What NIL regulations would help college sports?
Andrew Brandt joins Dan Patrick to break down the "Wild West" nature of NIL in college sports, the dynamics between agents and teams across sports and more.
Video Transcript
All right, let me bring out Andrew Brandt, the author of a new book, Smarter About Sports.
He's been a guest on the show periodically.
It's, My Life Navigating Athletes, Agents, Media, and the Business of the NFL, The Business of Sports Podcast.
Also, he writes for The Athletic, Sports Illustrated.
There he is walking in, acting very important.
Hey.
Very regal there.
You look like an executive there.
You got your golf shirt on.
You look like maybe you're doing a corporate outing or something.
I did one last night.
That's why I'm Hold that up closer to you.
Uh- Hey good, good to see you.
Really good to see you, and thanks for having me up.
I was in the area last night doing a corporate golf event, speaking for those people, and they wanted to hear all about NIL and the crazy world we're living in in college sports.
So I contacted you guys, and here I am, and I appreciate you talking about- Okay my new book.
Where are we going with NIL?
That's- Like, why is that a hot topic for these people?
Everyone's frustrated.
You know, I've been doing consulting.
I've been in pro sports my whole life.
I never thought about being in college sports, but a couple of athletic directors have called and said, "Can you help us?
Can you help us with this cap and contracts and unlimited free agency?"
And people want to know, where does this end?
What's going to happen here?
We've got legislation.
It's, it's a bill.
It's made it through the Senate floor.
It's now in the full Senate.
We hope to have a vote this week, move to the House, et cetera.
Is it perfect?
No, but we need some regulation.
Well, it feels like college athletics has screwed this up.
Yeah.
They didn't heed the warning signs.
Now they're asking Congress to help them out.
That's my feeling with this, Andrew.
I think Mark Emmert had his head in the sand for so many years.
Charlie Baker's doing the best he can, but I'm a lawyer, as you know.
There will be lawyers.
Everything you try to do to restrict, the lawyers come at you.
The transfer portal's unregulated because it, somebody went to a judge and say, "Hey, Judge, Eddie's an engineer.
He can transfer every year.
Suzy's a math major.
She can transfer every year.
Why can't athletes?"
And judges are like, "You're right."
We don't have the regulation we have in pro sports.
When I do these contracts, someone just mentioned Ryan Conwell.
I did his contract last year- for Louisville, and when you say to an agent, "Hey, let's do a two-year deal, three-year deal," they laugh at you.
"Are you kidding me?
Why would I do a two-year deal?
I have free agency every year.
I have optionality.
That creates leverage.
That creates money."
Yeah.
"Why would I do that?"
And that's what we're dealing with in college sports.
May This bill has a one-time transfer policy.
This bill has agent regulation.
Agents, I'm dealing with mothers, cousins, AU coaches, you know, everyone, so it's- Can you see Okay, we have salary caps- Yeah in certain sports.
All of them.
Do you think we need a salary cap in baseball?
I do, because the payroll disparity in baseball is so different than the sports we talk about mostly, where you have the Dodgers at 400 million.
You have five teams under 100 million.
That's not ha- But as long as we have a minimum spend- Well, that's why we need a cap.
A cap has not People talk about the ceiling with a cap.
Yeah.
Cap has a floor.
So minimum spend would force the A's and the Pirates and the Royals and whoever those teams are to up spend.
But the union, whether go back to Marvin Miller and Michael Weiner and Tony Clark and now Bruce Meyer, they're like, "We would rather have the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers unlimited spending than worry about up spending the Pirates."
That has been their- Oh, okay.
Their They don't care about a floor.
They just don't want a cap.
So it's gonna be contentious.
I mean, starting December 1 or whatever it is.
But is this a strike?
Like, does this feel like there's gonna be a work stop?
It does.
Okay.
But December, January, February, who cares?
Yes.
So we'll see about March, and you know my saying, deadlines spur action.
We'll see.
Do we need a sal Will, will we have a salary cap in college athletics?
We do.
I know, but I'm- But people are blowing by them- I know because we have this supplemental NIL, which is basically you can deal deals beyond the revenue share.
I write revenue share contracts between the school and the athlete, but there's still supplemental NIL.
You just have to get it approved, and sometimes it gets approved, sometimes it doesn't.
Teams are ignoring it.
We're seeing- But did I- did Indiana win the national title because of NIL?
No.
Partially.
I think they developed players at James Madison that went to- Yeah, okay went to Indiana, and they actually- Okay stayed under the cap.
But yeah, they just signed a five, $6 million quarterback to replace Mendoza.
I mean, this is where the money is right now in the Power, Power Four conferences.
And do we want competitive- But this doesn't, it doesn't stop illegal payments though, Andrew.
That's the thing.
It's above board, but then there's stuff that's on the, on the periphery that is still happening here.
I think we need a larger cap that's truly enforced and, and not have the CSC worry about $600 deals for lacrosse players.
Let's get to the big deals, and then you can do your Adidas deal.
You can do your Nike deal outside the cap, just like pro sports.
Yeah.
But we're so worried, as we should be, I guess, about the cheating and you're coming here, but you're really getting this side deal under the table.
Yeah, it's frustrating, but then, you know, you start to hear the, the SEC saying, "You know what?
Maybe we just go on our own here."
NIL now stands for now it's legal.
I can't believe I'm writing contracts between universities and student athletes for millions of dollars.
There are football rosters over 40 million.
There are basketball rosters over 25 million.
Think about that.
You know, five years ago, NIL came on board, we were talking about thousand deal, $1,000 deals, shouting out on Instagram.
Now you're getting paid to play, and we have insulated that in a license contract because we don't want to get in the employee-employer thing.
And by the way, collective bargaining, people say, "Well, just collective bargain."
No.
Who are you bargaining with?
Football, basketball, baseball, hockey.
What players?
D1, Power Four, and then who are you bargaining on the other side?
Is it conferences?
Is it commissioners?
Is it the NCAA?
Is it the school?
And states don't allow collective bargaining for public employees.
What about biggest contract that you've negotiated so far?
In college?
Yeah.
Four and a half million.
For a quarterback?
I can't say.
Why?
Basketball.
Oh, basketball.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Current player?
Yes.
How contentious does this get?
With agents?
With these negotiations?
When you're negotiating.
What you're trying to do on the school point of view, and that's me, I'm sort of management like I was with the Packers, you're trying to protect having to continue to pay if they're transfer, having to continue to pay if they voluntarily redshirt, not medical redshirt, voluntary to get an extra year.
Mm-hmm.
Having to continue to pay with breach, with morals, all those kind of things.
But again, the most contentious thing is c- can I please get a second year?
No.
No.
No one will let me get a second year in these contracts.
The, book is Smarter About Sports: My Life Navigating Athletes, Agents, Media, and the Business of the NFL.
We had Jerry Jones get involved in contract negotiations.
I thought that that was against the CBA, but he wasn't held accountable for that.
Why is that?
Well, I think the CBA requires that a team negotiator doesn't deal with the, player directly.
I mean- But he was.
Yes, and I don't know where w- the discipline went with that.
This was back in the day where you'd have Carl Peterson of the Chiefs, you had Tex Schramm, some of these people, like, we called it hotboxing.
You know, you get the player in the room, "Hey- we're, we're all good, right?
We're all good.
You don't need an agent."
And, and- Wow the only player I think he did that with is Parsons.
You know, they let the Lamb, and Perk, and Prescott contracts go on forever, and then they gave him top of the market.
I thought that would happen with Parsons, and something personal happened there.
They, he shut out the agent, and that led to this, this divorce later on.
But, you know, my negotiations, Dan, I, as everyone knows, I was the only team that didn't have an owner.
We had incredible autonomy.
I felt like I, if I did a $5 million contract or a $50 million contract, no one's gonna say, "Great job," or, "Not a good guy."
So I just understood working for the Packers was like working for a public trust.
You really, like, what would the shareholders want here?
And you negotiated Favre's contract.
Mm-hmm, and Aaron's first contract.
And, you know, with Brett, i- this is the story of the book.
It's not so much about numbers.
It's about ego, and relationships, and insecurities, and Brett wanted to know, "Am I being paid similarly to," at that time, "Troy Aikman, Drew Bledsoe, Steve McNair?"
Not so much, "Do I have to get 20 million, 21 million, 22 million?"
So that's a learning experience for me to realize these players are really all about, "Are you treating me like that team's treating their star?"
Yeah.
Not so much the numbers.
It's really relationships.
What is Tom Brady doing?
I don't understand it.
You know, I thought he'd be this A-list celebrity that's kind of out of sight, out of mind, except for his TV appearances for Fox, and this thing with Fanatics, and Fan Fest, and fighting Logan Paul, or Jake, whoever Paul he's fighting, to set up some WWE, it just I, I surmise that after 20 years under the Belichick mushroom cloud, he's making up for lost time.
He's got personality.
That was shunted in New England, of course, and I don't know what's going on with him now.
He's everywhere, and he's playing a game.
Yeah, but I go back to the roast.
Yeah.
I, I would've told him, "I don't care how much money, don't do it, because they're gonna go after your wife at the time."
Right.
And I think they told him they weren't, but those comedians, they're out for a laugh.
They don't care, and if it's live, and I was like, y- you can't go into it thinking that you can trust them, 'cause they, that's why it's a roast.
Yeah.
They want you uncomfortable.
So you do that, and then you, you're setting up a WWE moment here.
Yeah.
And I, I just Like, you graduated as the greatest.
Y- you're with the Raiders.
Conflict of interest in your opinion that he's broadcasting and he's with the Raiders?
You know, we d- I think the, it's a little silly that they won't let him, you know, go to meetings, but then he's on the field talking to guys before the game, and his partners will tell him whatever they find out.
I don't get too upset about that.
I, I just think the b- the, the Michael Rubin, the CEO of Fanatics, is kind of a puppet master to these ma- mega celebrities.
I was just shocked to see Novak Djokovic, and Brady, and even Messi, and all these guys show up.
For money.
Of course it's for money, but they don't You can always say they need the money.
The, there's never enough, but why?
But they're gonna pay Messi, what, a million bucks to show up?
For 10 minutes.
Yes.
I mean, why wouldn't you?
I guess.
I guess.
But they do show up.
But at least he didn't have to do the- No, he didn't have to- performative you know, smack anybody.
The best run organization in all of sports is who?
Financially.
I'd love to say the team I worked for, the Packers, because it was so, football first.
You know, there's no owner diverting resources to a boat, or a yacht, or- you know, something else.
It was all football.
And obviously there are other well-run organizations.
I, I look at teams like the Eagles, and the Patriots, and the Steelers, and so many teams that make it about the product and not all these other things.
And say what you will about Jerry Jones, he's invested.
You know, and he bought the team, and he's gonna run the team, and he has a family owner.
People talk about, "Well, if so and so sold for $10 billion, what's their..." They're never gonna sell, you know?
The Patriots are never gonna sell.
The, the, these team, the, the Bengals are never gonna sell.
These are family businesses that are now worth $10 billion, and the in- continuing popularity and profitability of NFL never ceases to amaze me.
I mean, 110 billion in media contracts, that's gonna go way north.
Oh, yeah.
Way north in a couple years.
He's Andrew Brandt.
The book is Smarter About Sports: My Life Navigating Athletes, Agents, Media, and the Business of the NFL.
It's available, now online wherever books are sold.
It's great to see you again.
Great to see you.
Good luck with the book.
Thanks so much.
Hope you enjoy it.
We'll take a break.
We're back after this.
