Is Houston the Right Home for the Connecticut Sun?
Zena and Layshia open their conversation with the return of Aja Wilson and Napheesa Collier to USA Basketball, discussing how Team USA is shifting its focus toward developing younger talent and moving away from a more exclusionary approach. They then dive into the transition of the Connecticut Sun to the Houston Comets, highlighting the excitement surrounding the Comets return and the challenges facing the Suns fanbase. The duo also explores the role of NBA ownership in providing resources and stability, along with the cultural differences between Connecticut and Houston. We wrap things with a story on how WNBA players connected with a key figure in negotiations. No Offseason is a part of The Athletic Podcast Network: 00:00 Intro 01:29 Aja Wilson and Napheesa Collier rejoin USA Basketball camp in Phoenix 02:41 Inside USA Basketballs talent development strategy 05:19 How important is JuJu Watkins invitation to USA training camp? 07:43 How the World Cup team differs from the Olympic team 11:50 Why veteran leadership is vital for Team USA 22:29 Is the move from Connecticut to Houston a good move for the WNBA? 28:23 What might Sun fans think about the franchise relocation? 33:46 Does it matter that the WNBA is returning to Houston? 37:36 Inside the ownership of the NBA and WNBA 43:59 How Connecticut and Houston differ culturally Related links and articles: by Sabreena Merchant by Mike Vorkunov by Mike Vorkunov Follow and listen to the audio podcast: Get in touch! Leave a comment wherever youre listening, or email us at NoOffseason@TheAthletic.com Show Links: -YouTube: @No-Offseason -Instagram: @tanooffseason [ -TikTok: @no_offseason [ Credits: -Zena on BlueSky: @zenakeita -Sabreena on BlueSky: @sabreenajm -Chantel on BlueSky: @chanteljennings -Produced by Taneka Burrell -Executive Produced by Andrea B. Scott Visit the Yahoo Women's Sports Hub: Full Episodes Playlist: Shorts Playlist: Thumbnail: Todd Warshaw / Staff / Getty Images Sport via Getty Images
Video Transcript
Hello everyone, and welcome to No Off Season, presented by Sam's Club.
I'm Zena Cada.
I'm Layshia Clarendon.
And today on the show we're talking about a major shakeup in the W. The Connecticut Sun are on their way to becoming the Houston Comets starting in 2027.
We're gonna dive into what this means for the league, the players, the fans, and what role the NBA has in all of this.
But first, a couple of programming notes.
If you're not already subscribed to the show, you know what you're supposed to be doing.
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We've got a live stream coming from, Phoenix ahead of the championship game, looking at what we could be looking at for each team on Sunday afternoon.
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Bah, bah, bah.
Yeah.
Boom.
I'm in there.
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I'm in there.
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Now, before we talk about the second coming of the Houston Comets, first, let's talk about Team USA.
This was an interesting thing, Layshia.
I saw this a- announcement that the, next Team USA, camp is happening, and it's happening in Phoenix, and some big names are back at camp: A'ja Wilson, Napheesa Collier.
She'll-- The two of them will be joining six players that are new to this cycle.
WNBA vets Sabrina Ionescu, who has obviously been with Team USA, but Stephanie Dolson, Azura Stevens, Brittney Sykes, Kayla Thornton- and rising NCAA junior Mikaylah Blakes of Vanderbilt.
She's gonna be the only, outside of her and Juju Watkins, the only active NCAA players.
Paige Bueckers is back, while Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, Kelsey Plum, and a couple other players are gonna be sitting this one out.
Now, Lay, you've been a part of the Team USA World Cup squad and that, that whole system, 'cause it's really a system- Mm-hmm in the past.
I'm curious, when you think about some of these new names, like we didn't even mention like Monique Billings- Yeah being a part of this, right?
the Kayla Thorntons of the world, the Brittney Sykes, some of these people that have been around the W space for a very long time and have been, you know, prominent names, but not necessarily Team USA prominence.
Mm-hmm.
So this is really cool to be able to see, some new names being injected in here.
What do you think Sue Bird is trying to do here with all the different versions of these training camp rosters?
I mean, I think it's pretty clear to me that they're looking to develop talent.
That's been one of the biggest critiques of USA Basketball over the years has been like, of course, it's the best of the best, it's the top echelon, it's the highest level you could possibly reach in women's basketball.
But it too often has been really exclusionary, it's been too political at times, where if you didn't have the name, you were never gonna see a Mo Billings name in there, right?
A person who- Right didn't come from like the biggest, best program.
you've seen people do it a little bit over the years, but this to me clearly is a shift in like, let's develop younger talent, let's actually make sure we're thinking about the future.
There's clearly different generations here.
and so it's no surprise to me that a person like Sue is taking her experience being a part of USA Basketball, although she was always one of the names included, like she was- Right never the one left out, to think differently and to think bigger.
That's something Sue is really good at, something she did with the CBA over years, and seeing her leadership internally I think is very clearly reflected through USA Basketball.
And I think bringing the fun back to basketball.
Like the- you see them at camps, it looks like they're enjoying themselves.
There's more of a levity part of USA Basketball.
When you're the best of the best, like there's pressure, but you should be having fun, right?
Like, why are we doing all this?
Like, we should be enjoying it, getting to be around, the best players.
So I like seeing the different rosters.
I love seeing Fee back on the court.
that was a big one to me.
I think the point guard battle's gonna be really fascinating of who actually makes the squad, like who is the actual- squad.
but camps just give you opportunity, right?
These camps happen periodically.
They're a chance to show up.
They're a chance to learn the culture of USA Basketball, to put on that jersey.
It's always tucked in when you come to the circle.
There's like these little things that they do.
You always wear the same color ankle braces.
Like people don't wear headband.
Yep.
Like there's these little things.
Right.
And so you're getting people to learn to be a part of the system and to be a part of the bar of excellence.
And across the W, like there's different teams and cultures, so like there, not everybody comes from knowing how to be a part of like a top-notch level of excellence and what it takes and the little details.
1,000%.
When the three letters on the front of your jersey are literally all that matters.
And you can tell this is why they've had the standard of excellence is because everyone buys in, and there is a l- a process to that buy-in that you're laying out.
one of the things that's very interesting is Juju Watkins, again, is gonna be a part of these camps.
And we know that she's been rehabbing, since her, her knee injury a year or more than a year ago.
Mm-hmm.
but she's still being invited to these camps.
She's gonna be non-participant within this camp, but how important is it that you have the likes of a Juju Watkins still getting invited, still being asked to be in the, the space, and being included in this?
It's brilliant from, one, from a marketing perspective - Yeah two, from a talent development perspective, because she's the future, right?
She's gonna come back, she's gonna get healthy, she's gonna do what she needs to do.
So it would be silly that she wouldn't be a part of it, and I think it just speaks to, again, Sue and the committee being smart enough to s- understand the bigger picture.
So you want Juju there.
You want her seeing what it's like.
It's valuable to sit there and watch.
It's, even if you're on the court or not, or shooting around on the sideThat pervasiveness of like the culture, and you're living and breathing it is really smart 'cause you've gotta be thinking what five, eight, 10 years ahead of like who's our next generation, right?
Chelsea Gray is not gonna play forever.
Like she's- Mm-hmm still really good, but she's on the back end of her career.
The Kelsey Plums of the world still in their prime, but in four years, right, that's starting to shift.
And so how do you think about the legacy of USA Basketball?
And I think like Sue thinks about it differently now too from a marketing perspective with these younger players and what they can continue to do to grow the game.
It is interesting that Sue Bird is behind this, and also is switching it up in such a way because she quite literally, as you mentioned, she was never someone that's name, whose name was never, was al- like left out of the mix.
And I think there are two, quote unquote, "snubs" that everyone can remember.
Nneka Ogwumike being left out of the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, and there was also Candace Parker's.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, Candace has had her thoughts on both of those actually, not only her experience and others, but there was always a question of politics, you know, of, of the choices obviously made by GMs, but particularly also who's coaching.
Geno Auriemma being at, at the helm of things, Char Reese has been at the helm of things.
Now there's Kara Lawson, and Kara Lawson doesn't quite have affinities in the way that those, those previous coaches might have.
And Sue Bird, having seen the positives and the benefits and also maybe the negatives of that e- element of politics, it's really cool to now see, her being like, "Let's go a different route."
now what's interesting is we know that a World Cup roster and formulating a World Cup roster is very different than an Olympics roster.
So you're seeing a little bit more leeway here with the World Cup roster.
How does it work in terms of that mindset of, going into these tryouts, going into these training camps- for a World Cup roster, Olympics roster, your expectations as a player?
I mean, expectations as a player when you show up for USA Basketball are always like, you better bring it- Yeah, yeah because you step on that court.
Like it doesn't matter if it's a r- if it's a World Cup, if it's a camp where we're playing exhibitions or we're playing the college players, it- as soon as you put that jersey on, there's just a standard and a level.
But I think from just the reality of it, when you're in a World Cup, you're, you don't, your star stars don't have to play.
It's always an opportunity for Team USA to continue to build, to build chemistry- Mm-hmm to build trust, to like try on pieces.
So you want like a good amount of your main players who will probably be on the Olympic roster.
But injuries, people are exhausted, off years, that's where you'll see maybe like, your main stars aren't a part of it, right?
Sure.
And I was a part of the 2018 World Cup squad, so it's like I was on that team.
I like got in where I fit in.
Pow.
Like- playing great, coming off my All-Star year in 2017, wasn't gonna be a problem, right?
Was able to fit in, was a chemistry person.
And so there just the reality there is more wiggle room.
In women's basketball, like the Olympics is the pinnacle.
In soccer, the World Cup's the pinnacle.
It's the opposite.
So for us, the World Cup is like, you know, and I have feelings about this 'cause I wanted to be an Olympian.
I was like a almost, like I was a gold medal- Yeah world champion, but not an Olympian.
so it was close.
Okay, first of all, yes, yes.
Right.
It's like, "Ugh."
I am applauding here.
shout out for that casual drop.
Gold, gold medal right there.
Yes, yes, yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
But like it's right, it's different.
It's like that is our like it's our soccer World Cup.
It's our biggest moment.
And so in that way, there's also the way it connects to sponsorships and deals.
Like when you're an Olympian, like that stays with you forever.
It's a different world.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's different.
It hits, it's a different bar, and so of course, people in the Olympic, it's gonna be the best of the best of the best.
Like it's- Yeah just so hard to reach that, and I think that something people didn't talk about enough with the snubs was Tamika Catchings, who I love and adore, she came out and announced- Ooh that she would retire after that Olympic.
And did Catch deserve to be there?
This is that question of like how do you generationally continue- Yeah to, to move through, developing young talent and players who put in their time and energy, right?
So like and Catch played a different role on that team.
She was willing-- She came off the bench.
She wasn't the main player, and so I think Sue having lived through all of that snubs and seeing, it's like she's thinking big picture, "How do I develop talent?"
Right.
Right?
Like they didn't- Yeah Diana played in the last Olympics.
I was gonna s- Like people argued- I was literally- should she have done that?
Yeah.
Yes.
I was literally going to say the Diana Taurasi point, is very similar to the Catch point of you are a veteran, and there is that element of bridging the two worlds together in such high-stakes competition.
You need someone that's been there, done that before, and Sue Bird saw the benefits of that.
and y- but we also saw the out, the outcries about Caitlin Clark not being on the roster and people thinking that those minutes could have been Caitlin Clark being, having the opportunity to see up close what Team USA, what that experience is like.
Whether she played or not, it could have been an opportunity.
Either way, most likely Caitlin Clark will be on this next Olympics roster.
She definitely has had op- o- obviously the opportunity to play for Team USA, in the qualifying tournament, recently, and we imagine that she will continue to be in this camp, not this camp coming up in Phoenix, but in this ecosystem of Team USA.
I kinda wanna close on that note before w- we, we move on to our, our next part of the conversation about just like that veteran balance because people-- We talk about this all the time, veterans in the locker room, so important, right?
You wanna put the veterans beside the, the rookies' lockers so they can kind of like, "Chill out.
It's okay.
You know, don't get too much in your head if you had a bad practice, if you had a bad game," and someone that just kind of levels things out.
You were that veteran, in the W at the end of your career.
You've seen it.
You've had a veteran.
You had Tamika Catchings, oh my God- I know as your veteran, which is crazy.
what is that, how, what is the importance of that from a player's perspective on these high-level stakes?
Like, or high-level stages, excuse me.
What does that really mean?I mean, it's everything 'cause experience is everything, and you're a veteran, you've been through it, so you need those people who understand the moment, understand the pressure, understand how to handle the pressure in the moment.
The global stage is something like, you can't describe it in terms of what it's like to go travel across the world to play in the biggest moment of your life.
Um- Wow.
So people who are just unfazed, right?
And you can look to them like, "What are we doing?
Okay, got it."
That's like- Yeah.
Yeah.
Everything's different.
The way you get drug tested, like it's just a different beast, and it only happens so often, so it's not like there's a ton of time to even be getting that experience, right?
It's not like you get-- there's an Olympics every year, and so that's why these training camps are so important, like getting people in, getting them to be like a veteran of USA Basketball to understand the culture.
Yeah.
So veterans are everything.
I was so fortunate and blessed to like walk into my rookie career with veterans like Tamika Catchings and Breanna January, like who just told you And there's other people who walk into s- locker rooms or teams, and I'm like, "Dang, I see why you kind of don't get it 'cause your veterans were kind of trash."
Like I'm like- And that's so real.
And that impacts- Yeah the player as a rookie.
Yep.
It's like, oh, you don't even know what leadership looks like because like you didn't have access to it.
Like, and I think we sometimes blame those players, and I look and I'm like, wow.
Like, yes, you're accountable for yourself.
Like, you haven't had a good coach, you haven't had good modeling.
Like where you land, your foundation matters.
When you get into the league, of course, where you came from college, we know we could rank them based on who you were coached by and what program you were on.
But when you come into the W, it matters who your foundation is, how you, how you were, like groomed and taught and the things you learned that carries with you.
Yep.
So if you had a shaky foundation, like, or you had a solid foundation- Yep things I learned like helped me build on.
It helped me be prepared for that e- that World Cup roster.
Oof.
That's amazing.
And you know what?
That's something for all of you listening, you know, as we go into this next WNBA season, which is happening.
This is so exciting.
pay attention.
Yes, ma'am.
Pay attention to the, the rookies that are coming in and who takes them under their wing.
You know, who kind of helps them kinda get adjusted because it is an under rep- it's, it's an underrecognized and appreciated role, but it's huge.
And it's funny, as you were talking about like, you know, chilling out and like understanding the pressure, I'm immediately brought back to a press conference I was sitting in with, the Warriors, covering the Golden State Warriors, and Klay Thompson was asked about a comment that his rookie, Brandon Podziemski, had made a moment before he got into the press conference about like he was-- they had lost the game, and Brandon Podziemski was putting it all on him, like, "Oh, man, it was on me," et cetera, et cetera.
And like Klay was doing his thing where he like folds up the, the box score into a paper airplane, just goes, "Man, rookie, you gotta chill."
"You gotta chill."
And it was just like such a calm moment of just being like, it's a long-- he said like, "It's a long season."
And it reminded you of, you know, teams like, that have the likes of a, a Sue Bird, right?
that have the likes of Tamika Catchings, that have the likes of-- thinking about veterans now, Tina Charles, Elizabeth Williams, Bre- Brianna Jones.
Like I'm th- thinking about people across the organiz- or across the association in W where-- that people have said like it's an, it's nice to see their face.
Mm-hmm.
Or it's just nice to know that they're, they're calm, so I feel calm.
Yeah.
They remind you it's a long season.
Yeah.
You gotta chill.
It's fine.
You're good.
that's, that's fascinating, and we'll see- Yep what happens with this camp and, and how everything continues to go with Team USA.
But appreciate you giving your thoughts, and on the other side of this break, I got more questions about the Connecticut Sun now becoming the Houston Comets.
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All righty.
Our listeners will remember the sale of the Connecticut Sun has been a whole drama.
They were put up for sale by their owner, the Mohegan tribe, and nearly sold twice, once to a Boston Celtics minority owner who wanted to move the team to Boston, and the other time to a former Milwaukee Bucks owner who wanted to move the team to Hartford.
Neither of those deals were approved by the WNBA, and it is worth saying that those deals were for allegedly more money than they actually sold.
They sold eventually to the, Fertitta family, okay, the owner of the Houston Rockets, for three hundred million.
That is a record fee, but allegedly these other owners from Boston and Milwaukee were offering three twenty-five or more.
Oh.
The W said, "No, no, no.
We ultimately have the right to say, you know, where, where teams are relocated to."
And these new owners, they've already said, Layshia, the team will be called the Houston Comets.
There is no- There's no thought about it, right?
When Cleveland was announced, people were like, "Oh my God, are the Rockers back?"
Like there was a little bit, you know, still trying to figure out what's going on there.
Nope.
Houston said they will be the Houston Comets.
They literally honored-- We saw Sheryl Swoopes.
Tina Thompson was honored the other night at the Houston Rockets game.
This is gonna be a throwback to one of the W's original franchises, one of its first dynasties.
Remember, four titles.Or yes, okay So good And they will start playing in Houston in 2027.
So saga seems like it's coming to a close, but there's still a lot to get into.
So Lay, when you first heard about this officially being s- you know, this Connecticut Sun officially being sold to Houston, what were your initial thoughts?
My initial, initial was like, "Beyonce, like we back."
Yeah.
It was just like it was so like, finally.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Especially since you're-- you, you were a player for this franchise.
Yes.
So- You know, thoughts yes, my initial, initial was just like Houston has felt like a long time coming- Mm-hmm and desire of mine as a player.
And Beyonce, we'd always be like, "Beyonce, are you gonna own the team?
Where you at, girl?"
Right, right, right, right.
"Come get us," you know?
and just the heartbreak, I think we'll get more into it for Sheryl Swoopes and, and folks whose banners don't get to be in a rafter.
Like just all of the like deep history that these amazing women who carried our league and did something phenomenal, and that they have no-- they don't get to walk into an arena and have it.
So- Mm-hmm I felt an outpour of just like love and like restoration for them.
Like finally- Ooh, that's good like, God, they deserve this.
And I loved seeing the way the older generation has been honored in this new wave of movement, where like we've intentionally been making sure we like give the flowers to the people before us.
so after my initial like excitement for Houston, I was like, "Oh, fu-" I had-- then I was like, "Damn, Connecticut."
Like I played for that team.
I lived in Connecticut.
I went to the finals with them in 2019.
Like such a talented group.
Mm-hmm.
Was a part of two of Kurt Miller's teams.
He also coached me in LA just with some I mean, Jazz Thomas is like a gem of a human who I got to play with.
Yeah.
Like I have really fond memories of, being in Connecticut and my time there, and just some really lifelong bonds.
And so thinking about, you know, as hard as it was as a player to travel there, like all the things about like the location of it are really difficult, and the casino at times are difficult.
But, just the fact that now what happens to their history and asking those questions- Mm-hmm and those fans, like what the UConn fans, the way they would consistently show up in the Northeast and Connecticut, like noon game, three o'clock game, 7:00 PM, like didn't matter, like that arena stayed packed.
And those people showed up, and thinking about the loss that it is for them.
And so while like Houston's gaining this beautiful thing, like someone else is losing something that meant so much to them.
so I just really had the mixed like, ugh.
Yeah.
It was a both and moment.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, I feel you.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I took in my very first WNBA event at Mohegan Tribe, Casino at their arena.
and I, I immediately felt weird about it.
I, I was like, "What does this mean for Connecticut Sun?"
And the thing is, let's just be real, when I heard it first sold, th- because this melodrama had been building up for so long, it was kinda like, yeah, I'm, I'm now even more convicted on what does this mean for the Connecticut Sun?
because when they were gonna move to another city like Boston or Hartford, they are now moving to cities that have never had WNBA teams.
So that history can go with them.
and th- that can just translate really nicely.
The Houston Comets, I love this word that you said, restoration.
you think about Houston Comets, you think about some of the best guard play, best post play, Cynthia Cooper, Sheryl Swoopes, Tina Thompson, right?
they win the first four, WNBA championships within the league, right?
They were an inaugural team.
They were a founding team.
They were insane.
and that all went away.
And you're right.
There was no way It's part of why we always feel like Sheryl Swoopes doesn't get the due credit that she deserves.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And Cynthia Cooper's at that too, and I mean, yeah, the big three, you just think about that team and you're just like, damn, they don't really get that space to be honored other than at maybe WNBA events, but they don't have a home- Mm-hmm to truly be honored.
And so I'm happy from that perspective, but yeah, my, my number one thought is about what come- happens to those fans and what happens to that history.
So let's go ahead and talk about it a- and take a step back, from our initial thoughts, and just talk about what this means in terms of is this a good move for the team?
Moving the team, and moving the, the team for this league, knowing that the league has not had a, an abundance of Southern, represent- or located teams, right?
There's the Dallas Wings, and that's about it, right?
Like there used to be- Mm-hmm the Miami Soul.
Yeah.
you know, North Carolina had a team.
Atlanta's in the South, but yeah.
Atlanta's in the South, but they're Southeast.
But over there.
It's a little different.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
so I, I would say even Charlotte is different than, you know, in the South- Yeah and in Texas.
And so from that perspective and moving into the league, adding another team to an NBA franchise, we know the benefits of that, of, you know, what the s- having that as a background, as a b- a backbone of an NBA team and the resources that are set up- Yep how that can help a team.
We think about that.
What are your thoughts of is this a good move for the Connecticut Sun becoming the Houston Comets and for the league overall?
Mm-hmm.
I think overall, yes, it is a good move.
Okay.
100%.
I think it's sad, and we can say all the things and think about the history and the fans, but overall I'm likeIf I just put my big business hat on, I'm like, "Yeah, this is good," for a few reasons.
Mm-hmm.
One, like the, the South needed another team, like Texas being that big, not having a team like regionally.
The Northeast was so saturated up there, so like in terms of location and traveling, it makes more sense to bring a squad- Mm-hmm ...um, to Texas.
I think about talent and how to get talent, and Connecticut was a hard place.
So I think when you look at the big framework of the league too, it was always something we talked about as players, and I think what Connecticut did such a good job with that ownership was like they were very well-resourced.
Like they-- we got massages before every game.
Like we had one of the nicest- Ooh ...we had one of the nicest practice facilities at that time.
But like you look at the league now, it's like leveling up, leveling up, whereas like, you know, the Seattle Storm way back when, before they did climate pledge, like they were one of the best and then they started kind of like people started catching up to them.
Yeah.
They averaged out.
And then they leveled up.
They were like Yep, they averaged out, and they were like, "Hold on," and they punched back, right?
And so you're looking at now like now these billionaires are coming into the WNBA and throwing money, like the standards have really changed.
Mm-hmm.
and so I think you see it in NBA too in terms of locations are just hard, and that's why you have the ability to core players, like 'cause you're gonna keep them in markets.
Right.
That's why teams argue, ownership groups and the league argue for these kind of rules and contracts, so they don't lose talent to places.
And so Connecticut's just become a harder and a harder place to continue to get talent because it's-- the location's tough to get to.
That's why the potential to move them to Hartford would've been better also because, or Boston, you can fly in and out easier.
Like there's more in the city of Hartford.
So it's just tough, that part about it, and I think you're gonna get more talent in Houston.
It's where people will wanna play more in the South.
So in terms of market, I think it's better.
yeah.
Like if you had to throw the city out there, no shade of just like Houston or Connecticut, like and look at the makeup of the WNBA players, like people wanna play in Houston over playing in Connecticut.
I will say that as a player in free agency, if I looked, I'd be like, "Yes.
Why wouldn't?"
Yeah.
Right?
Like- Yeah ...versus New York, it's like that's a big market.
Yeah, New York is New York, right?
Like- Yep ...the proximity to New York when you're in Connecticut, it's not, when you're playing games, you're not in the New York market.
You're not even in D.C. 100%.
Yep.
You're in Connecticut.
Properly.
Right?
Yeah.
And then you have to think about like even maybe why Stewie, I don't know this, this isn't like me personally talking to her, but when you look big picture, what her opportunities were in New York versus Seattle, like that's just becoming like big star.
Like it's like A-list star, right?
Oh, yeah.
1,000%.
You can't-- Even if Seattle leveled up, did all they could, they're still, they can't control where they live.
It's Seattle.
Yep.
She could be in Brooklyn where every night who's coming through the building in the brightest lights.
Right.
Yeah.
So that kind of stuff is starting to matter in our league because we're leveling up.
Yep.
Our league is growing and getting to a place where like we're thinking about this from a marketing perspective, from a location, from a talent perspective.
It's different now.
It's a different ballgame.
Yeah.
No, it's absolutely real, and you talk about these billionaires, and you talk about the level of standards, you know, rising, and I'm with all of that.
I think that this is why, it's a good thing for the league in the sense that it just reaffirms you that this whole notion that there was no money in the W and that there's no value in the W, it's BS.
Mm-hmm.
It's BS.
The same owners, NBA owners are part, they are percentage part of the overall ownership of the WNBA as a league, is the same ownership group that was just saying, "The math ain't mathing.
We're gonna lose money, like if we try to get this money paid out," et cetera.
Now, I ain't gonna hold it against them 'cause they did come to a CBA, okay?
So shout out to the owners, shout out to the players.
However, that whole notion, you gotta throw that away if you're spending $300 million on teams.
Right.
And, and you got homies in the W-- I mean, in the NBA alongside you that are like, "I could pay more."
Right.
"And I'm down to pay more.
I'm willing to pay more."
And so I think it's great for the league for like, from a perspective of, oh, we are valuable.
Hearing-- Like if you are someone that is a hater of the WNBA and you try to claim that they, there is no value, it, it, it's really hard to hear that teams used to be sold for $2 million, that Mark Davis bought the Las Vegas Aces for $2 million back in like, what, 2019?
And now- Not that long ago ...yeah, and now teams are going for 300?
And there are people that were trying to pay 325?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you can't, you can't-- I'ma just throw that number in your face.
Like I'm just gonna be like- Yeah ...is it really not valuable because these NBA players, I mean, these NBA owners are like very willing to get involved.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that that is always good.
To see these teams move, means that there's value, and I think that's good for the league- Yes ...and it's good for the team for folks to see the value in that.
I also think it is good for the league to balance out, as you mentioned, the geographical landscape of things.
I wanna s- transition to you, Layshia.
I, I, I referenced this in my initial thoughts of thinking about the fan base and what, what does this mean for the Connecticut Sun fan base and their team going away, and it's not as if they can just like cheer for their team in a different place.
Their team is gone.
We don't really know what's gonna happen with the history of the Connecticut Sun, history that you were a part of, and this is a small market.
They have been dedicated, as you've alluded to already.
You have-- Connecticut has had a lot of success.
Have they won a title?
No.
But they've been close a lot, okay?
Yeah.
Yeah.
and they've been really, really high-performing overall.
And so from your experience, whether it's fans, whether it's players, like what are you hearing about how people are feeling about all of this, and, where do people land on this move?
Yeah.
I think it's mixed feelings.
It's like the happy for the growth of the league, the team, but like the heartbreak and the loss.
Like I'm dear friends with Morgan Tuck, and it's like, dang, you're like, is that someone's job?
Like she's, right, a young player, a young GM in the league who played for Connecticut, who went to UConn, who like- Mm-hmm ...it made so much sense for her to get that job and be developing, and there's just this sad-Reality of like when this stuff happens, like people are impacted and they're affected.
And like I love that we're having this conversation 'cause I think that's like the breadth of the humanity and like what makes our league special is that like we do actually care.
We don't just like put our business hat on or like get over it.
Yep.
that's so a part of who the people are in our league that we think about these things.
So yeah, I'm sad for the fans.
I really am like I think about them coming in there, I mean it was like also an older fan base.
I don't know the- the, breakdown, but we had those people who like, I think one of the best attendances in the league for like the 11:00 AM games.
Like they'd be like, "Yeah, we went to breakfast this morning-" We're ready "and we came right over."
Right.
They already got a exercise in, they did their walk.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That's exactly- Yeah, those are people who also have like money to spend- Yeah and leisure like time, right?
Like so they would show up consistently, and those fans like showed up consistently.
Yeah.
Like that place was rocking, and that's why we had one of the best home court advantages for years.
Like Connecticut's home court, statistics, like our record was really good, and we had some really talented teams.
When I think back to, the year I was there, who was coming off the bench when I got traded from, in 2018 from Atlanta to Connecticut was I came off the bench with Jonquel Jones and Morgan Tuck.
That was our bench.
Ooh, that's crazy.
Allisa Thomas started- That's crazy with, Chiney Ogwumike, and Jazz Thomas was the point guard.
Nneka Strickland, Courtney got traded, me and Courtney were traded after she got in the fight with Alex Bentley.
Mm-hmm.
and there was one other starter I can't remember at the time.
But yeah, when I think back to like, oh my God, like that's who I was playing with.
Like- Yeah, we can thank Connecticut for the Stud Buds, right?
That's where they start Oh yeah, yeah.
That's where they started.
That's- And then Courtney stayed back Latisha Hideman was Courtney Williams' rookie, yeah.
Yeah.
That, I mean- The year I got injured, Latisha Hideman got waived.
Like it was the point of me and Jazz- That's right, yep were the point guards.
I got injured in June, and this is the crazy story, Bridget Carleton made the squad 'cause she was the better fit, like I was point guard.
They had to waive Bridget 'cause I got injured, and they brought Latisha Hideman back.
So it was like my injury, then she got the opportunity to come back, and then Latisha- Wow performed really well.
Yep.
Bridget ended up going on to, Minnesota and having a great fit there, and then the Stud Buds eventually, yeah, take off.
And Baby Tee's great, I love her.
So just- Yeah yeah, there's so many beautiful fond memories of the people there.
Amber Cox is a really good dear friend, and she was the president there, and she's now at Indiana.
And like I met her there and became like- Mm-hmm a colleague, a friend, a mentor in the space.
And so I think about all the people, and the actual folks in the tribe.
Like we would do, every year before we started, not necessarily the day of training camp, but at some point in the year, in the beginning they would come do a ceremony to like bless us.
A traditional ceremony where they would- Wow sage and like have the- Yeah like a feather leaf, and we would gather around to honor the fact that we were like on this tribal land and owned by this group that had really deep indigenous roots, and it was so beautiful.
And to know the folks in the tribe, and so I think about that kind of loss also for those people.
Um- Wow.
Man And also gratitude for like what they did do and- Right the years we did get.
Yeah.
it's, it's, it is sad.
You know, you-- I don't know how many, tribal groups still own teams or, or have ownership now across, major sports, and I'd have to look that up.
But, I did feel like the Mahican Tribe were doing it right and doing it well.
And so, it is tough too to think that that's no longer gonna be, a part of the family that it is.
And I hope that the Fortita family finds a way to still honor that in a way.
But it feels like they are all bought into the Houston Comets, which is perfectly fi- fine.
Yeah.
you know, that they deserve that.
Yeah.
But when you think about this, about the optics of this, you know, I referenced the fact that people were willing to pay more.
There were other teams that were in line, right?
Jayson Tatum was part of an ownership group that wanted to bring a team to St. Louis.
Candace Parker was part of a team that wanted to bring a team to Tennessee.
there was a lot of folks that were like, "We want one too," raising their hand.
And it feels like the WNBA said, "We are going to prioritize, number one, NBA owners and NBA ownership," and two, that they kinda, kinda got to cut the line.
But when you think about it, this was a founding team of the WNBA.
If there's anyone to bring back before you bring a new team in, it would be- Yeah an original member of the W, no?
So you just, you kinda feel like you're on both sides, you're teetering back and forth.
Does, does this matter that, you know, you're, instead of bringing a new, a new franchise, that you're going backwards in time to honor one of the teams that was at the, at the origin- at the original point of women's professional basketball in the United States?
Ooh, that's a good point.
I didn't think of it that way.
Mm-hmm.
Of like, does it matter as long as they're coming back?
Interesting, yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I, I feel like it's, it's hard because I do understand this concept of, "Oh, well, we were willing to pay more, and, and we wanna bring it to a new city," and, and but what is happening, and, and I'm not shaming anyone for this, I'm actually excited about this, everyone is buying into the momentum of women's basketball.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
People are realizing how much value and money and, and opportunity and, growth potential there is in women's basketball, and it's like that's great, but the women that were part of setting the foundation of what this moment is, they deserve an opportunity to be celebrated, and they deserve to have an opportunity to have their legacies mean something.
Absolutely.
You know?
And, and live in this moment now.
It felt like a, a matter of time.
It also feels really, it makes me really, happy, proud that the league is like making sure to honor the history without just moving forward, right?
Like- Yeah not just are likeFlippantly being like, "Yeah, you get a team, you get a team.
Let's just grow it as big as we can."
I think Cathy has done a good job of trying to be smart about the timing of growth.
And so I think going back to make sure we honor like the first dynasty in our league, right?
The Minnesota Lynx have gotten-- like they've had no one to contend with essentially.
Mm-hmm.
And people are always like, "But the H- but Houston."
But like there was folks, unless you were like an OG- Right, you didn't know them you know, like top-notch fan, you didn't really know that like, wait, what?
They did what?
There's even stuff that I haven't known that like- Four in a row is crazy.
It's insane.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's insane.
So it- they ab- Houston absolutely needed to have a team to honor like the foundation of what they did for our league and the breadth of talent.
Like it's was a matter of time before they came back.
Yeah.
It's unfortunate that Connecticut had to take the like, ah, in order for that to happen- Mm-hmm which I think is just the timing.
I don't know the reason why.
but I'm also like, Boston, are y'all still bidding for a team in the future?
Like Hartford- Yeah bring the Connecticut Sun back.
Like there's money still to be spent, so like they could still be out here.
But I think it's really important for Houston, and I'm really happy for them.
I absolutely think more NBA teams, like just because this happened, if anything, it just galvanizes other NBA teams to be like, "All right, let's just wait our turn.
It seems like the W's prioritizing us anyways.
Let's wait our turn."
And you know, Boston, Milwaukee, these are teams that haven't had a team yet or have had a team in the past.
I imagine that if Miami raised their hand and wanted a team, they probably would get one back.
If Charlotte raised their hand and wanted a team, they'd probably get one back, and they might, quote unquote, "cut the line."
However, either way, whether they had a team in the past or they didn't have a team and they wanna bring one to an NBA team, it does feel like having NBA ownership establishes a level of standard, as you mentioned, security in a way, and just a, an abundance of resources of, of tying a team in, in that way, whether it's tying them to a, another NBA franchise or even, you know, what Portland is doing in, in Portland with the Portland Thorns and the Portland Fire.
But having an ownership group that is invested and bought into sports on a major level, you look at the Aces with the Las Vegas Raiders, right?
It, it doesn't matter if it's NBA or not, but pa- particularly in this circumstance, tying an WNBA team to an NBA ownership model feels like it's just elevating everything.
How do you feel about that, having been on the side of being tied to a team that did not have, ties to NBA ownership, and then over the years seeing the teams that were, what did that feel like?
You know, but Indiana, for example, what was that like?
Yeah.
I played for the all the different models.
It was the casino model with Connecticut, the independent-owned, with Atlanta at the time.
And then with- Oh, right, in LA too in LA, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So I played, I played for all those three models during my career.
And, I mean, like I mentioned, Connecticut did a great job, so independent, like casino-owned, the tribal group.
Mm-hmm.
Atlanta was the toughest and a tough city to play in at the time.
obviously Kelly Loeffler was the owner.
There's a lot, there's a lot of history there.
A lot of history there.
yeah.
but yeah, being at Indiana was like the resources were just, were just better, but it also, the thing that's different to me now was like the NBA when I came into the league was still like giving us the scraps, right?
It was like you had a team- Ooh but they weren't, it was still, there weren't dedicated employees, right?
Even in the league office, it was like, "Oh, you work in the NBA, but like make sure we also need you to cover you-" You do some W stuff on the side.
Yeah.
It was like the charity almost of like, So that has been the big shift of like actually getting dedicated WNBA full-time employees- Mm-hmm to work year-round, us being able to fight for our own sponsorships, not just being like, "Oh, NBA, y'all got a whatever, JBL deal.
Like, can you also sponsor the W?"
Like almost like you- Right they would almost say, "You have to take us on," right?
Mm-hmm.
And so in that way, we just weren't well-resourced internally, even with NBA ownership.
And this is the difference now, where NBA ownership, instead of saying, "We lose money, we lose money, we don't want it," they're like, "We're willing to throw $325 million at you guys because we want it," right?
Wow.
So that shift is insane.
Yeah.
And I think regardless of ownership model, just the money being willing to be poured into the teams.
And I do think NBA ownership is a good model because of all the things you mentioned.
You already have-- Facility is one of the hardest things to come by.
I think that's the biggest part for me.
And so that's something we used to battle with when I was in Atlanta, like whatever went down with the Hawks, like we, they never We used to play in their arena and then we weren't anymore.
So like then we had to- we were cast out playing in Georgia Tech or trying to find a place.
And so if you're able to be in the arena and your team actually wants you, owns you, like you saw with the Valkyries, they did have to move one of their games last year because they had the tennis tournament that had been scheduled for years.
Years before, yeah.
Right.
But like other than that, it's like you're gonna schedule your concerts around when your WNBA team is playing and not like battling them.
Yeah.
They actually want you to succeed.
So they're actually on your side and not like- Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely I'm annoyed at you for existing.
Let's be real, like capitalism exists.
We, we operate in it.
And these co- these-- I was gonna say coaches, these owners, when the league was thriving in 1997, 1998, when it first started, up until, you know, that 2001, 2002 period where things were not profitable in the same way, ownership felt that attendance wasn't, wasn't worth the, it wasn't creating the worth and the value to keep their arenas open or, or block calendar dates on, in their arena d- calendars.
And overall, teams were, given the ability to sell their teams, and they did.
Owners were like, "This isn't worth it.
We'd rather have sold-out concerts, or we'd rather have, you know, other elements within our calendar dates of our arenas."
And a lot of teams sold.
And I think that's why a lot of fans feel bitter still about, these long-term fans feel bitter about the idea of-WNBA teams going back to W- NBA ownership because they still feel slighted that a lot of- Mm-hmm some of these NBA owners were like, "This ain't worth- they ain't worth the squeeze," you know?
Right.
It just ain't worth the squeeze.
They didn't invest it to, like, grow it to the point.
Correct.
Correct.
Yeah.
It is important to note that these are different owners though, right?
A lot of the teams that are trying to get WNBA teams are not the same owners that gave their teams up back in the day.
and so these aren't people that are trying to be like, "Oh, my bad.
Let me get, let me get that back."
Right.
You know?
Right.
Like, let me get back with my ex or whatever it is.
Like, they- they're not doing-- There's not a lot of that going on.
for the most part, you're seeing people that are actually seeing the value and wanting to be involved.
I think Joe Lacob is, with the Valkyries is a, a great example, of that.
But even thinking of, like, Joe and Clara Tsai in New York, they ain't playing around.
I, I would say the Liberty get more attention than the Nets do.
Like, that's- 'cause they warrant that.
Um- Yeah so I, I do think there's a, a little bit of a, there's a different feel and belief in the product than what those original owners ended up being, when, you know, things got-- took a little dip in the W. Yeah.
So let's move away from the business side and examine this more from, like, an on-the-ground perspective because, you know, this is obviously a very new market.
Houston has University of Houston.
I've played them before.
I am trying to think of anything else from a women's basketball perspective in terms of, like, what's in the soil, and I'm sure from a, a, a, a high school perspective and- Oh, yeah you know, youth basketball, yes.
But it feels like this is a city that's clamoring for this opportunity to have women's basketball on the pro level.
So what do we think, Houston being a diverse city and some-- being a city that, that hasn't had pro women's hoops, you know, rooted in it before, since, excuse me, the Houston Comets, like, it's been a while, what do we think this means for Houston to have this team come?
And also, what was the feeling?
How different is the feeling gonna be from a Connecticut vibe to a Houston vibe?
Because again, my first experience to a WNBA event, it was actually a WNBA All-Star going up against the, USA team, and I believe this was before the 2012 Olympics.
Okay.
And they played at All-Star and I went for-- That was my very first event, and I was just like, "I can't believe North Carolina.
What are you doing?
Why haven't we had a team?"
Um- Yeah so seeing that, but being in the arena and being like, "Ooh, this is, this isn't very diverse in here."
No, not at all.
it's not, it's not diverse from a race perspective.
It's not diverse from an age perspective.
Houston feels like it's gonna be very different.
So I wanna talk a little bit about what that feels like culturally.
Yes.
It's gonna be much different.
So I was playing for Atlanta at the time when I got traded to Connecticut, so it feels like that where it was just like- Ooh I was in Atlanta, it was so Black, so queer.
Like, the food, the culture, every- the music, the history, the civil rights movement, like, all of it.
Sure.
And then I-- it was a really good basketball move.
I was really happy and grateful at the team, all of that.
But, like, just from a purely I'm a Black queer person who walks out of the gym every day and exists in a space, it was like- Yeah like, where did I get plucked into?
and going to the grocery store and just, just being like, oh, I went from being the, like, no one pays me any attention in Atlanta, which is the best feeling in terms of, like- Ah I'm just another cute Black person walking around, like, just all we're just all beautiful in Atlanta to, like, the sore thumb at the grocery store of just, like, double take.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Because I was the person who stood out.
And so I think of that way from, like, going from Connecticut to Houston, where you're just like, oh, and there is an exhale for me and my body, and, like, when you can just exist in a space where you're not thinking constantly and having to, like, contort your body, right?
Does racism- Mm-hmm exist in Houston?
Absolutely.
It's everywhere.
Sexism- Yeah all of it.
But there is something to say about culturally being able to be somewhere where you feel safe, where you feel like you can just be yourself and you're not having to be the only one in any given room at any given time.
We know what that feels like as women, as Black peoples, queer folks- Mm-hmm trans person.
And so I'm really excited for the players in that way to be in Houston.
I don't know what Nneka's story's gonna be or not, but I'm, like, thinking of those kind of players- Sure and just, like And it's interesting, like, the geopolitics of it 'cause you think about one of my initial thoughts too was like, oh, wow.
Like, I was, I was very concerned about the W going to Boston because the racist- history of those Boston fans.
Like, we've seen it- The Boston fans, yeah with the NBA and I was like, like, I don't-- Packed arena or not, like, I'm not trying to play in that energy.
I actually just flew into Boston when I worked in Connecticut last week, and I drove to Connecticut and I was just, like, I landed and I was like, why is the inter- like, why is Boston so racist?
Like, I just- like why does it feel this way?
I was texting my friend.
She was like, "I know."
And I was-- She was like, "Let me know when you get home safe, like, to your hotel."
Yeah.
And so that is just a lived experience of like, ugh, you know?
Yeah.
And so to have that feeling, but then you think about going to Texas, right?
Where it's like you're in Houston, it reminds me of being in Atlanta, but you're in the state of Georgia, which is, has extreme voter suppression, who is fighting to take our country backwards.
Yeah.
So, like, you're in Houston, yes, and you're in this bubble of kind of safety more so where culturally it's great for the W, but, like, you're still in Houston where, like-- or Texas, where there's abortion law.
Like, there's laws- Yeah that literally are fighting against the freedom of women.
Yeah.
And I think that's, like, this dystopian moment we live in where our country is doing one thing and the WNBA's, like, moving forward- Right but still exists in all these different coun- in these different states where you have to factor in all the different laws- Yeah and everything that comes with that.So I think it's interesting that we're in the major cities in the states that are doing the weird state things.
And that's the thing, the WNBA is always going to come up and confront and, and butt up against this issue of the existence of just being a league that is so diverse in sexuality, race, socioeconomic class.
Every, every single type of human you could possibly think of can exist within the context of the WNBA.
Yeah.
And that is a great thing, but when it comes to where the country is now in terms of the rights of that full gamut, that's where things get incredibly complex and i- incredibly difficult.
And like, of course, Dallas already exists in Texas, and they probably have experienced their own, levels of conflict or of complexities.
but it would've been the same thing if they, they would've went to Boston, if, hell, if they brought a team to Milwaukee.
And we know that the women don't acquiesce in the same way that the men might.
I'd be very curious to talk to someone from like Love, you know, the V- Love Volleyball League, 'cause they have a team in Houston, and what that's been like.
And I'll say all this, you know, and close out on this.
I do wanna give love to the sold-out games in Boston because that- Yeah those, you know, TD Garden, they have shown up in 2024 and 2025.
They have this annual-- And they're gonna do it again this year, and, you know, you hope to see it again.
it-- That-- But one game is very different than a ongoing season.
And so you, you, you're just curious as how, how all would-- it would play out over the course of a year.
I don't think Boston's gonna give up on that, so it's-- I don't feel like that's, that concept or that notion that, that this m-might happen is gonna go away.
But as of right now, Houston will be where the Connecticut Sun end up being starting in 2027.
As of right now, the Connecticut Sun fans have one year to- pour out their love to their franchise, and be in this sunset season for them.
And, you know, of course, we'll keep you guys posted on all of it and how everything plays out.
it is important to note, you mentioned Morgan Tuck being the GM.
Still technically seems like she is going to be kept on as GM.
they did hire-- the Fertitta family hired Kevin Pelton, a former, ESPN WNBA and NBA writer, to be a, like, a special consultant, to, Morgan Tuck a- and her team as they build out this, this new team, essentially.
'Cause remember, CBA, free agency, all the things- Yes still crazy right now in the W. So players sign thinking of the future, right?
'Cause all this money's about to come down the line.
Like, do you sign being like, "Oh, I'll play one year in Connecticut 'cause I know," right?
Am I gonna sign a three-year deal knowing I'll do a year in Connecticut- Yes but I'm getting to Houston for my last two years of that contract?
And that's, that might-- And that's another thing that might change, you know, the, the layout of what the roster construction of what Connecticut looks like.
Good news is, they've got a lot of babies on that team, so a lot of rookie scale contracts.
But y-yeah, it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens in free agency.
Okay.
Well, on the other side of this break, we got one more thing.
Friends, it is time for And One More Thing, brought to you by Sam's Club.
Shout out to Sam's Club for get me-- giving me extra time to just yap on one more thing every week.
Now, for years, WNBA players, you all know, were earning a fraction of what their male counterparts in the NBA make.
But through smart strategy and careful negotiations, they completely, completely turned the tables.
There's still more to be turned, I think, but they have completely turned the tables from where they were, I would say.
Imagine this.
Imagine in your everyday world you get a 400% raise.
That's insane.
That's it.
Like, that would be wild.
Sounds like a dream, and that's exactly what happened this season.
And you ask yourself the question like, "Ooh, how do the WNBA players go about this?
How'd they go from these modest salaries to an average of over 580,000?"
Well, it turns out that they tapped a Harvard economist and Nobel laureate, Claudia Goldin, to help them make sense of the math so that the W could make sense of the math and they'd get paid.
I don't know if you've heard this story and, and it's been going around for a while, and I saw this first, I don't know.
someone shared it, I think maybe on X or Blue Sky, but I was immediately like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa."
First and foremost, I know Claudia Goldin.
Why do I know Claudia Goldin?
Oh, it's because she wrote an opinion piece for The New York Times way back in the day, way back in the day being like a year ago or so- talking about, like, how ridiculous it is essentially that the WNBA players do not get paid well.
And I don't know exactly what the order of this was, but she writes this piece, and the WNBA taps her to help with these negotiations, Layshia.
How critical would it have been to have somebody like Claudia in your pocket back in 2020?
It would've been so nice.
I bet.
So ridiculously nice.
Yeah, it would've been amazing.
I think it speaks to, like, the strategy that, the players and Terri Jackson, the union, learned from, you know, the last time you do it.
We've talked on this podcast about experience and being a veteran.
And now people are a veteran.
Like, that internal EC leadership overall is a veteran to how to go through a CBA negotiation 'cause you learn and you grow.
So I think this point really speaks to finding the right people.
Mm-hmm.
And at the time, we found the people, the best people we could.
We didn't know, right?
You, you know better, you do better.
You learn, you grow.
You don't get caught out the same way, and that's why veterans rule the court.
And so I think it really speaks to that.
I think it speaks to Claudia's, likeShe's, she's a symbol to me of like how much everyone is in the fight and rooting for the W in terms of like every woman or the sexism.
Like it's like people feel connected to it 'cause like we know what it's like, right?
Yep.
To be, even if she never is gonna get a cent of this, it's like she's fought sexism in her life and like being someone- Yes who's forward-thinking.
And so it's just so beautiful that way of like the breadth of people who are connected to our league because of what it represents.
And like it's that idea of like when the WNBA's winning, like other people are winning, too.
Again- Yep whether they get a dime or not or like get to attend a game, they know in the larger fight of things, like this stuff really matters, and that's why we're part of it.
And it just feels like those people who are like behind pushing, and I'm so glad this story came out 'cause you actually get to see like who those people are.
And there's so many folks you'll never know or hear.
Every fan who held a sign.
Like I was at- Yeah the All-Star game in Indiana last year, and though when I looked around and I was fans were holding up signs.
Oh, people were bought in.
Yeah.
And then Brittney Sykes was holding it behind in the interview.
Like, I was like, "Ooh!"
Like so shout out to every single fan, every person who held a sign, who bought a shirt, who like we're not gonna, you know, be able to shout your name out like a Peloton instructor right now on like the screen.
I wish we could, but like that, it matters, and it's so important that you guys have been behind pushing and pushing and pushing.
Court of public opinion is so important.
And when you've got people in the public that are willing to be a part of this, it's-- I, I wanna give just a quick little synopsis of like Claudia Goldin won a 2023, Nobel Prize for her work on the women's labor market outcomes.
this is a solo economic prize, only woman to win this in 2023. the first woman at least.
And there were three things, that she accepted after she won that prize.
She received hundreds of invitations and requests, and she was like, "I'll do three things."
One of them was deciding to just advise the, WNBA Players Union.
And what everyone keeps referring to in the, the Wall Street Journal piece about this, and it's, it's kind of very much laid out in her New York Times opinion piece about this, which you should go ch-check out, where she talks about it being embarrassing how much less the, the women are being paid.
she removed the emotion out of this.
In the way that, you know, the court of public opinion may have been like, "You need to pay the player, the players what they're worth because these women are valuable, and they deserve this, and they..." She removed all of that.
She was like, "Uh-uh.
It's economics.
It's math."
If you do these numbers, and, and the premise of how she did this was basically looking at the, quote unquote, "like a version of a life expectancy of WNBA players."
How long they're gonna be in the league, how much they're gonna be paid over the course of that time, and how much they're gonna be exerting in the period of that time, and is it-- does that match up in the, the levels of what they're exerting versus what they're gonna receive?
And she was like, "No."
And she looked at the, the, the TV deal.
She looked at all these different math, mathematical e-elements to what was being proposed.
And every time the players or the, the W- NBPA was feeling a little bit anxiety about what was happening with the W, she was like, "It's just math.
It's gonna make sense."
And that to me is like having an elder in the room to tell you to calm down.
Isn't that where we started when we were talking?
It's like the veteran being like, "It's okay."
It's the veteran to just be like- "Know your rep sheet" "Just chill."
Yeah.
Been here before.
Know what this is.
So perfect, perfect way to end, to start and end our conversation today.
Shout out to Claudia Goldin for helping the women, get exactly what they deserved, and hopefully those earnings and those learnings are gonna be continuously used in the future, CBA negotiations to continue to get these women what they deserve.
Mm-hmm.
All right, y'all.
That is going to be it for us today.
Sh- Sabrina and Chantel will be back tomorrow.
They're gonna be talking about the expansion draft and Final Four.
Don't forget, you can catch us live on YouTube on Saturday morning, where we're gonna break down the expansion draft outcome, the Final Four takeaways, and preview the national title game.
So be sure that you are following the show 'cause you don't wanna miss anything, all right?
Mm-hmm.
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