Can Sonny Dykes bring TCU Horned Frogs BACK to Big 12 title contention in 2026?

Thu, Jul 9, 2026

With Big 12 Media Days wrapped up, Andy & Ari are back home and ready to recap what all they covered in Frisco. One notable team out of the Big 12 is TCU. Making it to the national title game after the 2022 season, Sonny Dykes is poised to bring the Horned Frogs back to title contention in the upcoming season. Watch as Andy & Ari are joined by the Horned Frogs head coach here.0:00 On Today's Episode1:06 Presenting Sponsor3:08 Intro: Previewing Sonny5:28 Sonny Dykes joins21:03 Previewing TCU vs North Carolina in Dublin28:37 Recapping Sonny Dykes' interview36:07 ZenAI37:13 Who Am I?42:50 Previewing Rich Clark44:13 Rich Clark Joins1:02:26 Recapping Rich Clark's interview1:08:26 Wisconsin vs Notre Dame: Uniform Matchup1:16:01 Closing Out: See you tomorrow!Once Sonny Dykes joins the show, Andy & Ari discuss the season opener from Dublin, Ireland, between North Carolina and TCU. As the two faced off in Chapel Hill last year, Sonny Dykes expects this matchup to be different this season.Next up, the College Football Playoff executive director Rich Clark joins the show to discuss the current options for expansion of the current 12-team field. Will the CFP go to 16 or 24 teams?Closing out, Andy & Ari dissect the uniform matchup between Wisconsin and Notre Dame in Lambeau Field week 1. Are you a fan of the jerseys?See you tomorrow for Dear Andy & Ari!Our show is also presented by BetMGM!If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code CFB and you will get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! Here's how it works: 1. Download the BetMGM app and sign-up using bonus code CFB.2. Deposit at least $10 and place your first wager on any game.3. You will receive up to $1500 in bonus bets if your bet loses! Just make sureyou use bonus code CFB when you sign up!Make this college football season one for the history books. Make it legendary.See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. This promotional offer is not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET (Available in the US) . 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only (if applicable). Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and HotelCheck out Zen AI here: http://bit.ly/zenAI_bpp_itfJoin On3 today! https://www.on3.com/joinSubscribe to On3! ⬇️ youtube.com/on3sports/?sub_confirmati...Welcome to On3 | The best of college football and recruiting https://www.on3.com/

Video Transcript

On today's episode of Andy and Ariana 3 presented by Bet MGM, TCU Coach, Sonny *** joins the show.

He's talking his Harvard transfer quarterback, hanging with Billy Bob Thornton, and also why Sonny thinks that college football teams need to collectively bargain with the players before the cost get completely out of control.

Also a very fun who am I?

I'm asking the questions.

Are he answering?

I think I can stump him.

At least for a little while.

Later, Rich Clark, the executive director of the college football playoff joins us to discuss the discussions about 2014, 16 teams, staying at 12 teams.

You know how Ariana feel.

We want it to stay at 12.

Rich Clark, he'll do anything.

But he explains what the process is going to be over the next few months as they try to make a decision, as the commissioners try to decide what the college football playoff is going to look like going forward.

We'll talk about it all on today's Andy and Ariana 3 presented by Bet MGM.

This show is brought to you by Bet MGM, all the totals and lines we use come from Bet MGM.

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Welcome to Andy Darryl, representative of I.V.

at MGM.

Sorry, our favorite coaches talk to you joining us today.

TCU's Sonny ***.

We saw him in the national title game just four, well less than four years ago, three and a half years ago.

Sonny *** playing for national title in his first season at TCU.

They are, they've been a good team the last few years.

They would like to ascend and be an excellent team, a team that competes for the big 12 title.

And there's a good chance that they have a roster that can do that this year.

Yeah, Sonny *** has aura.

I don't know if you agree with that.

I think he does.

Oh yeah, he's cool.

He's like got a very calming yet stern and confident demeanor about him.

And I think it's interesting because Sonny *** was at SMU and he went to TCU and when he went to TCU, he basically took his entire plan with him.

And they found so much success so early in his tenure and for worth.

And then shortly after that, things have changed dramatically and how you're about going about your business.

So, you know, certainly find him to be a fascinating guy.

And the thing I like, I've always appreciated about him since he was the offensive coordinator at Arizona when I was a student reporter is that he's always just very frank and you know, has a lot of candor in his words.

So he's good at telling you how he feels.

And so you're going to hear how Sonny feels about a lot of things.

The Taylor Sheridan TV universe for one because he gets to hang with all those people in four words.

He's like friends with Billy Bob now.

I spoiled it a little bit, but it's amazing story.

Oh, it's a good story.

And also just dealing with competing in this environment now because TCU does not have a billionaire benefactor that they do have some wealthy donors.

And so you'll wear to the horn frogs fit in all this and Sonny Dikes has some definite opinions about what needs to be done to create a little bit more balanced competitive environment.

And we'll see if he can get what he wants, but he's pretty clear about what he thinks needs to happen.

Here's Sonny Dikes.

We are joined by TCU coach Sonny Dikes and I get an update for, so we had your quarterback on a few months ago.

And he's, you know, Jaden Craig, Harvard transfer, Northeast guy.

He said he wasn't sure if he's ever going to become a boot guy.

I hear he is getting his first pair of boots.

So is he now in a official horn frog now?

I think he's about to be.

Okay.

Until he puts him on, I don't know that he is, but he's got, I think he got an NIL deal with the boot company so fired up for him to.

I hope we had something to do with that.

I think we broke her that because we said like Luckezi, like, should we stop them?

I believe it's the cover.

I think you're right.

Well, yeah.

Where is Luckezi?

I'm waiting for those guys to show up.

Come on, Luckezi.

They're right downstairs.

Yeah.

Well, it's funny because Brent Key who coaches at Georgia Tech, Big Boot guy, I asked him, did you *** that rattlesnake yourself?

And he said, no, but Luckezi did for me.

Yeah.

The snake ones are the expensive ones, right?

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, whatever they have on the rack, it's cheap and on sale, those are the ones they've got.

Yeah.

Well, four or five words kind of become the mecca of.

It is.

It's landman.

You better have about six pair of boots.

So have people dressed differently now to lean into that?

I know they always have a certain sub-sector people that always dress that way.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know about people, but in the dikes household, we certainly have.

Yeah.

I mean, we've gone full Yellowstone landman just so you know.

Yeah.

Okay.

I got to ask you, as everybody who watches the show knows, Ari and I have seen every episode of landman mostly twice.

In for worth, how close is the approximation that they have on land?

Is it really what living in for worth is like?

You know what?

In some ways, yes.

Okay.

Now, not everybody's house as big as John Ham's house was or whatever, but that's supposed to be Cody Campbell anyway.

Which is hilarious.

You know what?

It's actually not supposed to be.

Oh.

It's supposed to be Tex Moncreef.

Oh.

So, that's-- So, that's-- Who's the name is on Texas is a-- Yeah.

So, I believe his wife, Texas passed on and Demi Moore is supposed to be Kit and Kit is the chairman of the board.

Oh, that's what it is.

Cooper is supposed to be the-- Yeah, so we're trying to let's put it out the financial-- Okay.

That makes you-- Yeah, yeah.

So, that's kind of my idea is the Moncreef.

But I do got a good Billy Bob Thornton story.

Oh.

So, I ran into Billy Bob.

So, you're going to tell you they're all out.

All these shows.

They just like are all out and forth.

Yeah.

And they're out and forth.

We're at the Rannon Tomb at the Bowie House, which is like a restaurant bar hotel.

The Rannon Tomb, my wife knows Nicole Sheridan a little bit and Kit Moncreef is with them, comes to town with us.

I sit down with Billy Bob an hour and a half later.

You know, his dad was a high school football coach in Arkansas.

We knew all the same people.

Oh, wow.

Exchange phone numbers and now we're buddies.

And so, it's been-- That's been pretty cool.

Yeah, I mean, he was a football coach.

He's a very-- Billy Bob is a very recognizable football coach for us Texas.

Yeah, West Texas.

And the whole thing-- And you know what was interesting is Gary Gaines, who he played in that deal, actually left a desiper me and went and coached my dad at Texas Tech.

And so Gary Gaines, I'd known Gary my whole life.

Yeah.

And so, you know, we had a lot of things to talk about Billy Bob and I did.

Yeah, so I wonder how we can weaponize that friendship for you.

We can talk about that.

I got some ideas.

Well, so when you bump into Ali Larder, just let me know.

Well, you know what?

She was actually not Ali, but the daughter was in our practice facility, practicing with our cheerleading squad one day.

And as you can imagine-- Do they actually use the TCU cheerleader squad to help her-- They do.

They do.

They figure out the whole.

Did your players drop everything?

Yeah, they cause quite a lot of money.

Yeah, yeah.

People run around the office and all this stuff.

I was like, what's going on?

Yeah, the thing about the Sheridan universe is that there's probably 900 more of the similar shows that were worth it.

This is a short-term thing.

Yeah, and then believe it or not, Linus is actually filmed in the neighborhood.

A lot of it's filmed in the neighborhood that we live in.

Yeah.

Linus is supposed to take place in Washington, DC.

And I watch the show and I'm like, yeah, that's our next door neighbor.

And that's the guy down the street.

Yeah.

Now your house, because a little birdie told us your house is very close to campus.

We are, yeah.

We have two LNCWA rules work.

Yeah.

House is very close to campus.

An official recruits, yeah.

You're around.

And so we did that within a mile intentionally.

And yeah, so we have a lot of players on campus.

But yeah, we're right in the middle of it all.

So they're filming Landman, they're filming Linus, they're filming the new Frisco King, they're filming.

And Frisco King makes no sense to me.

Yeah, all the stuff.

What's not over it?

You're going to have like a mob infested Walmart.

I don't know what's going on.

But it'll be, can I come out and just ask the question because I just have, this is all I think about in my job.

But you watch these shows.

I'm afraid of you know, obviously what tech is doing and stuff.

Like, there's so much money out there.

Like, how does TCU access some of this?

Well, it's interesting.

And I think, I mean, I think it's like anything else.

There's, there's, you have people that have been very successful and we've certainly have our share of those people at TCU.

And it really bottom line comes down to how do they want to spend their money.

And what do they, what do they want to do with their money?

And it's uncomfortable to try to urge people to do something, right?

Well, I think they're comfortable doing something to a limit, you know, and I think that like anything else, I mean, quite frankly, our people are like, okay, look, there's limits on what we're supposed to do and what we can't do.

And we're not going to go above that.

And so that's been their kind of approach, which has been different than some other people's approach.

So you still manage to put together a very competitive roster.

And I like, we watch your guys come in today and see the kind of bodies you've got on your roster.

Yeah.

You've got future NFL players and certainly a roster that can be very competitive in this league.

So how do you make sure you keep doing that?

Well, I think doing it the way that we do it.

To look, we're not in a situation where we can, you know, play somebody on Saturday and say, okay, we're going to take their three best players in, you know, in money weapon and bring them to our team next year.

And then we're going to do the same thing with the team that we play next week.

I mean, that's just not how we're built.

So what we do is we have to go do a really good job evaluating high school players.

We have to do a really good job recruiting those players.

We have to do a really good job developing those guys.

And then we put most of our money into retaining them.

And I think we've been able to do that.

If you look at us over the last three years, we've lost three starters to the transfer portal.

You know, we lost, you know, Don Williams a couple years ago went to Oklahoma.

We lost obviously Josh last year and then we lost a center that went to Miami the year before that.

Yeah, Brachemir.

And so we've lost, those are the only three starters that we've lost in the portal in three years.

So that speaks a lot about TCU.

I mean, the kids love going to school there.

They love being a part of that campus community.

Speaks a lot about Fort Worth.

It might run a day inslee.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Fort Worth's making a huge national.

There's a lot of things right now.

There's a lot of things like about Fort Worth.

I've never been to Catillman's Ranch.

I would like to go there.

Yeah.

Catillman's restaurant's awesome.

I'm going to go there and I'll fight for the aesthetic.

I came in today.

He's on their website just looking at their cocktail.

We'll be, I know that like they have a show a lot.

They have a private club downstairs.

Have you been there?

Right.

I've been.

I've been there.

A lot of some landmains film.

There was a fight scene film in a booth that I sit in down there.

Do you think that Billy Bob is telling people that he met you and you guys are friends now?

Absolutely doubt it.

Yeah.

But the thing that I find fascinating is it feels like a decade ago that we were in the pre-NIL or it would be.

And now at the same time it really wasn't that long ago and at the end of that NIL switch you guys were in the national title game.

I'm wondering how does building your team feel different now and obviously that was an incredible run, something you'll probably remember for the rest of your life, but how realistic is it based on food chains and financials to repeat something?

You know what?

That's a good, honest question and I'm going to try to give you a good honest answer.

You know I don't know what's going to happen with this stuff.

You know what I'm saying?

I don't know how it's going to play out.

I don't know if we're going to get some of this spending under control.

My hope is that we do and for a number of reasons because what we're going to find I think is that we're going to find kids that have transferred from school to school to school for money.

And that money is going to disappear and then those kids are going to be 30 hours sort of getting a degree.

And then what are they going to do?

You know what I mean?

And some of them are going to go play in the NFL but the numbers are the numbers.

One and a half percent get a second contract of power for players.

And so 98 and a half percent of them aren't.

And then what are these kids going to do?

I mean they have some money that they ran through or maybe they did and maybe they saved but it's not going to be enough to sustain them.

And more than likely they're not going to want to spend that money to go back to whatever school they're closest to graduating from.

So I think we're going to have a serious problem here in two or three years where we look back at this and we say you know this was supposed to be a very player friendly era and it's about time that we actually paid the employees.

You know what I mean?

It just should have happened 30 years ago in College Football.

There was no other situation in the world where the talent didn't get paid.

But we've rectified that and I think we've gone so far the other way that I'm afraid you know some of these kids this might end up being the most that they ever make in their life.

And how does that affect their mental health?

I think most people and their self esteem and all the different things you know and I think I just think we've got to be mindful of that.

And so I think it would be good for everybody if we could get the spending under control.

I don't know that anybody's worried about the kids, thinks about the impact it's going to have on the kids, whatever everybody's trying to win and I get that.

This is a competitive thing, College Football is the most competitive thing in the world.

But at some point you do have to have a little concern about the young people and make sure that you're dealing with them in a manner that's going to benefit them not just now but for a long time.

Yeah I never thought about it this way but there aren't a lot of people on earth that make the most that they're ever going to make when they're 20.

No.

And I think in a G.T.V.

Stars and that child works.

Yeah and how's that going to affect their mental health and their state of mind?

Like you said in their self esteem.

You know when you sit there and you go well you know I don't have a degree now what I'm going to do and you know I made all this money and okay there's got to be something wrong with me.

I mean just all those things and I think we better start having those conversations and thinking about the impact that's going on.

And you talked about the employee thing and I talk about this that was Swini back in January and he obviously very much changed his thinking on this and was saying okay make them employees do the collective bargaining do all that.

How do you convince the people you work for to do that because they're the ones that are fighting.

Yeah I mean that's certainly the best answer because what you can get is you can get a model that has proven to work for the last 100 years the NFL model.

You know what I mean and they have collective bargaining.

Everybody understands exactly what they're getting into.

There's no lawsuits.

There's no suing.

There's no finding a judge that you know is going to be sympathetic to your cause.

There's none of that stuff.

You know you have somebody that's in charge and somebody says yes or no and there's rules.

And guess what if you don't follow the rules you get punished and what a novel idea.

And again the thing that we're teaching our players and I hate this is we're teaching our players look if you ain't cheating you ain't trying.

And is that really what we want to teach young people.

And so I mean I think we got to think about all this and if we could get to collective bargaining the reason nobody wants to do it I think is because it's going to be expensive.

Yeah.

Because you're going to have insurance and you're going to have you know 401Ks and you're going to have all these things but to me it's the only way that it gets you.

It's expensive now.

It is.

And it's only getting more expensive.

It's going to get more expensive than the other alternative.

Well and I think so and I think what happened was I think when revenue sharing happened everybody goes okay revenue sharing that's that's $22 million that's a lot of money but we can live with that.

Well now it's $22 million and then it's you know $15 for football plus another third if you want to be competitive.

And now it would be much more of a bargain to collective bargain in my opinion.

Yeah and plus all the things that are kind of moving expenses which are lawsuits and all the other things.

Exactly.

Yeah exactly.

So I just changed this five or five rule they're going to have to wind up seven.

They're going to settle lawsuits with that.

I'm sure they are and then I'm sure there's guys lined up right now to sue them as soon as they get there and it's just yeah at some point you say okay like this doesn't work.

Yeah you know you know you we've got a five year old suit.

I would get tired of being sued.

I've never been sued.

Yeah.

I've been threatened when I moved to California I got I got sued.

I've never been sued before and you know you live in the Bay Area for why you're going to get sued.

Wow.

But we have to ask because we had Jayden Craig on a few months ago.

What's it like to have a quarterback who's probably smarter than you?

Probably.

I mean hard for them.

Yeah.

That's a big deal but like also somebody who was viewed as a potential NFL guy.

Yeah.

You know what I what's cool about Jayden I mean look there's there's people that are book smart all the time and you run to those guys and you go this guy you know has no functional intelligence whatsoever.

What I love about Jayden Jayden is incredibly self aware and how many times do you say that about young people?

I mean he knows what his strengths are he knows what his weaknesses are.

He has he just knows who he is he's comfortable with it.

He doesn't try to be somebody that he's not.

There's no errors.

I mean he doesn't put on any errors about you know I'm this I'm that I'm the savior of the program.

None of that.

I mean he showed up.

He went to work.

He went to earn everybody's respect.

He's glad when he was asked to lead.

He's kept his mouth shut when he should keep his mouth shut.

He's just handled things the way adults handle things and and or they're supposed to handle things and so he's been incredibly impressive and and again you mixed out with the book smarts so that he got some special.

Well one actual football question.

Yeah we go you you've been on both sides of this game on the first weekend that everybody watched.

Yeah you played D on it his first game and you lost.

Yeah you played Bill Bell checking his first game and you guys have the huge win that everybody sees.

Yeah.

You're doing a week zero against North Carolina.

We're going to be so excited to see it because first first game we've seen in months and months.

How much does that do for your program to have that many people watching?

Well I think it can be good you know I think if you go out and you play well it can be good.

I think that was obviously good for us last year.

The one thing I do know I know this will be a different North Carolina team.

You know I know I know I never went on Bill Bell checks a good football coach.

I mean one of the best that's ever done this.

His team from year one to year two is going to make a huge jump.

That's just what well coach teams do.

His team is going to do that.

Bobby Patrinos now is play collar on offense.

Bobby in my opinion is one of the elite play collars in all football not college football.

Pro football college football whatever it is.

He's good.

Those two guys together with that kind of experience that kind of know how Bill run the defense Bobby run the offense.

That's a dangerous combination and you know they're going to be a year.

A lot of lessons they've learned in the last year and the way to communicate to players and expectations and all the things.

So I think we're smart enough to understand that it's going to be a completely different North Carolina team than the one we saw last year.

I can't wait to see it.

It'll be fun.

We'll be watching football and it's going to be here 53 days for now.

That's right.

Soon enough.

A lot of a lot of stuff has to happen in between those two things but we're looking forward to it.

We are too.

Okay.

Thank you guys.

Thank you.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Thank you.

All right.

So Sunday, I think North Carolina is going to be a better version of the team than the one, the horn frogs crushed in Chapel Hill last year.

Head MGM has installed TCU as a six and a half point favorite week zero in double and Ari.

It seems like a pretty good opportunity to me for who?

For people on on TCU or for people in North Carolina.

Yeah.

Andy, I'm like on a high lookout too that like Jaden Craig turns out to be maybe a top quarterback in the entire big 12 this year.

I'm excited to see.

I mean, we had him on the show.

He was awesome.

Exactly what you'd expect the Harvard grad quarterback to sound like.

And we saw him at big 12 me days.

I don't know if I appreciated fully how big he is until I saw him in person.

He's a big dude.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know.

I put together some of the clues of what people say in between the lines a little bit.

And it's just like TCU couldn't run the ball last year and upgraded some lines and it's going to be emphasizing right in the ball while also adding a guy who was an NFL prospect to the quarterback position against the team that they beat by 100 without being able to run the ball.

Like, I don't know.

You know, it's very early in picking games in Andy.

I know that you remember last year.

I had a very rough go of it.

So we'll see.

But like I think that TCU is a team that should be athletically and maybe even schematically.

Maybe that's schematically is not right because Bill Bella checks the other coach, but like.

And so that's in this situation.

You got Bob, you know, the new OC at North Carolina, Gordon Samus, the new the new OC at TCU.

So the offense is going to look different.

Neither team really knows what the opposing offense is going to look like.

So I think that's that's going to be a surprise for everybody.

Are it it's still by the way, still over a month and a half away.

It feels so much closer, but it's still it's still a while.

Did you have that little bit of a hangover when you realized that like walking out of big 12 media days that it actually still is kind of far away?

Because like when you're in that environment, you're like games next week and then it's like, oh, well, it's actually six points.

But there's practice in three weeks.

That's it.

Practice in three weeks.

And then there's a month or three weeks of practice.

But, you know, I think that the most interesting thing to me, Andy, from the entire event.

And you know, the cool thing about this event, just to bring people behind the curtain is that we did record interviews with coaches and certainly, you know, like sunny dikes we had on.

But we met with all but one big 12 coach for 15, 20 minutes and just had informal discussions to help like our understanding of what's going on in the sport to help us talk about it.

And you know, I think that the fun thing about this and maybe the weird thing about this now is that these coaches admit that they know less about their opponents now than they ever have before.

And you know, that's certainly something that you think about in an inter-conference play.

But how much could sunny dikes possibly know about North Carolina?

You know, there's a lot of change.

I'm much, I mean, they they can go over the players that North Carolina acquired in the transfer portal.

But that's pretty much it.

I mean, like, and in the same field of North Carolina, like they can watch Jayden Craig tape from Harvard and they can watch Connecticut's offense from last year, which is where TCU's Oc came from.

But you don't see it all together.

It's not like before where if you had a team that had a bunch of returning starters, over the summer, you could have your, you know, your staff breaking that down and have a pretty good idea what your game plan was going to be.

I think it's more of you got to figure out what you do well and lean into that early in the season before you ever figure out what everybody else can do.

Yeah.

You know, I think that it's interesting because sunny dikes was probably viewed as a mastermind is recently as three years ago.

And of course, TCU hasn't put on the field what they did until they ultimately lost the Georgia national championship, you know, a ways back.

But I do believe that sunny dikes is a very good coach.

He's a great a talent evaluator.

And, you know, I think the biggest thing here is that you know that TCU's floor as a program is probably a lot higher than North Carolina's floors a program.

But we're still trying to find out what North Carolina's ceiling might be.

They have a lot of new players as you would anticipate, but what are the caliber of athlete that North Carolina brought in?

Because as we discussed the day that Bill Bella check was hired, you know, you could be the greatest wizard in the history of football when it comes to X's and O's.

But if you don't have the type of player necessary, and Andy, you pointed this out when we were on the turf at the star yesterday.

It's like TCU's got NFL bodies, you know, they're athletic, you know, and especially on the line of scrimmage, like they're big and athletic on the D line.

They have offensive lineman that look like they can play on Sundays like that.

That's and that's not universal in the big 12 by the way.

That's right.

We know Texas Tech has that Utah has that BYU has that.

I think TCU has that too.

I'm not sure how many other teams in the big 12, you're going to say that about.

I think we were able to say that about Oklahoma state since an ad is offensive line certainly fits that profile.

But it's hard to say, you know, how complete all these rosters are.

By the way, just while we're talking about offensive lineman and since an ad, I ate the pancakes for dinner last night.

I made them.

They gave us a box.

So I, yeah, I got a box of pancake mix and special syrup from Cincinnati to celebrate their offensive line.

I showed it to you on the show yesterday.

The syrup would not fit, you know, was too many ounces for me to take.

You hate the security and you ***.

You ate it.

I hated it.

Yeah.

I mean, we got home late last night.

I did.

It took about an hour and 10 minutes to get back from the start.

I was just like, I don't really have anything here.

And I was like, wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

I can't, Kit.

And it was actually quite delicious.

I don't know what the batter was.

Maybe it was biscuit, this quick.

I don't know what it was, but it's a special blend.

It was a special bear cat blend.

It tasted like it tasted like bear cat dominance.

So thanks to Cincinnati for being wonderful hosts this week.

But we know we did spend time with their offensive lineman.

And I don't think that people appreciate including myself who's been covering this the sport for going on 20 years now.

How thick and big these linemen are.

Like they are like big humans.

So I'm a big man in terms of like how I stack up against other people that don't play college football.

And then you sit at a dinner table next to a tackle or a defensive tackle or somebody at dinner.

And it's just like that person's three times.

Evan Tingistall is 323 pounds.

Like he's and he is a an all big 12 guard.

Could be an all American this year.

Like.

And not that though.

Right.

And people you think, Oh, that guy is 280.

No, no, he's 40 pounds heavier than that.

And it's all muscle.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

Brick muscle.

Yeah.

But yeah.

You know, but sunny also it had a lot of conversations on the show.

And I thought there were a few things that were interesting about roster building and kids making money and protecting kids and all these things.

What was your prevailing takeaway from that?

Well, like protecting they.

You don't even protect anybody for money.

You need to show them how to use it.

You need to make sure they understand the tax burden and all that stuff.

But let's let's not pretend you're saving anybody by having them make less money than they're making now.

Like, that's not the point.

The point is you want to pay them less or at least control the amount you pay them so that you have a more competitive environment where you don't have certain schools that can pay significantly more than other schools.

That is something you can do.

And sunny dents address that.

Like he said, it may be actually cheaper to do the collective bargaining thing now.

Yeah.

And we've had this discussion too.

Establing the way it is.

And I think that the most important thing about this whole thing is that everybody has different takeaways about money and how it's used and stuff.

And I agree with the sentiment.

It's like giving 18 or 19 year old a million dollars isn't detrimental to their life.

You know, if some people might use it in a way.

Are there dangers inherent in it?

Yeah.

But I'm not going to do it.

I'm certainly not going to try to take that money away from that person.

And also the dangers, Andy, let's be honest, the dangers are far less dire than not having any money at all.

So, you know, it's more dangers being broke.

But I do think that the main takeaway that I have from all the financial discussions that we had and listen, the big 12 is very unique in that, you know, obviously all the conferences now are weird geographically, but like the issues that Texas tech may have and the issues that Baylor may have may be completely different even though they're not that far away.

And then of course West Virginia and Arizona are much different than TCU.

That's in a major metropolitan area.

So, and resources and wealth and what I do find interesting is of course the ability to pay players also probably has a huge impact on the geographic situation.

Like what's your population of the town that you're in or the state that you're in?

What's the job?

What do your alums do?

Yeah.

How many of them are in oil and gas?

How many of them are in tech?

Yeah.

I just think that West Virginia's financial circumstances are obviously much different than maybe a team like TCU or Texas tech.

But even though Texas tech and TCU are more similar than they are the TCU similar to West Virginia, Texas tech and TCU are also very different in how they approach this stuff.

So it's all very different.

Think of TCU had a billionaire that wanted to spend like Cody Campbell wants to spend that they would approach it.

I don't know if they don't have that.

You just did like a random R.E.

doesn't know anything about anything ranking and I like had to pick which alumni's or which places are most situated well in financial situations just in terms of alumni, metropolitan area, median income of people who live in that town or around that town.

I probably put TCU number two or three in the big 12.

I think TCU has the capability of paying quite well.

It's a matter of convincing everybody to do it.

And I don't know if I'm being influenced by the Taylor Sheridan shows that we joke about in the interview.

But I do know that there's a lot of oil.

No, no, TCU has a baler has money too.

Like baler and TCU are not that different.

SMU, which is obviously not in the same league, but they used to be in the same league.

They all used to be in Southwest Conference.

SMU is a similar profile now.

SMU's donors have been more aggressive.

And we'll see.

Well, come on.

You know, I was thinking about this.

I'm just saying, I'm just thinking about the success they've had in the ACC.

Because you said we were going to run the sunny thing today.

I've been thinking about it and I don't know the answer to this.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know for sure that you do.

This is one of the benefits of having a research diary as your co-host.

And sunny left SMU for TCU.

SMU is still a G5 team, right?

Correct.

Yeah.

And I think, Marty, the reason why he did that was because he wanted to coach in the power level, right?

He now.

Correct.

But now that they're both in the power level, what's job is better?

Like if you asked, I should have asked sunny this and I didn't think about it in a moment.

But like, what do you think is a better job?

I didn't think about that either.

I actually think Rhett Lashley may have the better job because the way the game has changed.

SMU's people are at least based on what we've seen, seem more willing to give you the resources to be more hungry too because it's been years of craving the ability to get involved.

Because remember, SMU's not getting any TV money from the ACC.

That was the deal they made.

They're like, we'll cover that.

You just let us in and let us play.

So not only are SMU's donors footing the bill for the roster and all that, they're footing the bill for the gap in TV money.

Yeah.

It would have been getting, you know, if they were a full member.

So it's a lot of money.

And the team is like competing for the conference championship already.

Like in year one, so like in year one, they went to the conference championship game.

They should have gone to it last year.

They should not have lost the cow last last year at the end of the season.

And that's funny because fundraising is all about appetite.

And like, it's, you know, you would think that TCU would have a pretty big appetite too considering the fact that they tasted the nectar of plank in the national time.

And TCU, like SMU, like SMU, when they were in the Southwest conference had situations where the NCAA came down on them for paying players.

And so it's not like that.

Their histories are all that different.

SMU got punished more harshly.

But yeah, but I think SMU is probably on the hunger scale, probably hungrier to prove itself.

And they're both recruit, I mean, like Sunny *** said this himself.

I think I read an athletic story a few years ago saying that when he went to TCU, the blueprint for building the program is exactly the same.

And the number one thing that changed when he moved was the logo, you know, so like, I mean, they're in the same general area.

What are they 30 minutes away from each other?

So like it's, but it's interesting because I have thought a lot about that, you know, access to players and stuff.

But we probably should have asked that question.

I don't know that he would have answered it.

Yeah.

Nobody I think that's probably answer us if we asked it.

Well, I mean, if you took a job that was worse than one that you left, I don't think you'd be keen to want to.

But why is it when he took it?

That's the thing.

Yes.

So, you know, but that, but the gap, even if there is one, even if SMU is 10% better, there's still both great jobs.

It's not like he made an awful move in his career.

It's just interesting that he might not have had a vision at the time.

And he was in the national championship game.

Like there's no, he's already accomplished the feat.

Like he got to the place that he left to go be a part of.

So like, you know, I just, you know, TCU is a team that I always have on high alert of popping up again.

Because A, we saw it already during a, I would say an arguably more difficult time to compete.

Now if TCU, you know, evaluates the same way that they did and, you know, get transfers back in from the DFW area and all the, you know, same general plans that they have, you know, have as a chance to flare up and be a real contender.

So and sunny thanks is a great coach.

So yeah, I'm excited to see what they do this year because I do think they could have one of the better rosters in the big 12 and now look, they got one of the tougher schedules Ross because they got to play BYU, they'll play Utah, they got to play Texas Tech, but it's still doable.

And so I can't wait to see him play in Dublin.

I want to talk about Zen AI.

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So you go to zen.ai that's zen.ai to sign up or you can head to our show notes for the direct link at zen.ai zen.ai.

Ari, it is time for the game this sweeping the nation.

I'm nervous.

Who am I?

When last we did this, I got it on clue number two.

You may get this on clue number two.

Producer River was testing it out in the office and our guy Josh Newberg, who does the recruiting videos on the rivals channel.

He got it on clue number two.

You follow recruiting very closely and when this player was being recruited, you were following recruiting very closely.

So I'm a little worried that I might have made it too easy.

Okay.

So he played circa 2010 to 2020.

That's the thing.

Something like that.

I'm going to be right back.

Yeah, makes sense, but I'm sure there are people in the o3 office that got it quickly because they remember Flint, Michigan.

There aren't a lot of players that are just from the point.

So yeah, yeah.

The.

If you hear Flint, Michigan recruit, Matin Cleves and Morris Peters, you know, the two people you think of, you know, basketball players who led Michigan state to the national title in 2000.

But Mark Imgre is probably the only football player you might think up.

Yeah.

So, yeah, well, you know, what was that 4 or 5?

That was 4 or 4.

I think you could have gotten it after 2 or 3.

You should have got to try it.

Throw it out there.

I should have I should have guessed because I Mark Imgre was in my head after Clu 2.

But that was okay.

That was my fear and you see why I made it so vague because if I had said I played running back, it would have been over.

Yeah.

But there are clues like that.

I just feel like sometimes when we're playing this game and like I love the way you do it, but like you saying he was a number 144th overall player, but the 10th rated player in his class, like to a casual, they wouldn't know that that means Alabama.

Right.

Like I was there.

I was able to survive.

I knew you would know that.

Yeah.

So, hey, you know what?

We've made it more than a month into this game and I haven't completely embarrassed myself yet.

So, you know, it will happen eventually, but I'm happy that, you know, I think you still want to get one right out of the shoot.

Yeah.

Well, that's not going to happen.

You're not going to want to do it.

Now that you've never going to write one that's going to allow you to get it on the first one.

I know.

But especially now that you have the belt, like you're not going to ever put me in the top.

Like you saw how vague my first one was I was born in Hackett, Sac New Jersey because of my dad's job.

Yeah.

There's no way.

Which battle it could have been like, is he a metal worker?

Like I didn't know.

Yeah.

I walk on two legs and breathe air.

That's what my number one clue is going to be every time.

Yeah.

But fun game.

Love to have it.

And that'll be a good clip.

All right.

Some more good clips coming from this next interview.

Rich Clark, the executive director of the College Football Playoff.

We sat down with him while we were at Big 12 Mini Days.

Now here's the thing.

Executive director sounds like you are the person who is making all the decisions, but that's not really how the College Football Playoff works.

Which is the, basically the administrator who handles everything.

He executes the plans once the commissioners decide what they want to do.

And but he's in there for all the deliberations.

And so he's been watching very closely and has watched as they've tried to decide what they were going to remember they talked about, maybe expanding it going into this season, but then they never could come to an agreement.

Now they have until December to decide what the 2027 playoff is going to look like.

And the SEC and the big 10 eventually have to agree on something or it'll just stay at 12.

Are you and I want it to stay at 12?

So I'm fine if they can't agree.

But I really appreciated Rich giving us an update on and explaining the timeline of all this.

Yeah.

And it was cool to just talk to him about it.

So why don't we let them watch the clip and then we'll get into it.

Yes.

This is Rich Clark, the executive director of College Football Playoff.

We are joined by College Football Playoff, executive director Rich Clark.

And all right.

So Ari and I have been talking about this.

You're in these rooms.

Yeah.

When all the commissioners are in there, I don't know if they're yelling at each other.

I don't know exactly.

No, no yelling.

In fact, I've never seen them yell.

And this is, I'm going into year three.

There's never been yelling.

There's been frank discussions.

But it's always been professional and collegial among the group.

I think if someone yelled, they'd get kind of, there'd be probably some blasting.

Some blasting.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, and, okay, so as someone who you're going to do the job no matter what, they have to decide how they want to handle this thing and what they want the format to be.

Do you ever feel yourself going, all right guys, can we make a decision?

Just tell me what to do.

No, no, I don't.

And here's why it is so complicated.

Like it is so complex.

The things that you have to think about, the calendar, the TV windows, the revenue, student athlete health, campus finals.

Right.

I mean, you know, it's just like there's so many things and they want to know everything.

Before they make this decision because there's no going back.

Once we go, you're not going to walk it back to 12 after that.

So I do not want them to rush.

I am ready to get our team and to move our team and galvanize us to answer whatever we can answer for them.

Do the research because we need a good decision here.

And I really want a good decision because I love 12 and I want to make sure if we're going to leave 12 team format that we go to a better.

Well, this has been my contention all I, you know, full disclosure.

We've already and I both said we like 12.

Ari was not a big fan of 12 going into it.

Then I think it kind of changed his mind.

I thought 12 was a good number.

I always thought maybe I'd like 16 better, but once I saw 12, I don't really want to see them move off of it.

But you said that it's got to be a good decision because I've been highly entertained by 12.

And it feels like only two years worth I'd like to see a little more in that.

Which I think the problem here too before you answer is that like every offseason in college football, the discussion is always here are the nine different things that are a threat to college football and the sport is going to come to an end and this *** and this and it's just like, I don't know about you.

I thought last year was awesome.

So it doesn't always have to be some existential threat that like something bad is going to happen.

And the thing that is gives me pause about it is that we're not even really deep enough into this system yet in terms of data.

We've only had one year of the current seeding system.

Oh, oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So like because the first year was kind of wacky because the seeding was messed up.

And I thought it was a highly functional year.

So it's like, that's the thing that I think is interesting.

It's like as we change it, we're so soon into this still.

I think part of this is where victims of our own success because people did love 12 and there's this tendency to want more and to go bigger.

It's like 12 is good.

16 will be better.

24 will be better.

I understand why people might think that, right?

I understand why more access is good.

But sometimes you just have to make sure that you're not going too big.

You know, because I think that's probably your, what you're, that's our resume.

That's my fear is that the dimensioning returns of that.

Because the 12 did create more meaningful games in October and November for more people.

But it was still punitive.

But I don't want to take, you know, you get so big that there's some, now you're taking a few meaningful games off the table and, you know, an exchange for something.

But as you go into the mechanizations of this and Brett, you are not talking about this a little bit in his address, they have to know that there's value in it.

The TV partners have to be willing to pay the freight for lack of a better term because if you do go that big, maybe you have to get rid of championship games.

There are other things that happen on the back end.

What's the timetable on all of that information coming in?

So we have to have a decision by December 1st.

Okay.

We have to implement this, not this coming season, but in the 27 season.

So by this December 1st, we have to have a decision if we're going to implement it at the earliest that season.

So that's one timetable.

The other one is, are basically our own limitations of, we have a meeting in September and that's really our last meeting before December.

Now, we could always have another one.

We could always do it.

But ideally, we get them the information they need by August, they meet in September and maybe they've had time to think about it, cogitate a little bit, whatever.

And then we come in September and they make a decision before December.

So that's my own sort of, no sooner, I would like to see.

But technically, we have until December 1st to make a decision.

And last year was he actually extended and then they still, yeah, extended.

They still said, well, let's just keep it.

And again, they don't want to make a bad decision though.

They want to be delivered about it.

They want to have all the information because 12 is working.

12 is good.

The thing that is interesting to me is the fluctuation and support.

It seems like sometimes, I mean, you've seen how it's evolved and I'm assuming you've seen it of all in person, but I'm thinking the room and listening to the discussions.

Do you find yourself being swayed back and forth between the pluses and negatives of them?

And I'm not going to be making the decision ultimately, but you're also privy to all the information that everybody's desperate to know, which is what are the talking points in making that decision.

So here's how I look at this.

This may be somewhat of a cop out, right?

But I'm as serious as I can be.

I was in the military for a long time.

And there's times when you go into a lead.

Did you say that's classified?

Not anymore, but if it was, I'd have to.

But so you go into a room and your boss says, okay, what are our options to execute this mission?

And you give them these three options.

And maybe there's one that you like more than the other.

And you put your heart into that one and you love that one.

And then your boss says, okay, I want that one.

Not the one that I liked, but a different one.

Now you've kind of sold yourself on this.

You've put your emotions and everything into it, but now you've got to go execute this one.

It's really kind of hard to do, right?

Because you're like, man, this is not the right, you know.

I go into it with the pros and cons of all three and I go, this is what, you know, I give my best military advice.

This is what I think we should do.

However, I'm ready to execute whichever one you pick.

Whichever one of these three is the choice, I'm going to execute it violently and make it good.

This is how I feel here.

I honestly feel like whichever of these choices that they pick, I'm going to, I'm going to, my team, all of us are going to own it and we're ready to do it.

And we've looked at it and if it was something that was a showstopper or something that we thought, this is going to keep us from making this great, we would have told them already.

We would already put that out there.

So I will say, for me, I haven't really swayed.

I am wedded to the one that we're in.

Right now, I love 12.

I know everything.

I know the ins and outs of it.

Our team knows the ins and outs of it and we really like it.

But we also have researched the other two pretty extensively and we feel very confident that we could execute either of them in good fashion.

Are there three models on the table, 12, 16, 24 or are there more different machinations within the two other numbers?

There's, so 12 and 16, we've pretty much narrowed 16 down to one format that it would look like.

24, there's, there's a couple of ways to look at it, but I think we're leaning towards a particular format for that one too.

So I would say there's one machination for 16 and there's a most likely one for 24.

You know, on this podcast, I've had a long history of asking *** questions.

So I'm at the risk of doing it again.

I want, I've always wanted to understand this.

And you made this comment earlier, which you said, well, once we make this decision, there's no going back.

Why is that the case?

What if you make the wrong decision at 24?

Are there some negative returns or things that happen from a television viewing standpoint that we're unaccounted for?

Why is it so impossible to go back to a system that we know works?

Well, I would say, I guess no going back might have been too strong.

We don't want to have to go back.

You don't want to, you don't want to walk it backwards with a decision like that because you've are, now you've, you've granted access, you've given access to a, you know, a lot of teams now.

We're taking the Christmas presents out of them.

Now you're taking it away.

Well, I also think it's human nature.

Yes.

People don't tend to.

But if you track those things.

The thing that I guess is interesting about this is that the number one fear because you're going and doing all your due diligence and I know that like there are television models and things about viewership of what it would look like and all the research is there.

But there is a line in the sand where there is diminishing returns.

And the biggest fear that I understand from sitting out in the hallways, I'm not in the room, is that there's a fear that you step over that line unintentionally.

And I just never understood that if you ended up doing that, like how you couldn't remedy it if we know there's something that works.

But then what's the point of taking the risk if you have, I mean, there's a lot, it's a so.

Well, and if this point too, if they go to 24, there's a chance you're selling to another TV network.

You're going to have multiple rights agreements that last for an X number years.

For years.

You can't really at that point.

Yeah.

Definitely, we would have sold those extra games to somebody.

Like someone would have bought those and we would have already had a media deal and were locked into a contract.

Now at the end of that deal, you could walk it back.

But again, now you're reducing the access now.

You're walking back what we've presented.

And you're right, you could do it, right?

Especially if it was really bad and we really needed to go back.

I'm sure you can always go back, never say never.

It's just not a good look.

And that's why you got to put your best foot forward the first time.

And that's why they're being real deliberate and slow about this.

So like what, I mean, we don't have to rush into this.

And so.

And the current deal, we've only had one year of the current media rights deal, right?

So that, no, this is the first year of the.

No, this is the first year.

This is the first year.

The last two were the last two were the last two were the old deal.

That's right.

So there's six years of this format if that's what they choose to do.

Right.

So I would assume that gives you a little bit of patience there.

It does.

But I also, I do think though, the commissioners, they want to be deliberate, but they don't want to take forever because they know.

They don't want to go for your period of these questions.

They know that people are anxious.

People want to hear this.

People don't want to look at them as being indecisive.

I mean, they don't want that.

They don't want that.

And there's a balance between being deliberate and being indecisive.

I don't think they're at the indecisive place yet.

I don't think we're there.

I think we're still in the deliberate phase.

Yeah.

And they do have a few months to go.

So we'll see where we land.

But I think we're moving in a good direction.

It would be ever thought to just say, Sanky Petiti right here.

Arm wrestle, figured out.

Oh, that'd be good.

Best two or three.

Yeah.

Well, you know, maybe if they don't get it done by December 1st, it's like maybe on, maybe on November 29th, we go look, okay, we don't have an answer.

We need one by tomorrow.

So let's.

I know we got to get you out of here, Rich.

I just wanted to ask one last question because I'm personally curious about this.

And Andy and I talk about this a lot.

The sport itself outside of the CFP is changing drastically in front of our eyes.

And it has the last few years.

In fact, if you would have done the 12 team model in 2009, I don't think it would have made sense with the way that the sports set up based on how the teams are in balance.

Yeah.

So how do you guys measure how many teams could win the national championship in 2033?

And is that taken into account in the meetings?

Because the reason why I hated 12 when we left is because at the time we left, four, there were really only 16 teams that were going to win the national title every year.

So what's the point of doing it now?

Now it might be 15 years.

Right.

Yeah.

But we don't know because this is still so early in the evolutionary process of where college football itself is heading that you want to have a system in a playoff system that fits that.

But we don't know where it's going.

Is that something that is, or am I just galaxy braining?

No, I think there's something to be said there.

I mean, even how many teams could win in 2027?

You know, that's a question, right?

And it's going to be different in six years, right?

It's going to be different.

But we just saw Indiana win the national title.

Right.

That's right.

Our minds are very open to the possibilities now.

Yeah.

And it's a great question.

I think that what the commissioners view on this, though, I know at least a couple of them view this as if, OK, if you go to 24, you may have some of those early games where you don't have teams.

But you know that you're going to have enough opportunity for any team that could win the national championship to be in it.

And they will be in it for sure.

And you don't run.

You know, last year, honestly, there were five teams that could have been in the playoff.

Like that weren't there were five teams that got left out that could have been in the playoff.

I think that's a plus for the 12.

I think the fact that there was danger and that a team that might have been capable of winning the national title and more multiple teams.

That's what Notre Dame, Utah, BYU, what did you ever want you're choosing here that they got left out that added drama to the regular season?

Yeah.

That's the thing.

It's like if you overdo it.

And it's like, OK, well, we got everybody in, but there's six teams that aren't frankly good enough.

Then there's no diminishing or I mean, there's no punitive damages for losing.

And that's the thing that's scary.

But I also understand like I talk to these ADs and everybody wants to hang up there.

We made the way we've made the CFP this many times.

Yeah.

You know, and here's.

So here's the thing that gets me.

And I'm probably speaking a little bit out of turn, but when people go, you know, open it up so that, you know, you're being judged on whether you make the playoff or not.

So open it up to 24.

Now there's less judgment because people are making it.

Well, you know, the judgment's going to be that you get past the first round.

Yeah.

You know, they're going to, the judgment's going to change.

Well, yeah.

I mean, you know, if Hubert Davis didn't get credit for making the tournament because he's the North Carolina coach, every school has its own sliding scale.

So, yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

So, you know, but I'll be honest, I tend to think if we do go to 24, if we do go to 24, that the first round at least initially could be a bit problematic, maybe I don't know because you're going to have, you know, those top or those last eight teams, 17 to 24, 17 to 24.

Yeah.

Yeah, the part of the bracket they fast forward through right now on the show.

Yeah.

Right.

You know, we'll see.

Right.

But I do think though, after that, you know, if we, if we went to 24, after a couple of years, that's going to sort itself out.

And teams are going to start going and the selection committee and college football is going to go, this matters.

You know, like we need to, teams are going to rise to the occasion.

And I, my hope is that teams will go, look, we can get in the playoff.

Now we need to get ready to win it.

Like now we need to do what it takes to win.

And maybe the quality of those teams rises, you know, and people rise to the occasion.

I felt like the competition this year and the 12 was better than last year.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

And I wonder.

And I wonder, and I wonder to myself, well, is it because now people are going, look, this is, this is the mark now.

And people tend to rise to the occasion on things.

And I'm wondering, if we go to 24, does that make teams, you know, does that make more teams now rise to the occasion?

I don't know the answer to that.

I have nothing scientific behind that.

But human nature is people rise to the occasion.

Yeah.

And the truth is the fact is that the teams that are one through four are as good as they used to be either in terms of a talent accumulation standpoint.

So it all is very interesting.

But, you know, a lot of people are very interested in this.

And it's a huge, huge decision.

I know.

So next time you're in that room and we're on the hallway, getting Jimmy Jones delivered, just tell him, don't mess it up.

Get this right.

Well, come on.

That's right.

I was just saying, arm wrestling is the way to solve it.

I don't know.

Seki does a lot of the like, crossfit type stuff.

And Petit is pretty wirey.

So I don't know.

Maybe they just need to count it on.

All the contests from all school.

I think that's the way to go.

Yeah.

Well, but they're pretty collegial.

So I imagine they're going to talk it out.

I mean, they're going to figure this out.

So it'll be good.

We appreciate it, Rich.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, I appreciate you having me.

Good luck.

And I know those are long days.

And this was a long day.

It was great.

Yeah.

Thank you, guys.

Thanks for what you do for college football too.

Appreciate you.

Okay, Ari.

I am not super confident about the staying at 12.

Did you get that too?

Well, you have to hope that they get to the point where Seki and Petit are in wrestle and Seki wins.

So just so people understand, like Rich Clark isn't the person making this decision.

Right.

So whatever they have their meetings in Dallas, I drive out there and I sit in the lobby with reporters waiting for them to come out and tell us nothing.

But he's in the room listening to the deliberations and hearing how thorough they are.

And I truly do believe, and you should too, that the reason why it's taking a long time is because it's a very complicated change.

And they are doing their best from a due diligence standpoint to understand every angle there is before making the decision.

But you can also get a sense of how the things are going in the room based on some of the things that Rich Clark was saying.

And like at the beginning of the interview, Andy, and I'm sure you picked up on this in person, but he kept talking about, you know, we really think that this can work.

Or we really feel like 24 can work.

And I'm not sure he would have said that publicly a year ago.

Yeah.

Here's the thing about 24.

They're not going to go to 24 unless the dollars and sense work out.

Because if you go to 24, you're probably ditching the conference championship games.

So you're probably going to need to make enough money to make the SEC whole for having to give up its conference championship game to make the big 10 hole for giving up its conference championship game.

And they have not gotten the valuation yet from the potential TV partners.

But that math works.

And this is the thing.

If you actually go back and listen to Greg Sanky, the SEC commissioner, who does not want 24, he would rather have 16.

If you go back and listen to what he said, he's never said they definitely won't do 24.

He's basically said, we'll see.

We like having our championship game.

We think it's a value of.

Yeah.

I mean, you have to also keep in mind, too, that of all the championship games that exist.

The SEC one still seems to be the most important one.

It's the most valuable one for sure.

Yeah.

So he's more married to that than others might.

But if the math were to work out where they are actually made whole, I don't know how precious they would be about it.

Yeah.

And so the math has to work out in terms of television deals and the bids for the extra games that you'd be getting would far away what you're already getting in that weekend.

But I think that, you know, it was also refreshing to hear Rich Clark say what we feel, which is we really like 12.

Like he said, he's all in on 12 and has enjoyed 12.

And I think that's the hardest part.

And he's probably thinking about it in terms of his own job.

If they suddenly decide they're going to do 24 and he's got to figure out logistically how to make all that work, his job's about to get a lot harder.

Well, I think the hardest part about this, it's the toughest pill to swallow.

And he alluded to it too, is just that we're not, we're in the infancy of this.

So if we enjoyed how it went, like the change is happening so quickly potentially after a system is born.

And I know that the playoff system is over a decade old now, but this new system is very young.

And the first year, like you said, in the interview, only one year with this version.

Yeah.

We've only had one year of it actually being functional in the way that it could have been for two.

So if last year was an abject failure, if last year ***, I can understand what we got to figure something out.

But the other thing too, Andy, is that we actually had a system in place that had good games.

There was a good, there were some first round blowouts, but if you are- Or so second round blowouts.

And if you would have asked me when me and I were at the athletic, and I was in these podcast screaming back and forth at you about 12, how many years it would take with the knowledge that I had in 2020 for the 10 seed to advance to the national championship game?

I would have looked at you and said, it's never going to happen.

And it happened in the first year of functional seeding in the 12.

So it's just like a very interesting dynamic.

And I get the same- Yeah, the 8 seed won the first year.

And the wonky seeding rules that Ohio State should have been the 6 seed the first year.

The 6 seed, I mean, the team that would have been the 6 seed won.

So like you wouldn't have said that.

Yeah.

You were yelling at me about 12 or what I would have said is if the 8 seed is LSU who had a few weird loss at the beginning of the year because they had a problem and then they figured it out.

You know, like that.

But not lost to a 5 loss machine team.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

But obviously the type of team that ended up winning as the 8 seed was the type of team that dominated the sport before.

Correct.

So, but Indiana was probably more like we need to do, but there's no way in *** we predicted that.

Not even before last year did we predict that.

So, but you did get the sense though that it's going to happen, right?

Like I don't know.

I got the sense from him that it seems pretty imminent.

I think if the numbers work, it's going to happen.

And I don't think the big 10 pushes this hard without knowing the number.

The numbers are going to work because Fox is pulling the strings there.

So I do, I do think.

Well, maybe the research has to come from the television companies to decide.

Yeah, we might get all these extra inventory at the end of the year.

But what if we lose our *** on advertising in weeks one through six?

Like they have to figure that out because it might not make my financial sense for them.

They convinced those schools to schedule better games.

Yeah.

Which one for sure.

So one more speaking of interesting games week one.

Notre Dame and Wisconsin are playing at Lambo Field.

Notre Dame a 20 and a half point favorite.

But now we know how Wisconsin is going to look for this game.

We got the Wisconsin Unis debuted on Thursday.

Red helmets.

Guys, silver numbers.

I like the culverts patch, by the way.

We have actually think that I saw a lot of people were like saying it should at least be like color.

I think that the contrast that actually doesn't look that bad.

I love the red helmets.

And I'm normally one that if you have a, because I think Wisconsin's traditional helmets pretty awesome.

That you don't mess with it.

But I'm fine.

I like, I'm fine with reversing the color scheme.

And especially in a one off situation.

And this is a special situation.

You're planning it to Notre Dame.

I think Notre Dame actually handles the uniform stuff really well.

They have an iconic uniform.

But they're not afraid to every once in a while play with it a little bit.

Yeah, I think they ***.

But you don't like the Wisconsin ones or don't like the Notre Dame ones.

I think Notre Dame's normal uniforms are so beautiful that like if you're going to wear an alternate, you have to knock it out of the park.

And I don't think they did with the Notre Dame.

You like the green jersey.

I like the green one.

I like the alternate green.

But like they're, they're, their uniform is so iconic that, you know, I'm not a snob when it comes to like tradition.

Like I'm fine with changing it up.

But like when you change it up, it should look completely awesome.

And I don't think that these do.

And I don't like reveal to the folks what you said the Wisconsin uniform looks like.

Looks like I'm going to reveal it myself.

It looks like they borrowed it from Rutgers.

Like I don't know.

And we have seen Rutgers with red and the silver numbers before I get it.

But I think with that, with that italicized W and I think with the helmet looking the way it does.

And you know, that's the *** over your helmet.

The helmet's cool.

Yeah, I don't mind the helmet.

I just.

It is what it is.

Like it's like who cares?

It's one game.

It just podcasts listeners.

The helmet is is read instead of white with red stripes and a red W. It is red with white stripes and a silver W. And it's like a silver stripe.

Wisconsin's like also kind of in a very interesting place as a program.

So maybe if people are fired up about it, I haven't even read the message boards yet.

How have Wisconsin fans reacted to this?

Are they are they all about it?

I haven't gotten a chance to look at it either.

That was one of those I saw it and we were about to record the show and I was like, I you know what?

I kind of like that.

And you know, it is interesting because.

This is a good good question and this is something that you know, I'd be curious to hear from Wisconsin fans or from fans.

Maybe like Florida state fans.

Are you more open to stuff like this?

If you're traditionally good program is not that good right now.

If you are frustrated with the way like are you more open to experimentation with a new look?

Does it matter to you?

Are you just like, okay, I don't care.

Just figure out a way to win.

Yeah.

I wonder if you're more willing to.

To let some of this stuff go.

When all you really need is, you know, a win a spark something.

Yeah, it gives the fan base a spark as River just pointed out.

But the thing about it too is that I think that they're, you know, you saw how Nebraska reacted to their uniforms.

I like it.

Yeah.

I think as we joke, then we'll do it again now.

It's like Wisconsin's uniforms look a lot better if they're celebrating at the end of the game.

Yeah.

I think like let's say you do, okay, you're a 20 and a half point underdog at Lambogans Notre Dame.

Yeah, if you beat Notre Dame, we're in these unies.

You're bringing them back at some point.

Like they will be, they will be some fans new favorite uniform.

Yeah.

I mean, memories are in style.

I mean, it's like, if you have a six pack, you can buy a suit from Walmart and look awesome.

So, you know, it doesn't exactly matter.

It makes me wonder like, so I think my own alma mater, the ugliest uniforms Florida has ever worn.

The ones that looked like actual alligators against X and M and honestly, like 2017 or 2018.

Can't remember what year that was, but they lost.

If they, if they won that game, 35 to seven, with those uniforms, they've ever made another appearance.

Like, I hope not because they were hideous.

But I feel differently about it.

You know, I'm a weird Instagram algorithm, but there's this bombshell woman who tries on clothes from Walmart and shows everybody how awesome you can shop buying on a budget.

And it's just like the clothes are ***.

Right.

Like you're just unbelievably attractive.

Mail or female.

You're a 10.

You can shop at Walmart.

All you want, you look amazing.

Literally, you could put a garbage bag on yourself and it would look good.

Like, I mean, it's just like, that's not what it is.

So, but like go go be hot Wisconsin, like, you know, it's exactly right.

We know Notre Dame's hot.

Wisconsin, you got to figure out how to be hot, which is why no one's read it.

From what I saw, like the reaction is more Wisconsin related than it is Notre Dame.

We know Notre Dame's hot.

Like, yeah, there's uniforms look good because they're attractive.

Like you put them in anything.

But you know what?

Like I also think too that, you know, anything that gets people talking about your program is a good thing.

And, you know, as long as like if these were there everyday uniforms, that would be mortified.

But like over a one off, you know, neutral site game in the state of Wisconsin, I do think that, you know, it's not going to bother me too much.

It does.

It's just I don't like when when alternates look too much like alternates from another school in your conference.

And I think they look a lot like what Rutgers see that I don't know.

I don't really.

I didn't make the Rutgers connection as quickly as you did.

But I guess that's just personal thing because I immediately made the NC State connection with those Nebraska ones.

So it would have been badass.

And I don't know.

This would have been sacrilegious.

But what if like Wisconsin just did a Packers uniform and a Packers logo and instead of the the G being in the oval, they did like a W Wisconsin to like as an old degree in Bay.

Like that would have been like, I feel like they're just not going to be big colors.

No, no, no, Wisconsin colors.

But like put a white helmet on with the Wisconsin W inside of the shape.

I remember someone when Notre Dame played the game at Yankee Stadium and they did the pen stripes.

Yeah, like it's cool.

Wasn't it.

I wasn't my favorite one.

But I know like the thought a lot of stuff that's like really like popular in streetwear amongst kids.

Now it is to our collaborations where two brands come together.

Oh, you even saw, yeah, or like you saw even in like watches that AP did a collaboration with swatch and they created this this watch that is a plastic.

Marpegay, not Austin P, by the way.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah, out of Marpegay.

But like you could go buy one for 500 bucks and it looks like an AP and you know, people have been buying them and thought they were cool.

They did it with with Omega's moon swatch a few years ago and you know, made it more affordable and it was cool.

I don't know like the collab thing would have been fun.

Like a Wisconsin green Bay X collab, you know, underarmers.

Yeah, Wisconsin X Packers.

Yeah, it's not green Bay is a is a college.

It's also coach there.

Yeah, that is, but you know what I mean, but the X in the middle and just Wisconsin green Bay or Wisconsin Packers and do something to it's old to Lambo or something.

I like the red helmets.

I'm telling you, if you win this game, sprinkle the red helmets in, I'm okay with that.

Yeah, it's not the helmet.

It's the uniform.

Okay.

Tomorrow.

Talk to a coach whose team has beautiful uniforms.

Do I use Kalani Sataki joins the show.

Plus your questions answered dear Andy dear Ari.

We got some great questions.

We'll answer them tomorrow.

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