Did the Browns and Eagles Make the Right Call?

On this episode of Stacking the Box, Tommy Jaggi and Marcus Mosher break down the Browns trading Myles Garrett to the Rams for Jared Verse and draft picks, the Eagles sending A.J. Brown to the Patriots, and what these moves mean for the future of all four franchises. Did the Rams become overwhelming Super Bowl favorites? Did the Patriots just give Drake Maye the weapon he needed? And are the Browns finally executing a long-term rebuild the right way?

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Video Transcript

Tommy Jaggay here of fans sided with NFL expert Marcus Mosier, and we're in June, Marcus.

Typically the slowest calendar month of the football year.

But we have some massive blockbuster trades.

Uh, one that we kind of expected for some time now, AJ Brown, we'll get to that in a little bit.

And one that was a little bit more out of the blue and just monumental because we're talking about one of the best defensive players to ever set foot on the football field, and that is Miles Garrett going from Cleveland to the Los Angeles Rams, a powerhouse already.

The rich get richer, the Rams are a tough, tough team.

We're gonna talk about that.

What, what was your first thought, Marcus, when you saw this trade drop?

I wasn't surprised because once the, the Browns deferred the roster bonus of Miles Garrett from March until late August, you kind of knew that this was gonna open the door for a potential trade because for Miles Garrett, there's no reason to defer that bonus.

It's $26 million that was gonna come to him in March, and the only reason you defer it is if you potentially want to get traded.

So, We knew as soon as June 1st got here and the Browns could spread some of the dead money over two years, that at least the trade rumors were going to start.

I wasn't shocked that it happened because, and we'll get to this in a little bit because I think it makes sense for the Browns long term.

I am a little surprised that it's the Rams that came off and made the big offer, but we, maybe we shouldn't have been.

This is a team that has historically under less need been incredibly aggressive.

They understand championship windows, and now they've got the reigning MVP and the reigning defensive player of the Year on the same team.

They were a couple of plays away last year from winning the Super Bowl, or at least going to the Super Bowl, and I don't think they wanna be short again this year.

Yeah.

And what if the Rams have only made, I think, 3 first-round picks over the last 7 or 8 years.

I mean, they, they've made a Jared, the Jared Goff pick way back when.

They went a couple of years without a first-rounder.

Uh, they obviously drafted Ty Simpson in the first round this year, but they've already traded, uh, a pick away for Trent McDuffie.

And so it's kind of a little bit surprising to see them go out and do the same.

I mean, they just keep getting stronger.

So, let's talk about the compensation here overall.

What does the nails.

So the Rams are getting a future Hall of Famer , Miles Garrett, who is going to be just an instant superstar on their team.

But it's not necessarily a cheap deal.

In exchange, they are giving the Browns Jared Vurse, the, uh, Defensive Rookie of the Year from 2024, two-time Pro Bowler, second in the NFL in pressures last year, 100 pressures.

Uh, Jarred Vurse, a 2027 first-round pick, 2028 second-round pick.

In a 2029 third-round pick.

Marcus, the, the price is never right when we're talking about Miles Garrett, but when we consider that he is a 30-year-old player in the state of the Browns, like, how do you feel about this if you're a Browns fan right now?

I think it really depends on what you think about Jared verse as a player.

If you think Jared versus a top 10 or top 12 edge player, this is an awesome deal.

And if you don't, I understand why you're a little bit hesitant on the deal.

Let, let's just, let's talk about versus the player first because I think this really matters.

Last year he was the 14th rated edge rusher by Pro Football Focus.

He's an awesome run defender.

He racks up a bunch of pressures.

He's not the best at finishing plays and getting sacks, but that's OK.

He's really, really good at bull rushing and collapsing the pocket.

I think the reason why this trade ultimately got done.

It is because the Browns just really value Jared Burse and they value his contract.

I believe that they are gonna be paying Jared Vurse a total of $5 million over the next two years.

They'll have the 5th year option available in 2028.

So you are paying pennies for one of the top, at least top 15 edge rushers in the league.

And on top of, you know, having a need, uh, you know, now you feel that need at edge, you also pick up a 2027 1st, and yes, it's probably gonna be late, probably in the 30s.

But I think the idea is that Cleveland's going to be drafting a quarterback next year, and you just needed more picks, because the Jets have three first round picks, the Dolphins are gonna be bad, the Cardinals are gonna be bad.

You wanna put yourself into a position where you can either draft a quarterback or trade up to get one.

And now because of this compensation, they have the ability to do so.

Yeah, I mean, it's just wild to think.

I mean, and again, it's not super surprising.

You, you talked about the money pushing the can down the road there a little bit, uh, versus if you're talking about Edge rushers like 26 and under, you can count on one hand probably how many you'd rather have over Jared Vurse and the pressure ability is obviously there.

Sack ability only 4.5 his first year, 7.5 last year .

I do think a lot of that is because he is very much a bull rushing pass rusher, and a lot of times it just doesn't translate to sack production.

It doesn't mean he's not good.

He's a very good football player.

I, I mean, I think that it's, it's relatively fair and a lot of people saying, well, the Browns got fleeced in this deal.

It's like, yeah, this is Miles Garrett.

Like you can, a team is only gonna give you so much.

We kind of saw that with the Micah Parsons deal as well.

And you kind of, if you cross compare it, Marcus, like Micah gets traded for Kenny Clarke and a pair of first round picks.

That's, that's rich.

I mean, You're not gonna get more than that, right, for a 30 year old as good as Garrett is .

Like, was there a scenario anywhere out there where the Rams, uh, or excuse me, the Browns could have gotten more for Garrett?

Well, let me ask you this, do you think?

Do you think the, the Browns got more for Miles Garrett than what the Cowboys did for Micah Parsons?

I think it's debatable to say that maybe this is more.

I mean, if you, if you talk about, would you rather have a first-round pick or the guaranteed superstar pass rusher who's 25 years old, like give me Jared Burse, especially if you're gonna trade 1 to 1, and if you're going to go out and invest that first pick into an edge rusher anyway, you're likely not getting Jared Vurse.

You're certainly not getting Miles Garrett, you're.

Likely not getting Jared Burse.

I asked on Twitter last night, I said, if, if knowing what you know now about Jared Burse, where does he go in the 2026 NFL draft?

And I got a variety of responses, but the most common response was number two.

He would be the first edge off the board ahead of David Bailey.

Let's even say that's aggressive.

Let's say it's a top five pick.

So you get the fifth overall pick, again, and probably more.

Whereas the Packers, or excuse me, the, the, the, the, the Cowboys got the 20th pick this year, uh, from Green Bay for, for the, for Micah Parsons.

They got Kenny Clarke, and they'll probably get one more pick in the 20 next year.

You could argue this, the 5th round, the, the 5th overall pick alone would be worth more than what the, the Cowboys are getting for Micah Parsons.

I, I, I think it's a huge win for Cleveland.

The other part of this, Tommy, and you mentioned it, if you look at the, all the edges in the NFL who are under the age of 26, I put together a list, and you tell me where Jared Bruce would rank.

I, I've got Willie Anderson, 1.

I've got Aiden who's 24.7, Aiden Hutchinson, 25.8, so he barely fits into that criteria.

And then I think it's Jarred Vurse at 25.5.

Like there's just, there's really no other names in that under 26 range that are even close.

It's Willie Anderson, it's Aiden Hutchinson, and it's Jared Burse.

Yeah, those are the big three, and I think you would have to completely just gamble on a player, uh, one of these really young guys like Abdul Carter or David Bailey, and then they're so uncertain.

Like at this point, I would say no, those guys are good, the ones you just mentioned, and I would take verse over both those guys for one.

the main reason.

So I think, Marcus, if we look at it in that sense, you can view him as like, you're getting a top 5 pick in the draft essentially, because that's where Verse would be drafted, uh, basically in any redraft.

I mean, this is a 100 pressure a year guy, 2-time Pro Bowler, deservingly so, uh, best player on his defense, Rookie of the Year.

Like, he's got the pedigree building up already.

I do think it's a good trade for the Browns regardless of, of what some have said about it, because here's what we're looking at right now.

You either hang on to Miles Garrett, and there's something to be said for that.

He's the best player in franchise history.

I mean, he, he's really that good, he's gonna go down as one of the best defensive players in the history of the game.

You could hang on to him for the rest of his career, force him to be in a situation he doesn't necessarily love to be in because the Browns obviously just have no chance of competing in their own division right now, let alone in the conference.

Or you can do right by him and kind of do right by your franchise and looking towards the future and saying, our window is not now.

Perhaps it could be 234 years down the line.

They don't have their quarterback situation figured out, let alone other parts of the roster.

And so, I do think that it's doing right by Garrett, it's doing right by the franchise, and you're not gonna get Miles Garrett out of Jarred Burse, but you are getting 5 years younger.

And you could be getting a player who ends up being the next era with Aiden Hutchinson, Will, with Will Anderson, of being that next era of ascending pass rushers who are going to get better as these guys maybe get worse.

And I'm, I'm not gonna put a time limit on Garrett at all.

Like, I think this is the type of player, this is the Julius Peppers type who can just completely defy age and time together at the position.

But would it shock me if he only looks like 80% of himself two years from now?

No, I won't be shocked by that.

I think that there's a lot of evidence in edge rusher, uh, shelf life, and I think that he's approaching that, but I do think he will exceed it.

When do you think Garrett's ultimately gonna fall off and how many good years do you think he's gonna give the Rams?

It's a really good question.

Uh, and real quick on the Cleveland side before we, we move on.

Uh, Jared Verse is from Dayton, Ohio.

It's about 3 hours from Cleveland.

So I do think it, it helps to get somebody from the area as well.

Uh, we'll, we'll talk more about the Browns in a second, but to answer to your question, I think Miles Garrett has.

At least 3 really good years left.

Well, I think once you get to this point in your career where you're considered an all-time great, these guys, these guys are usually pretty good at extending the windows, and I've got a couple of examples for you.

Number 1 would be Reggie White, who joined the Packers at age 32, and I believe he won a Defensive Player of the Year award and was a 4-time All-Pro selection from age 32 on once he got to Green Bay.

Now, Miles Garrett will be 31 this year with the Rams.

That's an example of a player.

An all-time great player who joined another team and helped them lead him to the Super Bowl.

Uh, Bruce Smith, I believe with the Bills had 6 1st team All-Pro selections after his 10th season in the NFL.

Again, that is considered one of the best all-time pass rushers.

I think Miles Garrett is on that tier.

And the other part of it, Tommy, that we just aren't talking about enough, there were so many games over Miles Garrett's career.

Where in the second half of these games, teams were just running the ball because they had these leads and they didn't have to throw.

Now you're putting Miles Garrett into a situation where he's gonna be playing on a team that has a lot of leads against opponents, they're gonna have to throw the ball.

Miles Garrett's not gonna have to worry about stopping the run.

You're gonna see somebody who I, to me, I could, I could see having 120 pressures next year.

And I know sacks are flukey, but another 20 sacks season, like, I think this is going to extend his career, not shorten it.

Yeah, and I mean, you talk about that situation he's going into right now.

We just saw an all-time season from Miles Garrett this past year.

He could top that even.

I mean, that's not out of the question at all.

And so, going back to that, how, if you just had to put an arbitrary number out there right now, knowing Miles Garrett, knowing just The player that he is and how he just never seems to wear down, like, how many years do you think he gives the Rams of elite play?

I'll say at least 4.

OK.

So 4 years, I mean, they would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

Heck, they'd probably do it for 2 years because their Super Bowl window is right now, they've got a 37-year-old Stafford, they're ready to win.

And, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Rams are viewing this as a rental.

Like, hey, we're gonna use him for as long as Matt Stafford is here, and maybe as long as Sean McVeigh is here and At age 33, 34, if we need to cash him in for a first round pick to, you know, improve our roster, we can do that.

I, I, I just don't see him slowing down anytime soon.

I think if there were some signs like over the last couple of years, I would be concerned, but Tommy, I, I kinda think last year, I mean, He set the NFL sack record.

He's clearly not declining, and he's not somebody that is like a smaller guy that you're worried about like the quickness.

I mean, he's 275 pounds and he's absolutely shredded.

I think his game is gonna age incredibly well.

I just don't see a scenario where the Rams regret this trade.

I really don't.

It would have to be like a catastrophic injury to Garrett, which he doesn't have a history of.

And so, uh, barring anything.

Like that, I think they're going to be very pleased with what they're getting, especially considering they were maybe a few plays away from going to the Super Bowl and probably trouncing the New England Patriots last year.

Well, and, and think about it like this, just in this offseason alone, they've added Trent McDuffie, an all-pro cornerback, Jalen Watson, a really high-end starter, and they've added Miles Garrett, the best defensive player in the league.

This used to be a team that, that you're just hoping that, you know, you survive on defense, have a top 15, top 16 defense.

I think they're gonna be able to win games on defense alone this offseason, and we should mention Chris Shula, who got a lot of head coaching interviews this cycle, uh, decided to stay, keep that continuity there.

This is going to be a dominant defense right away.

I agree, they're the most threatening team in the league.

I thought they were before the Miles.

Trade.

And so they certainly are right now.

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Go over and check it out.

All right, Marcus, let's talk about now the state of the Cleveland Browns and where they are.

And we touched on it a little bit already, but I, for one, I, I was even saying as early as last offseason, when they had a 29 year old Miles Garrett, it's like, this team is going nowhere fast, and is it better to keep Garrett on this roster and just say, yes, we, we lay claim to this player for his entire career.

Or is it better to legitimately try to get out of the gutter for once and to become a contender again in Cleveland.

And so, I, I was on board with trading Garrett even last offseason.

But heck, you got a, you just got a phenomenal all-time season out of him, and you were still able to trade him, uh, for a good ransom.

Like I, I, do you think, let me ask you this.

If the Browns had traded Miles Garrett last offseason , a season earlier, is he worth any more or any, excuse me, any less than he was right now coming off of a record-breaking year?

No, and that's, that's the great part of it for Cleveland is they got to have this really fun season that everybody's.

Gonna remember, uh, and the trade value didn't go down.

You're just, you're not getting a guy like Jared Burse last offseason, probably for, for Miles Garrett.

And I, I think one of the things I can really appreciate about the Browns, and I, again, I know they're not going to be a contender this year, but they have organizational clarity.

I, I think they know where they're at in their rebuild, and they know what the future is gonna look like.

And rather than Convincing themselves that everything's gonna fall into place and they're gonna go onto this magical run, they've set themselves up to have success down the road, because now you look at this team.

I, I, I, I don't think they're, honestly, I don't think they're gonna be bad because I think the defense is gonna be really good.

They've got the defensive line, Tommy, and the front seven's really good.

You've got Jarred versus Alex Wright and Isaiah McGuire, 3 really good edge rushers.

You've got, uh, Mason Graham, who you drafted at 5th over.

Overall last year, you have the reigning Defensive Rookie of the Year and Carson Schlesinger.

You still have Denzel Ward.

You've got Ty, uh, you know, uh, got Campbell, uh, Ty Campbell insecondary.

You drafted Emmanuel McNeil Warren at safety.

Like you've got a lot of young building blocks on defense.

And now you have the assets for 2027 and beyond to go get that quarterback.

It might not work out, they might not draft that quarterback.

Maybe they, they, they don't finish inside the top three, but at least you've given yourself some pass to actually becoming a contender down the road.

Yeah, I just wrote an article on the Browns yesterday, and while I, I tip my hat to them, they had the self-awareness to recognize the state of their football team.

They just went under, underwent major coaching changes.

Major changes to the offensive line.

This team is not ready to win right now.

If they couldn't do it last year when Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow were injured, they're not gonna do it this year.

And so, uh, for them to recognize, yes, our, we're not in a very good position.

We need a franchise quarterback.

We need a lot of things still.

Now you go out and have, get another 1st-round pick.

You've got 21sts next year, a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th or 3 4ths, 2 5ths, like, and then capital for the future as well, trickling over these next few seasons.

They should.

I mean, I, we can talk all we want about the Browns as an organization, but they should be able to completely turn this roster at least around over the next 2 or 3 seasons and load up with talent if they play their cards right.

And that's a big if when it comes to the Browns, but they should be able to do it.

But I also I also like the idea of what they did in the draft this year.

They set themselves up for that next franchise quarterback by drafting Spencer Fo, by drafting two receivers in Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston, by adding some of that day 3 draft capital so they can move around.

I think ideally they would love to draft an Arch Manning or Dante Moore, but I think if they get stuck at, you know, pick 4 or 5 next year and you've got to take a Jeremiah Smith, that's OK as well.

You're still building for whenever that quarterback comes.

Again, they understand the timeline here, and this is, the NFL is all about windows.

The Rams understood that, the Browns understood that.

I think there's a lot of teams in the NFL that would really benefit from taking a 10,000 ft view of their roster and of their franchise.

I think these two teams know themselves better than anybody else.

Yeah, and I think that if you are a Browns fan right now , it might feel like a gut punch that you finally found this generational superstar talent and you traded him away.

He didn't get to play out his full career, especially when he's at the peak of his career right now as well.

But I do think that there It could be light at the end of the tunnel for the Browns.

Obviously, you got to find a franchise quarterback eventually.

They they've been just so, it's had such bad luck over the years with like Derek Anderson, and you had a year of Baker Mayfield where he, he had a good season and he kind of fell back off and They just have not found that guy.

I think once you do, you're gonna be in a much better position.

But it goes back to it in saying, this is the self-awareness.

You were able to move on, you recognize what you needed to do, and you did it.

I applaud them for that.

I think that that's going to work out best for them in the end.

And Marcus, I think this is one of those trades where we could truly say a couple of years from now, it worked out for the Rams.

Maybe they get another Super Bowl out of it, and it might work out for the Browns as well.

They get a young ascending pass rusher and a bunch of capital.

I agree.

I, I can't wait to see how it plays.

Well, I'm not excited to watch the Rams.

It's just not gonna be fair.

So I am excited to see how it plays out for Cleveland.

Yeah, thankfully they're over there in the NFC.

All right, from the highs, the heart breaks every headline, this is stacking the Box, your source of NFL talk powered by Fancied and the voices at Fancied.com.

Let's talk about the AJ Brown trade, not to push this to the back burner, but AJ Brown, one that we've been talking about really since 2025 where, we're kind of trade speculation.

Started heating up, uh, between the Eagles and the Patriots in March.

That kind of materialized much more and we knew that something was likely going to get done eventually.

Now it officially has.

Brown is going to the Patriots in exchange, uh, for a first-round pick.

And what's the, what, what other trade detail details?

Uh, yeah, it's a 2027 5th round pick as well.

So it's, whatever.

Really, it's a 2028 1st round pick.

Uh, how do you feel about that trade, just in general?

I mean, the Eagles kind of, we knew it, did they lose leverage at all?

It seems like they would have .

They, they drafted Makay Lemon, they made, uh, some corresponding moves here to kind of push AJ Brown out the door.

I, I'm surprised they were maybe able to get as much as they were for him at this point when they, everybody knew he was gonna be traded.

Me too.

I, I'm not saying it's a bad trade for New England because what we just talked about with Cleveland and Los Angeles, they understood the window, like the, the Patriots' window to win is right now.

They've got a really good quarterback in Drake May on a rookie contract, and they've got that for the next two years.

I don't think they care so much about the 2029, 202,030 seasons.

They will, obviously, but they want to strike while the iron is hot, and honestly, I think right now the AFC is as weak as I've ever seen it.

And if you can go out and get a receiver that you think makes your chances of getting out of the AFC better, you do it.

AJ Brown, I think he's 28, he's gonna be 29 here, you're here soon.

You're worried about what that might look like two years from now.

But again, you don't care if you're the Patriots.

You're trying to win a Super Bowl right now.

Now you've got an ex-receiver on the outside that can make plays down the field.

You signed Romeo Dobbs, who is, I think is a pretty good #2 receiver.

You drafted Kyle Williams in the 3rd round last year.

You still Pop Douglas and Kayshaw Booty and Matt Collins, so you've got numbers at the position.

Now you have an offense that I think can actually score points against really good defenses, and that was the problem for New England last year.

And I think for Philadelphia, you didn't want to make this trade, but the fact that they did get a first-round pick and they were able to draft Makai Lemon, I do think eases the pain a little bit here.

Yeah, and just for clarity, it was a 2028 first-round pick of the Patriots and a 2027 th fifth round pick, they have a pair of them, so whichever one ends up being the better selection of that.

I, I do think, again, this is probably a bigger win for the Patriots than it is for the Eagles because they needed a bona fide 1 weapon in the passing game.

You have a young quarterback in Drake May, and like you said, the biggest reason of all, the AFC is wide open right now.

The, the Patriots are able to win 14 games.

Plus 3 playoff games to get to the Super Bowl last year.

Are they gonna have that type of success?

That's really hard to repeat.

Uh, but they are in a conference that has kind of hitted a low point here.

And now I do think that the teams get tougher.

The Patriots or the, uh, Ravens getting Lamar Jackson back and the Browns getting Joe Burrow back, and, and we'll see what kind of version of Mahomes we get after the ACL recovery.

But, Overall, I just, I feel like the window still is now, like the iron is hot.

Let's strike for the Patriots.

You were already there.

Yeah, I mean, you, you got to the biggest game on turf.

Why not try it and go and take that next step to get you, uh, one step even more over the hump with AJ Brown.

Now, the Eagles side of things, I really like, like what they did as well.

Well, I love Makay Lemon as a football player.

I think that he's tough as nails.

I think he can do a ton of things for your team.

Obviously, things were not working out well with Brown.

He was very disgruntled over the past two years.

I think a move had to be made.

So, if you're gonna make a move, you might as well basically swap that first-round pick.

You get Makay Lemon with it, uh, and then you get a 1st-round pick in exchange.

I really like Makay Lemon, but I don't like the direction this offense is headed because I just think now you're relying on a 170 pound outside receiver, Devonta Smith, who has really struggled to, to beat press coverage.

I saw some of the numbers from Matt Harmon, like his EPA per play as an outside receiver facing press.

is really poor.

And now you take away Brown, who is a deep threat, and the idea with Sean Mannion, the new offensive coordinator, is to use more of a Kyle Shanahan, Clint Kubiak style of offense with more throws over the middle of the field.

Mikay Lemon fits that.

I'm not so sure Jalen Hurts does.

I don't think Hurts, his best ability is timing and anticipation and accuracy.

I think he's way better at extending the play, making throws down the field.

I, I wonder if this offense could look a little clunky out of the gate because so much of their offense was built on being able to run the ball and take shots down the field, and without that premier deep threat, I wonder if you're gonna see more stacked boxes and things just be more congested for the Eagles.

I do, I do question that fit as well.

I don't question Lemon, the player.

I like the skill set that he brings, but I do question kind of the fit.

Uh, they're with the Eagles.

How is that going to mesh for a team that operates their offense the way that they do?

Uh, I'll be interested to see how that works out.

Marcus, I want you to give me a winner in both of these.

A winner of, let's start with the Miles Garrett trade.

Browns or Rams, you can only pick one.

Oh, Rams.

I mean, you were the Super Bowl favorites before that.

Now you're, I think a big time favorite.

I don't think there's anybody in the NFC that's even on their tier.

I, I would be shocked if they're not in the Super Bowl this year.

Agreed.

I'm picking the Rams.

I, like I said, I had the Rams going to the Super Bowl before this.

I certainly don't, that has.

That thought has not changed now that they've added Miles Garrett to that defense, and then a winner of the AJ Brown trade, is it the Patriots or the Eagles?

Uh, Drake May.

Now he gets another receiver to throw it to.

So I'm like, uh, Drake May is the biggest winner here.

I mean, nobody saw the receiving corps improve more this year than New England with Romeo Dobbs, AJ Brown.

Drake May is the big winner.

Yeah.

I, I mean, if, if we're doing that, then I will say that as well.

If we're picking a team, give me the Patriots just because they were so close.

Uh, and I think the AFC is pretty wide open.

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