Can the Bull Run Continue?!?
Gordy Bonker dives into the state of the market and wonders if we can continue on the bull run we've been on for the last 18 months or so. Plus, there were massive auctions wrapping up at REA and Goldin last week and a new big one at Heritage this week. We wrap up with Drew Hester from Greg Morris Cards!
Video Transcript
We did get Willie Mays's underwear from somebody once, signed.
Oh my God.
I had to decline that.
So we do get some wonky stuff out there, but- Where does somebody even get Willie Mays's underwear?
I don't know.
I know we're a, we're a proud partner with eBay, so that'd be a really weird one to explain if I ever listed it up there on eBay.
But yes.
Oh my God.
What is going on, guys?
And welcome in to another episode of the "Gordie Bonker Show."
This week on the show, I'm very excited to dig deeper into what's going on in the vintage card market.
We're gonna be talking about some of the crazy results that came through in this past Sunday's REA auction.
Gonna be doing a look ahead to this weekend's closing auction at Heritage.
Keep in mind, we're right in the middle of the heat of the summer auctions, with some of the biggest sales of the year being recorded while the hobby is hitting its stride, certainly for the seasonality of the year, but also we're approaching all-time highs across a number of different categories in the card market, and I wanna make sure that you guys are getting informed and in the loop on everything related to the vintage sports card sales.
I'll talk a little bit about some of the big deals that I've been doing lately.
My live shows on eBay have been absolutely crushing it.
I really appreciate everybody who's joined it.
I've got the next date for the Bonkers Cards Club set, so we got a great show ahead today.
Very excited to get into it.
And before I do that, I wanna thank today's sponsors.
I wanna thank my sponsor, VCP, vintagecardprices.com.
You guys probably, as you're listening to this, will, be able to read my latest newsletter that I dropped for VCP.
You can check it out, go to vintagecardprices.com.
Use promo code BONKERS, get a two-week free trial, and, check out the Jackie Robinson versus Mickey Mantle market article that I published there.
I'm gonna put it on my Substack as well.
If you guys aren't subscribing to my newsletter, make sure you're checking it out at bonkerscards.substack.com.
Join the Bonkers Cards Club, and my invite for the club meeting should be coming out in the next couple days for the end of this month.
So lots of good stuff coming there.
And then also wanna shout out Greg Morris Cards.
My interview today will be with Drew Hester of Greg Morris Cards.
Drew is one of my favorite people in the hobby.
I know you guys are gonna absolutely love the interview with Drew.
If you go to card shows regularly, you've probably seen his face before.
He's what I call him, the hardest working man in the hobby.
Is always at every show, has great insight into the overall strength and quality of the market.
Greg Morris Cards is who I use for a lot of my consignments, especially with the raw cards.
They process so much inventory.
They are truly best in class at what they do, and I'm just a big believer in their brand.
So I'm very fortunate to have a great partnership with Greg Morris Cards.
If you guys have consignments or any cards that you're looking to sell, really, make sure you email me, Gordie, at bonkerscards@gmail.com.
I'll take a look at the collection.
I can make the introduction to Greg Morris Cards if I think that the collection is best suited for a consignment with them.
We get into a little bit the consignment process, some of the crazy things that Drew has been asked to consign to him in the past in the interview as well, like I said.
Think you guys are gonna love that interview.
But we'll get right into this, this week's show and some of the top of the news for me in my world.
Very excited, guys.
This week brokered a big deal.
First, I'd say, the last few weeks anyway, I've had my head down so much in content and everything going on after the National.
There was a couple of really big broker deals that I was close to closing, didn't get closed.
It's been a crazy, couple weeks, but I did get one down.
This deal came super fast together on Sunday for a signed nineteen fifty-two Bowman Mickey Mantle.
This is a absolutely gorgeous example of this card.
So much a vintage era-- or so much a vintage signed card.
This is not a vintage era signature of Mantle's.
You can tell from the blue Sharpie marker and just the signature on Mantle, Mantle's card here, that this was post-career signature.
But so much of the valuation of signed vintage cards goes into the eye appeal of the card, and this specific copy is just an absolutely stunning example.
Was really, really excited to get to work on this deal.
I wanna give a huge shout-out to Steven, for purchasing and trusting me to get this deal done on the card.
The card popped up over the weekend.
It was a card that I have been looking for, helping him with for some time, so being able to find the right nineteen fifty-two Bowman signed Mickey Mantle card for his collection was awesome.
If anybody's ever interested in looking for high-end specific vintage cards, I'm always happy to help clients with it.
This, this example, fifty-two Bowman, this, this set comes from the same exact year, obviously, as the iconic fifty-two Topps card.
However, this card trades at about a tenth of the value of what a signed fifty-two Topps Mickey Mantle, would be trading for.
Keeping the sale price private for both the buyer and the seller, but I will say it was a six-figure deal.
Really, really excited again for all the parties involved with it.
I absolutely love this part of my job.
The brokering side of the business is super unique and interesting.
I love dealing with really the highest level investable quality cards and, as I talk about them, alternative assets that the hobby has to offer.
One of the things that I wanted to kinda touch on briefly was just a thank you to everybody who listened or watched my presentation on alternative assets as, as it relates to sports cards.
If you haven't watched the video yet, it's up on the Sports Card Nonsense YouTube channel.
It's the last podcast we just published here on the "Gordie Bonker Show," but I gave a presentation on the main stage at the National in Chicago, just really breaking down all the trends that are pushing the sports card market higher and why sports cards are really being viewed as an alternative asset class and a, a re- a great way to diversify a portfolio.
So I've had some awesome conversations in the past week from people reaching out who listened to the, presentation.
A lot of, people really feeling like I'm speaking to them.
A lot of people have been in this for a long time and viewed sports cards in that way, but there really hasn't been a, a vocal voice trying to steward and, and grow, the awareness of this.
And so I think there's a lot of excitement around it.
I think one of the things that I've also found interesting through the experience is as I put my name out there more and I continue to plant my flag in vintage sports cards being an alternative asset class, I think just personally, it's been an odd experience to get more exposure to the negativity that also still exists within sports cards, especially like I think people get upset for some reason that the valuations of sports cards are rising, or there are people that are finding success in sports cards maybe in a different way than they have previously found.
So, you know, I almost wanted to write an article about this or blog about this on my newsletter.
Just as you get more differing opinions as this continues to emerge and get more in the headlines, I think it matters more and more who you are listening to and trying to block out the noise and trying to understand, like, where this person is coming from that makes them want to say these certain things.
So all I can ask you guys to do is as you're starting to consume more content, because more and more people are going to talk about sports cards as an asset class, more and more people are going to talk about sports cards as just purely an investment play.
Be considerate of who you're listening to information from, the point of view that they have as to why they're saying it.
I've always used my platform as an educational tool and as a way to kind of expand just my own personal beliefs.
I have nothing to sell you other than I have my own vintage sports card brand where I'm selling vintage sports cards every Sunday night on Bonkers Cards Live.
I obviously want to help people that are interested in sports cards as an investment vehicle, as an asset class.
I'm always willing to share any information that I have or learn or know.
But I think there's going to be a lot of mixed signals.
I do think where the market is right now, you're going to eventually have to see some sort of pullback.
In the last six to eight months alone, you've seen a massive, increase in the valuation of a lot of the key player markets.
You know, I, I do remember sitting here a year or two ago saying the same thing, and we've really been in a straight bull market for the last probably close to twelve to eighteen months now.
And, I can't predict the future market valuation of this stuff in, in, the near term.
I believe in the long term, the demand is going to continuously outlast the supply, especially as it relates to higher-end cards, and I think that's going to keep driving the trends higher.
But at the end of the day, you guys are the ones making the decision.
Download as much information as you can, use the trusted sources that you guys appreciate, that you like, and make your own decisions at the end of the day.
I, I'm happy to continue to be here as a source of information for you guys.
And one of those trends that I think continued to play out over this weekend, and it kind of shows a lot of the signals of what I was talking about, especially when it comes to the high-grade stuff, was the auction results at REA.
Some of the banner results that I wanted to kind of make sure that I highlighted from REA, and I'll, I'll just be kind of reading and looking through some of these results live with you.
The number one lot in REA's auction sold for over a million dollars.
It was a nineteen fifty-two Topps unopened five-cent wax pack collection.
So this was basically sealed fifty-two Topps cards.
You can imagine the excitement that somebody could have that a fifty-two Topps Mantle could be sitting in these packs in mint condition, sealed.
It's pretty phenomenal that something like this even exists.
They don't ever come to market.
That's why you saw a seven-figure sale there.
Awesome result, and congrats to REA for this auction.
There was a couple of great results.
But what's interesting is I believe the number two lot in terms of sales price wasn't even on the first page, and this is where I'm getting to with the high-grade cards draw, drawing big attention from investment dollars.
You'll see all the top lots in REA.
The second one was a Ty Cobb PSA seven, did one fifty-three.
There was a Cracker Jack, nineteen fourteen Ty Cobb that did one eighty-four.
There was a Babe Ruth rookie-- or nineteen twenty-one, excuse me, that did, one hundred forty-seven K. But as you're scrolling and you're looking for the number two result, you're like, "Where is it, Gordie?
What are you talking about?"
I actually need to search it because it's not even on the first couple pages.
This is a great signal, though.
This was not expected to be a card that was going to garner this much interest.
It's the nineteen sixty-two Topps Willie Mays in a PSA nine.
The card sold for three hundred and sixty-nine thousand dollars.
Guys, what do you think the last nineteen sixty-two Willie Mays in a PSA nine sold for?
I'll let you think about it.
Take a guess for a minute, as I'm pulling up the results because I know this was a record-breaking sale that people weren't expecting.
Again, this is a high-grade card in PSA nine.
It's very low pop.
The last PSA nine sold in twenty twenty-four for a one hundred and ten thousand dollars.
This card more than tripled in the last two years, and that's because it's a super high grade.
Again, when you get in the PSA nines, PSA tens, the population is so low that people want to buy the grade.
And I know that's going to upset a lot of the IPEL people in the conversations I had.
I made sure I've had both Mike Baker on the podcast and of course, Matt Rolnick, last week's guest from IPEL Inc.
I think what they do is very important.
And again, in the lower grades from PSA one to seven, I absolutely think that matters a lot.
But when you get into the high grades, the scarcity of the ultra-high-grade stuff in the market is going to continue to appreciate because the supply is so low and demand is so great to get the best of the best stuff.
If you want to know about population on the sixty-two Mays in a PSA nine, there are thirteen PSA nine copies.
There's one PSA ten.
That is a three X from the last sale.
Again, that was the second highest result, and that was lot number one thousand seven hundred and six in the REA auction.
Again, people are watching this stuff, guys, and I, I do think the high-grade market is going to continue to go higher.
There are plenty of Hall of Fame cards.
And again, that is a base card of Willie Mays than in the middle of his career.
His rookie card is nineteen fifty-one.
That's a sixty-two Willie Mays.
So keep that in mind if you're interested in where some of the largest investment returns are going to come.
I think you're starting to see the market really wake up to that.
This is the design of that set here.
I have a sixty-two Hank Aaron, a PSA eight.
I have this card available right now.
Five thousand five hundred is the last sale.
That is what I'm asking for my copy.
Sixty-two Topps.
It's an interesting set from a visual design.
I think some people really like the wood border.
Here's a sixty-two Mantle I have with it as well.
Some people don't Either way, these are truly right in the middle of careers of the all-time hall of fame legends, and I think it's a very, interesting observation from this market.
If I want to go back and just kind of touch on a couple of the other results that REA had, you know, that green portrait Ty Cobb was an excellent, sale.
I love Ty Cobb stuff still.
I think it's some of the most focused on, pre-war player card markets that you can have.
Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson.
This whole result-- this whole auction, had a number of different cards across different eras.
Really, really good results.
Very, again, excited for the guys at REA for it.
I want to be able to actually turn now to the next big auction that's closing.
If you're listening to this on either Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday before the auction gets going in the weekend, Heritage has a massive vintage auction, and there's going to be some record results out of this auction as well.
This is very typical to see all-time highs and record sales in this specific auction for the major auction houses.
This is the auction that was marketed throughout the entirety of the National.
This was the catalog auction that any of the big bidders or consigners I was just going through, the Heritage, catalog myself here this morning.
But there's some big cards in this.
Most notably, there's a T206 Wagner.
It's in an SGC holder.
It's an authentic grade.
The estimate that they have is at four million right now before the buyer's premium.
It's at three point one with three days to go, so it looks like that's going to exceed.
You've got a PSA nine thirty-three Goudey Babe Ruth.
I think this is gonna do a really big num-number.
The estimate was two million.
Current bid's at one point one seven five with three days to go, and that's again before the buyer's premium.
One of the big cards that I'm looking to watch is the nineteen fifty-two Topps PSA eight Mickey Mantle.
This is gonna break an all-time high record for a public sale of a fifty-two Topps Mantle.
I have a couple clients that have bought PSA eight Mickey Mantle, so I'm gonna be watching this very closely for them as well.
Guide estimate that Heritage has on this copy, it does have a silver NBA sticker, is more than two million dollars.
The current bid's one point three two with three days left.
That's before the buyer premium, so it's sitting around one point six right now before heading into the weekend.
It could do a three million dollar number, honestly.
Very hard to be able to tell where that card's gonna go.
One of the best current examples that you could possibly get for that card.
So it will be a fun one to watch.
There's some signed Jackie Robinson in this auction, so I'll be interested to watch that as well.
Fifty-five Jackie, a, signed forty-nine Bowman Jackie as well.
Again, I've talked a lot about the importance of the signed vintage market.
That'll be a good gauge for it.
But yeah, I look to this, auction as a huge barometer of where the sports card market currently sits.
Heritage is one of the biggest players in the vintage card market.
They've got a lot of really key cards that are gonna be able to show, just gauge the overall market interest.
There's a couple of eighty-four Star cards, eighty-four Star Michael Jordan.
I talked a lot about that earlier this year when I had my signed copy that I sold.
Gonna go probably continue to push for record numbers again as well.
So yeah, I, I'm gonna be breaking down the results in this auction next week on the show as well.
I, I think that fifty-two Mantle, the Wagner will both generate a lot of media attention and headlines, and there's gonna be more interest in the hobby overall.
As you continue to hit record-breaking sales, more people start paying attention to this stuff, again, as an asset class they want to get in.
Demand rises, supply goes down.
It's just going to continue to go up.
And I'm saying supply goes down because a lot of the best of the best cards, I know who the end buyers are of this stuff, and there's no intention to resell in the near term.
This is long-term hold, store value type plays.
One of the really key points that I made in my presentation about sports cards as an alternative asset class is because of, one of the trends that I'm seeing is the money supply is so great and people are looking for alternatives as just stores of value because the cash supply continues to increase.
Inflation has continuously been a problem in the overall economy lately.
The stock market's hitting record all-time highs, and some people are getting a little bit, I don't want to say I think maybe a little bit hesitant to continue to just keep allocating to traditional stocks, bonds.
I think sports cards offers like a totally different diversified, physical hard asset, and that becomes really trendy when you have economic periods like this that have high levels of cash supply, high levels of inflation.
I think, you know, there's a lot of big money that's looking to put their cash to work in different and unique ways, and so they're gonna target the best of the best stuff and, you're gonna see prices continue to rise, in my opinion.
So, that is some of the highlighted stuff that I wanted to cover for the vintage card market.
Lastly, last thing I kinda wanted to highlight, just wanna say thank you.
I've had so much, continued support and excitement around my Sunday night eBay Live shows.
This past week, another really strong night in sales.
I'm starting to sell higher dollar cards, which is very exciting.
Last week, I sold a fifty-six Willie Mays PSA eight.
I think that went for six grand.
I sold a fifty-two Topps Willie Mays, this past Sunday night, which was really cool.
I can't remember the exact number.
I know it was a PSA one.
I think it did a little over three thousand.
But I'm just able to bring a lot more quality inventory the more people that tune in and follow me.
Again, follow me on eBay at bonkers-cards.
Save me as a seller there.
You'll get notified when I go live.
The more people that subscribe, follow me on eBay, the bigger audience I can get for those shows, the higher quality cards that I can put up for auction, 'cause I'll have the, the comfort that this card will sell for market value.
That's really the key thing for me in these shows is I wanna be able to get my equity back in the cards that I'm buying.
I'm buying collections all the time, so if you guys have cards that you wanna sell, you can email me at bonkerscards@gmail.com.
I'm constantly looking for inventory, me and Anthony.
Anthony's gonna be hosting a Wednesday night show on the channel.
Again, bonkers-cards.
You can follow me everywhere, @bonkerscards on social media.
I'm putting up a lot of content around those shows.
And then Anthony, @ajlcards.
And yeah, just really excited about the growth of the eBay Live shows, and I think eBay Live as a platform is gonna continue to do Great numbers.
I talked a little bit about live selling in my presentation.
It's gonna be such a huge trend over the next few years, so if you're not yet on eBay Live, jump on eBay Live, get in on the show, and again, tune in this Sunday because I did just buy another big collection.
I haven't even processed and priced all three yet, but there's a ton of Jackie Robinson, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, a little bit of Hank Aaron in there.
So again, tune in Sunday night, 8:00 PM Eastern, Bonkers Cards Live.
You'll get access to buy all those cards, a lot of them starting at just $1, so very excited for that.
And yeah, guys, I wanna turn it over now, to Greg Morris Cards.
You know, as I'm buying these collections, I kinda process I sell mostly graded cards.
I don't do a lot of raw cards live on my show.
And there's no better place to sell your raw cards than Greg Morris Cards, in my opinion.
I've been using them for a while.
They process a lot of inventory that otherwise would take me a lot of time to do, they give me a great rate, I know they'll give you a great rate as well.
Again, Drew Hester is the interview today.
He is the guy running the show at Greg Morris.
He's just a phenomenal person and a human.
I, have a lot of trust with him, do a lot of business with him, and he offers a ton of great insights into this interview, so wanna send you guys over to the interview now.
Guys, if you enjoyed today's episode, please make sure that you are liked, subscribed and following me, Gordie Bonker, on all social media channels, @bonkerscards, and please like and subscribe this podcast wherever you get your podcasts, on Spotify, Apple and whereel- wherever else you listen to your podcasts, and subscribe to the Sports Card Nonsense YouTube channel.
This has been another episode of The Gordie Bonker Show.
I hope you guys enjoyed, and I will see you guys next week.
What is going on, guys?
And welcome into another episode, a special interview here at the National, of the Gordie Bonker Show.
This week I'm joined by special guest Drew Hester of Greg Morris Cards.
What's up, Drew?
How we doing?
What's up, Gordie?
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.
Absolutely, man.
I like to call Drew the hardest working man in the hobby.
We were just talking about the, kinda the show schedule, all the different card shows you go to.
I mean, there's nothing quite like this, though.
This is a whole different level compared to the rest of the- And- The national circuit, if you will.
100%.
Yeah.
I mean, especially this year is, I feel like it's doubled in capacity, not only dealer-wise, but attendees.
It's, the hobby's, you know, as big as it's ever been.
Yeah.
Can't wait to see what happens in the next couple years.
I, I feel the same way.
It's almost try to hardener It's hard to conceptualize, like, what it will look like in a few years because, like you said, we've expanded capacity a lot in the convention center this year.
I know there's a little bit more space I think they could go get if they wanted to here, but they're gonna run out of room here.
Of course.
And it's like, where do you go to next?
Of course.
How do you get bigger than this?
And it's, it's only getting bigger.
It's only getting bigger.
Yeah.
And just to think about it, all the attendees that are here, there's still probably, I don't know, 10X people at home buying the cards off the internet that we are supplying or you're supplying- Yeah and the hobby's just as big as it's ever been.
Yeah.
I, so Greg Morris Cards is a great partner of mine.
I've, I've had you Have you been on the show before?
Is this the first time you're on?
Yeah, I've been, a Clubhouse show, not the podcast yet.
Okay.
Been on the Clubhouse.
We also did another interview, I think it was something else- We have- something, a newsletter you had as well.
So for anybody that's, that doesn't know Drew, he really runs the show at Greg Morris Cards, who is my trusted consignor.
I love doing business with you, and I actually got a chance to sit down with Greg Morris yesterday here at the National for a little bit and I just got the chance to tell him, like, how appreciative I am, how grateful I am that these guys exist.
They The reason that I'm so proud to have you as a partner and like the business so much is it really serves the end collector, and it's super It's a great service for people that have cards that they might not themselves wanna collect, but they can directly find the person who it, they're going to have enjoy it.
And I just dropped off a, a 54 top set to you this morning.
Yeah.
It's my favorite set, but there's a lot of specific cards in there that rather than me have the time to try to find and sell, you guys do a great job at selling it.
Yeah, we, we have an unbelievable niche.
Yeah.
But, but, but that, yeah, I think we're kind of the only company left that tailors to the true collector.
I, yeah.
And especially in the vintage community, there's not a lot of that.
Everybody's looking for that big glory card- Yeah you know, the card that they've been looking for their whole entire life.
Yeah.
But there's still a large amount of people, some young, mostly, you know, older generations- Yeah that are still building sets.
Yeah.
They're on their fourth and fifth of certain years, trying to make them better and better and better, so like that, those people still exist and I feel like we are the only company left that tailors to it.
I completely agree.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And talk to me a little bit about the, the set collector.
I think that's an interesting conversation.
Do you think it's a dying breed or do you think we still have- Okay another generation of set collectors coming?
I'll tell you what, it's not a dying breed because I, we're always trying to grow outside of vintage, and one of those things has been Pokemon, right?
Okay.
So I've been trying to take knowledge in Pokemon, learning from dealers and other things.
There's set collectors in Pokemon, so it just shows you, like, there's different versions of what we got going on.
But vintage-wise, I don't think it's gonna die.
I think that's one of those stories that's told at card shows every week- Agree.
Yeah but nothing changes.
Yeah.
It's like, "Hey, it's gonna last one more month," and then it's like, I see another 50 people collecting, right?
Ooh, we're still here.
I think it's gonna last, you know, till the end of time.
You just can't It- it's kind of the staple of sports cards.
I agree.
I've, I've said this before, collecting is as old as the hills.
Like, it is innate characteristic that so many of us here share, like you have that collector gene, and I think people will always appreciate the history of, of sport, and I think sports cards is the way that people can connect to that history- For sure a really unique way and I'm just like, I couldn't be more, like, passionate about what you guys do to help those people out that appreciate that, so thank you for everything that you do.
Oh, yeah.
Of course.
I mentioned, like I said, I think you're the hardest working guy in the hobby.
It's an honor.
Appreciate it.
I, I see you everywhere.
Outside of the National, what are some of your favorite shows that you like to go to?
Well, there's two I mean, Greg Morris has a couple different circuits that we're doing.
We're trying to get into more shows.
Me personally, like I just told you- Yeah I don't wanna be at every show.
Right.
It's hard, man.
It's just, it's a hard, it's a lot of work and it's very taxing on the brain.
Yeah.
But I mean, the, my two favorites, the Philadelphia Card Show is unbelievable.
It's essentially a mini National.
Yeah.
That's kind of how I look at it.
I mean, the volume of people, patrons are there, but on, not only that, you get majority of these dealers that are in this room selling vintage are at that show.
That's number one.
Number two would probably be the Dallas Card Show.
It's the perfect hub, middle of America, that we can go to.
Yeah, I agree.
People from all over, they do a spectacular job, and they're every two months.
Yeah.
It kind of bl- that just shows you how strong the hobby is.
Yeah.
They're every two months, and you can't walk through the aisles on Saturdays there.
Yeah.
Like, it's It, it's Those two are the, my most successful shows that we have, and they're kind of our two staples where- Mm-hmm we really got grounded at, for consignments and, and- Right people that live locally.
I, I feel I, I, I agree with you completely.
I love the Philly show.
It's got a lot of vintage roots in it.
I think, of any big regional show in the country, I think it's the best vintage show.
I haven't been to Dallas though in, like, over a year, year and a half.
I remember the last time I was there, I was starting to see a big shift in more modern and a lot of Pokemon cards.
Definitely is.
Definitely is.
But I think Dallas is kind of one of those hubs where there's collectors that live outside of the show.
Okay.
So it's more of an attendee thing- Gotcha than anything.
It's not necessarily you're running into the biggest dealers.
Right.
Because it's ki- it's not a struggle that we have, but we're in Los Angeles.
Yeah.
And the way I have learned over the years, especially because Topps, being open in Brooklyn, I believe, back in the '50s and all that stuff, the main majority of the vintage cards- Northeast sit on the East Coast.
Yeah, for sure.
So, out West, we do have plenty.
Don't get me wrong, but- Yeah but the, the day-to-day person who's walking in and saying, "Oh, it's time for me to get rid of this collection," or- Yeah "My kid doesn't wanna take care of it," or, "I need to My, my You know, I need to pay off my house"- Right has changed.
So, I see that a lot more on the East Coast than I would ever on the West Coast.
Yeah.
And Dallas is kind of one of those meet in the middle places.
You get people that travel from, you know, Kansas, Ohio, Oklahoma.
Yeah.
It's pretty good.
I just did a, a deal for the first time ever One of the things I love about the National is you get to meet people that you otherwise never would, like, across the country.
For sure.
Like, I did a big deal first morning here with a guy who owned a card shop in Oklahoma, and I was like, first of all, I've never been to Oklahoma.
I don't know if I know anyone from Oklahoma.
And that is one of the really cool quirks about the show and the scale of it.
Wanted to ask you about the consignment, kinda the stories that go along with it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, we were joking about some of the quirky consignments that have been coming up to you at the table.
I'd love to hear, maybe even this week, your best and your worst consignment that has came to you.
Any stories come to mind?
So, I mean Best consignment- Where do you wanna go there?
I'll start with the best consignment.
Yeah.
The best consignment that we've had so far And we, we're very lucky, because we've started You know, we, our grassroots are very strong, and people know who we are just through, essentially, trial and error.
Yeah.
So, we, our best consignment we got, we got about 52 sets from one individual on Wednesday.
He's actually been making multiple trips back, three-hour drives, to just bring them all to fit them in the car.
I can imagine.
Baseball, football, but you could tell he was just a very passionate collector, building top sets, mid sets, low sets- Right for one year.
Those are spectacular.
We get those every now and then.
We're able to make him more money than anybody could possibly, you know, give him for- Right one of those collections.
Right.
Selling it card by card, essentially.
As for the, the weird consignments, I've had some wild ones.
The National hasn't been that crazy.
Okay.
The very common, oddball consignments is somebody trying to push their million-dollar collection that starts in '88 and then goes to '94.
Oh, yeah.
We all know, it doesn't have that much value.
But we did get Willie Mays's underwear from somebody once, signed.
I had- Oh, my God.
I had to decline that.
So, we do get some wonky stuff out there, but- Where does somebody even get Willie Mays's underwear?
I don't know.
I mean, we're a, and we're a proud partner with eBay, so that'd be a really weird one to explain if I ever listed it up there on eBay.
Oh, my God.
But yes.
Everything.
That is hilarious.
I, There was something else I wanted to ask you on, on the consignment piece to it, but no, I think that's, that's hilarious, too.
You, you never know what's gonna walk into it.
With the, the set guy that you were referring to as well, that You said that all sports, and the condition was super high.
That's where I wanted to go.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Condition really drives some crazy prices- It does at Greg Morris.
It does.
I mean, it's shocking.
And I, I kinda You know, the person who is very anal-retentive in, in how they pick their cards- Yeah are the people that are most successful.
Yeah.
And they, and they did that at a young age, and they're able to build these sets and, and do these things.
So, I mean, it, the condition does drive a very, very high price, but there's a market for people that love low-grade crease.
They love, they love the ones and the twos.
Right.
And they can't afford those high-end cards, and they are still set building.
So, it's You get a, you get a big, you know, variable, very- I knew where I was gonna, was gonna go next.
One of the Like you said, you sell every card individually, and even in these massive quantities.
Like, this guy's bringing you 50 complete sets, and I've, I've noticed it myself.
I had a big consignment earlier this year.
I probably gave you 5, 6,000 cards, and every one of them was sold.
And I thought the time that it takes, the processing, the human capital.
Talk How many people do you have processing these collections?
We have- What's behind the scenes like?
We have roughly It, it varies.
We're roughly around 36 employees right now.
Um- Interesting we, we- And you're hiring currently, or do you- Correct.
We always are, because we- Yeah it's just, it's gotten bigger and bigger, and- Right one of the biggest problems that we run into is the logistics of shipping.
Yeah.
I mean, we, we list 4,500 raw cards a day.
That's We list another 1,000-plus graded cards a day, and now we're doing modern as well, where we're doing another 500 to 1,000.
Okay.
So, if you really think about it, the logistics of shipping become a nightmare.
Yeah.
You know, we're ho- So, you have just full-time employees that are- Exactly just shipping all day?
We But we're open Monday through Friday in our office.
We don't work Saturday, Sunday, but- Yeah there's auctions every day.
Right.
So, it, it, that does become kind of the hardest part, because you wanna deliver the product to people in a very nice way.
You wanna make sure that- Yeah nothing gets damaged.
You know, we're talking about sports cards here.
Right.
It's very easy to ruin a part of fish string if you don't do it correctly.
Right.
So that, that does become, like, a little bit of a hurdle, and it's constantly fluctuating because of how fast we're growing.
I think one of the trends that I'm noticing right now, every time I'm talking to a business owner, auction house, any of even the media companies, like, what's the biggest challenge that they're having in the industry?
It's, it's literally everyone is saying the same thing.
It's, it's hiring.
It's finding people.
It's tough.
We're growing at such a massive pace, and- But that, but that brings me to kind of something that me and you have talked about- Yeah is what lacks in this industry is the education.
Yeah.
And it's the edu- So, you can't just go hire Joe off the street- No and say, "Hey, I'm gonna put you in this role in cards, and I need you to do this.
I need you to figure it out," because the education factor here is- wild.
Yeah.
And it's not something you can just pick up in a book, it's not something you just learn tomorrow, and it- it's become very difficult for a lot of companies to find those employees.
Like, it We're first.
Yeah.
Because we grade cards in-house.
You can't hire a grader off the street.
No.
Right?
And it- it could take six months to realize if they're gonna actually be good at grading, and they're actually gonna understand how to grade and they're gonna be able to spot alterations.
So it's not It That is one of the hurdles, no matter what.
I mean- Shipping, I could hire someone for shipping.
Yeah.
Okay?
But- For sure you know, it gets harder doing it that way.
I, you know, that's an interesting point on grading, too, with the PSA backlog that is so insane.
The- the reason being is that they can't find the graders to do it.
So, I mean, for anybody who's listening to this show or just thinking about what you wanna do in your own career, if there's interest in getting into the hobby, that's a great way to enter, if you already have the collector background and interest.
Because the g- the essential skill, like you said, is the education around it, and grading is a massive bottleneck across the industry.
What do you make of, like, where do you see the grading future going with PSA and all these guys being so backed up?
I mean, I don't know.
It's Because the real thing is, we- we deal in sports, and I believe the statistic is, like, every 10 cards that get sent to PSA, only three are sports related.
Ooh.
So- Fun, fun fact there so there's, like, there's a big difference in what we do.
Do- do I think grading takes over our part of the industry?
It does for the newer cards, no matter what.
Yeah.
The collectors like us, they don't rely on it.
They rather have the raw card- Right because that's a nostalgic feeling of what they did when they were kids.
Right.
But yeah, Pokemon, it's taking over.
It's taking o- and it's a whole completely different business model from what we do with sports.
Mm-hmm.
It's a whole dif- they tr- they- they run different sales than what we try to do.
The scarcity's not there.
It's just there's more of it, but there's more people.
That's across the world.
Yeah, it's global.
You know what I mean?
So it- I, uh- It's very interesting.
I don't know the outlook, though.
I'm not, I'm not sure.
With PSA halting what they got going, it's kind of helped us a little bit, 'cause I feel like it's bringing back the raw collector.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
That's how I felt, and I feel more people are coming us- coming to us to sell as a raw collector.
But yeah, I don't know.
I'll stop there for a second.
I think that's a really interesting thing that's given you even more of an edge, is oftentimes the really quality stuff, I would say anything that would grade between two and eight Actually, no.
I would say any- anything, if it's a hall of fame player, good quality card, compare the raw sale versus what it would do in a PSA graded slab, you're getting that price.
Yeah, true.
I mean, we- Without the grading backlog I think we kind of are the only company that could level up to a PSA sales.
Yeah.
We outpace them on quite a bit of cards.
When you really get to that range of, like, one to six, sometimes one to seven, we're outpacing by 10%, sometimes higher.
You know, it just depends.
Yeah.
It depends on what collector's looking for that item that's a missing piece- Yeah of their, you know, their collection.
But it- it's helped us a lot.
It's definitely propelled us, and also, we've been a staple.
We're not There's no funny business when it comes to us grading.
Yeah.
Greg Morris himself still grades.
He's followed the standard for 15 years.
Does he really?
Yeah.
I got to tell you what, he doesn't have a passion into it.
But like, when we need help and need to catch up, I mean, he's- Please don't bond it's crazy.
His- his eye for the card has been incredible.
He could do 2,000 cards in two hours, you know?
I- Really?
Exactly.
That's- It's crazy yeah, I mean, that's something that takes, you know, a career in being able to look at the stuff, recognize it.
That- that's really interesting.
What are you Is there anything I know you, you're 24/7 at the show this week.
Yeah.
Like, manning consignments and stuff like that.
Is there anything that ever catches your eye for you personally to collect when you're at these shows?
Uh- Anything that you've picked up yourself?
Sometimes.
I mean, I have two younger kids.
They love Pokemon.
Yeah.
I still don't know anything about it.
But I do buy some things for them that I know, hey, when they're 18 years old or 20 years old, it's gonna be worth a ton of money.
Yeah.
Am I spending thousands of dollars?
No.
Yeah.
Mantle is just a go-to.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I'm more of a, I know the grading scale, what people want, so high eye appeal Mantles, but low grade.
Yeah.
Phenomenal things to buy.
Me personally, the first thing I ever learned how to grade, in our office, was 1975 Topps.
I remember you telling me that.
And so I became- Yeah like, really obsessed with that- Yeah for some reason, just because of the colors of all the cards, and they're really hard to find in high grade because of the shipping.
Yeah, they are.
So I collect PSA nines only, of that.
I'm still trying to build my first set with that.
Probably my only set.
Yeah.
But that's kinda my goal.
It's very difficult to find, but- Right I'm also, you know, we work so much, I can't go out and- No, I hear you go searching for these cards, but- I was excited this week- there's a passion there you know I'm a big golfer.
I, I had a little bit of time to walk the floor, try to find something for myself.
And I remember last year, there was a guy that had only golf stuff.
That's awesome.
And it's super You can't see that here or anywhere else.
And I just, I was like, "What's the single best item you have?"
You know?
'Cause I didn't have a lot of time.
And he had, he brought out a pennant, that was sold at Oakmont in 1962.
It was Jack Nicklaus' first ever professional win, and it was his first major.
He won the US Open at Oakmont.
That's amazing.
And the pennant is in awesome shape, so getting to pick up something like that is really cool.
I love the, kind of the u- uniqueness of the show.
Yeah.
You never know what you're gonna find.
You and me gotta get out on the golf course soon, too.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
You know, Cody, and you mentioned that Greg's a big golfer.
I, last question that I wanna make sure that I get to, and if you have any other questions or thoughts- Yeah, of course that you wanted to bring up, feel free to shoot them my way, too.
In the trends of the industry that you've noticed in vintage, is there any player that you're starting to recognize is getting more price appreciation- Yeah than maybe he was when you first started, or people are just gravitating towards more?
I mean, there definitely is.
Like, the, the influx of, of people tapping into the hobby with large amounts of money in the past six months.
You've seen those six major cards go so high.
The '52 Jackie is just, like, what?
Yeah.
I'm pretty sure it's at 180% in three months, which is absurd.
'52 Mantle, the grill that everybody wants.
I mean, these are things that have always been big- Yeah and always been huge cards, but now they're just, they're out of this world.
Yeah.
It's And it's changed a ton.
I mean, it went from, you know, one week, a card being worth $80,000, it's been at that price for three years, to all of a sudden, Monday- It's at 250.
Yeah.
And I, it just I- I'm a little lost on how fast that has just climbed.
It- it's mind-blowing.
Yeah.
It- it's becoming, you know, the, some of the newer entrants into the space are recognizing that this is an alternative asset class, and they wanna get exposure to it, and they're holding a lot of this stuff for the long period.
But the big thing is too, is I'm seeing younger generations.
Yeah.
Because those younger generations that were buying the modern, that are so volatile- Uh-huh depending on how they play that week, they're switching to a vintage collection.
No, they're switching, switching to vintage 'cause they know it's longer-standing money over time.
Yeah.
It really is.
'Cause there's no new cards coming out.
Right.
Mickey's not getting, getting in trouble in the law anytime soon.
Right.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, these- Absolutely they're, they're just, they're s- more stable.
Yeah.
I h- I agree with you.
I think that's one of the reasons that attracted me to it.
In a little bit here, I'm gonna be doing a presentation, talking about the rise of sports cards as an- Nice alternative asset and there are so many things that go into it outside of just, I don't know.
There's the cultural impact, like so much of what Michael Rubin and Fanatics has done in terms of making this, like, recognized- Yeah and, like, culturally very cool is bringing in new people.
But I also think this, this rush for physical assets is very exciting to people.
Like, getting something that's tangible- that they can own, that's different.
So this, there's a lot of different influences that are going into it and- Yeah, there's a, there's a trend changing in the world.
I mean, uh- Yeah people our generation and younger, they don't necessarily buy stocks anymore.
Yeah.
But they're more asset-driven individuals.
Yeah.
And it's, it- that's what's really fueled the hobby.
And, like, physical Yeah, like, I don't know.
You could even kinda make the argument for just more alternatives in general.
I think a lot of people that are younger are more open-minded to trying new things with their money, like whether that was crypto or- Yep sports cards or sneakers or whatever.
I think that's a, like, a longer term trend that we'll be watching for a while.
Anything else on your mind that you're thinking about, just business related, hobby related, industry related?
Anything else?
Nothing much.
I mean, I, we just have some goals this year.
Our, our goals are really to focus on our graded card consignment.
Okay.
We're, like, the most competitive rates out there, when it comes to that.
And not only that, you get fantastic- Yeah exposure.
But our goal is to really kinda hammer that home.
Yeah.
I think that we, we're such a huge staple in the raw vintage community, there's no reason why we can't sell graded everything from TCG to modern to vintage.
Yeah.
I really wanna just expand our palette essentially, and that, that's kinda where we wanna focus at Greg Morris Cards.
Yeah.
And really just grow the hobby.
And a- another thing me and you have talked about that I'm really excited to kinda pitch and run through is I wanna teach people more about this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wa- I wanna kind of broaden the education 'cause not only will it help me and you, with our clients, but other people out there can understand what they're buying.
Yeah.
They can understand how to buy.
They can understand what's good, what's not, the do's and don'ts essentially- Yeah of the day, the- You, you and I both are proud partners of eBay.
You guys do a ton of business on eBay.
They've been a great partner for me and my brand as well with my live show.
I think there's something there in terms of partnering with them, the education that we could bring.
Yeah.
B- bringing more audience to this, side of the hobby, so I'm excited to work with you.
Like I said, man, I, I couldn't be more proud to get to work with Greg Morris.
I, I love the relationship that we've gotten to build over the last few years.
It's crazy.
Like, I've known you for a while now and- Yeah the growth that, you know, we've gotten to share- Pretty crazy because of obviously the industry grow- growing, but coming to these shows and seeing you all the time, like, it really is like- We are you're one of my favorite people to see.
Oh, man, thanks.
Appreciate that.
I, I really thank you for everything, that you guys are doing.
If you guys wanna learn more, where can they find you specifically, Greg Morris, everything like that?
Yeah, I mean, gregmorriscards.com is the best way to reach out to us.
I answer majority of the emails, so you can always- Yeah, I know write in and type of stuff.
Hardest working man in the hobby.
Exactly.
Our social media is Greg Morris Cards.
We're just looking to, to grow both of those, those avenues- Yeah especially our social media.
We do do a lot of social media work with you.
We're kinda trying to find the, I mean, follow the, the best in the hobby right now.
Yeah.
And so I think you are.
Thanks, man.
But yeah, I mean, visit us at Greg Morris Cards.
Let us know what cards you have or just share your collection.
We love the stories.
We love listening to everything you guys have and yeah, thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
Again, guys, this is Drew Hester, Greg Morris Cards.
You've been listening to the Gordie Bonker Show.
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