Only Taylor Swift Could Have Done This + New Travis & Taylor Wedding Details!
This week on Travis+Taylor, JoJo in KC gives Patrick Allen the ultimate Taylor Swift crash course as they dive deep into one of the biggest moments in modern music history: Taylor's fight to reclaim ownership of her masters and why Taylor's Versions changed the music industry forever.
Video Transcript
Welcome to Taylor school.
I think you're gonna enlighten me a little bit.
Yeah, so I, I, I told you I took notes.
I've got pages of notes here.
this is probably The most As far as Taylor Swift goes, this is, this is it.
This is what you need to know about being a Swifty is the master's issue and what happened, so.
I'm gonna break it all down for you.
Hey, welcome in Travis and Taylor, your new favorite podcast.
Patrick Allen here with you, as always, joined by my amazing co-host Jojo and KC.
Hi Jojo, what's happening ?
Oh, you know, just enjoying the last few weeks of summer, I think here.
Yeah, it's nuts to me that we're already, I'm starting to think about.
I mean the Hall of Fame game is right around the corner.
It's almost, uh, it's gonna be August before you know it, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's wild.
Um, I can't believe this is our 4th episode.
Episode 4.
We made it.
How do you think things are going so far?
It's gonna be a good one today, like we're gonna dig in.
I can't wait.
It's been honestly a blast.
I am really excited for today's though, cause I think that this is going to really change your mindset and perspective on being a swifty, so I can't wait for you.
Yeah, I'm excited.
I'm excited.
We have a a chock full uh outline today for today's show, so we're gonna dive into it before we do just a little bit of business.
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So, not only is it cool for that, but you actually have a direct line to me and to Jojo, we're gonna send out occasional updates or thoughts or analysis, or maybe Easter egg theories, like any of those things, you're gonna get, don't worry, we're not gonna blow up your phone, we're not weirdos, uh, but you'll be able to get an occasional update from us, but we actually respond as much as we can, there's a lot of you guys, which is really awesome.
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Apple Podcast.
We're at like, we're in the 30s right now, so we need y'all's help.
We picked up a few more this week.
We're getting some momentum, but this will help the show spread and help us be able to do more cool stuff for you guys.
So please, please, please, please, please, please give us a review, and, um, and we're gonna read some of those a little bit later right here in this podcast from those of you that did leave us reviews.
One of them I think might have been my wife, but that counts.
It's OK. We love the support from her.
Absolutely, absolutely, and we've got, you sent out a text right before we started recording the show today.
So if you guys like want to talk about things on the show, Patrick and I will occasionally send updates like that, so you guys can weigh in and hopefully something you ask or comment about will land on the show.
So that'll be very fun to do.
Very cool.
We've got a day today, Patrick, are you ready?
We do, and when , you know, it's a big question I've had for you, right, is sort of, as I'm on my road to becoming a swifty.
There's just so much I don't know, and one of the big things is the whole like Taylor's version.
I don't know anything.
I mean, I know the very, very basics, right, which is that she needed to re-record.
So, um, welcome to Taylor's school.
I think you're gonna enlighten me a little bit.
Yeah, so I, I, I told you I took notes.
I've got pages of notes here.
Um, I want to talk about the master's dispute with Taylor Swift.
I want this to be something that Um, we can come back to you in reference if we need to.
Swifties, if you're trying to turn someone into a swifty, I want you to send them this episode.
We're gonna talk about everything that this is probably The most As far as Taylor Swift goes, this is, this is it.
This is what you need to know about being a Swifty is the master's issue and what happened, so.
I'm gonna break it all down for you, but let's start with just like some basic overview knowledge, right?
So master recordings, do you know what master recordings are?
Um, I, I mean, I assume those are what you go when you go into the studio and you lay down that that final track, like that is the original copy that you do with your producers, right?
Yeah, so there's a couple different ways you can think of it, but to me, I envision um a a master recording of a song is basically the blueprint.
If you were to, to put the song into a blueprint, that would be your master.
Um, it's going to include like your legal and your creative control, that's extremely important, OK.
There's also composition, like composition ownership.
That details lyrics only.
That's gonna be important later, but it's important to know the difference between those two, the lyric composition and the masters.
Now, when we talk about this story, there's two people you need to know, and I'm hoping our lovely producers will show their faces as I tell you all about them.
But the first person you probably know about is Scooter Braun.
Scooter Braun, business mogul, very, very rich, did management for some artists in the past, one of Taylor Swift's bullies on the internet.
The other man is Scott Borchetta.
A lot of people don't know about Scott Borchetta, but he is really the ultimate villain in this story.
OK, I've never heard of him.
You're about to learn a lot about him, and you're gonna, I, I promise you, you are, uh, you're gonna have feelings when we're done with this conversation.
When we're talking about Taylor's masters.
We're really only talking about albums 1 through 6.
Her debut album Through reputation.
Um, after album 6, she owns them all.
OK, we'll discuss that too.
But to get into it, when Taylor Swift was first signed as a teenager, she was signed to a label called Big Machine Records.
This label was owned by Scott Borchetta.
Taylor Swift was the very first artist ever signed to this label.
OK, imagine you, you start a record label and the first artist you sign is Taylor Swift.
Pretty good.
That's a pretty good move.
Pretty damn good, right?
That is a, that's a get, so.
Off the bat, Taylor Swift is carrying Big Machine.
She's not just their darling, she is quite literally their cash cow, OK. Big Machine is Taylor Swift, and for a very long time, this relationship is harmonious.
Um, Taylor and Scott work very closely together.
He's the owner of Big Machine.
She is his industry doll .
He has helped her write, record, uh, speak up for herself.
In a lot of ways, Taylor has described him as her mentor, member of her family by proxy.
They're very close.
It is known when Taylor begins her career that she wants to eventually own her master recordings.
This was no surprise to anyone, and those first few, 1st 6 albums, they exist fairly harmoniously, like I said.
But after Taylor releases Reputation, she is due for a new contract, a new contract negotiation, right?
We all know those can get pretty tense.
Now the problem with Big Machine, right?
So imagine you're Big Machine Records, you're brand new, and you land someone like Taylor Swift, who earns Grammys for her second album.
I mean, like, let's just put this in perspective.
They did not have the capital.
To do with Taylor Swift, what she wanted to do.
Part of the reason we have seen Taylor's career catapult so drastically is because she got a new label that had the capital to back her up, right?
So when Taylor enters these contract negotiations, she uses that as a as a ploy.
She's like, hey.
I can do this, but I want my master recordings.
She says, I want to be with Big Machine Records, but I wanna own my music.
It's like the leverage has flipped, right?
It's like you, you start your career, you, nobody knows who you are, they, they can get your music out, they have all the leverage, and that's why they're able to kind of own everything, but now the tables have turned, or are you an office fan?
Oh yeah, the turntables , the turn how the turntables, yeah, yeah.
And the thing is, is, is Taylor Swift, we all know her now as, as a very powerful businesswoman.
She entered those negotiations wanting.
To stay with Scott Borchetta.
Um, remember this is someone she described as family to media.
She did not want to leave and um Scott was not just Unwilling to hand over the masters, he offered her a deal where, um, every new album she recorded.
She would earn one of her previous albums back.
Oh man, but she didn't own the new one.
So she would be in this, exactly, you get it, this constant cycle.
Sounds like a uh That sounds like a, honestly it's, and we're gonna talk about this a little later, but it sounds like a like a fairy tale situation where like a witch offers you a deal, but like you're just like kind of enslaving yourself.
100%, that's exactly right, um, and when it comes to Taylor to these masters.
It didn't just include her music, it was the music videos, it was lyric booklets, photo shoots.
Taylor included her heartbeat on multiple tracks.
All of that was no longer hers.
Yeah.
And um When Scott made her that offer, she and her family declined.
Um, they that was kind of the end of her relationship with Big Machine Records, and she made it very clear that she knew he was going to sell her masters.
Her plan was just to kick the can down the road.
She would buy it when the time was right, and just re-sign with a new label, someone who had the capital to help boost her career even further.
At this point, It is still not an issue.
We need to make that clear, like, it sucked for her.
But it was still not a fight.
We were still good.
So this is around 2019.
In 2019, Taylor released her first album under her new label.
She officially owned it, um, and she made a big deal about that.
This is the first album I own .
That album was a Lover, um.
All of this really kind of the bulk of it went down between like 2018 and 2019.
When Scott Borchetta sold the Masters, Taylor found out on the news , he didn't let her know.
And um He sold them to Scooter Braun.
Scooter Braun.
There's been tweets, Instagrams.
Interviews, it is well documented that he has not just bullied Taylor Swift, he has body shamed her.
He has Teamed up with Kanye West.
Um, promoted his revenge porn thing he did in that music video against her.
This is not, this is not just a business person.
This is Someone who has bullied her incessantly, who will now be making money.
Off of things like her words that she wrote when she was 15.
It's insane.
Of course she was pissed off.
She reaches out.
Ask Scooter if she can have them.
Do you know what Scooter says?
Guessing he didn't say yeah.
Oh, he said yes, but do you want to know what the caveat was?
He wanted her to sign an NDA.
Yeah, I'll sell you your masters, but you can't talk about me.
You can't talk about the situation.
You can't put it in your music or in your writing, and you can't, like you can never mention my name ever.
Cannot explain enough.
These are her words.
This is her heartbeat, this is her image, her likeness, this is her work, her life's work.
This is probably where you heard about the masters, because this is when things went extremely public.
This is when Taylor gave the interview with Good Morning America, when Kelly Clarkson got involved and said, you should just re-record him, girl.
Taylor Swift released an open letter that Scooter Braun now held all of her masters.
Things immediately start moving.
At this time.
Taylor announces, yeah, I'm just gonna re-record him.
And her workaround here is because she owns those composition rights, because she's written the music.
So this is really a backdoor loophole situation, OK. Um, this is not something really most artists would be able to do.
But because she's put Herself into the lyrics, into the art, into uh the songs and everything.
She kind of, she's able to use the words, she just has to remake everything else, so she does.
With the goal Of D With the goal of devaluing her original 6 albums, so that Scooter Braun's investment is worthless, and it's something too that really only someone like Taylor Swift could do, who had the fan power, the money, right?
Um, the availability and then the support, um, when she announced, hey, I'm gonna re-record my albums.
Companies like Apple Music and Spotify, they vowed to push Taylor's versions primarily over her original recordings.
Again, helping to devalue these original recordings, that's the goal.
So she starts releasing them.
Fearless Taylor's version is a huge hit.
Red Taylor's version is a huge hit.
Eventually the Grammys themselves change their rules so that Taylor can't get awards on her re-recorded albums.
It's crazy.
2021 comes around, Taylor Swift announces her new album, and then 2022 we, we get the heiress tour, OK. At this time, Scooter Braun sells her masters to another company called Shamrock.
But he's not just selling the masters, he still gets profit off of them.
He's just, he's just not the legal owner, he's just the profiteer.
Era's tour starts, and you wanna talk about devaluing your old work, put a spotlight on all of it and show people what they're missing out on.
The Eras tour, we all know, springboarded her career into like next levels, right?
And suddenly you've got the world looking at Taylor Swift's collected works.
Everything from debut to her new albums that she's bringing out on this tour.
People are hooked.
Her discography.
is more profitable than ever.
Her Taylor's versions start outpacing the original versions.
They're streaming more, they're making more money, they're more recognizable.
It is easy for people to choose to listen to Taylor's versions.
Her master re-recordings plummet in worth.
It is dangerously close to these people making.
An investment that they're losing money on.
Yeah.
At this time Taylor, Taylor's mom and Taylor's brother, reach out to the company that currently owns her work, Shamrock Holdings, and present just that, hey, None of this has been in good faith.
We've now devalued the original work, and we are willing to pay you a large sum of money for all of those masters, and they finally, after 5.5 years of Taylor not owning her work, agreed.
On May 30th, 2025, Taylor surprised all of her fans by releasing her letter.
She posted on Instagram a series of photos of her with her original six albums, and it just said , You belong with me.
Read my letter on my website.
And the letter detailed how personal this was for her.
Every excruciating step that she was through in her career.
This letter showed how she took care of it, how the fans backed her up, and how fans that went to see her play on the Eors tour quite literally made this happen.
It was, um, I cried.
I remember where I was when I saw that announcement.
We call it Swiftdependence Day now.
Oh, that's great.
Um.
But it's, I think like just seeing her struggle, like she was mad as hell, mad as hell, Patrick.
Imagine your diary pages as a kid getting stolen from you, sold for profit, and you don't see any of that money anymore.
Yeah.
She's mad as hell, and finally to see a resolution, her get on new heights that summer and cry about how important these master recordings were to her and like the difference that it made in her life.
Pivotal for all of us.
Well this is incredible, first of all, thank you for taking me through all that, because I, I did not know most of the details here.
I understood the basics of it, right, that she could, she could kind of take back power and record her own versions, but I had all these other questions, and you've answered a ton of them, and it really speaks to me on a certain level because I am, am also an artist, is an actor, and What she does with her songs, the, the, you know, the, what I know of her, her catalog so far, she's very vulnerable, that's, that's part of what makes great art is, is vulnerability, and when you, when you share things lyrically in music, when I try to tap into personal things as an actor on stage, you You do damage to yourself a little bit, right?
Like you, you know, you're like, when I did The Crucible, uh last September, it is, if you've ever seen it, it's a very brutal ending for the, for the character that I played John Proctor, and it's like you're exhausted after you do one of these performances, and so for her to Literally pour her heart out onto the page and into music, and then when she performs these songs, they are personal to her.
I think that's a big part of her appeal, right , is, it's, it's not, they're not just fun songs, they're they're they're almost all about something that's meaningful to her or a part of her life, and so then to hear, To have that sort of taken away from you and then have somebody profiting off of it, and it's not really, it's not yours anymore, like what do you mean it's not mine?
I can I, I, I can imagine how insanely painful and frustrating and angry that made her, and to have pulled off this boss move of devaluing it to the point where she can go and then buy it back and now she has it, makes me admire her even more, and so, one, I have two questions.
One is How different are the versions, and 2 is, well, like what I was worried about, right, was that like before cause I, I don't think maybe if I knew she got them back, I, I forgot because I wasn't, I wasn't in this world yet.
So I was sort of like, if I listen to, I'm, I'm interested to hear the difference between the songs, but if I listen to like one of the old ones that I like giving money to Scooter Braun.
Not anymore.
Not anymore.
OK, so that's good, that's good to know.
And that was part of this is what I mean like when only Taylor Swift could do this, like straight up, I, you know I mean, like I'm very much a card carrying Swifty.
I didn't listen to her stolen albums again until she owned them.
I didn't listen to her debut album or her reputation album for years, because I refused to give those men.
A dime of my money from streaming, and that's what I mean, that this is something only Taylor could have done, because there is no other artist that could have mobilized a fan base in that way, you know.
How different are they?
Oh , they're not.
It's so good.
There is one specific interview that Taylor gave before the life of a showgirl, I think, um.
Where they're toggling back and forth, shake it off, I believe, um, between shake it off and shake it off Taylor's version , and even Taylor herself can't tell the difference.
He's like, your version, OG, you can't even tell.
Now there are some like The point was to devalue the originals, so she updated the artwork, um, and some of them she improves her vocals a little bit.
Um, every single one had these unreleased vault tracks that fans got to hear, um.
Infamous one from her fourth album Red.
There is a, she had mentioned in an interview years and years ago, oh, this song All Too Well, it started out as 10 minutes, and fans were like, hi, what?
Give us that.
We want the 10 minute version.
So she put that on, on the Red Taylor's version album.
It's a masterpiece.
We'll delve into that one too soon, um.
She changed a couple wording like, Phrasing in some lyrics, um, probably, I mean just, you know, perspective when you look back on your art and you just change little things, but It really takes a well-trained ear to hear the difference between the OG and the Taylor's version.
It was so well done.
Love it.
I love it.
OK, all right, I'm I'm on board.
I'm caught up.
This is, this is good, um, yeah, it's like it and like we'll come back to it, but my song choice for this week is directly when I say she was mad as hell, she was, she was mad.
She wrote music and it is the kind of music that like you go, oh.
I hope I don't ever upset someone like that one day.
Yeah, so look, I have to, I have to confess something, uh, the last week, um, you know about this, you, you know about this already, but To the listeners, I was not intent, so you, if you listen to last week's episode, we were talking about wedding outfit choices that spiraled into like a what we wore to prom .
Discussion, and and and you got to see pictures of us in like homecoming and prom gear.
I said that I wore an all white tux to my senior prom, which is true.
Because I, you know, I kind of wanted to do something a little bit different.
I thought it would be fun, and I said the words.
I, um, I Didn't Wear a a top hat or or use a cane or anything like that, I just wore a white tux.
And so after the show, I, I, I, yeah, I, I messaged my mom and I was like, hey.
We just had this discussion on this podcast.
Can you send me pictures of, of, of me from prom so that I can , we can put them into the show, and she sends pictures and I guess I'll just, I'll leave it here for producer Joanne to put up.
As you can see.
Uh, yeah, I did in fact wear uh a hat.
It's not a top hat, but it's a hat and I did have a cane.
I, I was not, I, I look back to, I even had white shoes, um, I was not lying to y'all.
I think I tried to scrub it from my mind that I made that decision.
Um, it's, you know, the brain with trauma, it just like.
Yeah, pushes it away.
Your brain was protecting you.
It, I think that's what it was, um, it's embarrassing, and I just, but you know what, this is a, we, we talked about how this is a positive show, we're not gonna lie to you here, and, uh, I've already thrown out a picture of me in a white tux out to the world.
I, I was looking back at these pictures too.
I also look like Marshall Mathers a little bit.
I don't know what was going on with the, the highlight color at the time.
Uh, but yeah, so rough, uh, rough era for me there, uh, with the, with the tux, but the truth is out, and, and now you all know that we'll never lie to you.
It could be worse.
I mean, how could it have been worse?
Is the photo evidence all the evidence you have, there's no videos or anything?
God, I hope not.
I thank God there weren't iPhones, cause all the other stupid stuff I probably did in high school and college, I am very glad that people weren't walking around with with video recorders in their pockets like they do today.
Right, very, very thankful.
Very thankful, and I think too this kind of brings us to back to Taylor and Travis's wedding because they took phones away, which is a crying shame.
Yeah, it is there was a couple performances, yeah.
Yes, yeah, so like you, I sent this to you, you already knew about it, of course, because you're always 3 steps of the, yeah, so.
Give, give the audience the details if they haven't seen it because I like , I, I, I read the, the article, but you like know apparently what song it is.
Apparently Travis and Taylor sang, they did a duet at their wedding, which is Awesome and hilarious, and I would like, I think if probably I got to choose, can you like, we'll get one clip that they would release from this wedding, that would be the one that I would want to see, but yeah, what, what do they do?
What are they saying?
What are the rumors?
So apparently like the second the stage opened up, it was just like a revolving door of like A-list musicians all night.
Taylor did duets with like Paul McCartney and Stevie Nicks.
OK, first off , how are you, Travis Kelsey, and you follow up Taylor and Paul McCartney and Taylor and Stevie Nicks.
Yeah, that's, you know, Travis never lacked for confidence.
That's true, and I'm sure he did his best.
I think Jason said, um, oh, he can always carry a tune, but he looked.
Yeah, it was kind of Jason who revealed this, right?
Like I think he was on the Ross Tucker podcast and he, he, yeah, yeah, and I think there is someone had previously said it was like one of their favorite rock songs, so really there's two options.
Um, the first is Teenage Dirtbag.
They had talked about a while ago, they sang that together at a bonfire, it could be it doesn't truly seem that fitting for a wedding to me.
I think they sang I Believe in a Thing Called Love.
OK, all right.
You know that one, the darkness, I believe in a thing called love.
Just listen to the rhythm of my heart, please cut that out.
No, no, no, no, we need to, we need to compose some music underneath that.
I don't think I know this song.
Well, that's your homework too.
It's so good.
It's very millennial.
Um, Taylor and Travis were like belting it at the US Open a couple summers ago, and I think that's how people latched on to like, oh, I think they sang that song together.
Um, people were putting some of the lyrics in their captions for the wedding and stuff, yeah.
I, the teenage dirtbag, like that's a.
That's a high song for to try to pull up is a great song, um , but it would be fun seeing those two sing that too, so that's I believe in a thing called Love.
It's very cute, it's very, it's.
Teenage Dirtbag is like a fireside hanging out guitar song, I think.
I believe in a Thing Called Love is very much a party song.
Like you sing it, you dance, you jump, you smile, you laugh, and you just enjoy yourself.
Yeah, that seems like probably the the good pick.
Yeah, smart pick.
Um, OK, well.
I mean I want to, I want to see this video.
So Taylor, Travis, I know you guys watched the show, um, hook us up, we won't release it, just send it to me and Jojo.
I think producer Joanne would like to see it too.
We'll sign NDAs.
I always say that if I ever stop talking, y'all just know I signed an NDA and I'm right where I want to be.
Yes, yeah, absolutely, um, really quickly before we get to becoming a swifty, I just, I wanted to read some reviews from.
Because we, again, we're trying to get to 100 reviews uh on Apple Podcasts, 10 5 star reviews please, and we told you that if y'all leave us a review and you write a review, we will read it on the show, unless you're mean or something, so, um, The, we got 3 new ones.
The, the first one I'm gonna read is from Zacky, Z13, uh, says that they say love Taylor, love Travis, love the podcast.
I've watched all three episodes and I've been loving them.
Keep them coming.
I've been a swifty for 3 years and I've been following Jojo's content for a while now too, so I was excited when I saw she was doing a podcast.
I feel like the combination of Chiefs plus Taylor and a podcast works so well together, excited to see more from the podcast.
Also, I have a song recommendation for Patrick.
Mary's song from her first album, it allows him to see more of Taylor's countryside going into debut TV possibly soon, if he hasn't explored her country music yet, but there's also an unintentional reference to Taylor and Travis in it, and I'm curious if he'll pick it up.
OK, all right, so don't spoil me here.
I want you so bad because it's the cutest thing ever.
I'm gonna have to make a note and check that one out.
What a great, what a great review from, from good.
Thank you , Zacky.
Yeah, Zachy, that's awesome.
Next from Sandra Lee, 73.
2 of my favorite things in one place.
Uh, I've been a Taylor fan since the beginning, but I never followed any particular NFL teams because of my state, West Virginia, doesn't have one.
I've usually only watch college ball, but now I have a reason to have a favorite NFL team too.
Welcome to the Kingdom.
Sandra, uh, it's great to have a podcast that truly combines the two things, uh , and it will be even more fun once the season starts.
Jojo and Patrick are both great hosts.
Keep up the good work.
Sandra.
Thank you.
That's so nice of you.
Yeah, thank you, Sandra .
We'll have to get you out to, you gotta get out to Kansas City and, and see a game at Arrowhead.
Um, and the last one, I think this is my wife.
There are some clues.
There are some clues, um, it's from Zimwi.
Patrick is adorable.
There you go.
There's a clue, there's an Easter egg there for you.
I love Patrick's on a journey to discover new music.
You guys have me hooked.
You know that is true.
She is listening to the podcast.
She does not listen to the Chiefs football version unless there's something I wanna show her from it.
But like she was like like comes into the house and she's like, yeah, so I listened to y'all's 3rd show on the car on my commute, and I was like, I'm so touched, so this is more in her lane and she's enjoying it, so thank you, I think, to my wife.
I love that.
I'll tell a short quick anecdote, I promise.
Um, when Taylor was first getting signed to Big Machine Records, um, she turned in a song, Teardrops on My Guitar, and The label owner Scott wasn't gonna sign her and um they were like, hey, play this song for your wife, and his wife heard it and his wife was like, no, you need to sign this girl.
Um, I always just feel like there's something she, she's a universally loved artist, but there's something that resonates really strongly for women, so I, I get it.
I love that your wife is listening.
Well, and lean on your spouses y'all.
I mean, my wife, her name is Meg, by the way, um, she's the absolute best.
She's my best friend.
I don't know what I would do without her, and through my whole like career, like everything, we, we lean on each other, and she gives me such good advice at this play that I'm doing right now.
I don't know that I would have gotten the uh the part without she let me stand in her office in the middle of her workday and do this monologue 12 times, and she gave me some really good tips on, on how I was doing it, and I put those into practice, so she's the best.
I love her.
If you're listening, hon, I love you.
Uh, OK, we can move on, sorry.
Well, then we get to kind of talk about what you thought, um.
With our next segment becoming a swifty, we wanna talk a little bit about last week, um, what song we, what did I recommend to you last week?
was The Prophecy.
Um, tell me your thoughts.
I had never heard the song.
Uh, listen to it in the car with Rory and Mag, as you guys know, Rory is a huge swifty.
Uh, he's 2, if you're just joining us for the first time, go back and, and watch episode one to see Rory, um, and We listened to it in the car and I immediately got the like the hook of the refrain.
I was like, OK, like this, I, I, this is a good song .
I like this, and then I've been listening to it, uh, nonstop in the mornings ever since, and I'll like, I'll play it 4 or 5 times in a row.
Um, and one of the things that you said to me last week was, you know, Taylor's been through it, and I was like, well, OK, like what does that mean, you know, and so I'm listening to the prophecy, and it really stopped me, it's not just like a breakup song.
But like it's, this is what I took from it, from the lyrics, you talked about how it's, it's lyrically uh dense and that is true, it's a longer song, um, I feel like it's, you know, it's the song about, Being terrified that heartbreak is gonna be like your permanent, you you're always, it's never gonna work out for you, and I think we've all probably felt that in our lives when there's someone or something that we really cared about and that we didn't think was gonna work, you know, and what's so interesting about it is that like, It's almost got like a haunting quality to it, you know, there's, there's, um, she's got like she's got all this money and she's got all this fame and success, but it doesn't matter, like those aren't things you can take with you.
They may be meaningful to you, but kind of just what I was talking about with my wife, like that that is what makes my life, like she is what makes my life worth living.
It doesn't matter if I get a raise or or whatever, her and my son are my entire world.
And I remember a time, we've been together a long time, we started dating when I was like 23, but there, there was a time I remember being lovesick and feeling lonely in New York City, and um I've always been sort of a commitment person, and I always wanted that.
And we know that for Taylor, she got pretty well into her life, much farther than I did, before she found her soulmate, and, you know, there's some really good stuff in there about like talking about like what, what the greater woman.
would do like, you know, um, you know, a lesser woman wouldn't give up and wouldn't beg and um I, I, I think it's just so powerful now knowing that like she found Travis, and it actually makes me angrier now listening to her or herself out in this song, it makes me angrier about the people that are like, this is a fake relationship.
Because it's like if you actually now like now that I know more about her because of of of this song, no way, man, no way would she pull that bullshit, like, you know, and there's just so such cool, like, you know, like the tarot cards and the fortune telling and like it's just such a really, I love it, it is in my rankings, which we're gonna go over later, and it's still new for me, and I think it could climb, but like, Um, you know, uh, I, I, I liked your recommendation two weeks ago.
This one though, like this, this is a hit a sweet spot for me, and a new part of Taylor's work.
When you hear my top 10, you're gonna see a lot of her like very poppy forward songs, cause I, that's the kind of style I dig, but I'm also like a big singer-song.
Songwriter guy and I like, I like the Avett brothers and you know what I mean, I was a big Dave Matthews fan back in the day, like I like these sorts of uh lyrically dense uh writers and, and, and some a little bit of emo.
So, um, you know, I think, uh, the emo kids, we love it, yeah, right, right, we love it.
There's something about the prophecy to me that's, it's really, it feels like it's written from her lowest point.
There's this.
Element of almost like animalistic like desperation of like there has to be something for me, like has to be that I think just It's heartbreaking to listen to, but I think knowing how it turned out for her.
It gave me anyway.
This is a great example.
I was gonna send you this song too.
I probably will still, but at the eres Tora Taylor did this thing where she would mash up different songs together, and sometimes it would change what that song meant by being mashed up and she would pick and choose different lyrics and put the bridge here with the chorus of the other song there and she One time did a mashup of the prophecy with a song of hers um called This Love about falling in love and just enjoying the relationship, and when she mashed it up, the point of the, the almost the climax of that song when she merged the two together, she says this love has changed the prophecy.
And it was so beautiful.
Travis, of course, was there for that.
It really, I, I was luckily there at that show and I remember just crying thinking like, yeah, like, yeah girl, you've got your happy ending, you've got your story, and I think seeing that especially juxtaposed with what Some would describe as the lowest moment is really, really beautiful.
Yeah, and it's what I like about the song, well, it's nice to listen to knowing that she's got a happy ending, but as you pointed out, her lowest point, like there's a despair in this song, um , you know, I don't want money, I just want someone who wants my company.
Like that's really like sad, it's really sad, sad we know that for famous people, especially somebody who is as famous as her.
It's even harder because you're very rich, you're very famous, you're very beautiful, you seem very cool, like, what, what, what are people's motives?
You don't, you don't know, it's just hard to know, especially with a new relationship, and so, it's, it's gotta be an isolating feeling to be that famous, and I know some people are like, well, let me play the violin for you, you're rich and famous and beautiful and talented, you know, but like, Again, I think what we all want is just someone to love us back and uh and someone to love and care for, and so this song is really sad and haunting and beautiful, and it's just really cool, like I said that That person came to her later in life, and probably being so career driven and all the things we mentioned held things up for her, um, and it was this guy who just like shot a shot and was like friendship bracelet in a dream, friendship bracelet in a dream, you know, and I just, I think it's just such a cool story and I wish them the most happiness.
I just, I just hope that they Have the life they want the rest of the way and uh you know, who knows I think it's interesting too that song cause it there's elements of Taylor and Travis together like um Zachy's mentioned earlier in the show in their review about these cute little connections that now that we see Taylor and Travis together, you, you know, you're talking about the prophecy.
And she thought her prophecy was to be alone in life, and now we have her husband, and there's all of these little connections that tie them together, and, you know, maybe the whole time that was the prophecy really, it's just, I don't, I could talk about it all day.
It's beautiful.
Yeah, you can feel like you can feel hopeless.
People feel, people feel hopeless sometimes, and that's why, that's why.
Fanom is important to me, uh, that's why doing content is important to me, because I hear from people who may be going through a time where they feel hopeless or it's a hard time, and I think artists like Taylor, that's why she meet like people may roll their eyes when they hear like, oh somebody cried, like, this is art, man, like art is a reflection of ourselves, it helps us understand the human condition, it helps us, um, Uh, it helps us develop empathy, and so how can we not have empathy for the artists who are, who are creating these things , um, and so it's just, it's just a, it's a great story, and she was in a hopeless place, and she wrote this beautiful song from it, and I just, I'm excited to see what she produces as married Taylor, you know, what kind of what's coming, you know, from Uh, from maybe one chapter of her life kind of closing and a new one opening, and obviously like there are all the things that could happen, they could have children and start a family.
I mean it's just, there's so much more art for her to do, and that's really cool.
Yeah, it really is like it can follow you with every phase in life.
I, this is why I'm like, I'm so excited for your journey as a swifty cause I have I have so many things for you.
Every week I'm like, do I want to talk about folklore yet?
Cause that's a whole ordeal.
Do we want to talk about all too well 10 minute version yet?
That's a whole thing, like there's just.
Yeah, like you said, like art is meant to just, it's meant to be beautiful and touching, but it's also meant to be sometimes really ugly and just raw and vulnerable, and I think that Taylor finds that balance so well, um.
I do, I mean, do you want to talk about your rankings, cause I think that we've got, I mean, I think the way that the prophecy fit in your overall rankings is surprising to me.
Yeah, it was for me too when I sat down to do it.
So welcome to our first edition of Patrick's Top 10, as I'm going on this journey to become a swifty.
Um, I have a handful of Taylor songs that I know and that I like.
Mainly, and, and, and a lot of them are because of, you know, they were very popular songs, and those are the ones that reached me as a non-fan.
And so I was like, well, let's, why don't I put together a top 10 list, and then as we're going on this journey, and I'm getting exposed to her catalog, would it be fun to track over time how that top 10 list changes, and what, what it ends up becoming my all-time favorite Taylor song.
So I'll start us off, um , let me pull up the list here, there it is, OK, so number 10 for me right now is, is Bad Blood , um, and again I said, you know, you're gonna hear some of the poppy ones, this one's great, can't get it out of your head when you hear it.
9 for me is style, uh, love this one, yeah, one of the best pop songs ever.
That intro could raise me from the grave.
Yes, yeah , super poppy, super fun.
Number 8 on my list is karma, um.
I don't think I need to explain this to anybody.
It's just a great, it's a great song.
It's a big signature of her .
7 is Cruel Summer, um, again, like I'm, I'm Mr. Poppy.
Number 6 for me is this one came out of nowhere for me.
I wasn't, I had heard it, but it wasn't a favorite of mine, but as you know, Rory, my son, Hu Swifty, this is his new favorite Taylor song, and it is you need to calm down.
Yeah, you need to calm down, and now Mag and I are, you know, because of my connection with him, like when he starts like having a meltdown and stuff, we'll be like, you need to calm down.
We like, we're trying, you know, like we're like literally doing the lyrics, so he loves it, um, that's a big favorite.
He likes dancing to that one.
Number 5 is the prophecy.
I am like.
After a week, this song, I think probably to it really helps me be like doing the lyrical analysis and like really trying to dig in and not just listen to the song and be like, oh, it's, you know, it's boppy, great, um, so I really, really like this song.
I could see it potentially moving up in my rankings uh over time here.
This is real quick, this is the only song that on this top 10 list that is not an upbeat, like traditionally pop song, like this is.
Prophecy debuting at number 5, guys, this is a big deal.
It is a big deal, it's a big deal, and I'm excited because now I know a little bit more about her range, and so I'm like, oh, OK, like what else is there, cause this kind of song does really appeal to me.
So, um, number 4 is the fate of Ophelia, uh, this is just such a good song, um, a huge hit, but I was always shocked because number 3 for me is, is Opolite.
When, when the, when the album came out, I was like, and I heard Travis say Opali's my favorite song.
That's the one I checked out at first, and Fate of Ophelia was the one that was like all over the radio at the time, and I was like, I think Opalite's better , so I'm still there, that's still where I'm at.
Um, number 2 is Shake It Off, uh, because of the thing with Rory again, go back and watch episode one, obviously a great, great song, we listen to it all the time here in the house.
Uh, it, it really is a contender for number one for me because of my the connection with my son, but my literal like intro, I probably had heard her other songs before, but literally I didn't know who she was, but my intro, the first song that I was like, I like this Taylor Swift song was Blank Space.
Love this song, one of my favorite music videos of all time, that's a big part of , of my draw to this song.
So, so that's it.
Blank Space, Shake It Off, Opal Light, Fate of Ophelia, The Prophecy, You Need to Calm Down, Cruel Summer, Karma Style, Bad Blood, Patrick's top 10.
And like blanks, I mean Blank Space is great.
People are like, oh, everyone loves Blank Space, you're in good company.
It's Travis Kelsey's favorite song still to this day, um, but I remember when that album first dropped and I was like, oh, blank Space, blank Space, um, it is, it is well done, and I think people just forget how good it is because it's been so commercially successful.
Um, but if y'all want to follow Patrick's journey, I've got a Spotify playlist up.
I'm gonna link it in my bio.
Every week I'm gonna add the songs that we listen to, one, so that we can track what we've suggested for you.
This list will get long and out of hand very quickly, um, but two, because I kind of wanna just see where we're at with at least with your top 10, see what falls in and out, how things change, and I do want to give you a warning, eventually your top 10. are basically gonna be like, it just depends on how you wake up in the morning.
They'll just change every single day.
There won't be constant.
Yes, yeah, I, and I know that with prolific artists, um, that that's what happens to people, and I, and I get it, right, like.
The, the commercial songs, everybody, you know, and then, but the, the real fans really dive into, like I'm a big Green Day fan, right?
And so I have like a bunch of, yeah, yeah, like it's like Macy's Day Parade is one of my favorite songs of theirs, that's not like a huge, was never a big huge hit for them, um, and so I, I've sort of done that with them a little bit, uh, so I'm excited about this.
I'm excited that you all can get the playlist of my top 10, uh, this is such a cool fun experiment.
Um, and maybe you guys can let us know, like, share, share with us, so sign up for the text group, let us know your top 10, uh, maybe we can feature some on the show.
I think that would be a really fun thing to do just for people to hear different Swifty's top 10s.
I would love that.
I would love that.
Um, I do want to, uh, there's one, when they see this, when our Swifties see this, they're gonna look at this list.
They're gonna hear you say that you like the singing songwriter type stuff, and they're gonna ask where the hell is folklore on this list.
So we're gonna do folklore.
Folklore.
This is our, so for next week, this is our homework and your journey to becoming a swifty .
Folklore is the surprise album Taylor dropped in 2020.
It is an indie album.
It was a huge departure from her.
Other sounds, right?
And the song from Folklore I want you to listen to, I mean like listen to the whole album if you want, it's incredible, it's life changing.
If you're not as swifty at y'all, Folklore will make you one .
But the song I wanna, I want you to listen to is written about the fight for her masters before she earned her master's back.
She was mad as hell.
She wrote a song called My Tears Ricochet.
And it has been described by Taylor and by some of her producers as her most emotional, best written track song ever, track 5 ever.
OK, 2020, 2020, and I , I'm always gonna come prepared with a snippet of the song that just kind of gives you an overview.
Um, in the bridge of my tear, my tears ricochet, Taylor says, I can go anywhere I want, just not home.
You can aim for my heart, go for blood, but you'd still miss me in your bones, and I still talk to you when I'm screaming at the sky, and when you can't sleep at night, you hear my stolen lullabies.
Oh, OK.
It's good.
Um, it's incredible, and, um, I don't think that you, I think you're gonna be hooked.
I think you are about to go down a journey with a new favorite album.
OK. OK, I'm excited for you.
I am excited.
All right, my tears ricochet.
I'm on it, uh, very excited.
Uh, you know, it's just funny is I know we just have a couple more little topics to get to, but like, how do we know when I'm a swifty.
I mean, unofficially, I think you're there.
We don't wanna, we don't want to, we'll have to end the show here.
Um, you know, I think, I, you know, it's, it's interesting.
I'm, I'm obviously like a, uh, uh, I'm a fan of hers, clearly, um, and we're doing this podcast, but like the music, I think that there's, I don't know, it'll be, it'll be an interesting like where we think I really go over, where I go over from being Somebody, right, it's like somebody who's like, oh yeah, I like a few of her songs, it's great and she seems really cool and fun and interesting to like, I'm obsessed, right, like real true fandom.
A lot of people, for a lot of people, the Folklore album was that point, um, and I think it's like, again, just put yourself back in the mindset, right?
Um, it was early 2020.
Everything was shutting down.
Taylor herself had to cancel.
She, it was like a mini tour kind of, but she had to cancel that.
No one was going out anymore.
Taylor's surprise drops an album, a whole album that she had just written in quarantine, and the songs are storytelling songs.
She's got um Bon Iver on there.
She's producing with Aaron Dessner and Jack Antonoff and It's We say all the time that Taylor Swift is a poet.
Folklore was the one that made like everyone finally recognize like, oh this girl is serious, she's a songwriter.
Yeah, OK, OK.
There's so much.
With this album.
Which is, I think probably like we'll probably talk about a lot of it next week y'all, so like the teenage love triangle and all those things.
Make sure you tune in next week.
I'll, I'll teach Patrick everything, I promise, but um.
I think the Folklore album is gonna be the one.
Where you feel comfortable calling yourself like Swifty Light.
OK, OK, all right, all right, I'm excited.
Yeah, we'll, we'll see if we know the exact moment.
It'll probably be I'll just show up and I'll have a, a tailored shirt on, and we'll know, uh, what do we got next?
Oh, the Chiefs stadium, right?
Yeah, we gotta talk a little bit about the Chiefs, don't we?
Yeah, of course.
Look, it's very swift heavy right now, uh, but football is right around the corner, uh, which we're extremely excited about.
We're talking a ton of football on this show, um, and the Chiefs just released, uh, We'll put them up on the screen for y'all.
Have you seen these, Jojo, the renderings of the new, the newly, I'm gonna get on my phone so I can open them, um.
This is a hot topic for Kansas City.
What do you think?
Look, I, I love Arrowhead.
It's one of my favorite places in the entire world, um.
I think the stadium is so cool.
I love the architecture, and I love outdoor football.
I'm bummed that they're going to a dome situation, however, The looking at these renderings.
Like they're gonna do what they're gonna do, so, you know, you kind of gotta go with the flow here.
They're keeping, it looks very similar to Arrowhead now inside, obviously there is a glass roof, but it keeps that really cool like pointed shape, almost like spaceship look, um.
I think the big thing that jumps out at me that I'm a little upset about, but I, I think I kind of see it, is I love the arrowhead scoreboards, the football-shaped scoreboards on either side.
They're so cool and unique, and the rendering I'm looking at doesn't have those.
But there does seem to be a callback to the shape on the sides, if you kind of look, you see it.
Yeah, there's , it's hard because there's not that many great, there's there's only a few renderings, but it looks like on the sidelines of each sideline up at the top, there's like Half the scoreboard, and it's like longer and then there's something in the middle, maybe more seating or a press box or something.
It's, yeah, the press box on one side and then the suites on the other, it looks like.
So, so it looks like there's a callback to it and it looks like they've taken the, they're taking the ring of honor and putting it all the way up at the top, uh, which is kind of really cool.
So the renderings look pretty good, like it's.
I don't love everything about it, but if it were up to me, they'd just stay at Arrowhead and renovate Arrowhead, um, so, you know, but it's like, it's not a disaster, and, and it keeps the soul of, of what we're used to.
Kansas City is gonna Kansas City.
I mean, We can turn anything into like this city holds so much just like in its heart and soul that like you can bring the Chiefs anywhere and Kansas City will show up and support them and bring the energy and the love, um.
I don't know.
I don't, I don't hate it.
I've never been someone that like openly opposed it.
I mean, Like you said, it does kind of like give nods to the current stadium.
They're not, it's, this is not like a I mean it is a revamp, but it's not, they didn't make it sofi, you know what I mean?
Right, right, it's, it still looks, it still looks like an arrowhead.
It feels like um, just, you know, upgraded, a lot bigger, a little nicer.
Real quick before we go, we're just gonna do a, a mailbag because again, we really want y'all to, to, to join this, this text group.
And again you'll be entered to win a Chiefs jersey when we get to 100 reviews on Apple Podcasts, and you'll be entered to win automatically all of our, uh, giveaways moving forward, but also you get to, you get to hang out a little bit with me and Jojo and, and hear from us and text and it's free, don't worry about that, we're not gonna, like I said, blow up your phone.
Uh, so again, if you want to join the text group, um, the information is that you need to text Swifty.
To 816-477-5421.
And some things might happen, like what happened to the, the people that are already in the text group today, which is right before we recorded, I was like, hey, we want to do a mailbag, give us some questions, and y'all responded, we got tons of, of questions like almost immediately.
Obviously we don't, we don't have time to do one today, I'm sorry, but we'll do mailbag segments in the future, so shout out to Penny.
Uh, Penny sent in and she said, uh, I assume it's a she, but I don't know.
Penny says, they say, will any wedding photos be released by Taylor and Travis, and will Taylor only attend the Chiefs home games this year?
What do you think, Jojo?
Um, wedding photos, yes.
I think Dior, uh, Taylor's dress designer, confirmed a few days after her wedding that everyone was waiting to move until Taylor did.
Um, to me, That sounds like an official collaboration that they've agreed to not post what Taylor was wearing until she posts it, but I think the second she posts, we will see videos of that dress on a mannequin in in the Dior.
Sewing center, whatever they call it, I, we will see it.
It will be one of the most liked photos of all time.
Yeah, right, when if she puts it out on like Instagram or something like that, like it's gonna go nuts, so, yeah, she, I think she just placed this in a way that she can be in control of it, so there's not some weird frenzy to be the first to release it.
Like, I, yeah, I'm not worried, she'll release it.
I'll be asleep, I'm sure it'll be on a Thursday or I'll be on a flight with no Wi Fi, but they'll come out.
Yeah, yeah, um, and then the second part of the question about whether or not she'll just go to the home games.
I don't think so, um, I, you know.
I don't know.
Do they have a house?
They bought a place.
Obviously Travis is a place.
Yeah, Travis, Travis bought a new, a new home literally like after they dated only a few months, so they had a house in, yeah, on the Kansas side.
So I guess they probably have a couple of different places, um, maybe they'll pick out one together.
I, I think we'll see her on the road as well.
She's so busy, we don't know what she's going to be doing or what's going to be going on, and I'm sure she would love to come and see Travis as much as she can, especially knowing that this may very well be his final season playing football.
And so I think you can pretty much guarantee she'll be at the first game.
And the last game, whichever whichever and wherever that is, um, but like, yeah, like if they play in Denver and she's over that way and she can get to the game, I don't see why she wouldn't show up to some away games, just gotta make a call, they're gonna accommodate her.
I mean there's a couple, uh, it's kind of a loaded question, isn't it?
Cause her first season she went to tons of home and away games and then like.
Really last season things kind of changed.
She didn't even go to every home game, so I think it's just a matter of like what is she, for me, I think I don't, I don't see her going to away games until postseason, um, only because Um, When you go to Arrowhead and Taylor Swift is there, Arrowhead does not show Taylor on the big screens.
They, they haven't done that since like the first game she went to, I think, um, and I think she likes it that way because there's no opportunity for her to get booed by the stadium.
Um, however, when she went to like MetLife and other places to see Travis play, she got booed pretty loudly, um, and in my opinion, I think that's one of the reasons that she didn't really go to any away games last year, so who knows, but I think that she'll be at most of the home games, which is incredible and, and very fun.
Yeah, and she's, she's a wife now, so is she gonna be, I mean they let her, she was able to get down on the, on the field.
In the Super Bowl, um, before, and I don't know if she's ever been down on the field at Arrowhead.
I'm sure they'd let her if she wanted to be.
She had when they won the uh AFC West, or uh when they won the AFC, sorry.
Yeah, it's gotta be a weird thing, right?
Like, if they have a policy, and I don't know if they do, but if they have a policy that's like only only family, like only wives, and so then it's like, if you let Taylor Swift down because she's Taylor Swift, then everybody's gonna be like, well, my girlfriend that I started dating last week wants to come down, and I can understand where that'd be a complicated position for, for the Chiefs.
I think the one thing that I saw that there's like an unofficial rule for that for like before the games, apparent, and I don't know if this is true, this could just be a rumor that only the wives went sidelined before the game started, so maybe we'll see that this year, who knows?
And maybe it might not even be all of them, like they can't, there's a lot of guys on that team.
I mean, if everybody's wives show up, you got 50 people running around down there, like, so they, they may just be like.
You know, if you're like rookie guy, right, you know, like, can my wife come we're like, no, like, well, well, Patrick's bringing his wife, like, yeah, she's Patrick Mahomes, so there may be, there may be a tier system there.
Um, I don't think they're making, I don't think they're making Patrick Mahomes park in the back of the parking lot, I can tell you that.
That's valid, yeah, um, man, we did it.
We got through all these topics, a little bit of a longer show for us, but this was a good one, and mainly because we got this incredible crash course from you, I did.
At the top of the show, and I'm excited for anybody else who didn't know all that, you did such a great job explaining it.
Thank you.
I feel like I info dumped for like 40 whole minutes, but I hope y'all enjoyed it.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, um, that's what we're after here, just a really fun.
And positive shows.
So listen, uh, we'll be back, uh, next Friday, and we're recording this midweek, but it's gonna air on Friday, so we'll be back every Friday from here on out.
We're gonna go through this whole season, we're really, really excited and I'm excited to continue going on my journey to become a full-fledged swifty.
So thank you everybody so much for listening to the show.
Thank you to producer Joanne and producer Sean who are a huge help in getting this thing rolling every week.
I'm Patrick Allen.
She's Jojo in KC.
We'll see you next week.
But until then, go Travis, Go Taylor, go Chiefs.
Go Chiefs.
