Brown on what makes Garrett so special
Orlando Brown Jr. joins Chris Simms Unbuttoned to discuss the Bengals' effort to create a "winning culture," why he trusts head coach Zac Taylor and his battles with Browns pass rusher Myles Garrett.
Video Transcript
Yeah.
Orlando Brown Jr.- Yeah, yeah ... our offensive line expert of the Chris Simms Unbuttoned show.
Yeah.
he's here, he's gonna hang out with us, talk some ball.
Man.
So I don't know if you know the story there.
I don't, I don't.
That was my first time hearing it.
So, so we were doing a playoff game a few years ago, Chiefs-Dolphins- Yes ... the freezing cold game.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taylor Swift walked into the game with this jacket on, an '87- Mm-hmm ... and it had all these And I was like, "Whoa, that is cool!"
Yeah.
Like, "Where is that jacket?"
And so time goes by, and I have all these people texting me, going, "Kristin Juszczyk, Kyle's wife, designs these jackets- Oh, wow.
... and that's where Taylor Swift got it from."
So I put it on blast, and I, I said it during halftime of the show- Oh ... and then her business exploded.
Yeah.
So I gave her some crap yesterday.
I was like, "You never tagged me in social media."
Yeah, I was about to say, "You gotta give some love off that."
You never gave me love or anything.
So I, I, I went at her yesterday, and she was a great sport about it.
No, that's great, bro.
It's a hell of a story.
Yeah.
Orlando, we're so happy to have you here, man.
Yeah.
And after a, you know, a rollercoaster season- Yeah ... for you guys- Yeah ... what, what is just gonna be normal for you?
Yeah.
It feels like you- Yeah ... it's hard to just get a rhythm, whether it's the injuries or the chaos or whatever it is.
There was plenty of good moments- Yeah ... but what has it been like going through such a turbulent kind of season?
Yeah, it's, it's tough, man.
you know, it's, it's never, it's never fun losing.
It's never easy losing.
you know, you put so much time into this sport in the off-seasons and throughout the course of a season and a work week, to go out there and prepare for a game, to go out there and play your best, and, when you come away with a loss, it's obviously gut-wrenching.
And so, man, this season, it was a tough one for us with Joe getting hurt- Yeah ... hurt there early against Jacksonville.
it was somewhat, you know, I wanna say a freak injury with how it happened to him.
but, you know, man, I think, I think that's part of our locker room culture that's continued to build.
And so, to me, what you'll see moving forward in future years is, is a battle-tested group.
And so, I think our, our locker room got much closer this year.
guys spending time with each other off the field, all of those things.
All of that is so important when you talk about building the right culture to be able to establish a winning culture.
Y- you guys gotta be going a little crazy, 'cause it's like two years ago, it was like- Yeah ... if they, the Bengals, got in, like, who knows- Yeah ... what would've happened?
Yeah, look out.
We were all going like, "Man, I don't They might be playing better football than anybody."
Yeah.
This year- Yeah ... it kind of felt like that was about to happen again.
Yeah, yeah.
Joe comes back- Yeah ... Thanksgiving, you guys are probably like, "Uh-oh- Yeah ... here we go."
Oh, yeah.
Right?
Yep.
But, like, what do you guys gotta do to fix the early part of the year?
What is it, in your assessment, that's just a little off in that part of the season?
Yeah, well, you know, this year we won the first two games- Yeah, right ... which, which was, uh- Yeah ... you know, a little bit different, for us.
And then we had some, some really bad ones in there, man, with Minnesota, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay.
I mean, we played a gauntlet, though you know what I mean?
You did, no doubt.
But, but yeah, I To me, man, it just comes down to figuring it out, figuring out how to do it.
And, there's a bunch of things that go into it.
To me, it starts with us as players taking accountability, understanding, the, the amount of urgency that it takes.
And, you know, that stuff starts in April.
That starts in training camp or, or the work week, or whatever, whatever that may be, man.
But it start- it starts with us as players taking accountability to play harder and play better in those situations.
R- right off of that, too, just because, like, would you ever go Zach Taylor, they've been in the Super Bowl, I know that.
He's a damn good coach, all of that.
But at the same time, would you ever go, like in Kansas City, Andy Reid and them are, like, famous for starting fast, right?
Oh, yeah.
Would, would Zach Taylor, or would you ever go to him and kind of be like, "Hey, we used to do this at training camp, and maybe that'll help us," or- Yeah ... is there any conversations like that?
Yeah, I mean, I got so much trust in Zach- Yeah, yeah ... and, and how he operates.
you know, I personally never feel the need to do that because, Coach Taylor's created his own success, you know what I mean?
Right.
They've, they've been to a Super Bowl, they've won a ton of playoff games, they've been in the two AFC championships.
And, you know, I, I love, I love our schedule and what we do.
You know, I, I, I really don't think that, fing- I could point fingers to coaches and say, you know, or our schedule or how we operate.
I think it really just comes down to players taking real accountability.
And, you know, you look around the league, for example, you look at the New England Patriots, who are in the Super Bowl, I heard Mike Vrabel state something, early, early in the season, I think their social media team posted it.
And he said that, "Not everybody has the same personality in our locker room- Yeah ... but they've all g- they're all looking to achieve the same goal."
Right.
And I can deal with the, you know- Yeah ... the F words.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
But, to me, that's what it comes down to, man, is, is players taking accountability, buying into each other, buying into the culture, and saying, "Hey, we gonna do this- we're gonna do this no matter what."
Because there is no coach that's gonna give you the perfect answer to go out here and win a Super Bowl, you know, no matter if it's Bill Belichick or, Vince Lombardi, so One of the highlights of the year, though, the Thanksgiving win- Oh, man ... over the Ravens.
Special, it was amazing.
We gotta- No, it was special ... we gotta relive the turkey after the game, because this is- You, I don't, I don't know if you've actually watched this back, but take a look at the turkey eating after this game- Oh, my gosh ... when Joseph Ossai had a little bit of problems with it.
I mean, this, this is a tough one, man.
Were you playing for that turkey leg?
I just Oh, no.
I don't know.
We need some water.
We need some water!
I started eating too soon.
Yeah.
You all right?
Swallow that, and I wanna know what was said.
Yo, yo.
Who said something to this defense before this game tonight?
I said, "They're trying to take something from us.
Don't let 'em!"
I, I I don't, I, I mean, I don't even know where to start, 'cause me and Ossai- He's a Texas guy.
Yeah, he's a Texas guy.
Like me.
That, that Yes, I know.
Yeah.
It's- don't even get me started .
We're, we're a little smarter than you are, you guys.
I'm not even go- I'm not even diving into it, man.
For one, he's a Texas guy.
For two- ... we battle against each other every single day in training camp, man.
obviously, with Trey holding out or, or Trey not being there, I mean, this is the defensive end that I'm going against every day.
And so, you know, me and him have a funny relationship, and I just remember standing there, and I'm like, I couldn't understand what the hell he was saying.
Yeah.
I was like, "Bro, what is going on?
There's no way she understands."
He was going through it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I, I felt he definitely was choking on a turkey leg, so- Did you get in on that?
Uh- Did you get in on the turkey leg like that?
you know what?
I tried the turduck- durkin.
Am I saying that right?
Yeah, turducken.
Turducken.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty good.
It was all right?
I liked it.
It is good.
Yeah, I liked it.
Are you ever telling TV if it's actually, like, enjoyable?
Exactly, 'cause I'm always, like, "It's probably cold."
How long has it been sitting there?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, the turduck- turducken was hot.
It was hot?
I think that turkey leg was cold, though.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, that was a cold turkey leg.
Damn, I would want no piece of that.
I'm good.
All right, eating, eating for you, s- like, are you, you, you eat anything?
Yeah.
I'm, I'm- It is as advertised- Yes ... you will eat anything?
Yeah, so- All right ... so I'll tell you this: so, last year was my first year.
I hired a full-time nutritionist.
It's Joey B. Shout out Joey B for helping me out in Nashville, going, go- Damn, so your quarterback's Joey B- Yes ... and your cook's Joey B. Yeah.
All right.
So no, but So it's funny, so he, he introduced me to my, my my, my nutritionist that I have, man, and she's helped me so much.
And so there are foods that, you could say bring on inflammation markers- Yeah ... so like dairy, oats, carrots, beets.
Right.
So I don't eat stuff like that.
Wow!
but there's, like- Wow ... mackerel.
I can't eat mackerel.
so there's food like that, that I can't eat, but other than that, it's pretty much fair game.
Man, so you, you look at you and like the TB12 method over here.
Yes.
You're going there.
Yeah, I'm trying to do this till I'm 40, man.
A lot of years.
I was just gonna ask, how long do you wanna play?
I wanna play till I'm 40.
Yeah.
Ideally, yeah.
I mean, we saw Andrew Whitworth- Yeah ... make it to, I think, about 40 years old.
We've seen- Forty-one, I think.
Yeah, we've seen offensive line- Jackie Slater, Jackie Slater did it- Yeah ... for 20 years.
How old are you right now?
29.
I'll be 30 in May.
Yeah.
I mean, that's unbelievable.
Yeah.
But yeah, you can do it, for sure.
Yeah.
You got the footwork.
You're not gonna get smaller.
Yeah.
That's for sure.
Yeah, I know.
That's, that's, that's the beauty of it, though.
I think I got a sustainable style of play, and so I don't really rely on my athleticism, you know, and that's That, that to me is, that's gonna help me be able to extend my career.
Yeah, what do you mean you don't rely on your athleticism?
Yeah.
What do you mean by that?
Well, I'm, I'm not a guy where you're gonna turn on the tape and I, I play more athletic than, than I tested- Yeah ...
I think, I al- No doubt about that.
Yeah, always have, I mean.
Yeah, right.
But just in terms of no wasted motion- Yeah ... in my footwork and in my pass set or my run game footwork, you know, the way that I play, you know, and finishing guys, it's not I don't put a ton of strain on my body- Right ... you know, in terms of, just not having a, a long-term, sustainable style of play.
And I don't wanna call any players out, but there are players like that, who come in, their first three years, it's lights out, and by year four to four to six, they start beginning to fizzle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right, all right.
when did you realize that?
Yeah, yeah.
I have to cut you off- Yeah, you're good.
Go ahead ... but like, 'cause I can't imagine going into the NFL at 22, 23, some guys even younger.
Yeah.
Everybody feels invincible at that age.
Yeah.
So when was it for you, like, "All right, I gotta do something a little different here if I actually wanna make it to 40 in this league?"
Yeah, I, I don't know how much time we got, but I'll, I'll have to take it back to, college for me because, I mean, if you think I tested bad at 22 years old, I could- you can only imagine at 18- Yeah ... what I looked like showing up on campus.
And so, I learned I had to learn right away that it was gonna be, my sustainability that gave me that opportunity, to earn a starting role there.
one, one of the, one of the, the main things that helped me earn a starting role was that, my sustainability.
And so I knew that, man, I'm not the best athlete.
I never really have been.
And so playing in the Big 12 at the time, we were playing these big bowl games and playoff games, I would go against elite talent, and I learned early, man.
We played Texas- Yeah ... my freshman year.
Right.
Redshirt freshman year, got our got kicked, got We got dogged.
Yeah.
I remember Malik Jefferson, at the time, beat me, for a sack in two minute, and it was to end the game, and so in the Red River Rivalry.
And yeah, that was, that was humbling for me, and I think it was that moment where I said to myself Because I was so exhausted.
At that point in time, I was trying to be athletic.
I'm running off the ball.
I'm just k- just taking a pass set without true fundamentals.
for me, that was when I, I got humbled, and I realized, "You know what?
Let me find I gotta find something that help me sustain, and help me go through the course of a 60-minute game being as explosive as I can be, as efficient as I can be."
What do you do in the off season now?
Yeah.
Like to train.
Are you a, just a weightlifter for, for the time being, or do you- Yeah.
Yeah, so right- What else do you do?
Yeah, so right now, I spend all my time in Cincy, man.
I, I, I love, being there in Cincy.
For me, it's, it's the mental part of the game that allows me to stay in there for year-round and full-time, just allows me to keep my state of mind in the right spot.
but right now, man, I, I spend a lot of time lifting.
when I get back, this week, or when I get back starting next week, I'll start hitting the field more and start running and things like that, but- You got hands?
For sure.
Like, can they line you up?
Can you catch a ball and go up the sideline?
Oh, catch, okay, I thought you were talking about- And you- ... throwing fish.
If, well, I know you can do that.
Yeah, I, I could throw fish.
Yeah, but- ... in terms of catching a ball, no.
No, there's no chance.
That's why coach has not put me out there for it.
But if they wanna give me the ball, coach knows this pitch, you know this, give me a fullback dive.
There we go.
Just hand the ball off on fullback dive.
You want- Best case scenario.
You want fullback dive.
Give me the William Perry, 85 Bears, right over the goal line.
Give me that one.
Well, talk about the Cody Ford catch, like- Oh, my gosh ... and just how that went down.
Like, did- For sure ... first off, was, how long in the making was this, a- about the, the big offensive lineman lining up a receiver?
So it's so much behind it.
it literally, we put that in on a Wednesday, I believe, and that, we ran that on a Sunday.
So we called it three times before that.
I believe once was live, two times in walkthrough on both sides.
And man, you know, Cody Ford is one of my best friends.
We went to Oklahoma together.
And, you know, it's, it's ironic that he played against the Cardinals, which is who I believe the catch was against, and so- Yeah ... yeah, Joe threw it to him each time, and for some reason, he told me he got out First of all, I didn't realize he was in the huddle.
We hear like- I, I play offensive line.
I hear personnel- Right.
Yeah.
I hear formation.
I'm, I'm not necessarily diving into it too deep- Yeah, yeah, right ... unless it's situation-based.
Right.
Like, if it's third and three, and I see Mike Gesicki running on the field, I know we're passing that ball.
Yeah.
But, like, at that point in time, I think it was first or second down, I'm like, "Yeah, Big, Big 12," or whatever our personnel is.
Cody comes in, I- it didn't even click to me that we called jet, and Cody was outside wide.
And so when he caught the ball, man, I was I mean, you would've thought he scored the way we celebrated as a team.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
We have the tweet, too, from you.
"I've once seen Cody Ford outrun a wild pit bull with a 24-pack of beer in his arms.
They were glass bottles."
Insane.
"Athlete."
Insane.
Insane, yeah.
Yeah, no, I, I, I can't go too deep into this story.
That was the Oklahoma story in college?
But this is an Oklahoma story.
Right, right.
Yeah, no, this is, let's just say he was intoxicated during that, too, man.
Well, yeah, of course.
Special.
I mean, we would've thought that.
Special talent.
I would've been disappointed in you guys at OU- Yeah ... if you weren't, all right?
I'd have been like, "Damn, what are you doing down there at OU?"
That's great.
all right, let's dive into some other stuff.
Right.
They got the new award, which I think is cool- Yeah ... like the Protector of the Year for the offensive line.
You're, you're a student- Yeah.
Yeah ... you're a student of the game.
Yeah.
That's why we got you on here, I mean, really.
but we got, let's see, Miami, Aaron Brewer.
Baller.
Right?
Yeah.
Creed Humphrey.
Baller.
Baller, right.
There you see it.
Yeah.
Garrett Bolles.
Baller.
Quinn Meinerz.
Meinerz.
Well, I can never say his name right.
I, as soon as I see his picture- Just please.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, you got- Yeah ... you got me.
Penei Sewell- Yeah ... and Joe Thuney.
Yep.
Right?
Yeah.
Right, what- who jumps out to you?
Who, who's the guy that you'd go- It's honestly a great list, man.
Aaron Brewer is very underappreciated.
Right.
I'm glad that he's on this list, because he's a guy that's played so He played so well this year- Right ... and has, and has, really grown as a pro, too, man.
I got so much respect for him and his game.
Uh- And then being, like, what?
285 pounds.
I'd say he's 280, yeah.
Yeah, I know, yeah, he's like 280, yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
No, I mean, he's just- I've never seen anything like it.
Yeah, he's, he's, he's different.
He's different.
but, you know, it's All of those guys have potential to win it.
Yeah, deserving, right.
But to me, man, I'm, I'm gonna go with the, with my veteran guy, my veteran left guard, who I had for two years in Kansas City, Joe Thuney, man.
He, he had a, he's had a, he had a hell of a season this year, and he finished out that, that last game there at left tackle, which is extremely hard to do, asking a guy to play any other position than the one that he mains.
and so for him to go out there and do that, man, and then had a season that he had this year, I'm, I'm giving it to Joe Thuney.
How much did you check out?
Like, did you get to see Garrett Bolles, a fellow left tackle- Oh, yeah ... like, just so much out there?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, man, I got so, so much, so much respect for Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I watch a lot of, watch a lot of ball, man, and Garrett Bolles is another guy that, to me, just has continued He has such a high ceiling and even a high floor.
he's just continued to develop over the years.
And, you know, when you can, when you can do that in this league, and you're 32, 33 years old, and you're only getting better, I think that says so much about who he is as a man.
How about your, the Super Bowl, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The O-lines, just start there.
I, I know you- Yeah ... played New England- Yeah ... so I don't wanna a- ask you about that yet.
Yeah.
But just about how do you kind of view New England's O-line and Seattle's O-line?
Yeah, man, you know, so, ironically, Morgan Moses, when I would train in Miami, I spent a significant amount of time around him.
We would train together for- Right ... two off-seasons there.
so I mean, man, I, I'm, I'm really rooting for him, you know, in terms of just how far he's come in his career.
to have this type of opportunity this late in his career is special.
but I think they both are, are, are good groups.
You know, I mean, obviously you got Will Campbell there at left tackle for New England, which is- Which has been a little bit of an issue.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
You know, but, but it's, it's, playing tackle in this league is tough.
Yeah.
And then pass protecting in this league as a left tackle is really, really tough.
It's insane.
And so, there are certain intangibles that, you know, I think, top tackles may have that he doesn't have.
And so it's gonna take a little bit of time for him- Back to the arm length thing that we talked about- The arm length ... yeah Yeah ... during the draft process- Yeah ... when we were on, right?
And so, yeah, and so those things, those things have shown up for him here, but who's to say that he's not gonna work his ass off this off-season- Right ... and get better at that?
Right.
you know, I think I've seen growth throughout the season this year, f- with him, and, and, man, I got, I got a lot of respect for him, just, just in terms of his focus day-to-day.
You could tell that, you know, the way that he works, man, his, his, his games, for me, personally, I feel like they've only gotten better, and his fundamentals have gotten better as the season's gone.
Seattle's offensive line, another great group.
What's the toughest part of this Patriots' defense?
'Cause it- Yeah ... it feels more of a unit rather than superstars.
Yeah, yeah.
That, and that's foot- that's NFL football, man.
Right?
And that's, that's, that's winning, that's winning football, and, and no matter how we look at it with the previous winners, whether that be Kansas City, Philadelphia, you know, I think that, that's what it comes down to, is the best unit.
And so their defensive line plays really, really good together.
You know, you watch these guys rush, guys are covering guys, you know, and that's Cover is, is a term that they use in their room, where, let's just say Caleb VanJaycen goes inside, Barmore is wrapping him.
Right.
You know, and that might not be a called rep, but they have great feel for each other, and they got great understanding for the flow of a game.
And so when you got a defensive line that's really paying attention to the match-ups- Yeah ... and the flow of a game- Right ... it creates real issues.
Right.
And so to me, that's where they excel as a, as a team, is their defensive line plays so well together, and the linebackers in the run game do a great job fitting off of these- Yeah, right ... these two tackles.
Right.
I mean, that's, that's, that's where they're really strong at.
All right, so, like, b- give me the So whose offensive line do you give the edge to?...
Where would you go there?
Oh, gosh, man.
It's a tight one.
The Auburn-Georgia one, right?
It is really tight.
It is really tight.
but I'm gonna go with, Seattle's system.
Okay.
You know, I'm gonna go with Seattle's system, man.
I think, you know, just the way that they call a game over there base- and the players that they have, it'll be in their favor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Defen- defensive line, right?
from a defen- yeah, from a de- yeah, from a, from a perspective of the position- Yeah ... that Seattle's gonna put New England's defensive line in, I think, I think it And New England versus Seattle's defensive line- Yeah ...
I think Seattle's offensive line is gonna be in a better position.
They'll, they'll be able to handle it a little bit more.
For sure.
They, they really, it's, it's really, with New England, they're unique.
You talk about a good defensive line, it's not about the pass rushers necessarily- Yeah ... as much as it is- Yeah ... Barr-More and Milton Williams on the inside, right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, big time.
Right.
Yeah, 'cause when you have interior rushers that are elite like that and can push the pocket inside, and, you know, Caleb VanChasen, just how he's played.
I think even Anthony Jennings, man- Yeah ...
I feel like he had a great game against Denver.
you know, just, just how, just how those guys are able to play together and push the pocket inside, man, I mean, it helps someone outside so much.
Have you, last two years, have you played against Seattle?
You didn't get them last year either, did you?
No, I played them in '23.
Okay.
I played them in '22.
So you haven't got Have you got to You haven't seen Byron Murphy Jr., I guess, in person yet, right?
I have not.
No, I have not.
No, but he's, he's different, though.
Yeah, right.
He's different.
Yeah.
And Leonard Williams- He's good ... you ever had to mess with him yet in person?
yeah, I've played him, uh- Yeah ... Giants and the Jets.
Right.
yeah, but he's, I mean, he's another one that's, like, real deal, and he's, he's found his- he's found an even different version of himself- Right Totally ... in Seattle.
He's gotten better.
Right.
He's better.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
And, you know, I got, I got, I, I really like how he's played this season, man.
He's been really good.
You have a pick for this game?
A, a feel for e- a, a side?
I, I'm just, it's hard.
'Cause you sound like you're with us, or you're like- Yeah ... you're leaning Seattle.
Yeah.
Right?
I mean, I don't wanna- Right ...
I, I don't wanna pick anybody.
I just, like, I'm a huge fan of the storylines in football.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what Sam Darnold has been through as a pro, to get to this point and be able to overcome and shut up a lot of haters, yeah, man, I'm, I'm rooting for him.
You know, same thing with my guy Morgan Moses in New England.
Yeah.
I'm rooting for him, so So we know you're here with, Breakthrough today.
Right.
Yeah.
You were named Cincinnatian?
That's what I just wanted to say.
Yeah.
Cincinnatian of the Year?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Man!
Really special, man.
Really special.
Wow, that is awesome.
Yeah, yeah.
I do a, you know, I do a ton of work with, Type 1 diabetes, and so, you know, for me, just being able to, to give back to that c- part of, part of the community is really special to me, man.
My brother is a Type 1 diabetic.
He was diagnosed at eight years old.
I was nine at the time when he was diagnosed, and so, I've seen it, you know, firsthand.
And, and I get to college, and Mark Andrews is a Type 1 diabetic, and so, you know, I'm, I'm getting to know him, and, and, and all these things, man.
So, you know, it's been a, been a mainstay in my life, and I just wanna be able to give back, healthy energy into it.
That's awesome, man, that you do that.
I mean, it really doesn't get any better than that right there, man.
Yeah, yeah, very special.
Thank you.
You're good people.
Thank you.
You are, you are that.
I, I, I mean, I gotta ask you the other thing about this- Yeah ...
Miles freaking Garrett.
Oh, yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah, oh, yeah.
I mean, that was against you guys.
Yeah, I know.
It was against me.
You know?
I know!
Yeah.
And you must have- Yeah ... been like- Yeah ... d- I mean, he timed the snap count.
Oh, he did.
Right?
Yeah.
No, and he knew, man, he knew.
I, I think he, I think he actually came out and said that he knew it was his last one-on-one in the game.
He came up on our show- Yeah, he said that, right?
... on the pregame on Football Night in America.
Yes, on the FaceTime.
He said to Marie Taylor, he goes, he goes, "If I don't get it right here, I might never get a single the rest of the game."
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, and so, he kinda knew that, man, and, and, he did a great job.
I mean, he jumped the snap incredibly.
I thought I jumped the snap.
I look over, he's already two steps in the ground.
Yeah.
It was crazy.
He really It was, like, almost borderline offside- Yeah ... he got off so good.
But, but, you know, that's football, man, and so, you know, I hate that obviously he did that against me, the competitor in me.
but like I said, man, I mean, Miles Garrett is the best defensive end of our generation.
Yeah, you're right.
There's nothing to be ashamed of.
There's no shame in that.
Yeah.
Nothing.
I think there's actually something cool about it.
Yeah.
Honestly, when you- Yeah ... it might be like you about to get in the recliner a little older- Yeah, yeah ... and you're gonna go- "Yeah, I had some battles with that guy-" Oh, for sure. "
I'm okay being in that highlight right there."
Yeah, yeah, for sure, man.
No, I got a lot of respect for him, man.
I mean, he's, he's different.
He's different.
You kind, you kinda, you kind- you played really good against him that day.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, he made that play, and yeah, that's all it comes down to, man, so.
When, when that gets called right there- Yeah ... are you like, "Oh," like- Yeah ... "They don't wanna help me out here on this one-on-one chip?"
No, no.
The way that I saw it is- Yeah ...
I knew, I knew he knew that.
Right.
So I'm- I knew he knew that.
And like, I'm not, I'm not an idiot.
No.
I've played against this guy so many times.
I mean, that had to be our ninth matchup, I feel like.
Right.
and so I'm, I'm, I hear the play call, I'm getting in my stance, and I'm never looking for help, to be honest.
but I knew he, I knew he knew it was gonna be his last one-on-one, so I tried to get off the ball well.
He jumped it better than me, and yeah, man, I mean, it just, just kind of the flow of the game is what happened.
What, what's the thing he does that's like your, your biggest problem with him, right?
Like, what- Yeah, I- ... what's he gotten you with a few times?
I, I think everyone struggles with the same thing with him, is he's so big, and he, he's, he's pigeon-toed and knock-kneed when he rushes, and so everything feels like power.
Yeah.
And he's- Right ... also extremely explosive, to where you think, you know, maybe he's going upfield, and he can explode off his pinky toe into an inside move and gain five yards or five yards of space.
Right.
And so, to me, it's his change of direction that makes him so unique with his size combination, man.
It's like e- everything feels like it's speed to power, and then he transitions really well.
Definitely the best pass rusher you've gone against in your career?
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to argue if there's a better pass rusher in the history of the NFL.
I mean, I think- It's up that night- Yeah ... for you.
I think if we turn on the tape, we can talk about Aaron Donald, Miles Garrett, Bruce Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Deacon Jones.
Yeah, and that combo.
I don't know if there's- Yeah.
I mean, Miles Garrett is, is the best to me by far of all of them, and I respect all of those guys, of course.
You're, you're not So a- I'm, I'm just interested, and you know, I'm fanboying here- Yeah ... 'cause I love hearing you talk about this stuff.
Michael Parsons you don't think is quite there?
Oh, he's a great player, too.
I know.
I know that.
Oh, yeah.
But Yeah, but yeah, he's a great player.
I think- He's smaller.
He's smaller.
He is smaller.
So he's a different matchup for you, right?
Yeah, yeah, he is, he is.
And so for me, going against a guy like Michael Parsons, it's- it's a different kind of battle.
You know, the issues that he presents, it's still, change of direction, but he does a good job of figuring out how to maneuver once you get your hands on him.
Ah, right, right.
And so although he is small, he's stronger than you think- Yeah ... and he does a great job playing within his, his hips and his feet.
He's never really out of, out of whack.
Yeah.
He's not, not balanced, you know what I mean?
He, he may feel that way in your hands, but he does a great job escaping and, and getting away.
So you- I have- whenever I'm playing him, I gotta make sure that, my, my hips and feet are underneath me, I'm in position to be able to remove and remove and replace hands, and counter inside and out.
Since you've gotten to the league, have you noticed the pass rusher evolve?
Oh, yeah.
Because it feels like the testing has gone up three tiers in the last six years.
Yeah.
The athleticism is insane.
Yeah.
But some of these guys are the weight of a 3-4 defensive end as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, have you noticed it evolve over time?
Oh, for sure, for sure.
And, and, you know, it's, it's caused, you know, different people, different type of body types to be drafted at the offensive line position as well.
Right, right.
So- And, yeah, man, I mean, I've been a part of the transition.
I remember, you know, this is so funny, I'm gonna have to name drop, but, you know, I remember being a rookie and going against Frostee Rucker, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
That, that was, you know, a, a tougher opponent, but at the time, you know, so late in his career, the lesser of the tougher opponents.
You know, you're telling me my, my least toughest opponent is, a Bradley Chubb or, or a Aidan Hutchinson these days.
You know what I mean?
Right, right.
These guys are Pro Bowl, All-Pro level players, man.
Right, right.
And so, you know, any time that, you know I, I think the way that the, the defensive line position has transitioned in terms of just finding these elite athletes has, has caused a lot of issues, so.
Well, it, it feels like within that, too, I, I don't know, the tackle position, did that change, too?
Yeah.
Like, I feel like I'm gotten to a place where when you were coming out, I was a little like, "I don't know if I like the guys that big and all that."
Oh, yeah.
I was a- Yeah ... first of all, I was a fan of yours.
Yeah, I appreciate you.
I already was like, the, the, the hell with the 40 time and all that crap.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
But I wasn't into it.
Like, now when he hears me talk about tackles, I'm like- Yeah ...
I want the biggest freaking dude in the world.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Right?
For sure.
Right.
And, and it's, it goes back to what I've talked to you about when we talk about offensive line play in this league.
Yeah.
It comes down to intangibles.
And so when you have a guy that is like a Marius Mims, who has incredibly long arms, who is a freak athlete, who moves very well, in tight spaces, has great change of direction, he has all of the natural intangibles that you can coach fundamentals off of on this, in this, on this level, to be able to block elite defenders.
Yeah, right.
And so what we're seeing now in the NFL is not only is it the fast guy, it's the big, fast guy that can bend well.
Yeah, right.
And so when you have that raw combination as a defensive lineman- Yeah ... it presents its own issues.
And if you aren't long enough to be able to deal with those guys on the edge, it creates a lot of problems.
All right, well, we gotta let you go.
Oh, that's sad.
I mean, as much as we don't want to- Okay ... you are the Cincinnatian of the Year and all that.
That's right!
Yeah.
Right?
Thanks.
It's pretty important.
And you're, you're our O-line expert.
Appreciate you.
But thanks for coming out and hanging out with us.
Of course, of course.
Thank you guys.
As always.
Thanks, Orlando.
Thank you guys, appreciate you.
We love you, man.
Y'all the best, too.
You're not getting rid of us, just so you know.
I know.
You know?
Okay, yeah, well, just let me know if you need more time.
I'm, I'm around here walking around somewhere.
Okay, either way.
Yeah.
And we're gonna get you when it comes to draft and all that stuff.
Please do, please do.
All right.
Oh, yeah, I'm ready to go.
All right, awesome.
Yeah, appreciate you.
