Why the Dream Are Peaking at the Perfect Time

Note: This episode was recorded before the Atlanta Dream signed DeWanna Bonner, so some of the discussion and analysis reflects the roster situation at the time of recording. DESCRIPTION: The playoff field is officially set, and were breaking down the biggest questions facing every team as the postseason approaches! Zena is joined by Atlanta Dream sideline reporter Autumn Johnson to take a closer look at the playoff picture, including why the Dream are hitting their stride at the perfect time and how head coach Karl Smesko has built trust and confidence within the team. Before diving into the postseason, we look at the record-breaking performances shaping the league. From Angel Reeses historic rebounding numbers and Kelsey Mitchells scoring streak to Kayla McBrides record-setting 3-point performance and Olivia Miles rookie assist record. Plus, Sabreena sits down with Charlotte Crown guard Deja Kelly of the UPSHOT league to discuss the leagues impact on womens basketball, the opportunities it provides, her growth as a player, and the competitive environment the league creates.. No Offseason is a part of The Athletic Podcast Network: Sign up for the No Offseason Newsletter: 00:00 Intro 02:19 Angel Reese sets new WNBA rebounding record 05:44 The Dream heating up at the right time 09:57 What's fueling Kelsey Mitchell's scoring record? 13:28 Why Kelsey Mitchell should be in the MVP race 16:27 Breaking down Kayla McBride's elite shooting 19:42 What makes Olivia Miles such a great facilitator? 31:37 How the Dream turned things around 34:15 How Karl Smesko has built trust with the Dream 37:31 Minnesota's playoff questions 39:25 What's missing for Golden State 41:22 The Aces playoff checklist 43:06 The Dream's playoff must-haves 47:46 How can the Fever be more efficient in the playoffs? 48:48 How will New York manage their playoff rotation? 50:49 What must Washington improve? 52:38 Dallas X-factors for success 01:02:57 How UPSHOT is expanding women's basketball 01:04:54 Inside the day-to-day of UPSHOT 01:06:54 How UPSHOT compares to other leagues Related links and articles: Follow and listen to the audio podcast: Get in touch! Leave a comment wherever youre listening, or email us at NoOffseason@TheAthletic.com Show Links: -YouTube: @No-Offseason -Instagram: @tanooffseason [ -TikTok: @no_offseason [ Credits: -Zena on BlueSky: @zenakeita -Sabreena on BlueSky: @sabreenajm -Chantel on BlueSky: @chanteljennings -Layshia on IG: @layshiac -Annie on X: @anniecostabile -Produced by Taneka Burrell -Executive Produced by Andrea B. Scott Visit the Yahoo Women's Sports Hub: Full Episodes Playlist: Shorts Playlist: Thumbnail: Luke Hales / Staff / Getty Images Sport via Getty Images Paras Griffin / Stringer / Getty Images Sport via Getty Images

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Video Transcript

Not to be dramatic, but we might be witnessing the best rebounder of all time in Angel Reese, and it's only year three, right?

I mean, she's so young in her career.

I don't think I've ever seen Angel take a game off when it comes to rebounding and defense, you name it.

She's in a league of her own, and that's dated back to not just college, her high school days.

Like, this is Angel Reese through and through.

She's mastered this craft.

It's her motor.

26 rebounds is insane, by the way.

Insane.

But like, like I don't think we're really putting that into context, what she's doing at the level she is.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to No Off Season.

I'm Zena Dada.

And today on the show, the playoff picture is still taking shape with plenty of movement left in the battle proceeding.

Who could move up, who could fall, and what match-ups might we see when the postseason tips off?

But first, I am so excited to welcome to the show my Ion teammate, if you watch us you know, she is ATL's finest- Autumn Johnson to the show.

Autumn, welcome.

What's up, Z?

This is a treat.

This is crazy.

I love this for us.

I do.

Two times in one week, I love it.

Look at us.

Look at us.

I'm so-- It's so true.

Like, y'all, you don't even know how excited I am every week.

For those of you that don't know, I live in California.

Uh-huh.

Every week for Ion WNBA Friday Night Showcase, I fly to Atlanta to be able to host alongside Autumn Johnson as well as Megan McEwen.

Uh-huh.

And I, it's a long flight.

It's a lot.

Yeah.

But it's so fun.

Like, we get together- Uh-huh we kiki, and it's a great time.

And as you guys don't know, Autumn is very similar to me in that she has a lot of jobs.

She's also the sideline reporter for the Atlanta Dream.

Yeah.

Yeah.

she hosts HoopStream on ESPN.

Like she's- Mm-hmm done a lot of stuff, and that's just in the W season.

You'll probably see her everywhere during the NCAA season as you can, if you're watching on YouTube, you'll see her background.

Yeah, she breaks it all down.

Uh-huh.

But let's talk about the Atlanta Dream because you have a close-up look- Okay at this team, and you've been looking at them all year.

And you've gotten to see the Angel Reese effect.

Oh, yes.

And we're talking right now it's Wednesday.

This is two nights after Angel Reese just got- Mm-hmm 26 rebounds- Yeah in one game, making WNBA history, breaking both the single game and single season rebounding records.

Autumn, let's start with Angel and thinking about what, when you look at what she's accomplished, what stands out- Mm-hmm to you about how she dominates the glass and how she keeps making this type of history?

Oh, man.

I mean, not to be dramatic, but we might be witnessing the best rebounder of all time in Angel Reese, and it's only year three, right?

I mean, she's so young in her career.

I don't think I've ever seen Angel take a game off when it comes to rebounding and defense, you name it.

She's in a league of her own, and that's dated back to not just college, her high school days.

Like, this is Angel Reese through and through.

She's mastered this craft.

It's her motor.

26 rebounds is insane, by the way.

Insane.

But like, like I don't think we're really putting that into context, what she's doing at the level she is.

Like, the anticipation, she knows exactly where the ball is coming off the glass.

Like, she has that mentality, anything that's going up, I'm getting it.

And I love that.

She creates positions early, she knows her angles, and that's creating more possessions for the Dream.

With this record, I saw a video of Pat Summitt talking- Mm-hmm and she said, "You should never have an off game when it comes to defense and rebounding," and that's Angel Reese- Mm-hmm every time.

It's- I love it it's so true.

It's so true.

Like, even on the nights that you're like, "Ooh, will she be..." You know, we know Angel Reese to also be a walking double double.

Yeah.

But even on the nights that she might be struggling offensively, you can count that she's- gonna be up there in the rebounding aspect.

So there is that level- Yep of consistency.

And you know, I, Pat Summitt has said that.

I remember earlier this season while covering the Warriors, Draymond Green talked about, like you should always, whatever you're good at, whatever you know you're good at, the second you- Right establish that once you enter the league, like that should never be a drop off.

Right.

And I thought that was such good advice for his younger players on his team, but also anyone that's playing sports is like once you establish a brand for yourself, and w- we're- Yeah talking about Angel, the queen of branding.

She has- Mm-hmm absolutely branded herself as an amazing rebounder.

And it, it, it's the consistency, the motor, the determination to be able to do that.

Yep.

It takes a lot.

Y'all, rebounding ain't fun.

Hello.

Remember elbows, getting pinched underneath the basket- get- having seats taken out from you- You have the dirty work- so you're off balance for sure.

Oh, yeah.

People get- Yes real dirty trying to get rebounds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But when you just mentioned like the fact that Angel's rebounding has created extra opportunities for the Dream- Mm-hmm and I do have to say real quick, last week, just last week, this is, this is why the WNBA's so fun, I was like, I don't know what's going on with the, with the Atlanta Dream.

I, I don't know- what, what direction they're headed in.

I'm not sure- We all had the questions what their identity is.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

And I know, you know, we don't wanna put too much on games against, you know, like the LA Sparks, for example, defensively.

Right.

But that game against the Aces- Ooh told me something.

And the fact that they've been consistent since that loss against Indiana- Uh-huh there's something that's also there.

And the rebounding from Angel obviously is huge, but what are you seeing overall with the way that the Dream have kind of turned a corner a little bit on the way- to the playoffs?

Yeah, I think the Dream needed that game where there was a moment when Rhyne Howard had the three, she missed it.

Angel Reese had the opportunity for a put back, she missed it.

Um- Mm-hmm even another opportunity, I think it was Naz diving in.

Yeah, Naz Howard.

Like, there's, there, there was a level of like- Let's wake up.

And you felt that energy shift.

This is completely different from back in June when the Dream on a- went on the road on the West Coast trip, four-game losing streak.

Now coming onto this- Right road trip, a long road trip, four-game winning streak.

So to me, it's finding different ways to win.

You mentioned the Aces game.

They had 15 steals in that game.

Versus the Sparks, they had 124 points.

It's finding different ways to win in different styles, and, this is a team that's harped on consistency all season long.

Carl Smesko has talked about it, Ryan Howard has talked about it, Angel Reese.

Everyone I talk to across the board has talked about consistency.

Like, "Cool, we did this, but can we do it again and again-" Mm-hmm and again and again?"

'Cause that's what championship teams do, and I think we're finding that now.

So for me, for the Dream, I wanna see if that continues.

Now coming back home, the remaining schedule doesn't get easy.

I believe they end on the road versus New York to close out- their season.

They play Minnesota- And that's another team that's turning the corner.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, I it's, it's the consistency piece now, but I think they needed a small wake-up call before we get into the playoff push.

Okay, I want to put that word consistency real quick to the side, but let's keep it in the- Mm-hmm back of our mind before- Okay we get to our next topic.

Just one quick question.

What is Carl Smesko like?

Oh, man.

That's such a great question.

A very loaded question.

Honestly, like, if like you know you know.

Like he's- Mm-hmm like super introverted, dry sense of humor, but like, those he's comfortable around, he's like super funny.

And- Okay I, I l- I love his relationship with the girls.

Like he, he's like the ultimate dad.

He's like supporting them with the Barbie shirts and the goggles, Alysha Clark's goggles.

He's calling Ryan Howard his ride or die- like a tie-in with her name.

Right.

You know, quiet on the creek.

All- Right all that.

Yes.

So I think like, again, he's so business first.

He's detail-oriented.

But he knows when to have fun.

He knows how to relate to his players.

It- it started in year one, like building that foundation with them, and now we're seeing it totally blossom in year two.

So there's so much love in this organization.

The huddles are very healthy.

I'm listening in as a sideline reporter.

And his players ride for him, and- Yeah he rides for them, so.

It ve- it very much gives that, and that's why I was curious what- your perspective was being up close and personal, is that like- Yeah he's like this kind of like nerdy kind of to himself dad, but when he's around- Yeah his girls, he's just like open and with it and will- willing to learn and not only just about the basketball aspect of it, but- Mm-hmm the social cultural elements of it as well.

Um- Mm-hmm so thank you for that.

I was very curious.

Okay.

Let's pick up consistency again.

I like this- Okay word because it p- is perfect for what I wanna talk about next.

We talked about Angel's accomplishment, 26 rebounds, and the consistency in her rebounding.

Um- Mm-hmm but that was just one of these things as we've been seeing happen across the W this season, which is record-breaking, history being made.

Right.

And all being tied to consistency.

So I wanna dive into some of these historic performances that we've seen recently.

Kelsey Mitchell.

Ah.

20-plus point scoring streak.

Yeah.

It's been wild seeing it.

Even the games where she's starting out, in the first half, it's like, she got seven points.

I don't know.

That streak might be in jeopardy.

We don't know if she's gonna be able to keep it up, and she's at- Turns it on 23 now?

23 straight games.

Like- Mm-hmm wild.

Absolutely wild.

When you look at that and you look at the consistency, you look at how long Kelsey's been in the league and- Mm-hmm her ability to keep producing at such a high level, like what stands out to you?

Her efficiency.

Kelsey Mitchell's efficiency has been off the charts.

She's having a 50, 45, 85 type of season.

That is rare territory that she's in, and she's having a career year.

Yes to numbers, but of course the efficiency.

Like usually, usually like when you're scoring that much, your volume of shots, gets kind of high.

That efficiency drops, and hers hasn't like all season long.

23 games straight too, so, to me, it's how the defenses can't- Yeah figure Kelsey Mitchell out.

She-- You know it's coming, but, no one can find a way.

You overplay her, she's going back door.

She's using- her step back to get to her threes.

She dances around defenders to get to the cup.

Like even the dif- the degree of difficulty on like how she finishes around the cup, like I, I, I haven't seen anyone contain Kelsey Mitchell.

Like you ask across the board, "Who is the toughest defensive assignment?"

They're saying Kelsey Mitchell every single time- Yeah because of her foot speed.

Her foot speed is something she's really honed into, like just poured into during the off-season doing football drills.

And something I found interesting after, it was on Prime, recently, Kelsey Mitchell shared how she doesn't waste steps.

She's very intentional.

Mm-hmm.

She is making sure that whatever she does, it's with intention.

So she's trying to avoid like unnecessary on-court actions, in a sense, and, and you're seeing that play out in full effect.

Oof, I love that.

I think that over, like if you ever go back and watch Capie Pondexer clips- of the footwork, the handle as well, like it's very similar.

But Capie was a little bit flashier with hers.

Yeah.

Kelsey is so much more contained and directed in the way that she is going.

She's not gonna dribble too, too much, but she's gonna dribble and get past you.

She's gonna dribble- Yeah to open space up.

It is fascinating.

Like, it, it's been fun for me watching at Indiana Fever games, there's a million type of people that are on the, the, the perimeter, you know, on the sideline- Right courtside.

And every time you'll see a lot of the NBA players come in- Mm-hmm and she'll score.

Like, you'll see them be like, "Yo, she's cold."

She's tough.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, they're so impressed with her handle, her layup package- Yeah her ability to get past some big folks.

And you talked about the consistency, and you've said the number one thing, the efficiency.

She leads the WNBA in three-point percentage, y'all.

Like, this is, this is not just being able to put points up.

It's n- it's not just about being able to score, it's efficient volume- Right and making shots, right?

Right.

Right.

10 of 19, that's a good number.

That was her numbers against Chicago on Sunday.

Like- Mm-hmm you don't want somebody putting up 35 shots to get 10.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

And so the fact that she gets- Correct 10 of 19 from the field, she's six of nine from beyond the arc, like that-- these sort of numbers are very-- They're different.

They're different.

Um- Correct and I'm curious what you think about is this enough to get credit and get into that MVP conversation solidly?

Yes, absolutely.

I believe Kelsey Mitchell is in the MVP conversation.

She is- I, I've seen- But I'm just saying, like, where, how do you feel about it?

I feel-- So she's in the top five for sure- Mm-hmm but I feel like she's in the conversation.

I think everyone respects the 2320, what she's done consistently.

But I, from what I've seen across the board, the buzz has been around A'ja Wilson and Olivia Miles.

So- Mm-hmm she's getting the credit, but how much?

Like, do you know what I mean?

Is she- Yeah being considered over A'ja and Olivia?

Because obviously A'ja Wilson's been super consistent.

She's the best player in the league, best player in the world.

And Olivia Miles, she's the best player on the best team currently, so- Right Kelsey Mitchell, to me, she's checking off all the boxes when it comes to her body of work.

She's got the consistency.

She's got the efficiency.

She is leading her team to success.

Yes, the Indiana Fever are floating from, you know, number four and five, but like she's not having an off night in 23 games.

No.

Right.

You know what I mean?

And this, and this team is putting up 100 points consistently- Exactly throughout the year.

Um- Exactly leading the league in terms of the amount of 100-point games.

And you make a great point, like the division of credit, I think, is one of the reasons why Kelsey Mitchell is so successful is because Kelsey Mitchell is Kelsey Mitchell, and she works so hard at it, but she's also in a really great backcourt duo that sets her up, right, with Caitlin Clark.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that element of what Caitlin Clark is doing in terms of her scoring and her play-making is kind of making it like there's only one piece of the pie to go around when it comes to Indiana.

Right.

And it's like- Right well, this kind of splits evenly- Mm-hmm between you two for some people's minds.

I still think that Kelsey Mitchell is on a different level.

When the, when the Fever need a bucket, you can count on Kelsey Mitchell to do it.

You go to Kelsey Mitchell.

Correct.

Yes.

Correct.

And so A'ja Wilson, you could say Jackie Young might be someone that is pulling a little bit of, the, the best player, you know, on this team attention away from her because Jackie Young also puts up ridiculous numbers, but she's not doing it consistently like Caitlin is- Yeah beside A'ja Wilson, right?

Yeah.

And A'ja Wilson is playing both sides of the ball in a way that Olivia Miles and- Mm-hmm Kelsey Mitchell aren't.

Kelsey Mitchell.

Right?

Correct.

So I think that also is why I still have A'ja Wilson in my, as my top in the MVP voting.

But you know, voters, they get, they get fatigued sometimes.

Yes.

We'll see what happens, but I think Kelsey is, I mean, phenomenal on that consistency and that efficiency front.

Now let's talk about efficiency- Mm-hmm for this next piece of history.

Kelsey, I mean Kayla McBride.

Kelsey's leading- Ooh the league in threes, but there's been one person that made a record, amount of threes in a game, and that's Kayla McBride.

She had that- Mm-hmm single game record, 10 three-pointers.

Insane.

43 points in that game.

What stands out to you about Kayla's ability to get that hot from the arc, behind the arc, but also, like, how she puts the ball up?

Yeah.

I love how you just took a breath there because wow.

Um- Yeah 10 threes too.

Like, so casually.

No, I was just in awe of like the pureness of her shot.

Like, what?

Um- She's just, I- I'm like, I was lost for w-words, truly, and again, here I am today, lost for words.

But no, like, it's her quick release.

It's her ability to just get into her spots.

Like, she literally needs no space.

Mm-hmm.

She's flying off of screens, pin downs, flares.

She, like constant movement.

It's not just catch and shoot.

She is working for it.

Or like her teammates, they have so much attention, she's ready to step into the shot and knock it down.

So I, I think with Kayla McBride, like she's known to be this three-point shooter, but in year 13, like honestly what's been great is her evolution of get into the cup.

Like you chase- her off the line now she's getting to, she's getting to, in inside- Yeah at all costs.

So defensively too, she's turning around and guarding the best player- Huge on the opposing team.

So she's becoming a complete player in year 13.

The gravity overall of what Kayla McBride brings also opens up her teammates like an Olivia Miles, a, a Courtney Williams, an Napheesa Collier, a Natasha Howard.

A lot of scoring weapons, but like Kayla is the last person you wanna leave open.

She's gonna punish you every single time when you're in- Mm-hmm late rotations.

Getting like any lo-late closeout, it's over.

So I, I love the fact that it's not just the threes.

Like now on the scouting report, you gotta plan for everything, and I think that's- Yeah making her even more difficult because then, like you kind of have to pick your poison in how to defend her in her game.

I love this.

And j- something that's similar to Kelsey Mitchell that Kayla McBride has is like her backdoor cut game- Mm-hmm supreme.

Like she is- Uh-huh so good at setting up her defenders, make 'em fall asleep, and then getting back to the basket.

But you're absolutely right, it's the variety with which she scores.

Being able to shot- shoot threes off the curl, being able to shoot off the flare, being able to shoot in transition, being able to create off the drive, being able to get to the basket, like in tight spaces.

She- She's like, yeah.

Yeah, I got it.

I got it.

You check, check, check, check, check.

And then turning around and having to guard Sony Citron or having to guard Jackie Young.

Right.

Or having to I mean, like the, the- Right the top scorer for the other side of the ball.

Now, I remember last year when they brought Dijonai Carrington in, it was like, oh, thank goodness for Kayla, right?

Like she can- finally just focus on being an offensive player as f- Right as opposed to being a main defensive player.

And now obviously Dijonai Carrington's in Chicago and Kayla McBride's right back to it, having to do a little bit of both.

Mm-hmm.

Especially as Olivia Miles still gets her defensive, you know, training wheels going.

Yeah 'Cause she's got a lot of things to learn s- too as a rookie.

But let's actually use that to transition to more records being broken.

Mm-hmm and more than just scoring and shooting.

Olivia Miles has also made her mark this season, setting the all-time WNBA rookie assist record.

Uh-huh.

And she's been doing it with a flash.

Uh-huh.

Like what- Ooh what would you say- I like that you like so much about Olivia's game and the way that she sets up her teammates?

Oh, I can go on and on.

First just how she gets it done.

Like she has this unwavering confidence and swag about herself.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that just fuels her game overall.

Like her passes are so unreal.

They're on time, they're on target.

She's threading the needle.

You know, she's, she's a big guard, so- Right her vision, her IQ, she's not even looking at her defender in front of her.

Like she's watching what's unfolding within the offense, and she sees it unfold before it even happens.

I think that's what's able to put her teammates in great positions.

And I'm like, of course, there's this video right now of Olivia Miles, like her soccer highlights.

I'm like, "Of course you played soccer- Oh yeah, right and you're elite at it."

Like literally the best basketball players, Super, Diana Taurasi, they're all soccer players.

You have that IQ, you have that vision, you have that footwork.

Mm-hmm.

But for me, it's, it's the vision and IQ for the most part.

Like sh- it's very Chelsea Gray-esque of how she's seeing these things unfold and how she's delivering the passes.

The dimes are crazy, but I- I think- Yeah I, I really attribute, I can't say it enough, her time at TCU just going back another year, playing in a pro-ready system around like tons of 6'4" g- post players, like the ability to have that pick and roll action and, and see it and feel it constantly for a entire season.

Like she, she was super comfortable and she looks comfortable still now in just her first year.

Yeah.

No, it's, it's amazing for her to be able to be that confident at, at so young.

And- Mm-hmm what I like is the fact that it feels like it's a priority for her.

Um- Yeah she really wants to set up her teammates.

Like she gets excited about that.

What- Yeah.

Right.

She likes to get to the basket too, and she's got a crazy layup package for sure.

But- Mm-hmm it looks like she is having, like she likes the chess and checkers of figuring out, how can I get this set up for my teammate- in a way that you will not see it?

Right.

It's kinda crazy to look at some of the numbers that she's, you know, putting up in a single season.

Six assists, over six assists.

She has almost a two assist-to-turnover ratio, which is good, right?

Mm-hmm.

You, you, when you think about having the ball in your hands that much, that young, and this is with a season that's been majority without Napheesa Collier.

Like it's- Mm-hmm pretty impressive for her to have a ratio of two, in her assist-to-turnover ratio.

And then you look at who she's on par with.

Like this is Teisha Penicheiro numbers.

These are Courtney Vandersloot, um- Yeah type of numbers as they were coming up and it's-- She's not yet in the all-time elite tier in terms of her numbers, but she's a rookie doing this.

Mm-hmm.

Which is unreal, right?

We're comparing- Yeah her to the greats of the greats of, in their seasons that they've had.

Right.

So I'm really excited to see how it continues to play out, especially as she gets more and more comfortable with Napheesa Collier, her newest toy- Yeah that she's gotten access to.

Yeah.

So- Generational It's, yeah- Seriously it's generational.

Absolutely.

We're seeing something special.

Thinking about all the records that have been broken this season, Autumn- Mm-hmm what do you think this record-breaking year is telling us about the way that the league is evolving and continues to evolve in year 30?

Yeah.

No, I was sitting here thinking about that and of course, like the obvious answer is like the talent, of course.

We have the best in the world, and expansion, adding more teams, more opportunity, role players getting into star positions, like, you know, being counted on.

The style of play too, like there's more threes than ever.

I was like going- through all the stats and in 2016 there were only 16 three attempts in that year alone, and from like an average across the league, and now teams are averaging 23 attempts.

Yeah.

Or excuse me, 25 attempts.

Let me not shortchange nobody.

Right.

25 attempts per game.

That's wild.

So that's nine more threes in this past decade that we're seeing across the board.

But truly it goes back to the officiating and what we're seeing, the emphasis this year has been freedom of movement and- I think that's come into play this season.

Like you are seeing defenders, the best defenders having to adjust, and that's helped create kind of like more offensive opportunities.

There's also a tighter whistle, so there's more opportunities to get to the free throw line.

You're seeing- It in the numbers too.

Like, I, I was looking through everything.

There's five teams right now this season who's averaging 90 or more points.

Wow.

And if you look at previous years, even last year's, it, the numbers don't reflect that.

So this is the year that we're seeing these, of course, the all these tons of 100-point games.

And that's because of the freedo- I go back to, yes, style play, the talent and expansion teams- Mm-hmm but the officiating has created this whole different dynamic that we're seeing of the product.

We're, we're seeing more offense than ever.

Yeah.

Oh, that's such a good call-out.

Like, and it's also these players are coming in from collegiate systems that- Mm-hmm are seeing more offense than ever.

I mean, you covered the NCAA closely, especially throughout the tournament, and it feels like we're s- the guard play- Yeah coming outta college has been elite.

This year was stacked.

I would say the last few years really.

It's only getting better too.

It's only getting better.

Oh my gosh.

Right.

These last two years- Like, I can't believe it have just been an influx.

Yes.

And then y- I love the call-out for the threes because I think what we've seen over the last few years is more players practicing threes.

Mm-hmm.

We're seeing the Li Yurus of the world- Mm-hmm practicing their threes.

Mm-hmm.

And we always, you know, we knew Steph Dolson was shooting threes at UConn- Facts but she was an anomaly.

She was a u- like, kind of a unicorn in that way.

Mm-hmm.

Like, we, we always thought about bigs in the way that we think about Camilla Cardoso.

Like, she got that one three bank shot against Tennessee in their- Oh my gosh.

In their conference final.

And we're like, "Wow!"

Like, you know?

Like, that's how we typically thought about bigs.

And then you have A'ja Wilson- Yes same school, comes out elite footwork, elite from the free throw line in, and then what does she do in this season?

Add a three ball.

Not big down.

Right.

Aaliyah Boston too.

Aaliyah Boston, same thing.

Right, and so- The fours and fives, the positionless play- Correct has been in effect, for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, stick around, guys.

On the other side of this break, Autumn is just getting started, okay?

We're gonna take a closer look at the postseason picture, and I wanna dig a little bit even more into the Dream and their success as they head into the playoffs.

Okay, before we get into the playoff picture, I wanna take our listeners behind the scenes at ION really quickly.

As I mentioned before, A- Autumn and I are both part of ION's Friday night pre-game and post-game coverage.

Autumn, you're the only one out of, like, our crew- that lives in Atlanta.

So- I knew you were gonna say that Yeah, like you're actually there- I knew where this was going which is nice.

I'm here, a drive away.

Yes, and you're our personal chauffeur to the studio from the hotel.

Thank you.

Of course, my girl.

But give us, give us an idea, like, what happens behind the scenes that viewers may not realize goes into us getting ready to go on air?

Yeah, I mean, it starts Monday.

Like- Mm-hmm and it doesn't stop.

Like, we are in constant communication.

We have our Monday meetings with Jay, our producer, and from there we're still texting, we're sending each other breaking news- Mm-hmm our hot topics, our injury reports.

And you have to be able to adjust on the fly too because just because we did all of this pranni- planning and prep and watching film, like, we come in and it's like, uh- Did you see last night's game?

We see a lot change.

Yeah.

We see, we seen, we see a lot change in real time, so you have to adjust on the fly.

Yeah.

But I think what makes it so beautiful is, like, we all have different perspectives of the game.

We all bring something different and our preparation's different, but we come in and we bring our energy, our chemistry, our love for the game, our passion for the game, and it blends together so beautifully.

Like you said at the top- Yeah it's so much fun on Fridays.

And what people don't see is, like, Zina's, like, singing and dancing.

We have to stay all vibes.

Like, all the vibes.

All the vibes.

You know, we gotta keep the energy up because it's a, it's a long night.

It is so fun.

It's a long night.

It is.

Like, we start, our, our show tips off at 7:00, 6:30.

7:00.

What am I doing?

7:00.

C- tips off at six, at 7:00, and we typically have two slots.

In that slot, it could be one game, it could be two games.

Mm-hmm.

But we have to, if we have two games, we have to make sure we have our halftime for that second game that's not national.

We gotta record that.

We gotta make sure that we got our interview questions ready for the player that we're gonna get for the pregame show.

Mm-hmm.

And as, you know, as Autumn mentioned, Thursday nights happen, right?

Amazon has the Thursday night games.

Oh my goodness.

That's such a good point.

And those are late, so by the time I now am on the East Coast, I'm getting off a plane.

I'm, I'm getting to the hotel, and games haven't even started yet, which is so weird- Girl for me in the, on the West Coast.

But- games are going until, like, midnight it feels like.

Exactly.

11:00 PM.

It's crazy.

Um- Love that for you ugh.

Us East Coasters be dying over here.

Y'all be dying.

I'm like- I don't know how you do it oh my God.

I have so much respect for East Coast sports fans.

It's not for the weak.

It-- Yeah, it's not for the weak at all.

And I'm the weak.

So we're- Sleepy.

We're- Very sleepy girl.

You, you do a great job though, because a lot of times it is you- Thank you that's like, "Hey, did you see that?"

Like this, you know, whatever the around the W is, 'cause, like, we wanna make sure that we try to stay current with everything.

Mm-hmm.

Even though we meet on Monday, we don't wanna let the whole week go by and not update- Facts what the heck we're talking about by the time we talk on Friday.

Right.

But yeah, we go, we get our hair and makeup done, by our wonderful artists- At 3:00 Caleb and Erica, and we have to make sure we're on set, get all-- W- we have, we have like little bit of cords, just like a mic and our thing that speaks to- on our ear, our IFB, so our producer can talk to us.

But yeah- Mm-hmm and then we get going, and we are there from-- We get there at 3:00.

We leave at 11:00.

Yeah, 11:30-ish.

So proper 8:00 AM or 8:00- hour day, and then we have our production call earlier that day as well.

Um- And then you leave at 6:00 AM the next day, right?

6:00 AM the next day.

Technically, 4:00 AM 'cause you gotta get to the airport.

Right.

Yeah, and that's if my flight is on time.

Sometimes it's- like, yeah.

My girl.

It's been like 7, it's been 8, so it's been suspect.

But alas, um- Alas it's, it's a thing.

It's a thing.

And what I love most is that we've, w- we, as you mentioned, we all have different perspectives and- Mm-hmm we have different roles outside of this.

So- Yeah I, I mentioned some of Autumn's roles.

You guys know some of my roles here at The Athletic, but then also covering the Valkyries, locally.

And Megan McEwen covers Connecticut locally and also works- as a contributor for ESPN on their women's basketball coverage.

So we all have these per- different perspectives and, and insight that we have, and from different parts of the league as well, right?

In different s- areas, we're paying attention to different things, different storylines.

Right.

And for you, Autumn, you're looking at The Dream.

And they're- Mm-hmm right in the mix, near the top of the standings.

And it feels like right now they're putting everything together right as we head towards the postseason.

So can you first set up that little slump that- I feel like we all saw Atlanta go through?

What do you think was responsible for that, and what's turned the corner for them?

Ooh.

I mean, it goes back to consistency.

Like, you would see it for one game where all players are clicking on one cylinder, and then we would have offensive lapses.

Mm-hmm.

Defense has been, like, the common denominator of their success all season long.

Like, you don't have to worry about that.

That's why Rhyne Howard, Jordan Canada, Angel Reese, they're all sitting in that top three in steals.

Like, this is one of the best defensive teams.

They, get a lot of their transition opportunities from getting stops and steal, like steal and score opportunities.

That's never been the issue.

It's the, the offensive lapses that The Dream have ran into.

And specifically, I would say Rhyne Howard, like we've talked openly about this, like h- her having a rough stretch, and going through a shooting slump.

Mm-hmm.

I think the turn, the corner that we're seeing is Rhyne Howard.

She's been playing lights out in the month of August, and it's all clicking together.

We're seeing, Rhyne Howard, Alicia Gray, and Angel Reese, the big three of this team in a sense, like come together at the same time.

Mm-hmm.

So it's matched up with that defense.

Your best players, your star players are like working alongside of each other, where they're feeding off of each other.

They- they're coming alive on offense.

Alicia Gray has been the, a consistent offensive weapon.

And unlocking Angel Reese in these past four games, as we mentioned, that Fever game, that disappointing game, she's had a flawless game versus the Sparks.

She's had a career high in 31 points.

She's broken another record with 26 rebounds.

That together, alongside of the unsung heroes in Jordan Canada, who makes this team go with the pace, how she controls it- Yes and Naz Hillmon, how she's the glue to it all, I think we're just seeing it all come together.

So, for me, it was just, one, adding the offense consistently to the defense.

It really has shown that there's like a confidence that's come in the last few games, offensively especially.

How has Carl Smesco directed them, from what you've seen, directed them out of that slump and like built trust with this group?

Especially because we know when teams that are loaded- Mm-hmm don't perform to expectation, the first thing people do is look at the coach.

Yeah.

Like, "What are you doing?

You got all these tools.

Why are they not working?"

Yeah.

What have you seen Carl Smesco do in the midst of this to ensure that it's like, "I know what I'm doing.

It just take, it just takes time."

Um- Mm-hmm what have you seen?

Yeah, I've actually talked to him about this.

And he was very open about, like he's coached the best shooters, not like in the, in the, in the nation when it comes to FGCU and now here with The Dream, how navigating like the professional space i- in his second year.

And he's, he's just talked about, what stays true to him is just showing them the probability of flipping a coin.

Like you're not always going to get heads, but sometimes you might get tails.

But you keep- flipping and it's going to land on heads eventually.

Basically saying, shooters gotta shoot.

Like- Yeah at the end of the day, like if you- you're gonna keep shooting, one of them's gonna go in.

Like you just need to see one go.

The probability, like you can't get on heads if you don't keep flipping.

So he broke it down in that way and he kinda shows like this kind of technique in a sense and, a- and he's held that with them throughout his journey.

And, and alongside of that, he's pouring confidence in his players.

Like he's not saying like, "All right, like let's go a different direction."

No, he's putting the ball back in Rhyne Howard's hands in a timely situation or- Mm-hmm like anything that can de- decide a game because he has confidence that she can make those shots.

So it, it's, it's pouring love and belief in them to understand like, "This is what you're here to do."

He's told me like, "These are the best players in the world.

They're here for a reason.

They got here for a reason, so they should understand that.

And I make sure that I let them know that every single day, especially if they're going through a slump.

And we don't make it a big deal."

if, if he, he, he knew.

He was very aware that Rhyne Howard was having a slump, but he didn't make it this big thing because it wasn't a big thing to him.

Yeah.

That, that sounds a lot like a lot of these coaches that have these special relationships with their players.

They're very protective over them, but also- Mm-hmm you know, pr- protective but also so encouraging of them.

Uh- Mm-hmm I see it a lot here in the Bay with, Natalie Nakase.

Like she wouldn't even let us call Kate Martin's shooting last year a slump.

She's just like- Yeah nope, we ain't s- nope, nope, no, nope.

I love that though.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

And that's, and that's how you gotta be.

Okay, let's- Don't breathe life into it.

Yeah.

Right.

Exactly.

And, and let it, gotta have the memory of a goldfish if you watch Ted La- Lasso, so- All right, let's keep it going, and take a zoom out really quickly.

Before I let you get outta here, you- we gotta talk about the whole playoff picture.

Oh.

And I want to basically just look at right now, if we're looking at all the, the actual updated, standings and where things land, if the playoffs started today, Minnesota would be playing Dallas in the first round.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Golden State would be playing Washington.

Atlanta- Yeah would be playing the Fever.

Mm-hmm.

And Las Vegas would be playing New York.

Ooh.

Now, starting with Minnesota, we can go one through eight.

Okay.

Give me one thing that Minnesota still needs to figure out before the playoffs start.

If you have one.

I- the thing is, I don't think that it's, like, a tangible thing.

Like, I think they're checking off all the boxes, truly.

For Minnesota, I think it's an overall theme for them, like, can they finish the job?

Like, they've been the number one team.

They've proven they're the best of the best.

They have all the pieces.

Franchise point guard, MVP caliber, center piece in Napheesa Collier.

They got the shooting.

They got the veteran exper- they got everything.

Like, the rich- Right has gotten richer.

They're good.

Right.

But they haven't won a title in nine years.

We've seen Minnesota get to the mountaintop, and then just, not crumble, because I would say last year was very unfortunate.

Mm-hmm.

But can you get it done?

Cheryl Reeve has had the best of the best, teams, and now, like, what can she do with this one?

I think Minnesota has everything to prove because they've, they, they have everything required to win it- Right the entire season.

They have everything they had last year, then Oh, well, not everything, 'cause Jess Shepard and Elena Smith are gone, yes.

Mm-hmm.

But they have Napheesa, they have Courtney, they have Kayla, and they added Olivia.

They got- It- it's like, yeah.

How, how can you figure this out?

I think the, the Valkyries game against Minnesota, I'm not too concerned.

They weren't making shots the way they typically do, but the pressure, the defense, you know, provided from the Valkyries was a little bit, like, you're a little concerned about how Olivia Miles was passing amidst that pressure and how she was handling the ball amidst that pressure.

And I say a little bit, I mean, like, the teensiest of bits of concern.

Yeah.

Because she had- Yeah she has had a great game against them, but now she's had- Mm-hmm two games against them that haven't been as good.

But the fact that you- Mm-hmm get 17 steals off of that Minnesota matchup with Golden State, that, that might be the one that you're like, "What are we doing against zones?"

yeah.

People might throw zone at us- Uh-huh during the playoffs.

That might be a concern.

Okay.

But for the most part, Minnesota is looking real, real good.

They got champagne problems over there going into- the, the playoffs.

All right, Golden State, I feel like this one's pretty easy.

Mm-hmm.

I'll start.

Mm-hmm.

They need- Offense a creator.

They need offense.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They need a go-to knockdown shooter.

Yeah.

You with me on this one?

No, 1000%.

Yeah.

Like, can offense meet the defense?

That's been my question all season.

Like, versus the Lynx, to your point, we saw how, the Valkyries were able to have lockdown defense, but they had a balance attack over- overall- Mm-hmm to help in timely situations.

So the defense is real, like, it's no question they're legitimate on that end.

But when it comes to not just winning a game versus the top team, but a series, the, the playoffs becomes just that.

Like, can you do it consistently?

And who's gonna be that go-to scorer?

This is the number one team when it comes to bench production, so maybe it'll come from there.

Maybe, maybe we're wrong, and it's like you don't need a go-to scorer.

You can- Right get it done with a balance attack if you can stop the other team from scoring.

So I, I just, I just have that question, like, can Golden State generate enough offense- Yeah in three games in a row, in five games in a row, seven games in a row to become a championship team?

Yeah.

And I'm particularly curious about that, what that's gonna look like after the FIBA World Cup, knowing that they're gonna lose some players, their scorers, Janel Salaun, Chechy Zelezniak, and Gabby Williams- Mm-hmm to the FIBA World Cup as well, like, in terms of, representation, and that's, that's exertion right before the playoffs.

Yeah.

Like, that's wh- I'm very curious as to what that's gonna look like.

1000%.

Okay, that's Golden State.

Let's go to number three, Las Vegas.

Well, I'll-- to wrap up Golden State as well, I wanna know what their playoff lineup looks like- Yeah 'cause as you mentioned, it's incredibly distributed right now.

But in a way, and I say that to say to get to number three in Las Vegas, Las Vegas knows who they are.

Yeah.

Right?

They know who they are, but I am curious about the bench opportunities or options for Las Vegas.

Is Maya- Right Moto gonna be enough?

Is Jewel Lloyd gonna be enough?

And, we don't know with Napheesa Smith, but that's my biggest- Yeah question mark.

Like, how does the Aces fill it if it, if that is the question that needs to be answered?

I hope Napheesa is healthy, she's well.

Mm-hmm.

But we don't wanna, we don't wanna, like, over-speculate things.

But I wanna know what that looks like for the Aces.

Like, do you go small with A'ja Wilson?

Mm-hmm.

Do you put Moto or Jewel Lloyd or, like, your guard, your four guards running with A'ja Wilson, or do you lean into Cheyenne Parker-Tyus and Brianna Turner?

Right.

And she's had some- I mean- highlights throughout this season- Yeah Cheyenne Parker-Tyus has, getting on the glass.

Yeah.

S- second opportunities or second-chance opportunities.

Um- And she's a veteran- But- but it's different NaLyssa Smith brings something totally different.

Like that- Yeah was the piece last year that got them - That, exactly.

Like a b- Turn everything around- Yeah, yeah and brought them to the championship stage and won it all.

Like, I think NaLyssa's been having-- Like, she had a great season last year, but I think she's having, been having a most improved type of season again this year with her efficiency, how she's created space for A'ja Wilson.

It's different.

It's a big loss- Yeah if she is out for the remainder of the season.

Agreed.

We still are waiting for the updates on that.

Okay, let's keep it going to number four, Atlanta.

What's one thing that Atlanta needs to kick the tires on before they take the car out for the ride of the playoffs?

I'm gonna say it again, like can the Dream do it consistently?

Can they win consistently?

Can they bring their defense, check, but can they bring their offense consistently?

When you're having a bad night, like who do you go to?

I, I think the bench production is my main concern.

You know, who comes off the bench and is that spark, consistently in a series?

Yeah.

There's no question about the talent that this team has.

It's always been about the consistency end of things, so like they've dealt with the offensive lapses and stretches, being stagnant, the ball sticking, but they just- Yeah had a phenomenal turnaround in this 4-0 West Coast trip.

Like, how do you go from that?

What do you take from that?

And it can't just be talent to win a playoff game.

Now it's like the maturity is what I'm trying to say.

Like- Right a m- the maturity enough to win a playoff series and get out of the first round, 'cause that's something the Dream hasn't done in a while is get to the second round and, and that's not something they're, they're gonna settle for.

It, Angel Reese is talking championship, Alicia Gray, championship.

This whole team is buying into a championship, but you have to get out of the first round first.

Yeah.

I'm with you on, the, the consistency.

I'm definitely with you on the bench.

I have a huge question- Mm-hmm about Atlanta's bench, over the course of a series, with Brianna Jones not available.

Is, what is the update on that?

We haven't gotten an update yet.

Okay.

So we're- Yeah still waiting.

Okay.

Well, without Brianna Jones, the second front court line, like what that looks like is very interesting.

The three-point shooting is very interesting to me as well.

Like the, they, they do have four wins in a row, but their last two games in terms of three-point shooting, versus LA and, and Phoenix, not that great, you know?

Yeah.

And they do need to be able to spread the floor to allow for Angel Reese- to have the space to operate inside.

Yeah, that's gonna be my question for, for Atlanta.

Now- Mm-hmm I do wanna ask you, what is it about this Fever Indiana?

Oh.

Like, 'cause everybody, I'ma tell you right now, I've seen a million people say, "If the playoffs started right now, give me that Fever Dream."

Give me that Fever Dream.

I don't care about anything else.

I just need that Fever Dream.

What is it about this matchup?

Oh my goodness.

There, I, there's so much.

You look at what happened last year.

Like I- I was a full fan.

I'm not gonna lie.

I wasn't working, so my Atlanta Dream hat was on, okay?

I was, Zina, I was on a chair.

Like- Wow the last literally- I love it it was insane.

Like we were at home, it was packed, and we-- Oh my gosh, it was like just crumbled all in front of us.

Like the Dream were up and there- were lapses defensively, like a, a turnover.

I'm like, wow, it- Yeah it's something about Atlanta sports too, like the hurt that we feel.

So like we're not trying to go through that again, but just I think there was a sour taste after all that happened.

I saw every, literally every player's reaction.

Yeah.

Like just families embrace, you know, their loved ones, crying, just like a first-round exit.

This is a team that revamped with- Right front court play- like everything was in front of us to move ahead, so I was like- Mm-hmm dang.

I just remember being on that chair hurt 'cause I couldn't see.

There were so many people standing.

Yeah.

You know, tall girl problems.

I had to get on my chair.

Y'all, uh- Aura also thinks she's tall, and that's probably one of the- I am fun- it's, yeah, girl.

Girl.

I- Every time I mention like, "Oh yeah, I got like these tall sweatpants from Gap," or whatever- she's like, "Yeah, you know, I, me too," like I, I struggle- And do to find.

I'm like, please, solidly like- I'm helping Zina 5 6, 5, 5 something.

Anyways- I'm five Look, we don't gotta- Hold on talk about it.

Just know I'm five something.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, there it is.

Okay.

Um- Okay but I had to get on my chair 'cause like there were other tall people in front of me, and it was just how it went down was crazy.

Wow.

So I think there's a sour ta- taste in everyone's mouth, and that get back, I think that's why.

Well- That's why we're here I, I do know that everyone typically just likes to say, "Oh, Angel, Caitlin."

Well, Caitlin wasn't playing last year, so there's that.

But there is- Yeah, no, I, I wasn't even thinking that.

Yeah, no, like a, and that's what I'm happy you mentioned that from that regard.

Uh-huh.

Okay, we gotta wrap this up real quick because I know you do have to get out of here.

So let's jump to tapping- We're good on the Fever.

Mm-hmm.

I think defensively that's, that's the main thing, and then also- 1000% their clutch situations.

Who has the ball?

Mm-hmm.

What does Caitlin do?

Mm-hmm.

Is it going to be, you know, in a q- in a crunch time situation, like is she gonna make the right decision?

Um- they haven't found themselves in a ton of those type of situations winning.

They've been like blowing thing, teams out or not winning in clutch situations.

And so I think- Mm-hmm that's what they have to really figure out before the playoffs.

I agree.

I agree.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

And it's been the defense too.

Like- Yeah Yeah, Fever are historically have an explosive offensive year, but obviously that can shift a game and erase a deficit.

They can score in bunches to get back in games, but it hasn't been consistent on the defensive end, so that would be my question moving forward.

Yeah.

It's-- They're like the opposite of the Valkyries.

The Valkyries are like- Yeah if you can't score-- If we can't score, you can't score.

And then- It's like Portland and are like, "Oh, you're scoring?

We'll just score more."

Mm-hmm.

There it is.

Exactly.

Exactly.

All right, New York, I-- they just got Fiebich back.

Now they look good.

That's what I'm saying.

They look scary.

They- They could be sneaky I, I like what I'm seeing out of New York.

Mm-hmm.

I really think they just need more time with this team.

They have struggled with injuries all year.

Correct.

They have had no consistency in their roster, or it feels like, not only because of injury, but also because of Chris DeMarco figuring out what he wants to do.

Correct.

How he wants to play this team.

Does he want Pauline Asti coming off the bench?

Does he want her starting?

Marine Johannes, like Marine Johannes was starting the beginning of the year, right?

Like- Mm-hmm there's been a lot of movement back and forth of players, but also the injuries, and we, we never got to see the Satou Sabally edition come to fruition.

So now- No I feel like this is the new start for- Mm-hmm New York.

Yeah, they look good.

10 and three in the last 13 games.

You just mentioned Leoni's back.

The squad is healthy.

That's been the biggest thing, like having continuity is so important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Having some type of cohesive balance with just regularly knowing who's on the court with you.

Mm-hmm.

We haven't seen a, this full squad and full strength the entire season, and I think that plays a huge role into what we've seen overall the product that they put out on the floor.

Like, yes, they have all the talent in the world, but it just helps when you have a routine and a r- rhythm amongst your teammates on the court together.

1000.

So they got a tough remaining schedule.

They got Valkyries, they got Chicago Sky, they got Minnesota, Toronto, and then Atlanta twice at home.

So, uh- they gotta grind it out, but, you know, if they can just stick together, they can do it.

I'll tell you right now, if N- if New York has a winning record for the remaining schedule, oh, don't wanna face them.

Things are shifting.

Don't wanna face them.

Look- That is scary they could be very sneaky.

They're gonna jump up.

Like, it's so tight.

Two through five- Championship team two years ago with the same team.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Same team, y'all.

Same team.

Yeah.

Okay.

We're almost there.

They could be a dark horse.

Mi- Which is weird to say the Washington Mystics.

It's, it's the three ball for me.

Um- 1000% and veteran decision-making as well.

Mm-hmm.

They- We're on the same page.

What'd you say?

Same page?

Same page.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, there's not enough shooting outside in a, in a series perspective, and I-- we've seen Sony still be Sony, don't get me wrong.

Mm-hmm.

But I wanna s- I wanna keep seeing Cody McMann- taking a step forward as a ma- a major scorer for this team, and a major go-to scorer 'cause that's what they're gonna need in the playoffs.

Um- Yeah and I wanna see Georgia Amoa shot more consistently.

You know, whether she's h- in those like pitch actions with Shakira Austin or, being someone-- She's not typically the person that comes off their double drag, but just being able to be a release valve for them- Mm-hmm is huge.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, they just don't have enough three-point shooting right now, so I think that's the one thing that they gotta figure out.

You don't develop that over the next few games, but you do figure out a way to- Yeah fight against it.

What else are you seeing in Washington?

Yeah.

The pa-- No, that's exactly what it is.

Like, the paint is on lock with Shakira Austin.

They got Kiki Irafen and then Lauren Betts coming in.

Mm-hmm.

Even their guards attacking and getting inside, but it's been the three ball.

And I forgot the number.

It was like around 45, maybe 48%, what the Mystics are shooting when it comes to top five teams.

But when they are knocking off these top five teams, the three ball matches.

So if they can bring that consistently, if the guards can step into those shots and open the paint, that's the difference maker for the Mystics to win in a series.

Yeah.

Yeah, agreed.

Okay.

Last but not least, the Dallas Wings.

Ah, this is tough.

Oh.

They've been in a lot of close games- Yeah this season.

Yeah.

They have.

Um- Y- You know what?

What are your thoughts?

I'm thinking X factors.

Like, like we know Paige is gonna be Paige.

Arike is playing the best ball right now we've seen, alongside of Paige has been phenomenal.

But X Factor is like, and Jess Shepard as well, obviously.

Yeah.

But Allana Smith, like th- this is what y'all came here to do.

You know what I mean?

So what does that look like in a playoff series?

You have that experience.

Mm-hmm.

Paige Bueckers has been waiting for this experience.

She's been on the biggest stages, but when it comes to the WNBA, you know, a lot of these players actually haven't been in these moments, now that I think about it.

So Jess Shepard and Allana Smith, you, you came here to do just that.

I'm looking at the front court.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good point.

When you think about X factors, I mean, for me, Allana Smith has been-- I mean, she's been-- In the last 10 games, she shot 10 from 30, 10 of 30 from three.

And, but they've been timely threes, and they're not- Mm-hmm it's not a huge number, but that is important- Mm-hmm to be able to add her in from a three-point perspective.

But the question for Dallas has been in a clutch, in a crunch time s- situation, and it doesn't have to be in clutch minutes, but you're just from behind, who are you going to, um- besides just Paige?

Paige, yeah.

And if all the attention is on Paige, if, if she's being played like the way that Indiana has blitzed, blitzed her and, and New York has blitzed her, and the Valkyries have bl- blitzed her, so many people have like made it very tough for her to beat them, and they've been like, "Everybody else beat us."

Mm-hmm what does Dallas look like when you're essentially going up against a box and one defense where Paige is trying to be removed?

She will not be removed.

She will get to her spots.

She will put- Mm-hmm points up, she will score.

Mm-hmm.

But Paige is trying to be removed.

What does the rest of the squad look like?

So I like the fact that Elena Smith is coming in and dropping threes, 'cause earlier this season it was not, it was not looking like that.

And- Yeah it's very similar to like, you know, in Washington they got Michaela Onyenwere that can hit- Yeah your, your, your corner three.

But it's like, who else?

If the paint's on lock, if that's-- Like, who else?

If, if Sony's not getting to her mid-range, who else?

And Washington has a lit- D- Dallas, excuse me, has a little bit of that as well.

And Jessica and Elena, I think you're right, are- Mm-hmm are major factors in that.

And Arike.

Consistency with Arike.

I was- She hasn't had the great- Yeah greatest month, but you know, being able to pick that up as well.

But one thing about Arike is she has that clutch gene in her.

Like, I even go back to the Unrivaled- Yes Championship game in the corner- Back where she hits a three.

Yes.

I was like, oh, I just Like literally you just get e- everything in your mind about March Madness, like her name- is synonymous with March Madness because she, she hit two clutch buckets.

And then to run it back in the Unrivaled Championship game.

We've seen it time and time again, but like when the game's on the line too, yes you can rely on Paige, but, you also had one of the most clutchest shooters in the league in Arike.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's real.

It's real.

I mean, she re- she played incredibly well against Indiana, 32 points.

That gave what you know about the volume shooter that Arike is.

Um- but then she also had like two nights earlier this month where she scored five points.

Yeah.

And like that's the problem.

But you're right- Yeah that clutch gene is live and active.

Um- She's in there and yeah.

And I think both, you know, having her and Paige in-- Oh, this is gonna be the first time we get to see that in the playoffs.

I know.

Exactly.

Oh, I just got really excited about that.

I know.

No, the match-ups are good.

Yeah.

Like all of them.

Yeah.

When you were just listing them, I'm like, "Ooh.

Oh."

Yeah.

Oh.

See?

And there's so many storylines packed in each one of them.

Like you said, even like one and eight, like even Paige going to Minnesota, like her hometown, I, I love that aspect of it all.

Mm-hmm.

You got three and six I thought- Paige versus Olivia you said.

Paige r- Exactly.

Yeah.

Like incredible match-up.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Let me pu- pause you here 'cause this will be- Okay, I'm sorry how we close then.

We'll close on this.

Oh, I got my ahead of myself.

What is the be- like the number one match-up you're looking forward to seeing in the playoffs?

Oh.

Oh wait, that's hard.

Oh, my goodness.

You know what?

Honestly, give me Aces- And it doesn't have to be first round.

It can just be like- Oh, at all?

However you think it's gonna play out.

Yeah.

No, I'll do, I'll do first round.

Um- Okay give me Vegas and New York.

Like if things ended today, we'd obviously- Mm-hmm see that match-up.

I'm not really sure, 'cause like New York could make a push, but New York, they've beat the Aces three out of their four times, like including the Commissioner Cup game.

Mm-hmm.

And the Aces are looking to repeat, so I would like to see that.

Obviously you got A'ja Wilson, Breanna Stewart, like at this point in the season, you throw the seeds out.

This is, this is the best of the best.

We've seen them clash since college.

I love, I always love when the Aces face off with New York.

And then- Yeah if I c- You know, I like to cheat and slide another one in.

But obviously anyone who plays Washington, I, I love Washington's story this year.

Yeah.

Like they, th- they're ahead of schedule.

Mm-hmm.

They're not supposed to be here.

Mm-hmm.

And I think like no one remind them of their age, 'cause a- as long as they keep just hooping and playing free and confident, they could be dangerous- Yeah whoever they're matched up with.

Yeah.

If it is the Golden State Valkyries, they're also a team who's ahead of schedule.

That- that's gonna be a phenomenal, phenomenal game- Yeah series.

Oof.

So I, I almost don't want Las Vegas and New York to meet up in the first round 'cause I'm like, "No, give us- Okay give us some anticipation."

I know.

But you're right.

To me that, they're my favorite rivalry.

They're my favorite.

Yeah.

They are so fun to watch.

Mm-hmm.

A'ja versus Stewie, like, but I hate- Popcorn for it to happen early.

And so that's why I'm like- I know, 'cause then one ha- one's out of the playoffs.

That's true.

Like let's see- That's how I feel about the Dream and, Fever Yeah That's why I came and picked that one.

Yeah.

That one's just gonna stress me out.

That's true.

One of Yeah.

That's the thing is like one of those two- Exactly would kick out a team that you're like, "Oh, they're so fun to watch."

Exactly.

Yeah.

But ultimately if I can get a, No, that's my favorite.

I'm not even gonna try to Like, my favorite is Vegas, New York.

Okay.

I just don't want it to be in the first round.

I know.

So we'll see what happens.

I know, I know.

So wherever they meet up, if l- the, you know, the stars align, then that would be the match-up for me.

This was so much fun.

Thank you so much for coming on and giving us your perspective.

You will be back.

Yes.

You will be back.

I can't wait.

Thank you for having me.

Yay.

Good.

Okay.

Well, stick with us, y'all.

Right after the break, Sabrina is joined by Daeja Kelly of the Charlotte Crown in the Upshot League, the new women's basketball league.

You've already seen two players called up from that league to the WNBA, so she's gonna talk to her about her experience in the league and how it's filling a gap in women's basketball.

All right.

Joining us now is the guard from the Charlotte Crown of the new Upshot League.

It's Daeja Kelly.

Daeja, thank you so much for joining us on No Off Season.

Of course.

Thanks for having me.

Happy to be here.

Yeah.

So a very, very big week for you, but we should start at the top here.

For those of us who are may not be familiar with Upshot yet, what exactly is this league?

Yeah.

I would say the best way to describe it is the league of opportunity.

You know, that's what Commissioner Donna had told us, early on when it first started during our, or before our first game, and I think that that It has proven and shown to be exactly that.

You know, you've seen a couple players who've been called up to the W. You've seen a lot of player just, players just get kind of that recognition that they were kinda searching for with playing in this league.

And, for me personally, it was just playing here was about just getting better.

How can I have a, an opportunity to continue to grow my game playing stateside, you know, being able to play in front of my family and friends while also, like I said, continuing to grow my game, get film, and just get more eyes on me and just, you know, really show what I can do.

So I would really just describe what the Upshot League is, is basically a league of opportunity.

Right.

So this is year one of the league, right?

We've got four teams.

You play for Charlotte, which I'm sure your old fans from the University of North Carolina are very happy to see you back in the Tar Heel State.

Um- Very and then you have tons of games against the other three teams, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Lots of games.

So I think it's, with it being the inaugural year, you know, there's only four teams, so it's tough having to play each other that many times and, you know, but by this point everyone's familiar with each other's games.

Everyone knows the scout, so there's not really any scouts.

Really just like you, you're going based off of what you know, and it's really just about competing at that point.

Which luckily, that's all that this com- this league is com- kind of made up of is, is a lot of competitors, a lot of people who have played at different places and have had different experiences playing professionally or who are coming straight from college.

So it's really just like, it's, it's about adapting.

It's about being adaptable to your environment, adapting to having to play the same teams.

Yeah, we just played, Savannah this past weekend back-to-back, or, or Greensboro back-to-back.

The weekend before we played Savannah three times in a row, so it's like you're just get- f- it's familiarity.

So it's just like basically about who, you know, can compete at the highest level at the end of the day in order to win some games and, that's what this, this upcoming championship game will be about too.

We've seen Jacksonville quite a few times, a really good team, so it's just kinda about, you know, the little things, the little details that'll matter.

So this is a league that runs concurrently with the WNBA, right?

You guys started in about May?

Yep.

Okay.

May 15th was our first game.

Yeah.

Right.

And then your championship game will be this Saturday on August 29th, so very similar schedule length.

Um- Yeah being part of a, a brand new league must be a pretty unique experience.

I'm just wondering like how you feel Upshot fills any gaps in the women's basketball ecosystem here in the United States.

Yeah, I think it just, it provides more options, more space, more opportunity just for players like myself, who have big dreams of playing in the W and who are planning to get back there but just need, you know, a d- another platform or just there's just no space.

You know, the W is still working on finding more space and spots, for a lot of good players who are currently out the league as well.

So I think that that's what this league is about, and it's about, you know, you've seen Unrivaled, you've seen Athletes Unlemi- Unlimited providing that, that space and opportunities for players in the off-season, so they don't have to go overseas.

And now for this league, for it to be happening simultaneously as the W, that provides more opportunities for players to where they don't have to go overseas right away in the summer.

They can stay stateside, and W teams can kinda pull from the, the pool of players that are in the Upshot League.

So I feel like that's where it's kind of ultimately described as like a G League, or what it's, it could become is a G League- Yeah of, of the WNBA.

And I think just with kinda the direction it's going, I think it very much could be that.

But it's also, could be a competing league too.

I think, you know, once you see more and more, players, more expansion, I know already by next year there's gonna be two new teams, in this league, so you just see the expansion, you see the growth.

We saw the growth in live time this season, just of, of new players coming in and people seeing that it's actually high level competition.

It's high level basketball.

It's really good games.

It's really good, you know, just being able to the, the good environment.

You see the environments grow.

So I think that it could It's just, like I said, another opportunity, more spots, and allows more players to just be able to grow their game.

Another space for them to grow their game and get better.

What's been the day-to-day experience like for you in this league?

I know when you're building something from the s- from scratch, like there's probably a lot of, off the court stuff that goes into it too.

But what- Yeah what's that experience been like?

Yeah.

It's been fun.

It's been, you know, you learn a lot.

You learn about, a lot about, just kind of being a pro.

I think, you know, with, with this being kinda my like legit first summer of playing professional basketball, this is a lo- there's a lot of people who have come straight from college, so they're kinda figuring out and learning the ins and outs of it.

But like a day-to-day it's really, you know, it's just basketball.

Like I think that's something that's different is it's literally you wake up, you have practice, and then you really have the rest of the day to, you know, take care of your body, fuel, you know, have media obligations and things like that.

But I think that overall it's just like it's just hoops, and I think that that's something, that it's a space that prepares you for wherever you go next to.

So like, you know, you have a lot of players who are going overseas.

That's kinda what it's gonna look like.

You have players who, like I said, are, are trying to get back to the W. That's what it's gonna look like.

It's a lot of back-to-backs.

I think preparing for that, this is my first time playing back-to-backs like that, or back-to-back-to-backs like that.

So it's like teaching you how to kind of prepare your bodies, how to take care of your bodies, and you're kinda essent- you're essentially on your own.

Like it's, it's figuring out how to be a true professional, and I think that's where I've grown the most, and have learned a lot just, you know, about what I need and to, to be successful and to perform at a high level.

You know, figuring out what, what works and what doesn't for me.

So I think that it's a, it's been a great experience.

Day-to-day, being in the city of Charlotte has been great.

Again, I've ha- I have ties with, with UNC, so just being able to h- kinda have familiarity there.

That's been really helpful, and it's made my transition easier.

But overall, yeah, I think it's, it's just about, you know, figuring out what- What you need and, and how to move and, and, you know, play at a high level like, like a true professional.

So you've been in W training camp, you've been at Athletes Unlimited as well.

How has this experience compared to what you've also done in other levels of professional basketball?

Yeah, I think it, it compares to where it's just, it's just really good basketball.

You know, I think at all, all levels that I've played at so far, you know, it, it requires the same thing.

It requires the same intensity level, it requires the same knowledge, the same IQ that you have for the game, the same feel.

And for me, this is just this experience and opportunity has been good for me just being, because I'm able to be, it's kind of a little smaller environment, so I have more room to grow.

I have more trust, like with Coach Trish to be able to, you know, grow my game and, and figure those things out.

Like, to where you probably don't get that much of a, that long of a leash maybe, you know, in the W and, and elsewhere.

So I think for like playing here has really like prepared me, truly a lot just, you know, to be able to show that I can perform at a high level on, on any W team and showing what I can provide and different things and being versatile in those ways.

So, I think that that's what's been really good for me to work- but it's just been consistent in the leagues I've played in.

You know, being in camp, being in Athletes Unlimited, it's all, it's all the same.

Requires the same of you, it, and that's to be a professional.

That's to carry yourself that way on and off the court.

That's to, like I said, perform at a high level.

They expect you to perform at a high level.

That's what you're getting paid to do.

And if you don't, it could, it could change in a second.

You've seen just within the Upshot League, there's been a lot of roster changes.

I know we had a lot.

So it's just like if you're not performing, you can get cut, whatever, waved, whatever you call it at any moment.

So it just, it shows you that like each day matters.

Every detail matters, no matter who you are.

And so that's something that I really, you know, take to heart and really keep it at the forefront, you know, day by day 'cause even with this Upshot League, this is preparing me for my ultimate goal, which is playing in the W. And so how can I, be consistent with my habits and be consistent with being disciplined and, so I can be able to perform at the highest level for whatever my team needs on a day-to-day basis?

What part of your game do you think has experienced the most growth on the court during this season?

Ooh.

I think, it has been, I think, I would say knowing when to have a good balance of, just being a true point guard.

Um- Scoring point guard, play making point guard, I think.

You're, there's so many different names now, you know?

Right.

Basketball's becoming position-less almost.

But I think just being like really knowing how to do both consistently.

I feel like my whole career, even in college, like I was a play maker.

You know, people, scouts, GMs have told me like my scoring is intriguing and they know that I can do that, but how can I elevate everyone else around me?

How can I make everyone else better to contribute to the team's success?

And that's something that I feel like this whole summer that I've grown a lot in.

And Coach Trish has helped me do that as well, just being able to, we're watching film, you know, we're seeing different areas where, you know, I, maybe I have a shot, but that's probably like how can I get my teammate a better, higher percentage shot for s- for the overall team success?

Like just looking at those little things and, growing in that way because I know that that's the role that I would be playing, you know, when I first get to the W and at first, and knowing that I have to play make for others, play make for the other, you know, good players on the team and, build my way up from there.

I know that I can score.

I know that I'm a competitor.

I know that I can defend.

I know that I can, you know, do, do all those things and using my voice.

But just being a true play maker, you know, play making point guard and doing both and elevating everyone else around me for the overall success of the team, that's something that I feel like I've grown a lot on.

And of course just when it comes to scoring, I think just being consistent from the three, I think the whole second half of this season, that's something that I really expanded and really, focused on is, is trying to, take and make threes off the dribble and off the catch con- at a consistent rate.

Especially when the ball's not in my hands, how can I, you know, still be effective and, and being able to knock down an open shot, and like I said, also try to find, you know, good shots and good plays for, for my teammates too.

Yeah, I feel like you're describing a lot of the things that I saw you take a huge leap at when you were at Oregon too, so it- Yes.

Yeah I'm sure this evolution's been a lot of fun, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no, for sure.

That was why I went to Oregon, 'cause I knew that that was a transition that I wanted to make.

And I, I w- I just wish I had more time there.

So I think now this is like, this, like I said, this is an opportunity for me to continue to do that y- you know, at a high level and at a consistent level as well.

How would you describe, I guess, the overall style of play in Upshot?

Like, is it, you know, super physical?

Is it like a lot of- open space?

Like how, how would you describe it?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's definitely physical.

I think that that's, but I think that's what makes it fun, and I think that that, challenges you in a different way too, because that's what, the W will be like.

That's what overseas is like.

So for me it's just, you know, how can you play for everybody, learning to play through that physicality.

I think it's really fast-paced.

I think, you know, when you have a league like this, and again, when you are playing a team so many times and you know the scout, like it's really just now it's just like transitioning game.

And I know for us specifically, you know, averaging the highest points per game in the league, that's our biggest goal is to how can we create more possessions.

I know that that's what I'm telling my teammates, like how can we just get out and run?

Sometimes a quick shot is a good shot for us, because again, that just creates more possessions, and we know that we can lock down and defend and create another opportunity and transition and just push pace.

So I think that- I would say it's, like, fast-paced, it's physical.

But for us, just in our specific style of play, too, I think it's fast-paced.

Defensively, we're trying to speed you up too, you know, and try- but we'll, we'll kinda drag out the shot clock, too, and, and defend.

So I think it's just, it's a, it's a little mix of a few different things, I think, just depending on the team.

Yeah.

But overall, for the Upshot League, I would definitely say just highly competitive, and physical, which I think that's what hoops is about.

That's what pr- professional- hoops is about.

So nothing- Very much so new to, to some people.

Yeah.

Totally.

And I imagine as you guys add more teams, like, everyone will have their own different styles of play, and there'll be a little bit more variety- Yes you know- For sure throughout the league.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

So big week, right?

Mentioned this at the top.

You guys are playing in the championship game this Saturday against Jacksonville.

This is, this is dream, right?

You wanna be playing for titles.

So what's, what's on the scouting report here?

What's it gonna take to, to get this W done here?

Yeah.

This is exciting.

You know, we're real- we're all really excited just being able to play in the first You know, being a part of anything for the first time I think is, is really special, and, you know, your name is stamped in that.

So we wanna approach it as such.

I wanna app- approach it as such, you know, that this is an opportunity to, you know, really thrive and shine in that moment.

And for, for the team, we're really excited to play for each other.

I think our biggest thing is just to compete, you know?

I think, like I was saying earlier, those little details, those are what matters in games like this, especially when, you know, people know what I can do, people know what Shaquilla can do, people know what, Raegan can do, like, all those things.

So n- then it comes down to, like, the little plays, the hustle plays.

And I think defensively, that'll be a big, a big focus for us, is how can we g- create stops offensively so we can get out in, in transition and, you know, do what we do offensively.

But I think on the defensive end, that'll be the biggest focus for us.

And just having fun.

I think enjoying the moment, I think that'll be a really exciting atmosphere.

Jacksonville draws a really good crowd, so, you know, hopefully we have a little, a few of our fans backing us there.

But, either way, we're gonna play like it's a home game, and, like I said, just embrace the moment, embrace the opportunity and, you know, play to, to win the first championship of, of the Upshot League.

So we know what you guys do well, right?

Up-tempo, wanting to push the pace.

What, what does Jacksonville do well?

What should we be on the lookout for there?

Yeah.

They're also really up-tempo.

You know, they're right below us in points per game, so, our biggest thing when we play them is just trying to sh- slow them down, and, just make them use the whole clock a- as best we can.

And, but also put pressure on them, offensively.

You know, they have We have, sometimes we have some mitch- mismatches, you know, when we get out in transition, but even when we slow it down.

So just trying to take advantage of those as early and often as we can, I think that'll, set the tone early.

But what they do well, they have so m- they can space the floor.

They have bigs that can shoot, so they space our bigs out a little bit.

But, you know, so just us focusing on, like, our game plan with that.

But, they're a really good team, and they've I don't think it- they've had, like, any roster changes.

So they, like, have really had the time to gel, and they haven't really had to have anybody else to adjust to, I would say, like, in terms of just their own, their own team.

So they have really good chemistry.

They play really well off of each other.

They play really well in, in the actions that they run.

They have a lot of quick action, quick hitters that, they run really well.

So, you know, it'll just be on us to, to lock down and guard.

And again, we, we know the scout, they know ours.

You know, we're really familiar with, with each other's play style.

So, like I said, it'll just come to de- down to defense and those extra hustle plays and details.

Makes sense.

That sounds like every level of basketball.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, here at No Off Season, we're always trying to familiarize ourself with everything happening in the women's game, so thank you, Daeja, for taking the time to let us know about Upshot.

Best of luck to you and the Charlotte Crown this weekend.

If you're listening, the championship game is going to be on Saturday, August 29th at 7:00 PM, and you can stream the game on YouTube to watch.

Again, that's Charlotte versus Jacksonville.

So good luck.

Thank you again for your time, and, yeah, appreciate you coming on No Off Season.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me, and make sure y'all tune in to the chip game.

That is so dope.

Thank you so much for Daeja Kelly stopping by before the championship game to give us an inside look at Upshot.

Best luck, best of luck to you and the Charlotte Crown in the game this weekend.

All right, y'all, that is all we have for today.

Annie and Sabrina will be back tomorrow.

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Appreciate you all for listening for today.

I know it was a long one.

Me and Autumn, phew, we can go.

Please, drop us a rating as well, and a comment.

Let us know what you think about the WNBA simulator.

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On behalf of The Athletic, ATL's finest, Autumn Johnson, Daeja Kelly, and our hoops savant, Sabrina Merchant, I'm Zena Kada.

Thank you for listening.

We'll see you next time.

No Off Season is hosted by Zena Kada with Chantel Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, and Annie Costable.

It's produced by Tanika Burrell.

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