Carter's new deal raises DT vs. EDGE questions
Chris Simms and Mike Florio break down Jalen Carter's historic extension, questioning why elite interior defensive linemen make less than elite edge rushers.
Video Transcript
All right.
W- we, we, we move on to football.
And I have to give Gary, the producer, a little bit of credit, because yesterday Just a little bit.
Just a little bit, but some.
Yesterday when we were talking about Vita Vea, his failed contract negotiations with the Buccaneers, his exasperation that has led to him asking to be traded, Gary had put in the document that we share- Yeah that Jalen Carter is also in a position where he should be getting a new contract.
And I made the executive decision in the moment, given the amount of time that we had spent talking about the Odyssey yesterday, that I needed to move, I needed to move to the next topic.
But lo and behold, middle of the afternoon, boom.
Jalen Carter gets the contract that I'm surprised he didn't get earlier, because the Eagles are the kings of moving quickly before the cap goes up and the market moves.
The Jeffrey Simmons deal made the Jalen Carter deal more expensive.
If they had done the contract that was done yesterday back in March when they did the Jordan Davis deal, it would have been less.
The It absolutely, positively would have been less than yesterday.
But the, the initial numbers, and we'll get the full details and break them down, it's a four year, $152 million extension.
That's 38 million per year.
It's got escalators and other payments that could push it to a 40 million per year deal, 160 million total.
He's under contract for six years.
He becomes the highest paid defensive tackle in NFL history, besting the Jeffrey Simmons high water mark of 35.3.
Sure.
The new king of the interior defensive lineman- Yeah is Jalen Carter at 38 million.
Yeah.
Well, he's the youngest of the group there, so that makes the most sense.
He's not even in the prime of his career.
I'm not gonna say he's better than Jeffrey Simmons here right now, but on this list, it's their one-two, that's for sure.
And when Jalen Carter's at his best, he's one of the best defensive players in football.
I mean, you know, bar none.
There He, he's right up there with every famous name you wanna talk about, so he's phenomenal that way.
I wasn't shocked when I heard this yesterday, right?
I, you know, I knew a little bit of behind the scenes about the, the situation.
And last week there was a little bit of talk, right, like, "Oh, I don't know if they're gonna come to a deal.
Maybe they, you know, will look to trade Jalen Carter."
I never bought that.
I talked about it on my podcast last week a little bit, going, "Nah, I think that maybe Jalen Carter and his camp are asking for a lot of money, and they're trying to, like, l- just temper expectations a little bit."
And I think ultimately that's what happened here, but not shocked to see him get this type of payday, right?
I mean, again, I, you, I, I, you know I, he, I put him in the class of Michael Parsons, Myles Garrett, Will Anderson, Jeffrey Simmons, you name it, Maxx Crosby, all those type of guys, right?
We wax poetically, Adam, and you laugh at me at times because you've heard me talk about, man, I watch the Eagles film.
And when Jalen Carter's healthy, he destroys offensive lines.
He's unblockable.
He is an F the play up guy.
He's all about disruption and all of that.
And then he can do everything from the interior part of the defensive line.
Win with quicks, win with strength.
He's bendable and pliable.
He'll be on a knee and throw a guy off him, and then get up and make a tackle.
So he deserves to be on this list, and, glad to see the Eagles get it done, 'cause Jalen Carter's a freak of nature.
Leave that up.
Le- bring that back.
Yeah.
Bring that back.
Yeah.
Bring back the graphic.
I got a question for you, Chris.
Yeah.
Because look, there's a difference between the pay scale for the edge rushers- Right the guys who come around the corner and go after the quarterback.
And the two most important positions in football, number one, the guy who throws the football, and number two, the guy who affects the guy who throws the football.
And we typically attribute that to the defensive end, to the pass rusher.
But- Yeah the F the play up guy in the middle, like, how did it happen that a guy who can affect the quarterback, but he does it from the interior, not the exterior, how does that guy end up in a different universe?
I- That's what's weird to me, because And here's the exercise.
Yeah.
I want you to look at each of those names, and set aside the fact that Michael Parsons is currently recovering from the ACL tear, and who knows where that stands.
At, at 100%, of the guys in front of Jalen Carter- Yeah the six edge rushers who are paid higher than him, are there any of those guys that you would say, as to them, "Give me Jalen Carter instead"?
Ooh.
Okay.
All right, so that's a good, that's a good question.
First off, Jalen Carter, let me just preface it with this.
I think Jalen Carter I mean, he's, he's a Hall of Fame type talent, right?
He's Warren Sapp-ish, but except 30 years later in evolution, where he's just a little bigger, a little stronger, right?
A little longer in the arms and all that.
So I really look at the player to go, "This is, like This is a guy that could be a first ballot Hall of Fame type of talent."
Now, I think the question here is, if you asked me that same question and said, "If you could take one of these guys for the next five years," right?
I would go, "Yeah, Jalen Carter's gonna be one of the first guys I'm gonna take, actually."
If it's, if it's that.
Now, if it's, like this next year, okay.
Yeah, there's some debate.
Myles Garrett right now in his prime, right?
You know, th- that's, I think, the one I look at.
But I, I'm telling you, Mike, I sit here and look at it, and you've mentioned this yesterday.
Defensive tackle, you know, we know defensive ends are involved in a lot of plays.
Defensive tackles are involved in almost every play.
They're, they're every aspect of the game, and it goes unnoticed, but they are game changers.
And I'm telling you, it would be really close for me going, "Ah, ooh."
I would take Jalen Carter over D- Daniel Hunt- Daniel Hunter, and I think the world of him.
I think I would take him over, of course, Michael Parsons with the knee issue right now.
I think I would take him- Oof.
At, at this moment right now, I'd probably take him over Aidan Hutchinson as well, and T.J. Watt.
I, I think I would.
At this moment, I would ta- I would take it.
All right?
So the I, I might be in the minar- minority.
It's a close one there, but I think it does speak to how awesome Jalen Carter is.
And when he's at his best, he's- he is truly one of the best defensive players in the league.
And look, he beat the prior record at his position by 2.7 million per year.
Yeah.
So that is significant.
One of these guys needs to get paid like an edge rusher.
That's what And I hadn't really thought about this until we started talking about this today.
But if the value is in disrupting the guy who's throwing the football, why does it matter if he's lined up inside or outside?
I, I, I hear you.
If he's effing the play up- I hear you if he's disrupting the quarterback, if he's making it harder for the offense to do what it is trying to do, how is that not value even if he happens to line up inside?
I think we're getting there.
And maybe it's as simple as- Yeah there's a greater injury risk.
Maybe it's just there's a greater injury risk.
I, I think- And that body's gonna wear down faster.
Yeah.
The, I think there, there could be that, right?
You know, the, sometimes the, the numbers do justify things as well, right?
As far as yeah, hey, disruption and at the play up we know is extremely important.
But, you know, getting 18 sacks seven yards behind the line of scrimmage is, is every bit as important, if not more.
I think the other thing too is you could probably game plan a little easier for the D tackles in some ways, where it, it's just, you know, you, you can, you can slide the line that way.
You can g- kind of get double teams easier, and maybe not totally disrupt your offensive game plan to the same capacity as it might take if you go, "Oh gosh, Myles Garrett's on fire right now.
We can't leave our tackle there.
We always gotta have a running back chip on him.
We always gotta have the tight end over there to have another extra body on him."
And, you know, so that can really disrupt maybe an offensive game plan more than the interior D tackle.
Now, it's not by much more, but it, it's a little bit more.
But Mike, I, I, I think, you know, you're onto something.
I've been saying this.
I said this on my Instagram video yesterday when then the news broke, to go, "Hey, you know, D tackle first off.
You look at recent history, you look at the NFL."
I think we're getting there to what you're saying.
The good teams, both teams in the Super Bowl last year, right?
Phenomenal defensive tackle play.
At the top of the market, Milton Williams, Christian Bairmore, right?
Hey, Byron Murphy, who will be when he's out over the rookie contract, Leonard Williams.
Bam.
We know the Broncos ha- ha- have that with, you know, Zach Allen, and, and of course D.J.
Jones.
But, you know, Zach Allen of course is one of the best in football.
So you go through that, the 49ers teams that went to the Super Bowls, the Chiefs with Chris Jones, Vita Vea with the Bucs, Aaron Donald with the Rams.
The Eagles of course two different times.
I think you're starting to see something there that, hey yeah, we like edge pass rushers, but you don't have to have the top of the line edge pass rushers sometimes if you got these guys in the middle who are holding down the fort in the run game, taking up two blockers.
And then, you know, as a quarterback, I, I, I will tell you, and to your point again, g- offen- a offensive guard being pushed into your face and into your vision and not being able to throw into the ball is maybe way more annoying than worrying about Julius Peppers or Micah Parsons coming around the edge all the time.
And it can affect you more and more that way.
So I think you're onto something, Mike.
I think the league realizes that, and I think that's why we're starting to see the gap close here slowly but surely.
I almost feel like with a quarterback, and you're in a far better position to address this than me, but when you go and do your, your, your, your drop, and you set up in the pocket, there's a rhythm I think to- Totally the collapsing around you, the stepping up- Exactly or the, if you have the ability to do it, peeling back and running away and buying time.
That's more predictable, and that's more of a pattern that you can learn how to work with.
100%.
I don't know that there's any way to work with, "I got the ball and I got this guy who's right in my fricking face and I can't do anything."
I, I, I- I feel like that would be far more disruptive.
It, it, it is ev- I, I It is, Mike.
I, I don't think you're wrong there.
You know, and, and really, really good offenses, they teach their guys, "Hey d- quarterback, don't drop past six and a half, seven yards.
When you hit that last step on your drop, we want you to push up in the pocket 'cause we're teaching that tackle to try to push the pass rusher by you, right?
He saw you at that seven-yard mark, and he's trying to get there.
And as he's trying to get there, you're gonna move up to the four and a half, five yard mark."
But if there's a defensive tackle there, it changes everything.
And I can speak to my experience of it.
You'll remember these two names.
Hal- Haloti Ngata, right, from the Baltimore Ravens.
Playing him, I felt like the whole game I was throwing the ball like this, 'cause he was right here and I was like, "Can I ever get through a throw?"
I mean, every time he was there I could never really throw the football.
Chris Jenkins of the Carolina Panthers, the same way.
And I mean, there's times too with some of these guys, as you've heard me joke before, you put your hand underneath the center, a- AKA swamp ass, and you're sitting there- Yes and you're going, "Wait, can this " And, and, and you're looking and you're going, "Wait, Warren Sapp is right there.
His head is three inches from the center."
And you're going, "Wait, can the center really snap me the ball and block him at the same time?"
I mean, it, it can really disrupt everything as far as your brain, your feel, what's going on, all of that.
So I mean, I You're not wrong with anything you're saying there.
And, you know, the Lions, they've had great defensive tackle play.
You look at the NFL right now, most of the really good teams have had phenomenal interior defensive linemen.
