.
Yeah.
Yeah, piggybacking off of what Sabrina just said in terms of how impressive it was considering what she's navigated from an injury standpoint this season, I gotta say it was her efficiency, and her aggressiveness in the fourth quarter.
She had 16 points in the fourth quarter, shot 11 for 18 from the field, including six for 10 from three.
She tied Tamika Catchings for the most made free throws in a single game in franchise history.
So all around, I think her efficiency is, is what really, you know, was the most noteworthy thing beyond the historic 45 points.
Also, I wonder if she's gonna frame the shoes she wore for this game, you know?
I mean, the white and blue?
Based on- Right.
It, it was the first game that she had won in her, exclusive sh- signature shoes, and I, I mean, based on her post-game interview, her saying, like, she didn't really care, I feel like she probably is not going to do that.
But it was incredibly impressive.
I mean, the entire time that I'm watching it I'm like, "Ooh.
All right, Seattle, you are young."
because the scouting report was on display.
She's going left.
She's gonna look for her shot.
She's gonna go, you know, try and create for her shot, whether it's that step back, that side step, or getting-- I mean, she had, like, maybe one mid, mid-range shot or so, in that fourth quarter that you saw.
And if she's going right, she's play-making.
She's looking to dump it off or she's looking to drive and attack, and that's all night long she did that, and she did that really cleanly.
Being able to dunk to Monique Billings, being able to find her teammates, whatever it was, she was just really, really clean with that.
I, I will say I gotta give Seattle credit.
Even though this is a team, Indiana, that did not have Aliyah Boston, when Kelsey Mitchell comes out and has 17 points in the first quarter, it can deflate you, right?
It can make you feel like, oof, this is gonna be a tough night for a team like Indiana that can get 90 with their eyes closed.
And, the, and that, and the fact that it was 17 points in that first quarter for Kelsey and then already five assists for, Caitlin Clark in that first quarter I believe too was like, oh, this is gonna be a long night.
But they fought back, and they did a, a really great job, I think, of keeping their composure.
Dawn Malongo was phenomenal in this game.
Missed some tough layups at the end of that one that I know she's probably gonna want back, but they, the way they fought back was amazing.
It was interesting to see a little bit of, little bit of, kinetic energy between Caitlin Clark and Flaujae.
Flaujae wasn't having that.
I'ma tell you right now, I think it was a foul at the end of the game.
I do think that Caitlin Clark fouled Flaujae Johnson on her way up.
I know a lot of people are like, "Oh, the ball is part of the hand."
Personally, I feel like, one, Caitlin's hand was on her back.
Then she crossed over and hit the wrist.
It-- From what I saw.
I wasn't there.
But, doesn't take away from the fact that Caitlin had a phenomenal fourth quarter.
She was cooking, was able to pull that win out.
Seattle should be proud of themselves, though, to be able to battle, with a team that can score as well as they can and keep them honest in that fourth quarter.
Oh, and also- Just one more thing about Indiana Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stephanie White has drawn up some killer ATOs at the end of games- Ooh when Indiana has found themselves in clutch situations.
Yes.
But unfortunately for the Fever, like a lot of them just, shot didn't go in, or the shot did go in like it did against the Washington Mystics, and they end up losing in overtime.
So to have, you know, finally a performance where, like, Caitlin gets the big clutch moment, they show off, like, all of these killer end of game sets, like, it was just a nice moment for the Fever and their fans being like, "Yeah, this has been happening all year," but it's nice to see it all actually work out- Yeah and end in this really cool moment for everyone.
Yeah.
I, I-- On that point too is I love the fact that Caitlin, it felt like she learned from the game against the Valkyries.
There were quite a few times that she was leading the transition and could have pulled up like she did on Wednesday against the Valkyries with no one back, no one available for a rebound, and instead of doing that, she would either pull it out or found her teammate.
So I thought the decision-making was much better in that regard as well.
Ultimately, great game for the Fever.
But the more important thing, I think more impressive than anything, 'cause Seattle is Seattle, right?
This is the team that does have six wins on, or, you know, at the time, six wins on the season.
Indiana goes into a back-to-back and beats the New York Liberty 108-88.
And Kelsey Mitchell, who just had 30, comes back and has 33.
This is insane.
I think that is part of what is so scary about Indiana is that on any given night it can be anyone that, you know, pops for, for their back court.
All right, let's keep it going because we talked about how Indiana needs to bounce back.
That's because they had just played the team that is currently on a nine-game win streak.
This is insane.
Wow.
With that, I'm gonna open up the Sabrina Scale.
It's back, baby, every week.
I love it.
It's so much fun.
And right now the team that's at the top, and I love the way you put it in your Sabrina Scale this week is, like, 'cause there's, there's not much else they can do.
They're already at the top.
They, they're, they're just killing it.
It's the Golden State Valkyries.
They were already at number one.
They're continuing this impressive run.
They beat the Mystics on Saturday.
At the time that we're recording this, they're gonna play the Mystics again.
It was a closer game, on Saturday than it was previously against the Mystics.
But you saw the Mystics finally taking advantage of the things that they should have an advantage on the Valkyries for in terms of their ability to score in the paint and have some size.
But the Valkyries still took care of business in that regard.
So Sabrina, when you look at the Valkyries and you assessing them at number one, like what feeds into them continuously impressing you, not only on this win streak, but overall this season?
Defense, really.
Just- Yeah just defense.
Yeah.
I keep waiting for their offensive marks to, like, start to rise and, like, oh, it's like- Mm-hmm oh, you know, they're figuring some things out.
They're hitting more threes.
You know, they're getting more efficient with potentially Janelle Salon scoring outputs, or like maybe Gabby Williams is finding pockets.
But no.
No, this is not a team that wins because of offense.
They score enough.
Mm-hmm.
Enough.
Like in that game against Washington, they had a couple big threes down the stretch, you know, to change the momentum of that game.
I think they were down by six.
They hit two big threes from Gabby Williams.
Veronica Burton has another three that, really just seals the game for them in that fourth quarter.
But, like, their offense is below average.
Their offense is not on par with any WNBA championship teams of recent lore.
Like, usually teams are better on offense than they are on defense.
The whole defense wins championship thing's a lie.
It does not exist in the WNBA.
Okay?
You gotta score to win in this league.
Right, right, right.
And the Valkyries are just, you know, upending that entirely because they just strangle opponents, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like you look at the way they play defense and it's, it's honestly like kinda beautiful to watch.
Like there are just no gaps, right?
Like you're trying to get into the paint, like two people just sort of like co- converge and like the- Mm-hmm the opening just is gone.
If you try to throw over the top, like Kiah Stokes having an awesome, awesome rim protecting season, leader in the WNBA- Yeah in block percentage.
Natalie Nakase, obviously very familiar with her from their time in Las Vegas, knew how to use her, knew how to protect, you know, some of the offensive deficiencies Kiah Stokes might have.
But, like, Kurt Miller always used to wor- use this word congestion when talking about the way he wanted to play defense.
Like he just wants to- I love that you used that congest the paint.
Yes.
And that's all I see when I watch the Golden State Valkyries is like everything is congested.
Like it's the way you feel when you're playing against them, right?
Like it's just, it's like sticky and like you can't get through.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
And, that's what it looks like when you're looking at the paint, when you're watching the Golden State Valkyries play defense because there's the main defender, there's a couple people sliding in.
They don't make mistakes though, like strong side corner not slipping in, right, like that that person- Yep is staying home.
Yep.
But everybody else has their eye on the ball.
They have their eye on the paint and they just-- The play on a string thing I think is like sometimes overused, but like it just, that's how Golden State plays.
And, you know, they limit their points in the paint, right?
They have incredible block percentage.
Everybody on that team I think is like eligible for some sort of All-Defensive award because they're all that good.
But yeah, I, I keep wanting to think like it's a balanced team, you know?
Like they're figuring things out on both sides of the ball.
No.
No, they're just really, really good at defense and that's carrying- Really good everything that they're doing.
If we can't score, you can't score.
That's their motto right now, and it is showing up in such a big way.
And Annie, like when I think about this team, yes, it's second year, they brought back the most amount of players than any other WNBA s- franchise, so the continuity is there.
But- Mm-hmm when I think about what Sabrina's referring to, the congestion, which I loved seeing that work 'cause I, I've been trying to find a different way to describe it as their analyst here in the Bay 'cause it, they're, they're it just, that's what they do.
They clog so well.
But more than anything, and you saw this against Washington, you've seen it all season long, but their timing is impeccable.
Mm-hmm.
'Cause sometimes you can dig down and dig down too early.
You can dig down and stay too late.
You can dig down, and you were too high on the dig down.
It was the, you know, the person in the low spot that should've dug, dug down or maybe you were too low and you shouldn't have You know, there's reasons that some teams get beat on the back doors or on the drive and kicks because someone dug down At the wrong time, or stay too long, or too early, and yet somehow they move on this string.
And that timing leans into chemistry.
And Gabby Williams recently mentioned about, like, she feels like it's home for her.
She's been playing with this team a couple months, right?
Like, and it, it's, it just clicks so much.
Like, what has impressed you most about this team's chemistry and their development?
I think it goes back to the culture aspect, right?
And that goes all the way up to Joe Lacob and this enforcement of the idea that we have to be a championship team within the first five years of this franchise's existence.
So there's this call to action, or this, this thing, this attainable, you know, goal that is setting the precedent for everything that they do.
And then from there, you talk about, you know, Ohemaa making selections and, and going after certain types of players in free agency, and then Natalie Nakase implementing that culture and building this team's identity on defense, because that's something that I mean, when you really talk about everything you just outlined as far as their defense goes, so much of that is about will and is about commitment to effort, right?
It, it's not necessarily about intangibles.
It's about a commitment to, to that play style day in and day out.
And also, you know, players talk about this a lot, but, like, if you're, overly aggressive, or you commit to a closeout, or you commit to, you know, filling the gaps like this, you have to have trust in, in your teammates that they're helping on the backside.
And so all around top to bottom, this team's identity is, is not only so well defined, but it's so bought into top to bottom- Mm-hmm from every single player on this team.
Natalie Nakase, the entire organization i- is bought into this defensive identity, and I think that's why it, it, it's, it's the top-rated defense in the league.
Yeah.
And you, you mentioned it, like, and as we transition to the last team I wanna talk about, commitment to a play style, and that requires, one, a level of accountability.
When you have anybody committing to anything, it requires a level of accountability, but it also requires knowledge of what is the play style, what are we committing to?
And that's one thing I could s- I could say that right now it feels like the New York Liberty are still trying to figure out.
And it's understandable, even though, yes, they brought back their big three and, you know, some pieces around it in Lea Fiebich and Marine Johannes and Benajilany Hamilton, sure, people that are familiar with what's going on.
There's some new pieces in the mix of this, especially from a head coach perspective with Chris DeMarco.
But Sabrina, you look at, you know, the New York Liberty were one of the teams that you had trending down in your Sabrina scale.
The New York Liberty have become what you have called the anti-Valkyries.
At the time we're recording this, they've gone just two of eight, or two and eight, excuse me, over their last 10.
Explain this slide.
Why are they going in the wrong direction?
I mean, two and eight with the only two wins over the Aces and the Lynx, and the reason they're the anti-Valkyries is 'cause those are the teams that the Valkyries just can't beat.
Valkyries couldn't beat.
Right.
They beat everybody but the Aces and the Lynx.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Crazy.
So you look at, you know, you've beaten Minnesota, you've beaten Las Vegas, beaten Vegas in the Commissioner's Cup final as well.
The ceiling is clearly there, right?
Like, you can beat the best teams in the league, and then you're just blowing other games left and right, and some of them are not even all that competitive, right?
Like, they have a double-digit lead in the first half against Indiana, and by the time you look up in the third quarter, they're down by 20, right?
The, they've lost to the Valkyries, they've lost, Portland Fire losses were earlier in the season.
You know, they've lost to the Wings.
They've lost just all of these games that they really should have been more competitive in.
Uh- and sometimes it's not even, like, the fact that they've lost these games, it's the way they've lost these games, right?
Just the There was, like, no life in the New York Liberty at the end of that Indiana Fever game, and that's really what caused them to drop for me, is like, where is the buy-in on this team?
Like, w- do they know what they're doing, why they're doing it, and do they believe in the system that they're playing?
Because, you know, last year I feel like we constantly had this conversation about New York and, like, is it, is it the injuries?
Is it the effort?
Like, have they tuned out Sandy Brondello?
And, like, we sort of gave them a pass because, like, hey, you know, Stewie missed some games, Sab missed some games- Mm-hmm Shanquella missed some games.
Mm-hmm.
Like, this team just won a title a year ago.
They'll figure it out.
And maybe now, like, this is just a team that is constantly playing with its food.
You know?
Like, we talked about this in the 2024 WNBA finals, as they were winning a title, they were playing- Yeah with their food, right?
Yeah.
Like that game four that they gave away in Minnesota.
None of us had any faith that they were gonna win that game, even though they could clinch a fricking championship that day- Championship, yeah because that's just sort of the makeup of this team.
And- And they made all the media go into the media room and frantically find flights to New York to figure it out.
It's very short turnaround.
The fans weren't too mad about it.
It's fine.
It's fine.
Still vividly remember that, but alas, go ahead.
We, you have the same core for the Liberty, right?
And you have the same problems.
New coach, sure.
A lot of new pieces around them.
You know, we've talked about Pauline Asti and Rebecca Gardner coming in and, Rebecca Allen and all these, like, new faces that have added little bits and pieces.
Satou Sabally, who obviously has missed, I think eight games as of this recording, with a concussion.
But, like, the core of it still kind of remains the same.
Like, they just don't take every regular season game seriously, and that is maybe a problem, you know Like, maybe not such a big problem honestly, because, like, eight teams still make the playoffs, but, like, they're kinda hovering in this seven, eight region of the WNBA standings.
Yeah.
And, like, there are a lot of teams that miss the playoffs now, and a lot of teams that are trying to, you know, propel themselves into that top eight to make the postseason, and the Liberty are just sort of acting like it's a birthright.
You know?
Like, they're just gonna get there, and it'll be fine, and they'll turn it on and Like, do you wanna be playing the Golden State Valkyries or the Minnesota Lynx in the first round of the WNBA playoffs in a three-game series?
I certainly do not.
Do not.
So I just look at the Liberty- Absolutely not I don't know what I'm gonna get on a regular basis, right?
Like, some games there's, you know, Rebecca Gardner as the first guard off the bench, and some games they're playing, like, a bigger three.
They, you know, they even started Han Xu and moved Stewie to the three for one of those games last week, I think it was against Toronto.
Toronto, yeah.
Then, you know, you see them against the, the Indiana Fever, and they have Marine Johannes as the three, but like, then they don't bring Rebecca Gardner off the bench, and it's like, well, you're telling me that your best perimeter defender on the team is somehow not available for a game when you have to guard Kelsey freaking Mitchell?
I don't understand- the logic there.
So- Yeah I just don't know what I'm gonna get from them anytime I watch them on TV.
I know it's gonna be underwhelming.
That's what I've discovered from the New York Liberty.
And- I mean, I, yeah it's just a very, very strange situation.
It, it's so true.
I mean, that, I think that tempo game, e- especially when you see Sabrina, the last tempo game that they had, that they lost, 93-91, like, you see Sabrina go off, you're seeing, like, okay, there's, like, great, eh, there's always great elements to one person's game, but they can't quite put the puzzle pieces together, Annie.
Like, if you're the coaching staff, especially because it does feel like Chris DeMarco's trying to figure it out, like he's trying a lot of new stuff, which is understandable, but problematic.
Like, you have to have some sort of consistency, in order to build off of.
But I understand the idea of wanting to be flexible enough that if you don't like where you've started, you can go a different route.
I like the big lineup.
It didn't l- result in a win, but it was all right.
But are you gonna build on this, AKA give them more minutes, give them more opportunities to continue, to continue to work on this?
So, Annie, if you're the coaching staff, or maybe if you've heard from the coaching staff, like, what, what's the answer here?
What are they gonna try and do, especially going into the second half of the season after All-Star break?
So I don't fully agree with the fact that the entire team is playing with its food, Sabrina.
Like, where I disagree with you on that is Breanna Stewart has been the one consistent throughout this entire season.
She needs more from Sabrina Ionescu.
She needs more from Jonquel Jones.
That's just a fact.
And so I think that aside, the coaching staff, Chris DeMarco, there's been no consistency as far as what players he's had available, right?
And sure, we don't wanna use that as too much of an excuse, but from there, I go up to above Chris DeMarco and question what's happening above Chris DeMarco as far- as Jonathan Kolb, the GM, goes.
Because you have players that Chris is not utilizing, okay?
One in Benai Jelani Hamilton, who does not look like the same player she looked like in previous years, does not look like the same player coming back from injury.
But what we know is there's trade interest in her at the beginning of the season.
So if this is someone you're not going to utilize, well, now you're in a situation where you have injuries, your bench is depleted, and you have a player that's getting a DMP f- for, for what?
To go back to Sabrina's point of, you know, the choice not to play Rebecca Gardner, certainly questionable to choose to go to developmental players versus, again, your best perimeter defender in Rebecca Gardner.
That's, that's a question.
But when it comes to Benaijah, there doesn't seem like there is a true fit for her on this roster, and there's also a question of whether she truly wants to be in New York.
And when you're this depleted, w- what are, what are you doing?
So- that's where my question goes is beyond Chris is Jonathan, is Kolb putting the Liberty, putting the best, d- does, did he give Chris the best roster to utilize?
And obviously we don't have a clear answer to that because of the injuries, but what we know is there are moves that, that could be made, and they haven't yet.
And so- Yeah I think this, this is a combination of, of many things.
And sure, when it comes to the coaching staff, it's about consistency.
But how can you establish any consistency when your y- your lineups have been anything but, like, because of injury?
You know?
I, I don't know that they can.
The only place that they can get consistency at now, or it seems, with Sabrina healthy again, is from their big three, and they need more from the other two.
Yeah.
I agree with you.
I think that's a really good call-out.
Stewie has absolutely been a gamer, this year, and- She always is She always is.
Yeah.
Exactly.
I was, not this, this year, excuse me, but in general.
Yeah.
But you're right.
A- and that's why I feel like the, some pieces pop up in other games around her, but it's never been able to, like, come all the way together.
I mean- we saw pieces, e- even, like, the Commissioner's Cup, I thought was a really great example.
Or even maybe the, the first time that they met up against the Lynx.
These were games where I was like, "Okay, yeah.
Yeah, this is what New York could be.
This is what they're about."
Right.
And then it just drops.
It just- Or- Right y- it, ugh, it's tough e- even going back to the game against the Fever, that third quarter was the difference maker.
They had a lead, they come back, and they- Right look like a shell of themselves.
Well, Breanna Stewart had eight points in the third quarter.
Only one other player scored, Sabrina, and she had four.
Like- Yeah that's not- That's tough you're, that's super tough.
You cannot, that, that's, that's not gonna work.
Yeah.
Yep, I'm with you.
All right.
Well, that's the Sabrina Scale for this week.
We got still a lot more stuff to talk about, and we're gonna dive into some more topics in the, around the W right after this.
Okay.
Now, I ain't gonna lie to you.
Guys, I am so bummed that our entire B block is not about the Golden State Valkyries and their nine-game win streak.
Okay?
It's not about Caitlin Chen injecting herself, forcing herself into this Most Improved Player, Sixth Woman of the Year conversation.
I think she is in both of those categories, or should be in both those categories.
It is not about a lot of the great things that are happening in the WNBA around the league because it feels like these s- these, some of these conversations are s- are being, around basketball excuse me, are being swallowed up by some of the more cultural, more, human I guess I don't even know how to really put it.
Like, these stories that have less to do with the basketball and more to do about how we interpret these players, these coaches, the culture around the league, et cetera.
But we'd be remiss to not mention them and not discuss them because they are important conversations to have as well.
So we are gonna talk a little bit about what happened between Toronto and Angel to start.
Over the weekend, Toronto Tempo coach, head coach Sandy Brondello faced intense cru- scrutiny after referring to Angel Reese as a, quote-unquote, protected species during Friday night's game against the Atlanta Dream.
The comment quickly sparked widespread debate and ultimately led the WNBA to suspend Brondello for one game.
Now, before she was suspended, Brondello apologized publicly, saying that the remark was made in the heat of the moment, acknowledging that her words had a broader impact than she intended.
She further, she had more comments, on Sunday and mentioned that Brondello saying, "I have a ton of respect for her.
I wanna make sure that it w- she knows that it was an emotional statement."
and we can get a little bit deeper into what Angel said in response to all of this, but Sabrina, help me do that.
For anyone who is catching up on this story, like, walk us through what happened, the play that caused this, how did this get heard, what led to the league's decision?
Right.
So it's the fourth quarter of a game between Toronto and Atlan- Atlanta, and, Nyara Sabally gets called for a defensive foul on Angel Reese.
She falls to the floor, and the Toronto medical team has to go attend to her while she's on the floor.
And while this, you know, attention is happening to Nyara on the baseline, you can hear, like, a, a mic pick up Sandy Brondello talking to the referees saying, you know, like, "Come on, Angel, like, she's a protected species."
And in her, in Sandy's interpretation, she was saying, like, you know, she's protected in the way that she is officiated.
Like, she gets a certain leniency with calls because, this is something that I learned after the fact, in Australian sports terminology, apparently this is a term that gets used a lot to refer to people who, get a beneficial whistle essentially.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You can see it when it's talked about with, like, Australian rugby and Australian rules football.
I even saw it referred to, like, with Sam Kerr, who's an Australian soccer star, in a story.
So when Sandy says, like, this is an Australianism that entered her vocabulary, like, she's not making that up.
That's definitely something that has happened, but it carries different connotations in American language versus Australia, and that is obviously what Angel was picking up on.
So you can understand how a coach in the heat of the moment seeing her player go down, tense fourth quarter game doesn't excuse anything.
But, like, Sandy Brondello being someone who's been in the WNBA for so long, we just talked about earlier this year how, you know, Chamique Holdsclaw told this story about Sandy Brondello helping to advocate for her mental healthcare years and years ago.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You know, when she was a player and Sandy, I believe, was an assistant coach or maybe a head coach.
I, I forget exactly the details there, but this is somebody whose, you know, credentials in the WNBA are long established.
She has long been regarded as a player's coach, right?
Like, people love her.
She was a former player in this league.
Yeah.
And, the fact that she immediately took accountability, like, the next morning, posting a public apology, calling the Atlanta Dream, saying like, "Hey, I would love to talk to Angel whenever she would, you know, wanna talk to me."
Like, not forcing it, but just saying like, "Hey-" Mm-hmm. "
you know, I know the Atlanta GM, I know people in their organization.
I'm gonna make myself available should Angel like to talk to me."
I think she did all that she could in this situation, understanding that, "Hey, I made a mistake, you know?"
"I want you to know where I'm coming from, but also this is my fault.
Like, my bad.
I should've done better."
everything that you could have done in that situation short of just not saying the term to begin with.
Yeah.
Yep, and then it's important that after the fact, Angel Reese came out and said, and Annie, I believe you wrote a piece about this yesterday, breaking all this down, she came back and s- said that she appreciated Sandy's apology, no?
Yeah, she said, "First, I appreciate Sandy's apology, but I also appreciate the love and support that I've had over the last 48 hours," and I'm paraphrasing that, but the direct quote is obviously up online.
She also went on to say that she was grateful to the league that they took action, which I think kind of leads to a more nuanced conversation- Mm-hmm that we have to have around this, and the fact that two truths, we, we have to be, do a better job of holding two truths at one time.
Mm-hmm.
Sandy Brondello's intent is separate of the impact, right?
And that is where, again, we can separate s- who Sandy is, which again, Sandy is not a clown.
She is not someone who i- has a bad reputation in this league.
She's a beloved coach- Right beyond just, again, what she's done in this league from a accomplishment standpoint t- but to the point you made, Sabrina, her relationships.
Like, and that I think Was really evident in the number of, of people who came out after the fact and were like, "Listen, Sandi made a mistake, but she's not a bad person."
Which I think leads into another conversation, more nuanced conversation, about cancel culture and how it's taken us to a dangerous place because it's removed the ability for us to have meaningful conversations when mistakes are made.
And so I think Sandi did a fantastic job of right away taking accountability for something.
Again, she didn't intend, to have this racial impact.
She's, again, using a phrase that, to Sabrina's point, is- is common in Australian sports, but has a totally different meaning, historical context in America.
And she recognized that mistake and addressed it, and that's what I think was, was the most important thing here.
Man, you, you lean into such an incredibly important part of this, the nuance of all of this, and also being able to hold two truths at once.
I love the way that you put that.
This is an incredibly charged space right now, the WNBA.
It's incredibly charged, and it requires another level of, another level of care and another level of vigilance when it comes to choosing your words, especially if you are white in this league right now, and, that's just the truth.
And in this moment, while Sandi Brondello is heated, she, I imagine, is thinking about Nneka Ogwumike suffering another injury, says something that Angel found to be of- offensive.
And I'll stop right there first and say it is in, in this incredibly charged space, I hate that Angel Reese continues to be in the midst of this.
It is so unfair.
Like, it is so unfair to have these players be caught in the midst of this excess that has nothing to do with their basketball.
And it's not just Angel Reese, but she is absolutely, since her, joining the WNBA, has been in the center of this, right?
It, it makes me think of some of the comments that were made, b- by Adam Silver about, you know, Caitlin Clark being a political football.
I feel like if you call Caitlin Clark a political football, you could call Angel Reese a racial football, right?
She's been kind of thrown around in these conversations, and I think that that's what made everyone especially sensitive to what was said by Brandy Sa- Sandi Brondello, excuse me.
I, I wanna ask you guys, about the suspension because this is a new precedent being set.
And I'll-- Before I ask you guys that question, I'll just say my, my thoughts really quickly.
Like, I- I've worked in the NFL before, and I'm very-- I was always aware of the concept of a quote-unquote "protected species" when it comes to quarterbacks.
It's been written before about quarterbacks, that they are a protected species in the sense of you can't touch 'em, you can't do anything to them, ex- X, Y, and Z.
So this was my first time as a Black woman in America who grew up in North Carolina, who has been called the N-word in multiple games, who has been called a monkey, who has had multiple things ex- experience a lot of racialized type of things.
This is my first time hearing the term protected species being said in general, but two, being said and interpreted as a racial thing.
I'd never heard that before.
And so this was like, I was kind of taken aback by how it was being interpreted.
I was like, "Oh, I wouldn't s- I wouldn't see that as a racial thing.
I would see it as sh- you can't do anything with her.
You can't touch her."
Right.
It's like an endangered species.
Like, there are laws against doing anything around Angel Reese, and that's how I had interpreted it.
But as I was reading comments and things of that nature, like, a lot of folks were talking about the, the idea of a species and AKA referring to a human as something less than human or separate of human, a scientific categorization, which then this is a particular unique example because in sports, we do this often.
All the time.
We talk about someone being a different breed.
Breed is another scientific kinda, you know, term to assess someone as you're being, You're rare.
You're, you're different.
But that's usually in a positive connotation, right?
We talk about people being beasts.
Beasts, right?
On the board.
Beasts, different, like breed, beast, these are words that were actually used to describe Black people, right?
Beasts, mongrels, like these were things that were used racially in the American South to negatively refer to Black people.
And so, and we know that in scientific terms back then as well, that the word species were w- w- ways in which white people justified treatment of Black people and treatment of them in, in health, in, in health circumstances and things of that nature, and how they assessed, you know, what pain they could go through or how- to assess their athletic ability, all the above.
Okay, I say all that to say I was surprised by it.
I did not interpret it in that way, but as I see the comments, I'm like, I understand.
I, I understand that some people were offended.
Now, let's get to the suspension because as you mentioned, Annie, Sandi Brondello immediately apologizes- Mm-hmm and she does it in the same way that she disrespected: publicly.
And that's usually always a problem is that disrespect is loud and disrespect is public, and then the- The apology comes quietly.
Mm-hmm.
The apology wants to be behind the scenes, and it's like that you can't do that.
So I did have a lot of respect for that, and I respected the fact that Angel Reese, you know, accepted that apology a- as well.
But the suspension was new for me, and I'm wondering how you all felt a- or not even, not just felt about it, but one, is there precedent for this?
So there is a, a kind of precedent here in that Curt Miller, who was the Connecticut Sun coach at the time in 2021, was fined $10,000 and suspended one game for language he used about Liz Cambage's size.
And that's obviously very different than what we're speaking of here, which again, goes back to that kind of conversation about intent versus impact.
Because- Right, right you make a great point, Zina, in that we use language often to describe players as s- other than human.
Um- Mm-hmm and in this case, you know, Angel explained that there was offense taken to this, that there was a, there was a problem here.
And I think it honestly opened up a larger conversation for a lot of people to see that there was a problem with using this, this word specifically, because I don't think many Americans understand, or what I saw in response to this was a lot of people being unaware of, of what the problem was here.
So anyways- in response to Sandy's suspension, I would say this to me seemed like the league taking an aggressive action because of the larger, you know, zoom out 500 feet circumstances surrounding the league.
They have been criticized for being on their back foot often- for not addressing the harassment, the, the language online, the racial slurs online.
And that is not at all to lump Sandy into that category.
But I think league leadership thought we need to address this immediately before there's any conversation about what is the league doing, is the league gonna do anything, et cetera.
And so again, intent versus impact.
The impact is what, you know, gave way to the suspension in m- in my opinion.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
What about you, Vic's Minute?
Yeah, and you think about all these situations where the league hasn't been able to protect its players, right?
Like the Chelsea Gray situation and, you know, all of the online harassment directed towards DeWanna Bonner and Alyssa Thomas, and I think the WNBA just saw an opportunity to have the back of one of its players, right?
Like, it's a lot easier to identify who was wrong in this situation with Sandy Brondello, and they have the wherewithal to levy a punishment at Sandy, like in a way that they can't to every online actor who is, you know, harassing one of their players.
So I think it was more an example of like, okay, we can get behind our player.
We can show Angel Reese that we have her back, especially in this very, very charged climate that we've been talking about.
And like Annie said, you know, Curt Miller was suspended for derogatory comments about a player, and I think this is a similar situation, right?
Sandy Brondello made derogatory comments about a player.
Yeah, did she intend them to be derogatory?
Like, that's again, intent versus impact, right?
Angel felt harmed by those comments, and so- Right Sandy did something wrong.
The league had the opportunity to create a punishment, and it did.
Yeah.
I think, too, this is where the standard is set now, right?
That's the question I have about the s- the, the suspension is like, okay, we n- we've seen this now.
Are you gonna be able to do it moving forward?
But I think the point to the fact that this is someone that they can directly assess and be able to punish versus, you know, what happened with Chelsea Gray and this obscure person coming into her DMs and using racialized language.
They can't go find that person and suspend them because they're just a rand- random human.
But- The WNBA fans did cause them to lose their jobs.
That was something.
Yeah.
That was something.
That was something.
That was noteworthy, yeah.
I, I gotta give a little applause for that.
Shout out to them.
But, I still feel like you do this, but you have to wait until Las Vegas l- sends out a press release around what happened to Chelsea Gray for then the league to say, "Yeah, we're with you."
Like, no, no, you lead the way, right?
Like, a- and so that's why I'm like these type of reactions, I'm kind of like, I, I don't know what to expect.
Like, you know, appreciate the apology and accept the apology.
The suspension has occurred.
Angel was pleased with that outcome as well, so she feels supported by the WNBA.
The WNBA, a lot of fans feel supported in that way.
There's a lot of fans that feel also that this suspension was, harsh and that maybe a fine would've been more appropriate in this situation.
I'm happy you guys brought up the Curt Miller example.
I think that that's a, a good ex- like, you know, comparison or metric to s- compare to, but this is gonna be very interesting to see what happens moving forward.
Now on this note, let's shift to another topic that has happened, around the league office because NBA Commissioner Adam Silver recently weighed in on WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert.
And Annie, you wrote about this, that Adam, you know, praised Cathy for the job that she's done growing the league, but when asked about her future, he kept mum, mum, right?
He didn't say much.
Did not commit to whether she's gonna stay on or not.
And he also declined to address some of the reports that he had been involved in another suspension, a WNBA disciplinary decision re- resulting in the suspension of Alyssa Thomas after her flagrant foul on Caitlin Clark, saying that it wouldn't be fair to Cathy or the players involved.
There was more that he said, and I wanna ask what you think that we should make or how you interpreted his comments, what people who are listening could make of his comments, and were they pretty, like, standard for who Adam Silver is, or was this like a, interesting for you?
So, my experience with Adam Silver is that he's a very direct person, and he oftentimes is very extensive in his responses.
What I was, or took note of I should say, is the fact that he did not deny the report from the Sports Business Journal that he interfered with Cathy, or the league's decision to suspend Alyssa Thomas one game.
Because again, my experience with Adam, if there's something he wants to clear up, he clears it up.
Mm-hmm.
He clears it up.
If there's an inaccuracy, if there's something that is wrong out there about him, about the NBA, he, he stands on it.
And so when he chose not to say, "That's not true.
I did not do that out of respect or protection for Cathy and Caitlin," I believe were his words, I was like, okay, so he did that.
He did get involved.
And I think that speaks to a larger conversation, which we've had here.
I mean, we've been saying Cathy is operating as commissioner of the WNBA, but she's ultimately stuck in a box that Adam Silver is constantly checking on.
She, you know, is, is under, serves under him.
And I think there are ways in which her wings are clipped in a certain way, and I wonder if because of that, she has checked out.
She has taken a step back in certain ways where people are like, "Why isn't she doing more?
Why isn't she more forward facing?
Why, why, why, why, why?"
Well, that's a whole area of this conversation that is really unclear exactly how much oversight Adam has, and exactly how much influence he has on her specific role.
And the other thing that I'll say about this is the, the scope, the microscope on the WNBA is only growing bigger and bigger with each passing year.
And because of that, it's exposing where the league has inefficiencies, where the league is imp- unprepared, where the league maybe needs to deploy more resources.
And I think these late responses, these no responses in the past are, are not a reflection of the league not caring or not- Mm-hmm thinking it should do something, but the fact that there are, are literally, they're, they're learning as they go.
They're, they're figuring it out as they go where to deploy who, what, where, when, and that's a problem.
Like, that's a problem.
This, this should've, th- these, these holes should not be there.
And because the microscope is as big as it is, the holes are getting exposed quite frequently.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Sabrina, this is such an interesting aspect of it, of we now have questions about where Cathy's leadership ends and where Adam's begins, right?
And I think about this Angel and Sandy situation, and the suspension, and it's kind of like, did Cathy have Angel's back?
Who was involved in this decision, right?
And these type, that, the comments from Adam Silver, if anything, now makes me look at that situation differently.
And the fact that he was the one that came in, and de- deployed the suspension for Alyssa, it's like, how does this, how does this work?
Who's making these type of decisions, and how much does Cathy's word, how much is Cathy's word taken in those type of decisions?
You've covered, obviously, the WNBA for a while.
This is the most that Adam's felt like he's a part of the conversation to me.
But what do you think about that?
Yeah, I mean, we've always known that Cathy Engelbert reports to Adam Silver.
Sure.
Like, he specifically hired her for the job in 2019.
The delineation of those roles has always been a little unclear, right?
Because of the ownership structure of the WNBA where it's owned 42% by the W, 42% by the NBA, and then 16% by that capital raise.
So yeah, I think the fact that we don't know which calls Adam makes, we don't know which ones Cathy makes, like that's always been a part of the, the stew.
It's just now they're being a little bit more public about, you know, where, you know, about that decision-making process.
Yeah.
But I just don't want it, like, to get overlooked that this is a very big week for Cathy, right?
Like- Right Annie wrote about this last week.
You're listening to this on Tuesday.
There is a meeting between players' union representatives and Cathy Engelbert and members of the league leadership about the online harassment issue, right?
Like, this was scheduled even before, what happened, I believe, with Chelsea Gray.
It was in response to the, Alyssa Thomas and Dewanna Bonner incidents.
Mm-hmm.
You know, the Angel briefing doesn't fall under online harassment, but it is under the general umbrella, umbrella of harassment that WNBA players face.
So that's something that Cathy's gonna have to preside over.
And then she has All-Star Weekend being hosted, right?
Where she will have to speak, which she has not done in a very long time, not since the WNBA draft, I believe.
And a lot of things have happened in the WNBA since the draft.
So she has to speak.
And she also has to, you know, host a weekend in Chicago where, like, there's kind of a spotlight on an ownership group that hasn't really fulfilled its end of the bargain in terms of leveling up the WNBA to the new standard that they're trying to achieve in this new CBA.
So there's a lot that she has to answer for right now, and the fact that it comes a week after- Her boss saying like, "We'll talk about her future later," instead of just saying, "Hey, she's doing a great job.
As for matters of her future, like, that's between me and Cathy," or like, you know, something else as opposed to like, "We'll talk about it later."
Yeah.
There's so many nicer ways that Adam Silver could have phrased that other than just like kinda hanging her out to dry, again, before a very, very big week for the commissioner.
I have no idea what's about to happen now, and I can't imagine what that feels like for Cathy.
I mean, obviously Adam is not her parent, but it is her boss, and he has influence over her future.
And you wanna feel confident going into a space in which you are going to be a face of the WNBA welcoming everyone in into another massive, WNBA All-Star weekend.
This is gonna be bigger than it's ever been, again.
And it, it does feel really uncomfortable.
And to all your points of, you know, to kinda close this out as we go close this conversation up, what is happening between the players and the commissioner and figuring out how to protect each other and, and, you know, I've Or excuse me, the league figuring out how to protect its players as they're just trying to do their jobs.
That is, is gonna be very interesting for us on the outside to watch and interpret and assess.
But people on the outside, people who are listening to this show, like, you're also a part of this.
Okay?
Like, you guys are a part of this.
And I was really flabbergasted, shocked to see the way people were talking to each other about this Angel Reese situation online.
Like, as you mentioned earlier, Annie, like the lack of-- There was a, there was a lack of understanding on both sides.
Like, there was a lack of you, you don't-- Trying to assess and trying to tell people how to assess the situation, how to assess the suspension, how to assess all of it, like, it was really, really toxic, communications.
And even when people were trying to explain, you know, why they felt, felt as- offense to this, people were going down their throats and being, saying that you're sensitive, you're this, that, whatever.
And when people were trying to exp- I mean, this is something that we say all the time in soccer, and this is not Sandy's, you know, intent.
People were going down their throats.
I mean, I saw Thembi Kgbenle be called a colonizer and all of these terrible words after she tried to defend her coach.
Um- Truly it was, it was really sad to see.
Like, really tough.
So I, if anything, like I really do hope this conversation with the players and the, the commissioner ends up being positive in some way.
But it ultimately is gonna come down to some things that they can't control, too.
Right.
Right?
And that's what's so hard is like they can put in all the protections in general, but that doesn't necessarily stop the people that are doing it from doing it, and the people that are really angry online.
And they are Oh, gosh, it's, it's just been tough.
Any, any thoughts on that to close it out?
Yeah.
Ignorance is, is, like- Rampant?
We can't Right.
We can't control the rampant ignorance that seems to be overtaking online discourse on a daily basis.
Because my question to all of that is why are you trying to explain to somebody why they should not be offended by something?
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Again, this is, this is, people trying to determine what should or should not be offensive to someone who's explaining where the offense comes from is, is mind-boggling to me.
And I think I do wanna give some benefit of the doubt in the sense of where some confusion seems to come in is, is what we touched on earlier in that we use language all the time to describe athletes as being superhuman.
Mm-hmm.
And so where is that line, right?
And that is a nuanced conversation, which is how we started this one of like the need to have more nuanced conversation.
Where we are not gonna have nuanced conversation is online.
Yeah.
And I think that's what needs to be accepted a little bit more is you are not going to convince BobtheBuilderXO4590 that this, that, or the other.
You're just not.
Yeah.
And it, it's exhausting.
Sabrina, you were with that?
I heard you laugh a little bit.
I think that's, I think that's a good place to put a button on it.
Yeah.
Agreed, agreed.
Well, we tried to have as much nuance in this conversation.
I hope, I, I would imagine the players and the commissioner are definitely going to go into that conversation, during All-Star weekend with positive intention in the hopes that they can figure something out.
I, for one, can't wait to see what happens, and it better not be no space for hate.
It better not be that campaign.
We need more than that, okay?
It better be something better.
All right, y'all, on the other side of this we're gonna do a little game.
We haven't played in a while.
Come right back.
Okay, y'all, it is time to play Two Takes and a Fake: a Fake: WNBA All-Star Edition.
I have three predictions and Annie, Sabrina, you two are gonna have to decide which two do you believe I actually think, which ones are legit, and which one is completely made up.
Okay?
You guys ready?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
My first take, I believe that the Stud Buds Twitch stream this year will not be as good as it was last year.
In fact, it will be considerably worse than what we saw last year.
All right.
That's take one.
Okay.
Okay?
Take two, I believe that the WNBA All-Star Games MVP will be Olivia Miles.
Okay?
Got it.
And then take three, I believe I believe that- God, is it already this one?
Well, well, what do you mean?
I didn't say anything.
Sorry.
I didn't say anything.
Sorry, sorry.
No, you're fine.
You're fine.
I believe that splitting Caitlin Clark and Paige Bueckers was the best part of the new, or, with like through the coin flip, was the best part of the new elements of the All-Star weekend, or the best outcome of the new elements.
Oh my God.
What are the new elements?
Like the GMs or- The GMs being- Okay the, yeah.
Like, yeah.
This is hard because these are all very believable takes for Mia.
Like, I was expecting one of them to be just egregious, like, and be like, oh my God, Zina- The- why did I think that?
The last one doesn't really feel like a Zina take to me.
Like, it's just so blah, you know?
What do you mean?
Because Zina takes are- I- very, like, fun and, usually not Caitlin/Paige related.
The only reason I was gonna say the last one is because of your reaction before you read it, so it was just like a little human tick where I'm like, ooh, is she laughing because she, she, this is already the one that she's uncomfortable with.
I don't think it's the first one, and I think, I think S- Look, we're- Olivia's gonna be- I wanna be clear, we're very pro-Stud Buds on this podcast, but their 2025 stream was iconic, right?
Like, there's no way it's gonna be as good this year.
It just can't be, especially with all, like, the, the hype and the fact that they're no longer teammates and probably, like, I, I don't think there's a lot of planning that goes into it, frankly.
That's part of the magic.
But like, you know, Nneka having to like wake them up for a CBA meeting, like, that's not gonna happen this year.
I don't know.
I just- Yeah, I'm gonna go with the last one because I think that you maybe wanted to see Caitlin and Paige together.
Damn it.
The one I- Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That is- Yeah.
Sorry, that is it.
Yeah.
That is actually it.
I think it sucks that they were separated.
I wanted to see what they look like together, because we had fun watching Angel and Caitlin last year.
Um- I was a little torn by the- I mean, last year, two years ago by the MVP being Olivia Miles just 'cause I know you're like a big at heart, and, like, you picking a little to win MVP is probably a little asymmetrical.
A little.
So that's, that's where I- You landed?
Kind of, you know, buzzed.
Yeah.
But we love Olivia Miles.
We love Olivia Miles.
Like, again, very pro-Olivia Miles Podcast, so Yes.
Yeah, no, my, my last take is a fake.
I do think- Mm-hmm I just fear for the Stud Buds situation, even though Natasha Cloud said that she's gonna be the one behind the camera again this year, it's, I think it's gonna be too produced.
And now that people know it exists, I feel like people are gonna be on their best behavior.
Yeah.
And that was the best part about the fact that it was just so uninhibited last year that it was just- Weird how you hear Kathy dancing on this year's Stud Buds Yeah, right?
She's the, she's now gonna be on the lookout, right?
Like, there's just, everybody's gonna have their guard up a little bit, and they're gonna see, like, oh, oh shoot, there's Courtney- I mean, Courtney Williams not knowing who Diplo was last year was perfect.
Yeah, there's gonna be so much, yeah.
I, so I just feel like it's gonna be a little too produced, and I just don't, I don't want that.
I hope not.
Prove me wrong.
Tell me I'm wrong, please, please.
But yeah, so definitely not, I, I agree with number one.
Two, I think Olivia Miles could do it.
I- Yeah, I do too I think she could absolutely be MVP.
She could be so much fun.
You talk about a game that is made for a player like her.
Truly.
Truly.
Right?
Like, the b- we're gonna see some crazy passes.
We're gonna see s- it's just gonna be too much fun.
So I'm definitely, I'm cheering for that.
And then, yeah, the last one, I'm like, this is A lot of people, the reason I brought that one up is because a lot of people were very much for Caitlin versus Paige, Caitlin versus Paige, like, "This is gonna be fun," whatever.
I'm like, no, this would've been more fun to see what they look like together.
You know why?
About to run back to USA Soccer.
There is a thing called Team USA, right?
Yeah.
We wanna see what that's gonna look like.
We want the preview.
Yeah.
So I'm actually bummed that this coin flip actually separated them.
And- So I don't think it was the coin flip.
I think it, they just always make- Or was it just- the two top vote getters among the fans, like the captains Oh, they separate them?
Yeah.
So like in previous years- That makes- it's been A'ja and Stewie okay, okay Right?
Last year- Right, right, right it was Caitlin and Napheesa.
So I think it's probably pretty likely, so long as they keep this format, that the two top vote getters are gonna be the leaders of their teams, like Caitlin and Paige are gonna be the two top vote getters, or could be the two top- vote getters for a lot of years.
Yeah.
Well, bummer.
That'll be, I would've loved to see that.
That would've been a lot of fun.
You know, someone, a new rookie's gonna come in and start taking a lot of votes, and all of a sudden- Yeah they no longer be the top two, and then you'll have them on the same team.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Yeah.
All right.
That was fun.
And Annie, yeah, you're right.
It was definitely a take 'cause I was like, "Oh, do I wanna say it?"
I know.
I don't know.
I was like, I was obv- Yeah I was waiting for it.
I'm like, I feel like she's gonna do something that's gonna give away her take.
I'm gonna be better- And then you laughed next time, guys.
I know.
I'm sorry.
I'll be better next time.
All right.
That's all for today.
Appreciate you guys playing the game with me.
Appreciate everyone being a part of this conversation.
Very much interested to hear what you guys think about this very crazy season that it's been, for all the headlines that have been going on.
But like also, what are your favorite basketball things that you wanna talk about as well?
Because there's so much going on around the league, and a lot of new names, new teams, all the above, every day doing something different.
So excited to keep covering it here at No Off Season, so make sure you're subscribed wherever you are listening.
Make sure you get that newsletter that drops every Tuesday, 'cause it also gives you a nice little roundup there.
And follow our show on YouTube.
Subscribe, people.
We look better in person.
Okay.
On behalf of The Athletic truth teller Annie Costabile and hoops savant Sabrina Merchant, I'm Zena Kita thanking you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kita with Chantel Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, Elijah Clarendon, and Annie Costabile.
It's produced by Tanika Burrell.
Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott.
Monica Compton is our video editor.
Our theme music is by Marcus Pagala.
Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at The Athletic.
Be sure to like and subscribe.
We drop new episodes every Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday.
