Giants Talk: Why San Francisco took a risk with Jonah Cox's surprise promotion
"Giants Talk" co-hosts Cole Kuiper and Alex Pavlovic break down Jonah Cox's surprise MLB debut after San Francisco promoted him from Double-A.
Giants Talk: Why San Francisco took a risk with Jonah Cox's surprise promotion originally appeared on NBC Sports Bay Area
Video Transcript
Hey, what's up Giants fans?
Welcome to another episode of Giants Talk.
I'm Cole Kuiper, here with Giants insider Alex Pavlovic.
Giants dropped the series at the always strange Coors Field, but they end it with a game that manages to leave a positive taste in our mouths.
We're gonna talk about that, plus Alex caught up with Bryce Eldridge, major topic of Giants talk this year and certainly for years to come.
Before we get started, Giants Talk is presented by Mancini's Sleepworld.
Mancini's is now the official sleep partner of the San Francisco Giants.
Get moving towards better sleep and save up to $1,200 on top brands at the Mancini's Memorial Day Sale.
We're talking Beautyrest Clean mattresses starting at $299 and Tempur-Pedic starting at $29 a month.
Stop by or visit online to see what's currently available.
All right, Alex, let's start with Sunday, because if I'm being honest, I found it- Oh, no.
This has been, like, the worst week the Giants have had in a long time.
You're not- I- You're not doing it I was like, there is zero chance we're gonna do Giants talk that has any positive energy at all.
I'm gonna go into this like the Joker, just losing my mind, and then they come out and essentially drop 20 runs.
I'll give you, like, 30 seconds.
All right.
What the heck was going on?
Who is this ball team, and why is it so frustrated, frustrating that they have this in their back pocket and then go and do what they did the rest of the week upon us?
Coors Field, day game.
A young man named Tanner Gordon was starting today.
Okay.
Let me, let me read his ERAs the last three years for you.
Alex.
8 point- Do you know, well, no.
Do you know how many Tanner Gordons have looked like prime Tim Lincecum against the San Francisco Giants?
No.
I, who was the dude Saturday, like Ryan Feltner or whoever?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Tanner Gordon at 8.65 ERA, 6.33, 6.37.
Those are his three big league seasons.
So, g- good luck to him.
He's making a living out there in Coors.
But yeah.
So, so you, you're writing off Sunday entirely?
Yeah.
All right.
Entirely.
I don't wanna talk about it.
I think that's fair.
I, that's- I don't, like it's good for them.
Like, some guys got their numbers in, good f- may- you know.
Some guys maybe start feeling a little bit better about themselves.
I, I just, like, I generally Look, I don't even care that much about the, w- we'll get to Friday.
That happens.
Like, I, I don't even, that doesn't even, like, doesn't even, like, register for me.
It's, I saw people tweeting, like, "That's the worst loss I've seen in years," and I'm like, that's not even the worst loss of the series, I don't think.
So I don't, like it's not even the worst loss of the month.
That's Coors.
So, I'm chalking up Sunday to Coors.
Okay.
And good for them for getting their numbers in, but.
Coors Field giveth and Coors Field taketh away.
G- congratulations, you know, they avoided becoming the worst team in the National League.
So- Yeah there's that.
All right, you mentioned Friday.
Let's talk Friday, 'cause I was watching Friday out at a, at a brewery with a bunch of people and we were seeing this cover band I'm a big fan of.
The Giants are up, they're piling on at the end, and then the ninth inning comes and just ruins the night for me.
Like, not even in a way that the Giants felt like they blew anything.
Just the baseball gods interfering in some slapstick manner.
I, I, I, like, didn't even enjoy the band we went to see.
Sorry, Inverness 95.
Yeah.
I, let me tell you my situation.
So we're at, we're visiting some family.
I'm not on this trip.
We're, some family in Florida, my wife hasn't seen in a while, and also gonna take Max to Disney World and do that whole thing while we're out here.
Right.
So Thursday, because SFO is now the worst airport in this country.
we get delayed for three and a half hours after getting to the airport with a two and a half-year-old.
So- that was my Thursday, and here's the kicker.
This relative, lives in a place called Cocoa Beach, and I don't know if you're familiar with Florida geom- geography, but we're flying and I'm s- I'm, on the Wi-Fi and, you know, checking out the area, and guess what it's like five miles from is the, rocket that exploded.
So- No.
We're flying into Florida with an absolute lunatic of a two-year-old- who'd skipped his nap, and any parents will know that you miss the nap, your day's over.
and flying into a place where I have no idea what's gonna happen when we land, 'cause it looks like World War III just happened in Florida.
Mm-hmm.
Having said all of that, of what my Thursday was, Friday for the Giants was worse than that.
Yes.
So that's- Yeah that is my comparison.
So.
Somehow the Giants managed to one-up you- Somehow I was like, I don't feel so- in the worst possible day I was like, you know what?
I got a good night's sleep.
I don't feel so bad about things right now.
So- Yeah that was worse on Friday.
Yeah.
J- just, I, I mean, what, what was extra brutal was the way everyone was kinda like smiling and joking when that ball hit fir- b- first base.
Giants have a good cushion of a lead.
This is just silly stuff.
Yeah.
And it unraveled so quickly.
also I have to question the pitching choices, 'cause I think we've seen Coors Field enough to know what breaking balls do and don't do at that altitude.
Yeah.
It's, you know, it's an interesting one 'cause sometimes you, this has happened to Camilo a couple times over the last few years and I almost would just wanna be like, "Somebody else come deal with it."
Like it's, this has started to spin on you, and I think it can happen so fast at Coors that- Mm-hmm I, I would almost just wanna call anybody out there and, and be like, "Somebody else deal with this," because Caleb Kilian's been great this year and it's just not his night, and Coors- Yeah is not being kind to him.
But that was a horrible loss.
I'm, I'm not even kidding when I think Saturday was almost as bad, 'cause like you're borderline getting shut out at Coors Field.
Yes.
Yes.
so.
As we talk about what the offense is capable of doing on Sunday, and then just not doing anything until the game was completely over and just throwing some pity runs on the scoreboard in the eighth and ninth.
Yeah.
I mean, it, it'sYou know, they, they did what they had to do Sunday.
it is, I think we have to be fair to our audience.
They're 13 games under .500.
Yeah.
They were, they were a, a half-game out of last place, after Saturday's game, and they all of a sudden can't beat a team in their division.
So they You know, it, it's just been a really rough stretch.
I, yeah, I can't even like kinda wrap my head around it, to be honest with you.
Like, I You, you could've told me a world where this team has a losing record and this team has a, a rough year, and I don't think there's any way I could've wrapped my head around 13 games under .500 at the end of May.
Like- Yes that's just kind of insane.
And again, to your, to your point at the beginning, I'll give you this.
Like, you look at the lineup and you go, like, "Okay," like, "There's some dudes there."
So.
Jung Hoo Lee is all of a sudden looking incredible.
Devers is turning it on.
Some guys like Adames and, and even Eldridge got their, their home runs, their grand slams for the series.
Gilbert.
I, I think it's the really frustrating thing about this team is like it's not, they're not like the Nationals of two years ago or the Rockies last year or the White Sox.
Like, you see this lineup every day and you still kinda go like, "They should win most days."
Yes.
Like just, not, you know, not most days, but h- half the days.
So.
I think most days.
W- on paper, if these guys were playing how you'd expect them to play, this is a above .500 team, and that's what's so maddening is, is something is happening.
Yeah.
And Alex, this brings us to a question from a listener I think is worth just throwing out there.
Chris on Twitter asked, "Why did What did the Giants do to have the baseball gods hate them so much?"
'Cause at the end of the day, that feels like the only explanation for, for how this roster is performing and how this season has gone.
I think I have two answers.
I mean, someone might have sold their soul in 2021, 'cause this is the literal opposite of that.
Mm-hmm.
Like, everything went right for six months, and it seems like every single thing goes wrong, this season.
So maybe that, but I, I think if you're talking about actual like b- angering the base- g- I don't even know if it's angering.
Like, you know, balancing things out with the baseball gods, I'd probably point to 2012.
Like that- Yeah surviving that postseason and- Yeah, that- You know elimination game you don't get that Barry Zito run and just get to like run it back for a few years later.
There is some comeuppance for that, so.
Okay.
That's fair.
I've told this story many times.
It's in my book.
I watched him, like, try to figure out how to get minor leaguers out on the last day of spring training essentially, and then he's, like, beating Justin Verlander in game one of the World Series, so.
And getting hits on him.
Yeah, I mean, that, that is a, that is a you know what you And I, I know Brian Murphy and your dad got into it recently.
Like- Yeah like I do almost think, like, you do have to remember, like, there were those three title runs which were not, like, this wasn't the Dodgers of the last five years.
This was, bunts getting thrown into right field and- Mm-hmm Barry Zito being a hero and Rally Vogelsong and, you know, Madison Bumgarner, he's great, but, still some of what he did, like, defies belief.
So there's probably some, some reversal of fortune there.
Yeah.
At the, at the top.
The scales, when the scales tip overwhelmingly- Yeah one way, eventually they'll tip the other way.
I see what you're saying.
I think it, it, it If this is something to do with the baseball gods, it's not coming from something the Giants did, but it's coming from down south.
You look at not only are the Giants essentially, now I know they narrowly dodged it, but essentially the worst team in baseball, at least playing like they're the worst team in baseball, but at the same time their bitter rivals are not only in their, their golden era, but like a golden era that seems like it's never gonna end.
They're, the Dodgers have just become the ultimate team, the MLB darling, leaving the Giants behind in the dust rivalry-wise.
I think the Dodgers made some kind of dark magic deal with a, a demonic baseball entity and, and part of that wasn't just their success, but their, their foes to crumble before them in the form of the Giants.
Also a good explanation.
I think you have to look beyond, beyond traditional explanations for this team currently, 'cause it's- There's, there is no traditional explanation.
They It, it's unbelievable.
yeah, it just doesn't, it just doesn't make sense.
So, uh- It doesn't you know, again- No, it's- my whole thing is just like it's not like all these guys are, like If Devers pulled his hamstring and Logan Webb was out for the year and a bunch of guys in the bullpen had Tommy John, you could kind of The one thing that does make sense, I'll just finish that thought.
Like, you could kinda go like, "Okay, this is just everything's going wrong."
But they've just kinda been out there.
I, I will say the one thing that does make sense, and we should talk about, this, everybody in the world, you know, had concerns about the bullpen going into the season, and we did as well, and we talked about it a bunch and, there's been a lot of those games late where you just kinda go, even if it was one guy just for the We've talked about the Rodgers thing.
Like, even if you just plunked Rodgers in the eighth inning and went like- Mm-hmm "Figure out the seventh, figure out the ninth."
but I, I think equally fair is, like, even if you just found one guy who's been a closer before and, you know, doesn't have to be the top of the market.
We talked about it in the off-season.
I think my choice was Ryan Helsley.
I don't remember who your choice was, but- Oh there were guys like that who, just somebody who's, like, maybe a little bit more comfortable in the ninth.
Yeah.
Yeah, it, it, it Honestly, there, there's been so few closer situations that when they blow the ones they're in it does feel extra painful, but I just There has to be a better option.
Even, like, some of the arms they've tested in the past who have had big moments, like Spencer Bivens, I'd wanna see him get a try.
'cause what's happening right now is, is painful to watch.
Yeah, and Killian's, you know, he's been pretty good, but I'd Just so it's, it's, it's asking a lot of him.
And I, I went back and looked 'cause, actually a Giant Sock listener called me out for no reason on Friday.
But, I went back and looked.
I was like, "What were we talking about in February?"
And my season, my spring training preview-Um, I wrote about the bullpen and I wrote, "The easiest way to judge a manager most nights is on his bullpen management.
On that front, Vitello's bosses certainly haven't done him any favors.
On paper, the bullpen is clearly the weak spot of the team, which is a bit odd because it's always been a strength in San Francisco."
Yeah.
So this is, this is not patting myself on This is something everybody saw coming in the off-season, and it's a strange one.
And I don't think I've asked, and I think other people have asked and, I don't think there's ever been a good explanation for why they, they, they just kind of punted, um- Yeah on that group.
So.
Yeah.
It's, it's kind of like what we've said about 2021, where it feels like they and other teams have struck gold with young arms just hitting at the right moment enough times that they just expected that to happen.
Yeah.
And it- Well, I mean Killian's You know, you, you do kind of strike gold on Killian, Friday aside.
Um- Friday aside.
Friday aside.
But he's been good for most of the year.
Keaton Winn's been a really good story.
But I, I think our point was always, like, it's asking a lot to try to do that in every inning, like- Yeah late in the game.
So it's You, you can find those guys.
You can find a seventh inning guy, an eighth inning guy.
you can find a closer.
But to try to be like, "We're gonna find all of it," w- was asking a lot.
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
Let's get to our recurring Bryce Eldridge Watch segment.
There's been a lot of grumbling here on Giants Talk about both mostly Bryce Eldridge's usage, but also a little bit about his performance, and none of that needs to be discussed on this segment.
Because Bryce played in all three games at Coors Field, got hits in all three games and then Sunday, like everyone else, absolutely turned it on.
He did.
He has really turned it on.
first I, I'd sat down with Bryce on Wednesday.
So- Mm-hmm before the trip obviously the numbers weren't there yet, but you could kind of just see the, the at bat quality.
you could see the power and So I sat down and talked to him and, and we wanted to W- we ran it a little bit on, on air, but w- we'll run that here too just 'cause I, I think you can get a good sense of how he's feeling.
So here's Bryce for a few minutes and then you and I will come back.
All right, Bryce.
Your second stint in the big leagues now.
You're coming up on, coming up on a month back here.
What's the biggest takeaway for you from this second stint so far?
Yeah.
I think just, you know, continuing to get ABs under my belt and experience under my belt.
I'm starting to feel a lot more comfortable out here and, yeah.
I mean, obviously, I'm just happy to be here, happy to help the team in, in any way I can.
And, you know, I think if you look at the last week or two, I think my at bats compared to the previous- previously before that are getting a lot better, so definitely feeling better about it.
How have you been able to keep your rhythm with some of this inconsistent playing time and, and make sure that when you go out there you're ready?
Yeah.
I've just been working my butt off.
spending a lot of time with, with Wash, doing infield stuff every day and, staying, you know, consistent with my work there.
Obviously I haven't really been out at first much so, you know, just being ready for whenever, you know, they call me to, to go out there.
And in the cage just keep working with Hunter and OB down there and, continuing to just pick up things from veteran guys of how they kinda handle that and not playing consistently and, kind of the mindset that takes.
So, definitely just with experience, like I said, keeping it more comfortable.
Are you able to take the positives out of some of the exit velocity stuff?
Or, like, the ball you hit against Arizona that's 420 to, to dead center and would be out in 29 other ballparks, or is that still frustrating?
I mean, it's definitely frustrating, you know?
It's frustrating when, you know, I'm trying to get my feet wet in this league and, and trying to, you know, earn my keep here and but it's definitely, you know, obviously a good thing to look at.
I'm hitting the ball hard and my at bats are getting better.
I feel like for some reason in this league it feels like there's fielders on every inch of the field here, and I've had a little bit of bad luck.
But, you know, I, I think that'll all turn around once I get, you know, a full season of at bats under my belt.
A lot is remaining of you facing Yamamoto and Ohtani back to back early in your return here.
Is there anyone fr- either of those guys or anybody else that you've been hyped to face since you came back?
Ohtani.
I had faced Yamamoto last year.
Ohtani was definitely exciting and he got the best of me, so I'm looking forward to getting another chance at him.
But, yeah.
I mean, he's, he's one of if not the best player to ever live, so it's cool getting to face those guys.
And facing the best, you know, is, is what I wanna be.
You know, I wanna be up there with them and that makes me better.
So that was definitely a cool match up but, you know, looking forward to the match ups to come in the future.
Pretty happy what you were able to show against the lefty, just the approach and the swings you were able to get off.
Like, first time seeing a guy like that in the big leagues?
Yeah, 100%.
yeah, I'm, I'm comfortable against lefties.
I know there's kind of that stigma around left on left match ups and, I feel comfortable against lefties.
I think my first full year in pro ball was pretty rough, and last year definitely started to make some adjustments there.
And, you know, I think, I think my, my stats against lefties were better than they were against righties.
Obviously the at bats are a little bit less but, definitely comfortable against lefties and was happy to kinda show that at this level yesterday.
I'll finish with the defense.
You mentioned Wash. How much are you able to do here every single day just to get better at first base, even if you're starting at DH?
Yeah.
I mean, we still do a full routine.
I still get out there, do my picks every day, get moving around.
get his drills in, get our drill work in every day.
So, I'm doing the same amount if not even more, when I'm not playing.
So, I, I feel like, you know, I'm, I'm still continuing to get better there even though I haven't been in the game in about, like, two or three weeks now I think.
So, yeah, definitely feel like I've been getting consistent work there with Wash and getting better.
Thanks, Bryce.
So there's the 21-year-old.
I, I think I've tried to say it here, you know, a lot is made online of, like, he'll lose confidence doing this or he'll this or that.
I don't think he's ever lost confidence.
I think he's- Yeah been confident the whole time.
I think he's been excited to be up here the whole time.
The good thing now is they're, they've, the Giants have gotten on board with everybody else.
And we talked about that.
That was, like, 100 to nothing, 99 to 1 issue- Yeah where they're playing him every day and-Maybe it's related, maybe it's not.
but he's found his stride and, and it's- it's really cool to see.
And you see just how dangerous he is.
I, I feel like he could have, like, six homers.
and, like, if he was playing in the right parks.
So, uh- Well, yeah.
And I, I don't know why I didn't bring this up during the, probably 'cause we blew past Sunday, but I don't think I've seen more balls off the wall in one game- Yeah than I did at this series.
I don't know if that just speaks to this team's power.
Obviously, they got plenty over the fence this series as well.
But even in Coors, they're just banging stuff off the pads batter after batter.
Yeah.
But Eldridge did get his, in the, in the form of all great Giant sluggers, finally got his big Coors Field home run.
Yeah, and I think he's, he had a couple.
He's had some You know, at home he gets Oracled, obviously.
so I just think it's cool to see, like, he's, he's getting a shot and he's You know, people Like, we've joked about people rioting if he's out of the lineup, but people legitimately should now, 'cause he yeah, he needs to be in there every single day.
I mean, he is, his WRC+ is up to 116, and he's second on this team in slugging percentage behind Casey Schmitt.
So- All right now he just needs to be in there.
Like, I almost feel like, y- you know, you can start to maybe, as the season goes where it's headed, like, start to put some more responsibility on his plate and, and, you know, put him in those spots where he's, he's not hitting seventh.
He's- Mm-hmm he's hitting fourth, in a big spot.
He's maybe batting in the first inning.
So I think, they can do some of that.
This was a fabulous series for getting his confidence, getting his, Or maybe, maybe confidence isn't the right word, 'cause like you said, it doesn't seem like he's been struggling there.
But more so the fans' confidence in him and maybe the, the coaches', managers', organization's confidence in him reset.
I, I just hate that they're heading to what will be a really rough series from here.
Hopefully he managed to keep that up against his old pal.
Yeah, he should, you know I, I don't think you can take him out of the lineup at this point.
No.
But I think before you could A- and nobody outside of the building felt this way, but the Giants did have some of their arguments of what, what they felt, in some of the playing, playing time things.
But now, I mean, he's clearly one of your most dangerous hitters.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
All right.
Alex, let's move on to some moves the Giants have made.
The first move was a move that we've talked about on this podcast, and fans were clamoring for quite some time.
And that is a reassignment of third base coach Hector Borg.
we've talked about it before.
It's one of those roles where if you are noticed at all, you're probably not doing a great job, or at least you're not in a spot where, you want to be.
And we had quite a few more Hector Borg third base coach discussions than you'd like so far this season for just being two months in.
Yeah, you don't want people to really know your name in that role.
Exactly.
unless you've been doing it for a long time.
Yeah.
Or if you're, like, making highlight reels for just doing crazy windmills like Flan used to do.
Yeah.
I, I was surprised, just because of the timing of it, and I think I mentioned this before.
Like, it is He had a rough stretch.
I mean, his, his grandmother passed away and he had to go back- Mm-hmm to Dominican, miss four games.
Flew back and, you know, pretty quickly after that has the big mistake on Wednesday.
So I Teams don't generally do this, and I thought this is maybe one where it's And I, you know, talking to some people, I think there were a lot of discussions on Wednesday and Thursday about what to do.
Mm-hmm.
so this was a, a tricky one in a lot of ways, but just not, not the right fit for him.
and I, I will say, you know, he's, he's one of the nicest guys in the organization.
He's- Mm-hmm worked his ass off to get to this point, and I, I hope he has a second chapter in his career where he, this is not kind of what, this is not kind of what people remember, about him.
But- Yeah I, I, I think I I don't know if I've said this here, but I've talked to, like, other GMs who are like, "Yeah, we were gonna hire him away."
Like, maybe not to coach third or, but he has a good reputation within the game, so hopefully there's a bright future for him.
But it did just kind of reach the point where it felt like, something had to be done.
And- Yeah you know, I think there was a couple of those recently where they're just like, "You just gotta make a move.
This is, this team's drowning, and you, you can't beat- Yeah giveaway wins."
So I had a question for you about third base coach, I don't know, promotions to that role, I guess.
It feels, it seems like third base coach is one of those spots where you put a guy who's been in player development or been in coaching for a long time.
And I do know Borg had third base coach experience in the- Yeah Dominican League.
But it feels like what they need is someone with I don't, I don't care about player development experience.
I don't care about coaching experience.
I want a guy with an eyeball who can just tell whether to send or not send and not worry about anything else.
Yeah, I think the, you know, the interesting thing about this one is, he really was, like, kind of set up.
This was the role he should have.
Like, he's- Yeah been coaching in the minors for a long time.
He has coached third base in winter ball.
Talked to him about it in spring training, he's like, "I've seen much worse than I will see here.
I've coached third base, like, in..." You've seen those winter ball games.
So- Oh, yeah yeah.
So this, he was really set up, set up for this role and, and I think we've talked a lot about the talent of somebody like Mark Hallberg, who came up- and worked his way up, and this was maybe, this was the guy that they thought was next.
Like, a guy internally who was a, a good coaching candidate.
And it just never looked comfortable for him for whatever reason.
you know, he is a very excitable guy.
I wonder if that, that got into it a little bit.
Yeah.
You know, he would want to be aggressive and then some of that maybe backfired at times.
I, I'll just say, like, watching when Wotis was out there last weekend, just kind of went like, "Oh, it just looks really easy for him."
So, and even watching the last few days, like, it just, you know, it's obviously the muscle memory's there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Wotis obviously took over as interim third base coach.
Have you heard anything about a game plan for long-term?
Is Wotis gonna be the guy for 2026?
What, what would be the structure for finding this replacement here?It's a weird one.
I don't, you know, it's You'd think usually you'd go outside the organization to try to find someone who can be good at this, but you can't do that in season.
So- Yeah it's a weird one, and Wotus is obviously good at it, but he has he also retired five years ago, even though- Yeah he's at the ballpark every day.
But I don't think he ever intended to make every road trip.
So, interim for now, but we'll see where they go with this.
In Triple-A, don't they have players do it?
I think sometimes they're the manager.
so- Yeah.
Can we just have Tony out there or have, have Eric Haase out there at third temporarily?
Yeah.
I mean, I wonder if they give someone else internally, like an Alex Berg or a, um- Mm-hmm you know, Tyra a shot down the line.
Yeah.
But yeah, this was just a tough one.
It's, this is really rough.
it's one of those things that I feel like had to be done after the errors were made, but now that it has been done, I feel bad.
Yeah.
Again, I'll just You know, he's really, really nice guy, and I, I've said this here a lot.
Like, he's right there with Wash during all the infield drills.
So he, he's, he's working these guys pretty hard, and I think has been helpful in that regard too.
But just had to be done.
Other Giants moves.
The Giants call up Jonah Cox from Double-A, entirely skipping Triple-A, and he's already leading the team in batting average, OPS, and everything.
Hitting a astounding 141.
Yeah.
Position player.
So- Awful position player.
Weird one.
I think I saw he's like the first in, since like 1920 or something.
I don't know what, Let's see.
We had this, I saw this in our, in our Slack.
Jonah Cox is the only Giants batter since 1920 with a hit in his first career plate appearance, and that plate appearance was against a position player.
And that's as far back as our, our, stats company can check.
So- history.
Making history.
what did we think of this move?
Certainly wasn't something I expected.
I know you have your eye on the, the farm system a little more keenly than I do.
Probably, have your eye on pretty much everything a little more keenly than I do.
But this caught me completely out of left field.
I was surprised, because you, you go back, it's like, you know, Matt Duffy did this a long time ago.
Miguel Gomez in 2017 was the last one to do it, and it's a really interesting one, and it's one that I don't think there's gonna be a middle ground on this in a few weeks.
There's- Mm-hmm.
Either this is, you know, it sounds like he's gonna start Monday.
Either this is lightning in a bottle and like, you know, something, a desperate speed element that they need.
you know, we should give this He w- they got him in the Ross Stripling trade a couple years ago.
He's not really much of a prospect.
just a speed guy, good a- good defensive outfielder, and this year just kind of took off.
he was hitting 400 in, in Double-A, so very impressive.
just it, to make that jump, like you don't see that much for anybody, and you don't see it- Yeah in the Giants organization.
And they have made such a big deal about being slow with guys.
And we've talked about some of the guys last year who you're like, "It feels like time for a promotion."
And I mean, we, we saw the Bryce Eldridge thing this year.
So to jump this guy, it's, he better play.
I think that's what I would say.
Like, don't jump him past Triple-A to, to come sit on the bench.
Yeah.
Is, is one of the things here that his main tool being speed, speed isn't really something you develop in Triple-A or even in the majors.
You have it or you don't, and this guy certainly has it.
Yeah.
I think, you know, the, the thing about him is like he's, he hasn't really been a, a big time, he hasn't at all been a big time prospect.
Mm-hmm.
he's a little bit old for his league.
He's turning 25 this season.
So even in Triple-A he would've been on the older end.
he is a, a speed guy.
And yeah, the speed's gonna be there no matter what.
So I, I don't think, like this isn't, this is much different than a, than an Eldridge.
This is different than like a, you know, even like a Jess Rodrguez.
you're not, there's not, I don't think there's much risk of stunting the development.
At the same time, they do keep making these moves and it's like Eldridge and Rodrguez come up, and now we see Rodrguez barely plays.
Mm-hmm.
and Barracotto's here.
Doesn't really play.
Jonah Cox is here.
Like, is he gonna play or is it gonna be, you know, Drew Gilbert for a few days and then Harrison Bader comes off the IL and you're like, "Okay, we're back to off to Triple-A you are."
And- Yeah the concern there then is like, you know for me it's not as much development, it's just like, it's almost a waste.
Like we, we make the Wade Mekwer jokes, but they did start Wade Mekwer's clock before they had to.
Yeah.
And at some point you lose him because he's, he's here.
And, yeah, it's not the ideal development path, but they felt like they needed the help and obviously Bader's hurt and, sounds like he can help.
I, I, I guess the fear would be you just look up and it just feels like they're kind of throwing these guys out.
Like, "Hey."
Mm-hmm.
"Lost two games, here comes Jonah Cox."
Like, "Rough road trip, here come Eldridge and Rodrguez.
rough times, here comes Barracotto."
So- Yeah there's been a little bit of that this year I think.
And- I- is his role on this team basically how he was used on Sunday where someone gets on base in the seventh, eighth, ninth, or even the runner on second to start extra innings and boom, put Jonah Cox in and that's the first we're seeing him or do you see him starting games?
I would like to see him start for, for a week here and, you know, maybe not every day, but just give him a shot here 'cause look, I mean, it's been a bit of a struggle for Drew.
Like, he has a 280- Yeah on base percentage.
he doesn't hit lefties at all.
So, I'd like to see Jonah get a little bit of a shot here to Like, he's somebody we don't know a lot about.
He's kind of been a pop-up guy this year.
Yeah.
and maybe do catch lightning in a bottle.
But, or maybe at least feel better about th- that decision if you have to send him down to Triple-A.
You're like, "Well, he was gonna be there anyway, so-" Mm-hmm "now you're on the 40, man."
But I, I think the fear is you don't wanna look up and be likeOkay, now he's on the 40, man, and- Yeah you know, those spots aren't invaluable.
Like it's- Yeah you, you can always, you can always claim guys late in the year or rule five draft, things like that.
You need those spots.
Well, he had a cheering section at the game.
It was great to see.
Family was going nuts.
he got playing time.
He got to touch Major League dirt, as they put it on the broadcast.
and got his big double off a position player.
So all around good debut for Jonah Cox.
We'll be keeping our eye on him.
A couple of other moves, Alex.
Ryan Borucki, DFA'd, and Tyler Maile heading to the IL.
Apparently he's hurt.
Is he?
I What, what do we think about apparently he's hurt?
We, we found out he's hurt, so.
I think they- Alex, you boy.
I think they very clearly pushed Logan back to start at Coors Field so they could take one last look at those two guys, and then made a decision.
Yeah.
And so, and the decision was he's hurt.
All right.
So, That makes a lot of sense.
I wish him well in his healing process.
Look, everybody after the first day of spring training has something, but Yeah, that's basically pitching, right?
Is you, every day you hurt yourself, and then every day you heal.
It was very convenient for them that they- Yeah needed this decision to be made.
Yeah.
And it was.
And it was.
and then Ryan Borucki just j- was that a, a couldn't do both sides, basically?
That's a while.
I mean, he still was very good against lefties.
550 OPS against lefties.
it was almost 1100 against righties.
Which in- Yeah in, you know, 10 years ago, he's Javy Lpez.
now- That doesn't exist anymore just doesn't exist anymore.
Yep.
Yep, yep.
All right.
Well, that's what we have for the past few days in the world of Giants.
Very disappointing series overall, but with enough fool's gold in there that it gave us something to at least, pretend to be happy about until we head into Milwaukee.
We'll talk about that Milwaukee series and cover some mailbag questions.
But first, Giants Talk is presented by Mancini's Sleepworld.
Mancini's is now the official sleep partner of the San Francisco Giants.
Get moving towards better sleep and save up to $1,200 on top brands at the Mancini's Memorial Day sale.
Plus, your purchase is backed by their 365 night comfort guarantee, which gives you a whole year to try your mattress and make sure it's giving you the comfort you deserve.
Stop by or visit online to see what's currently available.
Okay, Alex.
We have mailbag questions here today.
As always, listeners, if you have questions for us, send them to Alex or myself, wherever you can find us on social media.
We will add them to our list and tackle them, when we're able to fit them in.
Our first question today is from Patrick.
We've been getting a lot of questions like this, so I think it's, it's about time we address this.
Patrick says, "I'm curious about who our trade pieces really are, via contract situation and performance."
I think there's two obvious ones, right?
Yeah.
Two obv- like, so obvious that it would be shocking if they were a Giant in August.
I mean, you, you don't even have to, like, be as plugged in as, or paying as much attention as us.
You know, Robbie Ray, last year of his contract.
That's, those are automatic for teams like this.
everybody always wants pitching.
Yes.
Every always.
And veteran pitching, and somebody who could, when Robbie's right, he can slide into a playoff rotation.
So- Mm-hmm that's a big one.
And then Luis Reyes is having an incredible season.
And, you know, it's a bit more of a niche thing because you have to find a contender that needs a second baseman.
but he's been great.
He's been unbelievable.
And I, I will continue to stand on this.
He has been incredibly fun to watch.
He has exceeded all expectations.
And I think they have to trade him.
They just have to.
So it's- Yeah you have to add to your farm system and, and, you know, maybe call him in the off-season if you really feel that strongly about it.
But there's also a lot of other guys who are gonna have to be in that mix, including Casey Schmitt, by the way.
Yeah.
so yeah.
But honestly, I think Arraez could be in the trade situation even if Casey Schmitt wasn't this out of- Yeah nowhere golden opportunity here in San Francisco.
But it really softens the blow having this guy who can play the position well, just ready to, to slot into a regular position.
Look, you struck gold, and he's well-liked around the league.
So I mean, it just kind of has to be done for the good of the organization.
And then I'll- Yeah well, I'll say, you know, Bader's hurt right now.
He's been traded a couple times at the deadline in his career.
I You can generally move relievers if you want to.
Mm-hmm.
And, and they do have some, they have some guys, especially I think some lefties you can I- it sounds crazy, like this bullpen's struggling lately, but there's also, like you mentioned Bivens, like, Tristan Beck just came back up.
Ryan Walker is at triple A.
At some point you gotta take another look at him.
So, Blake Tidwell's there.
He can help down the line.
You can take a look at him.
there's some guys pitching really well in double A who could maybe break in as bullpen guys.
So they could pretty easily fill that group out in the second half if, if they trade a few relievers.
Yeah.
Now I, I would be curious if we could talk a little bit about the kind of bigger names.
The, the rebuild kind of trades.
Who does not have a tr- a no trade clause?
Well, it's just Chapman and, and Arra- and Adames who have them.
but- Okay.
So it'd be Detwiler.
Yeah.
We already mentioned the heartbreak that could be- Yeah Logan Webb if it came to that, and then your Casey Schmitts and everyone else.
Yeah, I mean the big conversation beyond what we've talked about, and, and it's just Logan Webb.
It's what he Do you wanna just tear it all down?
But- Mm-hmm I don't think they've ever shown that they want to, so- I, I can't imagine that happening from a personnel.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's, in moves like, you know, things like Jonah Cox today, that is a, like, stop the bleeding in 2026 type of move.
Um- Yeah so yeah.
I can't imagine that'll happen either.All right.
From Andrew: Luisa Gries has been probably the highlight of the season so far.
With Casey Schmitt starting to play games in left field, could the Giants trade Eliott Ramos so they can re-sign Gries without blocking Schmitt's future?
All right, Alex, just big picture, what do you think about this universe where Casey Schmitt is moving to full-time left fielder?
I don't love it.
He's, it's- He, he is, he's a very good third baseman by trade, and to just fully give up on all of his defensive skills and plop him in left field I don't like.
and I also think it's important with the Arias stuff to realize, like, I, I have no idea what his market's gonna be like.
I mean, obvi- he comes to the Giants.
There was a story recently about Wilmer Flores that said, like, the team in Mexico that signed Wilmer was trying to sign Arias in the off-season.
So I have no idea what his market looks like after a year like this, and whether teams will say, "Okay, go do it again."
But I, you know, you look at a few of the recent ones.
I mean, Nico Hoerner signs a six-year deal.
It's, it's a massive deal.
He's, he's a better, more consistent player.
But it's a six-year deal for someone similarly aged.
Tommy Edman, a, a little bit of a different situation, 'cause Dodgers are the Dodgers and they just keep guys who they like.
Yeah.
But he got five years and $74 million.
So i- if you are Arias and, and his agent, you're not looking at, like, a two-year, $20 million deal in the off-season.
You're trying to, you're trying to do something special here for your, you know, your, the entire Arias family.
Yes.
so- This is ab- that's kind of, I think that's important as well here when, when you talk about these things 100, I think.
If you split the difference there, 100 would be, 100% be in play.
And also, when we talk about Arias not being a fit long-term on this team, I don't think it's ever been Casey Schmitt's future that we're worried about blocking.
Yeah.
It's the leagues of other middle infielders who are, who are ready to hatch in the next- Yeah three, four years when this long-term deal that Arias is inevitably gonna want and get, it overlaps.
Yeah.
And that's the point here.
I think he's 29, so he's not looking for a, "Oh, I'll come back next year and help you guys out."
Yeah.
he's looking for his long-term deal.
And he should.
He's earned it.
And he just went through a rough free agency, and a lot was said about him, and he should get his, his long-term deal.
Um- Yeah but there's guys, as you said, waiting to hatch, and there's also a Willie Adames conversation at some point.
And- Mm-hmm so yeah, this is, I think, why we're so adamant about this, as much fun as he's been.
Yes.
It's been really It's been a weird situation where I watch him out there like, wow, what a fun experience, but I've already written him off to end the season with another franchise.
Yeah.
One more question today, and then we'll talk Brewers.
Danny says, "There's been a lot of talk around not signing and not naming an official closer.
Do you think with Randy Rodriguez potentially making his return in 2027, that could be the reason why there has been skepticism and pushback on signing a solid closer?"
No, I think, you know, you never wanna count on someone coming back from injury.
And, I think they genuinely felt like, you know, there's limited money to go around, and, and we will spend it on the rotation, we'll spend it in center field and second base and fill these holes, and, we can figure out the bullpen.
And they just kinda haven't.
So I don't think, I think Randy's a, a big part of next off-season as you sit there and go, "All right, who, you know, who's part of the mix now?"
and I, I think it's important the rest of this season to figure out, how good is Keaton Wynn?
are you keeping Killian, and how good is he?
And, you know, what do you actually have in, like, an Eric Miller?
And who's there in triple A?
Like, is Blade Tidwell a starter, or is Blade Tidwell a future eighth inning guy?
because you do have Randy coming back, and he's a big part of it, whether he is actually your closer or he's, he's kind of in that super reliever role that he was in when he was- Mm-hmm an all-star.
But, they need to find some guys around him.
'cause also he will be coming back from a major surgery, and it's gonna have a long time.
But you, you can't just be like, "There's your guy, ninth inning solve for 27."
Yeah.
Yeah, I know there was a lot of talk about Edwin Diaz in the off-season, but don't forget he got a massive deal to go to LA.
Yeah.
It, it felt like a pittance, just because the Dodgers were not in any real need of it, and they can throw around money doing whatever they want.
But I think he's making, like, 30, 33 million a year for his contract down there.
And I That's Giants, Giants have never been the team to spend that on a closer.
No.
So they need to figure some guys out the rest of this year.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, there's our mail bag questions for the day, Alex.
Let's take a look at what's happening as the Giants head to the great state of Wisconsin.
Four game series, and it's a very good team.
Giants, by the way- Yeah have the toughest strength of schedule in June.
So.
Which is bizarre, 'cause didn't they have essentially the toughest leading up to this?
Feels like every month.
Every There's a lot of Braves, a lot of Braves in, in June.
they have Landon Root versus Shane Drohan.
Trevor McDonald in the rotation now versus old friend Kyle Harrison.
And then it's Webb and Houser the next two days versus TBD.
Okay.
So they miss the Miz on Sunday, which is- All right.
So there's that.
But narrative wise, they do not miss Kyle Harrison.
That's obviously- Yeah gonna be the biggest talking point, the biggest thing we're all keeping our eye on Tuesday's match up.
Trevor McDonald, at least we have, you know, the, the, the new face versus- Yep the old face.
but Kyle Harrison absolutely dealing since he joined the Brewers.
Six in one in 10 appearances with a, a just about one and a half, a 1.57 ERA.
Alex, do you have any insight into, like, what he's doing different down there?
I've seen a lot of stuff about slight changes in, in arm slots or slight changes in grip.
Yeah.
Is it just they, they figured something out with him?
Or could this hypothetically have been-What he looked like in 2026 on the Giants if he was still on the team They made some changes.
Milwaukee's really good at that.
I know he's excited to be there and working with their people.
they made some slight changes.
The, you know, the He finally found that third pitch.
He figured out the changeup, which some of the- Mm-hmm the Birdsong stuff has been overblown.
When I talked to him this spring, he kind of was like, "I," you know, "figured it out a different way."
he did.
Yeah.
He didn't see it.
He didn't throw it.
but I think the important thing and the thing that always sticks out to me is, like, he was the number one left-handed pitching prospect in baseball.
I will never forget for as long as he's pitching his first home start where we're just like- "Holy crap.
Here, Giants got another one."
Yeah.
Well- Local boy does good.
Yeah.
So he has kind of been this guy before, and remember he's like a first round talent that they bought out of his UCLA deal.
So this is who Kyle was supposed to be, and I think the tough thing for him is there were some injuries, and he really just You know, last spring he's not feeling great, and then he gets sick and loses some weight and working his way back, and before you know it he gets traded.
So- Yeah and then the Red Sox kind of throw him through a two-month boot camp to try to- like, like get him back on track.
I think this is who he was always going to be.
Um- Mm-hmm maybe not quite this good.
There's some Brewers pixie dust mixed in there.
They're incredible at what they do.
But Kyle's really talented, and he was, again, like one of the top prospects in baseball.
this is who he was supposed to be when he matured.
Yeah.
It's, it's gonna be cool to see him face off against a guy like Bryce Eldridge, some of the other young players that he might have shared a locker room with.
And ob- obviously he shared a locker room with the, a lot of these big league guys as well.
Yeah.
And the Devers versus him matchup, the true test of what, who won the trade is what that at-bat will be named.
a lot- We- A lot of storylines around that one Tuesday game.
We need Devers and Eldridge in that lineup.
Absolutely, yes.
So we need all those storylines.
Absolutely, yes.
We will be back after that series.
This is, as you mentioned, a four-game series, so we're gonna drop a Giants Talk episode.
What are we thinking, Thursday, Friday?
Maybe.
Probably Friday morning we'll drop it.
Okay.
Four-game series.
Um- Yeah yeah.
So maybe we'll, we'll wait until after that's done.
But- All right.
Giants- a rare Friday morning pod, but.
Exactly.
A little treat to end your week next week.
we'll be back.
don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Go give us a glowing review.
send the Giants all the good vibes you can as they head into a really, really tough matchup in Milwaukee.
And, Oh, and buy Alex's book.
