Simms and Patrick debate Brady vs. Peyton
Chris Simms and Dan Patrick discuss the best quarterbacks in their prime, as Simms thinks Peyton Manning is the best signal caller at the height of his abilities.
Video Transcript
Our, our upcoming guest instigator?
Oh, Chris Simms?
Yeah.
I think he hopes to instigate.
Pro Football Talk Live co-host, and he, has his Unbuttoned podcast.
I was watching the Unbuttoned podcast last night, by the way.
Wow.
Doing a little, little homework there.
And, NBC College Football analyst as well.
All righty, you caught my attention here, and a good portion of America, football fans.
The top 10 quarterbacks of all time in their prime.
Right.
Okay.
Where'd this come from, and what does in your prime mean?
Well, I think we're, like Okay, so we're, we're getting to the time of the year where, you know, we're trying to find some creative things to talk about.
So NBC kind of comes to me, right?
And they go, "Hey..." And, and I got questions all the time.
"I'd love to hear your top 10 greatest quarterbacks of all time."
So I did do a list prior to that, I hope you saw that, where, yeah, I had Brady number one, and it was more about the career, and the consistency, and the longevity, and the whole career itself.
And of course, the accolades and the awards and all that.
I'll take that in- all into account.
But as I was doing that exercise, I text NBC and I went, "You know, like, I think we gotta do another list," because I, I do think there's something to players in their prime.
And there's certain guys where I'd go, "Yeah, this guy's career was better," but in their prime, in a six or seven, eight-year window, I'd go, "Well, I'd take this other guy over him," even though the career in totality of somebody else was better.
And so that's where I said, "I think we need to do two lists.
I think that's the only fair way to do it."
And that's where we came up with in their prime, and that's where this list is from.
Okay.
My issue with it is- Yeah in your prime, I wanna factor in the playoffs.
Yeah.
And Peyton Manning would not be number one on that list.
Right.
Okay.
All right, so I have a defense of that.
First off, like P- Peyton Manning, one, is, played on some teams where they went 12 and 4, 11 and 5, 13 and 3.
And I'd go, if it wasn't Peyton Manning playing quarterback, they were 10 and 6, 9 and 7 football teams.
And everything was predicated on their football team.
Wait a minute, the Colts were loaded with talent.
Right.
And they also went to Super Bowls where they were letting up, what, 200 yards a game rushing the football every game.
But look at that offense.
He put up numbers.
Look at the offense that he played with.
I, I get it.
I'm not gonna sit here and ever say- He had a Hall of Fame running back, Hall of Fame wide receivers.
I, I understand that.
Great tight end.
Right.
He had a lot there, and they went through him from the start, from day one.
As compared to maybe somebody like Brady where they went, "Hey, we'll play defense, we'll run the ball.
If you just throw for 200 yards, we'll win the game."
"And don't, and don't turn it over too much."
And with Peyton Manning it was, "Hey, if you don't throw for 350 and four touchdowns, we can't win the game."
And that's to me where it's different.
And I'll just tell you, like I said on my podcast, my whole career You know, again, I, you know I think Tom Brady's the man.
And, and Tom Brady in some ways is the most overrated guy and, and the most underrated guy in some ways, and I'll discuss that later.
But when I was in buildings in my prime, I just will tell you, the building was way more on edge with Peyton Manning coming to town rather than, oh, it was just Tom Brady.
It was a little bit more of like, "Hey, it's Bill Belichick.
We gotta deal with that.
Yeah, we know Brady's there too.
That's gonna be a handful.
We got it."
But I mean, defensive coordinators and defenses when Peyton Manning was coming to town, it was like they were shaking in their boots all week, and there was a, a difference there.
I, I understand that.
Yeah.
But he- I- He's an average- You're, you're taking team accolades a little too much.
See, this is where I try to separate this.
Brady was afforded in the ability to play really average in some playoff games and still go to the Super Bowl.
I mean, he threw three interceptions in two different AFC Championship games- Yep or championship games, and went to a Super Bowl.
He threw one touchdown and two interceptions against the Ravens and went to a Super Bowl, right?
He threw for 200 yards and two touchdowns and one interception against the Colts one year and went to the Super Bowl.
So it wasn't based around him.
And where these other guys, I would go, if they played like that on their football teams in their prime, no way, right?
I mean, there's just no way those teams would've won, and that's where, you know, I try to balance this out.
It's not an easy exercise and, I'm glad you're getting on me for it.
Okay.
But Brady in his prime was his entire career.
Yeah.
Well, that's where you can, you can certainly say he had two careers.
Chris at 44, he threw for 5,300 yards and 43 touchdowns.
Totally amazing.
Again, amazing.
And he had great talent around him, just like you talked about, but Brady was afforded luxuries of the greatest pass protection of any quarterback of all time.
That's not me, those are any analytics site you look at.
The most open receivers in the history of the game.
The greatest defensive coordinator ever in the history of the game.
They invented the slot receiver.
I mean, he had, he had other things where I'd go other people didn't have those luxuries to have that around them.
Now, he's the man, I get that.
But in his prime, okay, let's just say his absolute prime, his physical peak prime, 2003 to 2010, '11, '12, whatever, right?
Of those years, m- maybe one year you go he was the best quarterback in the NFL.
All the other ones, it goes Peyton Manning, it goes Aaron Rodgers into the end of, end of that prime there.
And so that's where I, I argue that a little bit, but it's not an easy exercise and I, I challenge the conversation.
Yeah.
And, and look, Aaron Rodgers is the quintessential unbelievable regular season, throwing touchdown passes and not throwing interceptions- Totally getting to the playoffs.
Right.
I, you know, I'm, I'm fine with him high on the list.
I just think there has to be It has to be weighted towards what did you do at the end of the year?
Well, yeah, I, I, I understand that, but see, see, too much of that is a little too, at times, like I'm saying, is just team related.
And, and, and these great quarterbacks, these phenoms, what I would call you, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes in their prime, first off, the team and everything was based on them right away.
It was just like, "Whoa, we've never seen anything like you, so we're just gonna play off of you, and you carry the team."
And it really wasn't like that for Brady until 2007 to where they kind of, kind of did that.
So that's where I push back against it.
And then, two, I mean, come on, Aaron Rodgers, yes, you know, they had some really good teams, but there was a number of years, early years when I used to come on with you and go, "I mean, they're, they're barely a playoff team.
I mean, who's to really talk about?"
But we put him in a Super Bowl window because he was that good.
And that's where, you know, I try to balance that out.
But it, it's not easy, like I said.
Yeah, well, you know, you had Peyton playing for a Hall of Fame coach, one of the brightest offensive minds in Tom Moore.
He had a Hall of Fame wide receivers.
Yeah, no, I hear you.
And he, I mean, Dallas Clark was a great tight end.
You had- I- Edgerrin James, you had Marshall Faulk before that.
Uh- No doubt.
I hear that.
He wasn't, he wasn't lacking of offensive talent.
I, I understand that.
I, I totally do.
But also, too, he was, nobody was more of an offensive coordinator on the field, nobody did more checks and audibles at the line of scrimmage and screwed over defenses in the history of the game.
You don't think Tom Brady could have done that?
No, I, I do.
I do.
I, of course.
Okay.
He was very good at that.
I don't think he could have done it to Ta- to Peyton Manning's extent, no.
Peyton Manning's special that way.
That, that is a special, special human being.
And the fact that, yes, we, on Sundays, he was an inevitable force that we were like, "Oh, here it is at 3:30.
Oh, oh, well, the Colts are down, but I bet you they're coming back, and I bet you he's got 350, and he's about to throw a touchdown to win the game again."
And they barely squeak it out, and we go, "Oh, the Colts, the Colts, the Colts," and yeah, they were, they were really good.
I get that.
But they were also predicated around him and his talents and totality.
Brady didn't have any offensive weapons.
I know.
Come on.
Gronk, the greatest tight end ever.
Gronk was a second round draft pick with a bad back.
Moss, the, Moss, the greatest receiver ever.
Moss, Moss, at how long- Welker, the greatest slot receiver ever.
Edelman, the greatest slot receiver in the invent- And who made them?
Who made them the greatest slot receivers?
Well- Edelman was a quarterback.
Wes Welker got kicked to the curb by the Dolphins.
No, I would tell you that first off, that, they were, it was an incredible offense.
They did so much, and they were ahead of their curve as New England Patriots in evaluating that.
There was no such thing as a slot receiver until the New England Patriots started to go, "Hey, let's just not move anybody here and go, 'Oh, he runs this route good.'
Let's make a true position for him there."
Nobody knew- So, you know, again- Julian Edelman was gonna be good.
Come on.
Okay.
Okay.
It doesn't matter.
What's that, what's that mean?
I mean, you know, Brandon Stokley was on the Colts.
We didn't know he was gonna be good either, and there he was running down the touch- touching touchdowns everywhere.
You know, so, so that, I don't think that's necessarily a, a fair comparison.
And like I talk about, I named a lot more, I think, advantages for Brady.
But then, you know, again, there's Mahomes, who I have number two.
Mahomes is incredible.
I mean, what do you say about that?
I mean, Mahomes again- I would take Mahomes over Peyton Manning.
Wow, okay.
All right.
That, it's a tough one.
That was the one that was, it was close.
And I think Peyton- And certainly if I factor in the playoffs, I, I'm taking Mahomes over Peyton.
Yeah.
Well, listen, I think Mahomes even too with the Peyton thing, it's a great conversation.
Mahomes has a chance to be the greatest quarterback on both sl- both lists all time, really.
I mean, he's still, you know, in his prime but dealing with this, but he was a phenom, and again, he took over from day one in his prime.
And again, what I would say even with the Peyton thing is, you know, hey, he, he got the, a luxury here, Mahomes too, of winning some Super Bowls and being a part of a defensive football team.
That, that's what they were for their last two Super Bowl wins.
I mean, they could rely on Spags and those defense to hold people down, and then Mahomes was clutch in the fourth quarter, and he'd come away and, and make some plays- You, you mean like- to win the football game Peyton when he was with the Broncos when the defense carried him to a Super Bowl?
You mean like that year?
I, listen, I, I'm with you there.
Yeah.
Listen, I, w- I was, that was the start of my media career.
I was literally the first one in that first Super Bowl to go, "They're gonna get their butts whooped against the Seahawks."
In the second Super Bowl I was going, "I don't know if he's one of the top 20 quarterbacks in football."
"He might be the worst quarterback."
So don't worry, I didn't forget about that.
But he also did go to a Super Bowl with four different coaches.
Nobody's been able to do that, and that's pretty incredible.
Yeah, we had Tony Dungy, but those three other ones, they weren't in the Hall of Fame.
And, and in some of those cases, yeah, in the playoffs it was a letdown, but he also ran into some good teams and, you know, I don't remember his defense ever making a big play and a big moment in any of those games to ever really help them out either.
It was, "Oh, we're down 21-6 against the Patriots.
Peyton, oh, Peyton, Peyton, bring us back.
We gotta c- you gotta do it."
And so that's where I just give him a little more of a, a bump maybe than you do, obviously.
All right.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't- Peyton Manning, Dan Patrick doesn't like you, just so you know, Peyton Manning.
No.
No.
That's, that, there was a time when he didn't like me, but, you know.
Oh, okay.
I don't, I don't have any problem.
Yeah.
Well, that's how, that's how we roll, you and me.
I mean, we talk a lot and we say some things, so some people like us and some don't.
No, I told him, did he think about taking less money with the Colts so they could ensure that they kept those players together?
And- Yeah I think it was four years where he didn't talk to me.
Okay.
All right.
Good.
I mean- He can hold a grudge too, apparently.
We, we w- yes.
He would be up there.
Yeah, he, he wasn't, Jalen Brunson or, or, or Tom Brady in taking less money.
Okay.
All right.
I didn't think we would be yelling at each other in July.
Nah, I don't- But it- We weren't yelling.
We were having a good, I think, spirited conversation.
You're passionate, I'm passionate.
And I know I'm not I, like, again, when I do these things, I don't sit here and go, "Oh, what I say is written in stone."
"You shall listen to me."
This is, this is sports bar talk, except, you know, I feel like I have maybe a little more nuance than, nuance than your normal sports guy.
I'm obsessed with football, I'm obsessed with quarterbacks, and you know, I have a pretty good feel for the history of the game.
So that's where, you know, I, I love this kind of stuff.
But if you had gone to the dispensary, you wouldn't be this animated.
No, you're right.
I'd probably be a little more chill- and I wouldn't have done anything.
And, you know, I'd be, "Oh, Dan, you know, you're a little crazy."
Y- unless you had sativa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
I still would've been probably more subdued, even on sativa.
All right.
Great to see you.
All right.
Thank you, buddy.
You're the man.
See you, buddy.
That's Chris Simms, Pro Football Talk Live co-host.
He also has his podcast, Unbuttoned.
Wait, I thought it was Buttoned.
Is he being snarky with the Unbuttoned podcast because he has his button all the way up, Paul?
It's always buttoned to the top.
I know
