Why the Valkyries are Winning On and Off the Court
The Golden State Valkyries have quickly established themselves as a successful franchise in the WNBA. Brian Hamilton returns to join Sabreena for a closer look at the teams rapid rise and the blueprint behind their immediate impact. The duo breaks down the many factors fueling the Valkyries success from prioritizing the player experience and creating an electric home-court atmosphere at Ballhalla to building a competitive roster featuring lesser-known players who have made a major impact. They also examine how Golden State has maximized its talent and why All-Star Gabby Williams chose to join the franchise in free agency. Before diving into the Valkyries, Sabreena and Brian discuss Team USAs roster for the FIBA World Cup, the balance between veteran leadership and emerging young talent, and what the next generation of the program could look like. Finally, we wrap with the must-watch matchups of the weekend. No Offseason is a part of The Athletic Podcast Network: Sign up for the No Offseason Newsletter: 00:00 Intro 01:19 Team USA roster is set for the FIBA World Cup 04:12 Notable names left off the Team USA roster 07:03 Future potential names for Team USA 08:18 New faces on Team USA 12:29 The Mystics keep impressing 16:59 The state of the Dallas Wings 25:12 The principles in the blueprint of the Valkyries 28:54 Inside the Valkyries' player experience 33:15 Valkyries aim to share their model for success 43:19 How Ballhalla came to be Related links and articles: Follow and listen to the audio podcast: Get in touch! Leave a comment wherever youre listening, or email us at NoOffseason@TheAthletic.com Show Links: -YouTube: @No-Offseason -Instagram: @tanooffseason [ -TikTok: @no_offseason [ Credits: -Zena on BlueSky: @zenakeita -Sabreena on BlueSky: @sabreenajm -Chantel on BlueSky: @chanteljennings -Layshia on IG: @layshiac -Annie on X: @anniecostabile -Produced by Taneka Burrell -Executive Produced by Andrea B. Scott Visit the Yahoo Women's Sports Hub: Full Episodes Playlist: Shorts Playlist: Thumbnail: Eakin Howard / Stringer / Getty Images Sport via Getty Images Ezra Shaw / Staff / Getty Images Sport via Getty Images
Video Transcript
Can you walk us through just, like, what the guiding principle in Golden State's blueprint was?
I think it was doing everything right from the start a- and, and going above and beyond in every aspect.
And especially drilling down to, like, the player experience.
There are some advantages when the owners of the Golden State Warriors are also the owners of the Golden State Valkyries.
Hello everyone, and welcome to No Off Season.
I'm Sabrina Merchant.
And I'm Brian Hamilton.
And today on the show we're talking California basketball.
In just their second season, the Golden State Valkyries have found success both on and off the court, and we're gonna learn what this organization understood about building a WNBA franchise that others can learn from.
We're taking a deeper look at the business behind the Golden State Valkyries rise in the W. But first, welcome back to the show, Brian.
Thank you for coming back.
How are you?
Happy to be here.
I'm glad I didn't ruin everything last time, so- It's good to be surviving That's how you get the second invite, you know?
Yeah, I know.
I know.
It's a big deal.
So Brian, it's been a little while since we had you on, but you have been following the W very closely for us all season, and so we wanted to talk about the big women's basketball news of the day today- Mm-hmm which is Team USA roster dropping.
I'm sure everyone by now has seen the 12 players who have been selected for the American national team for the upcoming World Cup, which starts on September 4th.
Just in case they haven't, I'm gonna list them real quick.
That's Breanna Stewart, A'ja Wilson, Napheesa Collier, Caitlin Clark, Paige Bueckers, Jackie Young, Chelsea Gray, Kelsey Plum, Angel Reese, Aliyah Boston, Kahleah Copper, and Ryan Howard.
I guess first things first, Brian, what stood out to you?
What stands out to me is how hard it is to make this team.
I mean, we talk about the league itself being impossible to find spots in, certainly- Mm-hmm especially pre-expansion, but even still, and then you look at who's playing an extremely high level, American-born players an extremely high level this year.
Five of the 10 top player efficiency ratings belonging to American-born players, they're not on this team.
Same thing, five of the same, five of the top 10 win shares this year for American-born players, not on this team.
There's a lot of explanation for that.
Like, you know- Uh-huh you look at Olivia Miles, like she's not gonna be on this team just because of where she is in, in her career trajectory.
But to think that that level of talent isn't good enough to get a spot, I mean, it's incredible.
I mean, it definitely speaks to just the overall the, the supply almost overwhelming- Mm-hmm the demand at this point, both for the league and both for USA Basketball.
Yeah, I think the first thing that stood out to me was, this is very much like an attendance matters situation for USA Basketball.
Like, you don't come to camp, you don't get picked for these national teams.
And we heard this back in 2024 when Caitlin Clark didn't make the Paris Olympic team, when Angel Reese didn't make the Paris Olympic team because they had never been to a senior national team camp.
And you know, you look at this 2026 team, and that's why Olivia Miles is not there, 'cause she hasn't been a part of the system yet.
Yeah.
And that's where you look at the people who were at the camp at the Final Four, who were at the qualifying tournament, in Puerto Rico in March, and just the ones who have been a part of the process with Sue Bird, they tend to be the ones who get invited, you know, invited to be part of the national team, and it just makes you wonder, like, well, who gets invited to be part of the camp?
Like, are people saying no to this and they shouldn't be saying no to this?
Right.
So I guess for me, I wasn't wholly surprised by the names who were on the list just because, you know, I always track, like, who gets invited to camps and, like, there's Paige three times and there's Ryan Howard a couple times and there's, you know, Angel Reese and all the names who you've seen, make this roster.
So, I don't think that there were any, like, shocks.
I will say- Mm-hmm Napheesa Collier being on the team was kind of surprising, just because she's only played four games and I thought maybe she'd wanna rest up a little before, I don't know, trying to compete for a WNBA title in 2026.
Yeah.
Like, that feels like a lot of basketball to have to play all at once.
I think you mentioned, like, the five win share players who obviously didn't make this team, Olivia Miles being one of them.
I'm sure a couple other Minnesota Links are on that.
Yeah.
Kelsey Mitchell's kind of the name that I wanna talk about because I'm not sure if she's on the names that you were talking about, but, like, she has been an absolute firecracker, like, for the past two seasons.
The playoff run that she had with the Ind- Indiana Fever last year, how good she's been scoring the basketball this year.
I think she was just voted player of the month in July by the WNBA.
So, quite a good time to be Kelsey Mitchell, and yet for some reason has just never been a part of this USA pool.
Like, I went back through, like, camps that have happened since 2022, for USA Basketball, and I've just never seen her name there.
Yeah.
And I can't figure out if it's something that she didn't wanna do or something that, like, USA Basketball hasn't included her, which, like, if you haven't included her, what, what are we doing here?
You know?
Like, she's one of the- Right the very best guards in America.
Yeah, it's, it's weird- So yeah it's, it's weird she's got, she's at that age where she's almost, like, in the middle a little bit, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, she's not at the, the youth movement, but she's not been involved with sort of the older vets who are gonna hold it down.
Right.
But yeah, I mean, that's, like, another player who legitimately has an all WNBA case right now- Mm-hmm who's nowhere to be found.
Right.
Very perplexing.
Yeah, I think she was even, like, if not second, if not first team, then at least second team All-W last year, so, like, one of the top 10 players in the WNBA- Yep and obviously one of the top 10 American players.
So for her not to be, like, even in the discussion was kinda confusing.
You know, Caitlin McBride's been a part of this.
She's a little bit older.
Like, Natasha Howard, a little bit older.
Yep.
Like, the big group here, like, how are you making your way through Stewie and A'ja and Phe and, you know, Aliyah Boston even as, like, an outsider.
That's, that's just a very hard group to crack, so, like, I understand those exclusions.
Like, the one that was hardest for me to understand was Kelsey Mitchell.
And again, like, I wasn't expecting it because you look at the names who have been part of USA Basketball since Sue Bird took over and she's just not there.
But I think about, like, four years ago at this time, Alyssa Thomas, sort of in the same age range that Kelsey is now, was never a part of USA Basketball, like, just hadn't been.
I think she had, like, a Not that she was, like, not as good to start her career, but she hadn't gotten, like, the recognition, you know, of being one of the great WNBA players.
And then Cheryl Reeve, like, plucked her out and was like, "Hey, I think you should be a part of this program."
And she makes her debut, like, around the age of 29 for USA and then makes the Olympic team.
And obviously not part of this cycle, but you get the one Olympic team, I feel like that- Yeah you've done your job with USA, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was hoping for- Um- like, a, a similar, I don't know, come up for Kelsey.
I guess there's still time, but it's just, I, I can't imagine if she's not on this team, then, like, LA isn't the cards for her.
Yeah, I mean, and I'm- I s- always spin ahead to, you know, 'cause maybe 'cause I really wanna cover the Olympics in your backyard in a few years.
I'm thinking of who, who might be there.
But- Yeah I, I, I just think of, like, the, the roster crunch that's coming too.
I mean, we've talked about Olivia Miles, if all things being equal- Yeah like, how is she not on the Olympics team?
You know, Juju Watkins- Mm-hmm who knows where she's at on the floor when she comes back from the injury, but if she who, if she's who we think she is, she's a different kind of player to put on that team.
Yeah.
And then you start looking, well, whose spots do they take?
I mean, you're gonna have, like, a Kelsey Plum or Kahleah Copper who are not gonna be long in the tooth at that point.
They're gonna be barely into their mid-30s.
I mean- Mm-hmm s- who, who do you deny among the undeniable players moving forward?
I think that's gonna be just absolutely fascinating.
Probably has a lot to do- Yeah too, though.
Like, if they, they go to Berlin- Mm-hmm and it's just a mess, and it doesn't work- Right then you've gotta sort of, you know, recalibrate everything.
But- Mm-hmm if all the players play well together and continue on their current career trajectories, like, you're gonna have, like, you could have, like, a USA A and B team basically- Yeah.
And be really good.
Yeah.
Which is basically what we get, you know, during the, All-Star game on Olympic years- That's right which is very fun.
Always love that.
Yeah.
but yeah, we've talked, you know, about some of the players who may be, I guess, longer in the tooth and not in the LA consideration, but I think this roster is noticeable for the players who are making their debuts, and that is- Mm-hmm Caitlin, Paige, Angel, and Aaliyah Boston, all players who, in another world, like, may have made the team in 2024, right?
Obviously, Paige ends up staying the extra year in college because of torn ACL, but, like, she was always one of those names who could have been, like, rookie Olympian like Breanna Stewart was.
You know, like, Diana Taurasi was.
You know, so, I think, like, obviously there was a lot of conversation in 2024 about these players not making it.
No conversation this time around.
Like, I don't think there's any- Yeah.
Yeah you know, we talk about Olivia Miles not being in consideration, like, there, there are reasons for that.
But, I think it's pretty cool that, like, these players who, three of them were on a gold medal U19 team in 2019.
To this day, I, I know I talk about this a lot on the podcast, my favorite American international tournament that I've ever watched.
If you've never watched- the final between USA and Australia in 2019, just Google it.
It's a great time.
I think Ryan Howard's on that team actually as well.
So, I don't think there are a lot of youth national teams that produce this much talent that all get to play together at the same time again for the senior team.
But, like, that's just the kind of generation that we're talking about.
So, for a long time, I think international basketball has sort of, like, taken a backseat to the WNBA, like, because the US has been so good.
Because, you know, like, the popularity of the W hasn't broken through the way it has.
Yeah.
It just, like, the US national team's kind of an afterthought, but I think this team is gonna draw some significant interest.
Like, these are all the most- Oh popular players in the WNBA.
I, I, I don't know what obviously the viewership records are- Right for Olympic women's basketball, but they will be obliterated.
I mean, it will just be I mean, they'll pro- I mean, you could televise a practice- and people, and you'd get hundreds of thousands of people watching these women play.
I mean, that, the collective popularity of this group is off the charts.
I, I never really bought into the argument a few years ago, y- even as good as Caitlin was, like, include her because everybody wants to see her play.
I don't know that I completely buy that, you know, that line- Mm-hmm of thinking.
But now it's just, again, go back to undeniable.
Like, she's one of the best guards in the world clearly- Mm-hmm and clearly deserves to be here.
And now then you also get the benefit of everybody watching her.
Same goes for Paige Buecker.
Same goes for Angel Reese a- a- and on and on.
Yeah.
So yeah, it's a, it's a pretty, it's a pretty wild convergence.
Like, we're gonna have some viewership records in '28 and, like, maybe again in '32 and- Definitely '39.
And, like, even before we get to '28, you know, I know TNT is out of the, men's basketball business, but they have the rights to all of these international games.
So if you're looking for your- I'll be, yeah, it'll be super interesting to see what happens there for your W fix from- Yeah September 4th to 13th, those games are all gonna be readily available.
You don't have to search very far to find them.
So, yeah, I mean, I personally can't wait to see what this grouping looks like.
Obviously a lot of them were on the Olympic team in 2024, but there's just enough new blood that it's, it's gonna be very fun to watch.
Like, this is an All-Star team with people trying, right?
So that's, that's all you ever wanna watch.
No doubt, no doubt.
I, I think there's, I think too, and not to go down the rabbit hole, but, like, seeing all these players together and working towards a common goal when so many people sort of put them in different roles and to- Mm-hmm have, have their agendas and have the, the, the, the, I guess the, the, the thought there's a clash of some kind between them.
But if they're all on the same floor, all on the same team playing together, that might be a nice little refresher, a nice little breath mint for the league basically.
A nice little breath mint for the league.
I like that.
I like that.
But yeah, we've, you know, written about the roster on the site.
Annie Costabile, you know, was talking to Sue Bird about their decision-making.
I wrote a column about, you know, USA turning the page.
So that's all available on The Athletic if you wanna get more into that.
And we'll talk definitely more about the World Cup as it approaches, less than a month from now.
So that's crazy.
But while we're talking about this roster, I do think A few names that stood out to me that we have not yet mentioned who are not a part of the team, kinda took it to some American players yesterday, and that would be Sonia Citron, Kiki Irafen, and Shakira Austin, who, have been a part of the USA pool, probably had their cases to be on this national team, and are playing just about the best basketball of anybody in the WNBA, Minnesota Lynx excluded.
Yeah.
I know we don't love to talk about games that just happened because you will be listening to the show tomorrow, but it's kinda hard to ignore what the Washington Mystics have been doing, especially again against the Dallas Wings.
Did you have a chance to catch any of that game, Brian?
Yeah, I mean, bad loss for the Wings.
Not to make it all about them right from the start.
I mean- Mm-hmm but yeah, I mean, you're d- you're this young team a- and you're at home, and I get it.
Like, I don't think I could look at a 15-point lead for any team at halftime- 20 20 in the third quarter.
Yeah, yeah.
But, like, 15 at halftime and just say, "Oh yeah, it's over."
like you'd- Right you would never say that in this league.
I don't care how good or bad the teams really are.
But the fact that they, it, it, it was just, just this rolling train of stops and turnovers and made shots and clutch shots, and it's And I look at the, look at the Mystics, and I'm like, "They're really this good already?"
Like, all these teams that are treading water below- Mm-hmm in the standings and undec- you know, indecisive about where they wanna go with things.
"We're gonna try to win, but only kinda try to win.
We're not gonna tank."
Mm-hmm.
Like, how do you expect to make up ground?
Like, when, when the m- when the Mystics are currently, like- Yeah the eighth seed.
Mm-hmm.
Where, where, which team of these eight is going to slip?
Which team of these eight is on the precipice of, like, giving up their spot because, you know, they're on their last ride?
They don't have a lot going for them.
Mm-hmm.
So that to me is like the, the Mystics are the shot across the bow of every team in the league who hasn't decided really what they wanna do.
Yeah.
And if you're, and if you're just gonna, if you're, if you're wanting to be in the middle, you may not even be able to get in the middle because of how good the Mystics are already.
Yeah, I mean, I was looking at the Mystics offseason thinking, like, "Do they know what they wanna do?"
Because they obviously have this huge core of young talent.
Sonia Citron and Kiki Irafen earning All-Star nods as rookies.
You know, they were again back in Chicago- Mm-hmm for All-Star this year as sophomores.
But they basically sat out the offseason, right?
Like, the only move they made was signing Shakira Austin, and that was after Toronto had already, like, tendered her an offer sheet.
So it was just a move they were kind of, like, forced into doing, that they had to give her this contract in order to keep her.
But they signed one veteran free agent, Mikaylah O'Neal.
They have, you know, her and Shakira are the only players on the team with more than one year of WMA experience.
It kinda seemed like they were setting up for, you know, year two of the rebuild, right?
You bring in Lauren Betts.
Yeah.
You have Georgia Amoa ready to go.
Cody McMann.
All of this young talent to sort of incubate together, and I mean, just day after day I am consistently more and more impressed with how ready they are for these moments.
Like, I was texting a friend of mine who's a big Mystics fan at the end of the third quarter, and I was like, "Oh, the Mystics have the Wings right where they want 'em."
Like- Yeah this is exactly how every game has gone, you know?
It was just not even a surprise to me at this point that, well, this time it was Cody McMann, but, that they look so poised in these fourth quarter situations, that they just have absolutely no fear.
Like, I think they even fell back down by, like, 10 or 12 again in the fourth quarter, and just methodically chipping away, chipping away.
The, the lineup that they run with, Citron at point guard and McMann, you know, as the wing alongside Odunwe has been so good.
I know Cody, posted this thing on Instagram where someone had sent her a picture of the Wings scouting report in the opposing locker room, and there's, you know, the, the details on all the players, but 12 players are listed and Cody McMann is not one of them.
Like, for some reason, Dariana Littlepage-Buggs, one of their DPs is listed, but Cody's, like, not one of the 12, and it's like, "Oh, I mean, maybe you should've thought about, a method of stopping Cody McMann before this game."
Was there not another page maybe that just got omitted?
Maybe another page.
I'm like, how is she not on the first page?
Like She's just on the back.
On the back.
It's, like, a double-sided printed scouting report.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just a not, not a great look, you know, for the Dallas Wings to blow that big lead and, like, a, they've had a couple of these games of late where, you know, they blow a big lead to the Liberty.
Admittedly, that was without Paige Bueckers in the lineup.
They blow that big lead to, to Atlanta, and have that foul situation at the end of the game.
But, yeah, I think this is a lot about the Mystics, a lot about, you know- Mm-hmm the players who will be coming in 2028 for more of these Olympic spots.
But we probably should also talk a little bit about the Wings and just what situation they find themselves in because, I think we have, a lot of people had very high expectations for Dallas, and they have shown the ability to meet those expectations at times this season, and then they've also shown, like, oh, hey, this is a team that's never had a playoff run together.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, the, they have a lot going for them in terms of how they play, you know, low turnovers.
Mm-hmm.
The most careful with the ball in the league.
They're good enough defensively.
They're good enough offensively when you look at the metrics.
Like, they're still top half of the league that way, top third of the league that way.
They have stars, but yeah, there's just, you, you feel like it all, it just all hasn't quite come together, and maybe it's, like, 85% there.
Mm-hmm.
But there are the, the, there are these slippages like last night.
I mean, if I'm not mistaken, here come the Washington Mystics, and Paige Bueckers hasn't taken a shot through the first six minutes of the fourth q- fourth quarter.
Now, I get it.
I- if I'm right about that, I get it.
There were, there were turnovers, so if you have a turnover, no one's getting a shot.
Mm-hmm.
And maybe, who knows?
But that's weird to me.
That's weird to me in a game where I, I guess, you know, great, Elena Smith, get her going like she hasn't been, and you wanna ride her and build her confidence given all the injuries and in and out she's had all year.
But any game where she has more shots than Paige Bueckers and you lose, like, I just don't think that's a great Combination.
And then it c- then it just snowballs for them down the stretch where basically everybody was missing shots.
But yeah, I, I, I think they're still a team that, you know, m- ceiling semifinals, I think.
Mm-hmm.
You know, given the right matchup.
I don't know that they get past the elite of this league in a, in a longer series, but you know, you- they're almost there.
They're almost there.
Yeah I mean, they've got multiple all-stars.
They're, they're alm- they're right there, it's just these, yeah, these sort of confounding moments that pop up late and maybe it's just, you know, they, look Shep's new, Smith is new.
Azzi Fudd's played with Paige Bueckers, but she's still new to everybody else.
Mm-hmm.
So may- and Jose Fernandez, their coach, new.
Like maybe it's still just a process of locking all that down.
Yeah, I mean you compare them to the Mystics who again, cannot highlight their youth enough, but like- Yeah Citron, Iria, Fenn, Austin all played together last year.
They all played with Sydney Johnson last year.
So even they have like a measure of more continuity than the Wings do, and without all of the burden of expectation, I think, that Dallas has been under this entire season.
I keep looking back at that Dallas front court situation.
You know, they had Allana Smith start the season.
She goes through some injuries, the concussion.
Then they put Awat Kuir in there.
They've tried Madi Segars out.
Madi's like basically a DNP these days.
They've tried Li Ruwu in certain situations.
Now they're back to Lan, which I think they kinda have to do just because their interior defense has been so bad without her.
Like if it's not gonna be her, it's not gonna be anybody else.
So, I, I understand like trying to get her going, like you said, but a game where she has more shots than Paige Bueckers is probably not the formula that anyone was looking for in Dallas.
Yeah.
All due respect to Allana Smith, you know, the reigning co-defensive player of the year.
But yeah, that's just Yeah, I, I'm almost like fascinated by their defensive metrics because they look so much better than the eye test would suggest on the court, right?
Yeah.
Like you watch them and it just seems like a, like a runway into the paint for opposing teams, like Cody McMann was getting there really easily.
Shakira Austin had another fabulous game against them.
So yeah, just like a series of questions.
I think it's probably fair to give them some time because of the lack of continuity.
You know, like their starting lineup, only Paige and Arike were on the team last year, and that was a team that had- Yes the worst record in the WNBA, right?
So, I guess it's just, it's hard sometimes because you look at how the Mystics have come together so quickly and like how the Lynx have come together so quickly with a very different roster than last year.
And yeah, that's Charalambous Reeve.
Shouldn't be holding Jose Fernandez to that standard, but like windows are so short in the W. Like you never know when things are gonna change and I just think as long as you have Paige playing this well, like top five level in the WNBA, you just can't waste those opportunities even with like, "We'll get 'em next year."
I just, you just never know about next year.
No, I, and I think they're well aware of that.
Like they get it down there.
This is not like, "Oh, you know, yeah, th- we have Paige, and oh, now we've got all these other players.
Let's just see how it works."
Like- Mm-hmm there's a, there's a definitive purpose of, "Man, we have Paige Bueckers," and as you said, like there are windows, and those windows can close very quickly for any number of reasons.
So yeah, I mean there's 10 wins last year, and you kinda give them credit for the improvement already, but there's an urgency.
Yeah.
There's absolutely an urgency down there.
Like we gotta get this right soon because we have this talent leading the way, moving into a much bigger building for the next couple years, got your practice facility coming.
Like this is, this is the time to be good to capitalize on all the momentum that you have as a franchise, and if you waste it, it may never come back around again.
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the building.
We talked about that, you know, on the podcast earlier in the week.
Like, College Park Center to American Airlines, that's like, what, three X in terms of the fans that you can bring in?
Like that's- Wow.
More maybe that's not nothing.
Yeah.
A real life practice facility that's gonna attract even more free agents after they did pretty well this off-season, you know, bringing in Shep, bringing in Lan, bringing in even like a veteran like Alicia Clark who probably had her pick of the litter of where she wanted to go, to spend these remaining years of her WNBA career.
Like, they have been like in go mode business wise since they got the number one pick- Yes that led to Paige Bueckers, and now you're seeing them, you know, sort of hit the pedal in terms of the basketball operations.
But I, I just keep thinking about this like new CBA and Paige's contract has one more year that it's cheap before like things really start to hit the fan.
And yeah, I mean, the, the windows are just, just tinier and tinier and when you have all these other teams like Vegas, like Minnesota, Ni- like New York, Atlanta, Indiana, who are all competing for the exact same goal.
Like I mean, I could look at the standings and say like eight teams could make the semifinals, could even like- Yeah make the finals, and I wouldn't be shocked.
Like maybe I'm going too far with Washington, but like the other seven, like they all came into this season with the expectation of doing that, right?
Um- I mean, if, if you said to me, like I was thinking before again, what is Dallas' ceiling?
Mm-hmm.
I started like, could they be in the finals?
Is that a weird- You hit the right path, you know?
Is that a weird thing to think?
Like, but I was like they have some of the best, you know, they have a, like they have one of the best players on the planet, and another- Mm-hmm player who's playing like an MVP in, in Jess Shepard.
Mm-hmm.
And they have good pieces all around that.
So not, yeah, it's not crazy to think that, like you said, we're, we're, we're knocking Dallas left and right, and yet in the same breath we can legitimately say, "Yeah, but they could possibly be in the finals.
We could see that happening."
Yeah.
I mean, they've- It's nuts played well against Indiana this year.
They have played well against, New York this year, right?
Like you get those two opponents on your path to the finals- Yeah and lo and behold, there you are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like a path in the NCAA tournament.
It all depends on match-ups and who you're playing.
Just gotta play the team in front of you.
Right.
That's right.
All right.
Well, one team that we have not talked about in this conversation about, potential finals opponents is the Golden State Valkyries, and stick around because we have a lot more to say about what Brian learned in Golden State.
All right.
Brian, you wrote a fascinating piece on how the Golden State Valkyries have become the WNBA's first billion-dollar franchise, and one thing that stood out, I think, was how the Valkyries have gotten so many personal things right in the, you know, from their expansion into number two seed, I think, in the WNBA at the time that we're recording this.
So for the listeners who may not have followed that story as closely, can you walk us through just, like, what the guiding principle in Golden State's blueprint was?
I think it was doing everything right from the start a- and, and going above and beyond in every aspect, and especially drilling down into, like, the player experience.
There are some advantages when the owners of the Golden State Warriors are also the owners of the Golden State Valkyries.
There's a track record of success and a blueprint that works over there, and I don't really think that they veered away from the, the Warriors', the, the generalities of the Warriors' blueprint in terms of hiring, the kind of people they hire in the front office, the kind of aggressiveness they take in marketing, the aggressiveness they have in expectations to win right away.
And there are obvious advantages.
You know, the, the Valkyries started with a practice facility that used to belong to the Golden State Warriors.
It was just repurposed instantly into their building in Oakland.
They play at one of the best arenas for basketball in the country.
These are advantages that not every expansion team, perhaps no expansion team Yeah is going to enjoy coming into the league.
But the, the I s- I think sort of the ethos of we're n- we're gonna do everything A+ from the start.
But whether we eve- whether we achieve it at an A+ level, our goal is to do everything A+ from the start.
I don't think you have that in every single franchise that's entered the WNBA.
I don't know that that exists in franchise that in WNBA that have been around for a while.
Mm-hmm.
It's just it, it They've really They came, they were birthed into existence as, like, resetting the bar for what an NBA franchise should be.
And the reason it's only taken a couple years to be one of the best teams in the league is because players talk.
Yeah.
You know?
Proof was in the pudding, the proof was in the pudding last year, and it's, once, once you had the, you know, the proof of concept, everybody can see it and everybody knows.
Yeah, I think, you know, their success sort of came out of nowhere for a lot of people last year because the history of expansion is not that glowing, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like, you look at all of the expansion teams in WNBA history and, like, they've been through a lot of weird bouts of expansion before this one.
I think this one's obviously gonna stick a lot better than the previous ones did.
But teams take a while to find their footing, right?
Like, not everyone inherits a practice facility or one of the newest arenas in the WNBA.
You know, like Portland, Toronto still don't have their practice facilities.
They still aren't I mean, the Moda Center, like, listen to some NBA podcasts to figure out what's going on there, but, like, they are not enjoying the same arena advantages that, Ballhalla is, right?
And for them to win at this level, I mean, no one was expecting that.
So I, I imagine that has done obviously a lot to lure in the free agents just knowing that you're gonna come into a situation where, like, you don't have to wait five years to figure out what success is gonna look like for this franchise.
But, if you haven't read the story yet, the lead, I think it perfectly encapsulates, like, what type of player experience Golden State's going for because they just think about everything, right?
So without risk of, like, ruining it for people who haven't read about Gabby Williams's, particular considerations - how else did Golden State lean into player experience to really make sure that people wanted to come play for them?
You, people do need to read about Gabby Williams and Halle Berry.
I'm wi- Yeah I'm willing, I'm willing to put that out there as the teaser- Okay.
That we ha- You really should lean into that and see how Gabby Williams took care of Halle Berry one day- Yep in the Bay.
But no, I mean, it, it's, it's stuff like, you know, Kia Stokes arrived and had never been a great sleeper, and I don't know how well that was taken care of in other places.
She didn't really get into that.
But it, it was immediately, "Do you wanna try this comforter?
Do you wanna try this new ma- mattress?
What about magnesium packets?
Do you want us to schedule s- you for a full sleep study?"
And she was essentially overwhelmed by the very proactive and sensible approach to trying to solve- a key player's issue with being very sleepy.
A- and all the way down to something like she doesn't like, she's not a big breakfast person, and so they'd have the, the smoothies out that are made for players after practice or in the morning or whenever they come in to, to get a workout in, and she's like, "I don't really want one."
And they'd be like, "Oh, do you want us to get you coffee?
What can we do?
What can we do for you?"
And it's, it's these, this small level of what can, the what can we do for you and the, the ability to do that, the ability to execute that sort of stuff.
I mean, Jess Smith, the team president, told me that when I was out there, she was in the process of just checking in with every single player.
"Is everything okay?
Is there anything else you need?
What else can we do?
What else can we do better?"
That's the team president.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, that's essentially one st- right, one step down from Joe Lacob.
I, I, there, there's a le- there's an in- level of intentional care in w- in how the, in what they give the players and how sort of aggressively proactive they are in giving it to them that differentiates them.
I mean, it's, a lot of this stuff has been codified in the new CBA, so- It's gonna be, they've gotta be, you know, a lot of their advantage has been sort of collectively bargained into neutrality in a way.
But they do it so well now that it is just a separator.
Yeah.
It's pretty crazy that even in 2025 things like someone going on a coffee run for you or like- Yeah not the touches that you would expect from every WNBA team, but, that just wasn't the case, right?
Like, they weren't in facilities where you could like store your stuff and like come back and it would still be there the next day And, you know, have someone taking all this care with the sleep studies.
I, I like the anecdote that you mentioned about Gabby Williams, like when she got to Chicago and just like didn't know what to do with her insurance and like her checkup and was just overwhelmed by like m- the medical care- Yeah of it all, and like Golden State just takes care of all of that.
Yeah, those are things that like, yeah, as you mentioned, the CBA is trying to mandate that every team gets to those standards, but like they haven't yet.
And Golden State even having a year of a leg up like makes a difference.
The league is getting bigger for sure, but like it's small enough that everyone talks.
Everyone knows like where the best, everything is, and the answer to that question s- for so many items, like on a player's preferred list, happens to be the Valkyries right now.
Yeah.
I mean, Kia Stokes vividly remembered their ga- the game with the Aces.
Like it's stuck in her memory playing- Mm-hmm in the Chase Center, and the crowd for an expansion team and the energy and just the surroundings.
I mean, you can walk around a building and you can tell it's like super, super nice and super- Mm-hmm super modern.
And she didn't in, in her free agency, it's not like she went there and toured the practice facility.
She c- she literally said, she's like, "I pretty much figured if it's good enough for the Golden State Warriors, it's gonna be good enough for us."
So th- these are assumptions you can't make everywhere, but players- Mm-hmm who have sight unseen have made these assumptions about Golden State, and it's made a difference.
Yeah, and they kind of had to make those assumptions sight unseen because of, you know, the two-week offseason- The timing, yeah that the WNBA engaged in- Yeah.
There's that in 2026.
So pretty great that Golden State already had developed such a reputation that they were, they could cash in on that reputation of one year of being in the WNB- Yeah and be like, "Yeah, Kia Stokes wanna come through?
Like now we have the maybe second best defensive center in the WNBA behind A'ja Wilson on our team, and like Gabby Williams wanna come through?
Now we have our all-star wing that we've been, you know, hoping and praying to find, and like maybe another one will be on the way in 2027."
We've talked a lot about what those potential options are, but we'll get into that later.
But yeah, I think- to already just Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to me that like these other franchise have been trying and trying for years to convert themselves into places like destinations that players will wanna come to, and maybe it is just easier when you're an expansion team and you can start from scratch and like do everything right from the beginning and not have any baggage that's weighing you down.
But, it definitely like seems like they have done everything the way it is supposed to be done and like setting the template for what Toronto should look like, what Portland, Cleveland- Mm-hmm you know, all of that.
Like I think about, I hate to bring up the Sirens again 'cause I know I've done this a lot this week, but like- their rollout is just, it reminds me so much of what Golden State did with the Valkyries, right?
Like the attention to all the details and like even the mythology of it all.
Like it's, it's very cool like to see the, already the replicas of some things that Golden State is doing around the rest of the league.
It's a, it's, it's, and it's what's so interesting about what they're doing too, Golden State is sharing their so-called secrets or their blueprints around the league.
Like they- Mm-hmm.
I, I asked them.
I was like, "Is this some sort of stuff you like, do you wanna keep the secret sauce recipe to yourself?"
And Jess Smith is like, "No.
When we get on calls with other teams and our teams get on calls with their teams in the front office around the league and they ask us how we're doing something, we're wide open about it because we wanna see the league grow.
We wanna see other teams do better."
Teams say, "Oh, you have a bar network of 35 bars that are Golden State Valkyrie specific sports bars on game nights?
Like h- really?
How did you do that?"
Yeah.
They're w- they are willing to explain that.
In the same breath they'll talk about they're not sure that every team can do what they do.
You know, I, I say it in the story, like not every team gets dropped into the perfect market for a WNBA team, both in terms- Mm-hmm of demographics and desire for a team.
That's not gonna happen everywhere else.
So they, they're willing to share, yeah, this is how you put together a bar network.
This is how you do A, B, and C in non-basketball specific ways to market your team.
You know, we, we, we are happy to be an example for you to copy.
But they'll also say, "Yeah, like we're kinda fortunate.
Like we have a- Yeah blueprint that may not be replicable in a lot of ways because not everybody has an 18,000-seater arena."
Right.
And so.
Yeah.
I mean, it's one thing to say that they've been like, you know, helpful with their practices, but having talked to other team presidents around the league, like I can assure you that is a thing that is happening.
When- you know, I talked to Alison Howard this week about the Cleveland launch, she's like, "Yeah, you know, Jess Smith and I have known each other for years."
They obviously go back to NWSL days when they were at Angel City and Kansas City respectively, hoping to recreate some of that Warriors- Yeah Cavaliers rivalry and the Valkyries and the Sirens.
But yeah, they readily acknowledge that everyone around the league, including Golden State, has been so helpful throughout going this process.
But I think so much of what Golden State is doing, like the player experience is great.
The fact that like they get you your smoothies and your sleep and, you know, have this facility is all wonderful, but it works because they're winning basketball games.
I think that is- Yes a huge part of it.
Like that is why they are even the national draw that they've become.
And, you know, when they got the team and Joe Lacob said, "We wanna win a title in five years," same thing he said when he bought the Golden State Warriors, and that- Yeah came to fruition, and I would be hard-pressed to bet against him happening in the WNBA.
However many reservations I had when he initially said that, uh- How much of like a, a motivating factor did you get, like a sense of like is that something they think about, like the five-year plan, or is that just a Joe Lacob thing, or is everyone on the Valkyries operating under that timeline?
Oh, I think everyone is.
I think I, I, you know, Natalie Nakase on down through the players, I think there is a underdog urgency, if that's sort of a thing.
Like, I kind of, you know, I wondered aloud when I was talking to Joe Lacob like- Mm-hmm can you be Rocky training, have the Rocky in tr- Siberia training mentality, but have all the nice stuff that Ivan Drago had like to like- In his Sephora training facility, right?
Yeah, this like mega techno f- facility like he's So I think there's a mental- I think what's helped them is they obviously made some great choices in the expansion draft, and Natalie has been an absolute home run as a coach.
Mm-hmm.
And she can feed into the idea that we're all sixth women and seventh women when this team first started.
We're the castoffs, right?
Mm-hmm.
We're the people that other teams didn't necessarily want.
They're lucky that some of those players, like Veronica Burton, turned out to be like all-star level talents that were just hidden because of like- Yeah when we talked before how hard it is to break into this league.
There, I think that ethos is still there for them.
I think that idea of they're winning, but like they don't act like it.
They don't act like it's, the bottom's not gonna fall out at some point.
Wow.
Because the spine of the team is still players who are probably scarred in some ways for how, from how hard it has been- Yeah to make a roster, to get on the floor in this league.
They have a lot of stuff that you can take for granted.
They don't have a lot of players who take stuff for granted.
They certainly don't have a coach who does.
I mean, a 5'2" former walk-on who tore her ACL as a freshman, who winds up as like an all-conference play starter, you know, at UCLA.
I mean- that is about the perfect person at the top to be like "Hey, don't come in here with any entitlement."
And then, you know, if you have that mindset, then you become the best defensive team in the league.
Then you're- Mm-hmm willing to do the little things, do the dirty work that can really grind other teams down, that's gonna cause problems for other teams.
And yeah, it helps when you can add Gabby Williams, an all-star caliber player because she's looking for opportunity.
She doesn't wanna take a step down in that player experience from Seattle.
But I really do think that above talent, it has been they pl- the players came in having had a hard time to try to make or their go of it in the WNBA, and they've leaned into that.
Yeah.
And now that they see it works, I don't think anybody is looking at that five-year plan and being like, "Yeah, no, we still got a ways to go."
I think they, they're all in.
They're all in on that.
Yeah.
Brick to the gas pedal.
Yeah, I mean, you think about it, like Burton's been cut, Caitlin Chen's been cut, Kayla Thornton's been cut.
Mm-hmm.
Like all these players have been through situations where there just wasn't a space in the WNBA for them, and now not only have they found a space, they found like the perfect space with everything they could have possibly wanted at all those other spots that probably weren't serving them as well as Golden State is now.
I don't think you can overstate the hiring of like Ohema and Natalie Nakase in this process.
Mm-hmm.
Like obviously just rising stars in their respective fields.
Both of them coming with like a certain degree of WNBA experience too.
Like I think it's very cool that the Golden State became an expansion team at a time when like there were a number of assistant coaches you could pluck from, you know, who had a certain level of W and NBA experience in Natalie's case.
Where there were assistant GMs who you could pluck from who had just won a title in New York, and now you come to Golden State and build up your own program from there.
So I think like they were better served, I guess, than other expansion teams where like just the personnel pool in the WNBA was so limited.
Right.
It's like- Right who can you actually bring in to do this stuff properly?
And now there's just more options for that.
But like they definitely picked the right people.
Like, you know, Marcus Thompson wrote a great story about Natalie Nakase last year, and you alluded to some of that in your piece, on the site this week.
But just like the, the drive behind Natalie Nakase is like unlike almost anyone I've ever met in my entire life.
Yeah, I mean, and you talk about like the player experience, the care factor.
Like I joked with her that I thought it was really impressive when I was there, she talked about wanting to There, there was some sort of letdown, I forget against who defensively.
Like it just wasn't up to the par.
It wasn't up to their level in a game.
And she came in after the game or the next day and said, and said, "I, I said to the players, 'What do I need to do?
What, for you to get us to the level we need to be at?'"
Mm-hmm.
And so they list the stuff like this is how you can do it, and then she just does it.
And I joked with her, I was like, "That's an amazing Jedi mind trick."
Just like tell me, tell me how to coach you to get the exact result I want.
Okay, do the A, B, and C. All right, I'm just gonna do A, B, and C, and then we get the result.
And she's just- Mm-hmm and you know, she said it in the story like, "Why am I beating around the bush?
Why am I trying to guess?
Just tell me what you want."
And it is really different.
Like the way Veronica Burton wants to be coached is way different than a lot of other players wanna be coached.
She doesn't want to be, you know, gri- grinded on.
She wants, she, because of all she's been through, because of all the doubts that she's had about herself as a pro in the past, she needs somebody to have unwavering belief.
To like just, just give her that support all the time.
Not the yeller and the screamer, you know?
That, that's not for her.
Not that she doesn't wanna be pushed, but like at a base level she needs to know that, she needed to know her head coach had her back no matter what.
And Natalie does that with everybody it seems like.
Just she goes to them and says, "What, what can I do to get the best out of you?"
And it makes her job pretty easy.
Yeah.
'Cause then you just do it.
You just do that.
It's like, I mean, not to go to a whole nother sport, but you know, Tom Izzo historically has just had players say, "What do you want?
Write down On a piece of paper, what are your goals for the season?
And he's like, "Then I'm gonna hold you to that."
Like, "This is what you said you want-" Mm-hmm " now I'm gonna hold you to it."
It's kind of a sim- it's, it's similar in Golden State.
Tell me how I, tell me how I can get the best out of you.
Give me your list.
I will follow the list.
It's, it's - she's she thinks it's go- I, I don't know.
I was like, I was, that's a pretty good Jedi mind trick.
I might have to try that with like, my kids.
Like, tell me how to get you to do this and I will just do those things.
I mean, it almost seems like they, like Shein Ohama did that to Joe Lacob when they got there and were like, "Well, we're gonna take this job if these things happen," and everything that they needed- Yeah you know, to make their jobs possible has happened from the Golden State ownership group.
Yeah.
And one of those things that has happened, which I don't think anyone could have necessarily predicted, even though the Bay Area was like ripe for a women's basketball team, they obviously had the fan support, is what Ballhalla has become.
Like- Yes the name first of all, iconic.
Can't get over it.
But like they have the best home court advantage I think in the WNBA one and a half seasons into their existence, which is insane.
And I'm wondering what you learned about how they, I don't know, tapped into the fan culture there or tried to, emphasize the home court.
Like, h- how did that come to be?
I almost think the fan culture tapped into them.
Because I don't think they expected this.
I, I think, like any, like any of us who would conceive of a WNBA franchise in the Bay Area, you could make some pretty strong assumptions about the support you would get based on who lives in the Bay Area.
Right.
And based on the, the sports culture of the Bay Area, very passionate about all their teams.
They were surprised about how intense it was.
You know, the fact that they'd, they opened the arena for people to come in and look at potential seats for season tickets, and by the end of it, people were exchanging phone numbers saying, "I wanna sit next to you.
Let's buy season tickets next to each other."
the fact that you could, and, and there, the, you know, you could use your Chase card to buy your season tickets and then that would get you a like letterman jacket as a founding, you know, founding guard member they called it.
And they expected about half as much interest if, if maybe like 40% as much interest they got.
So much so they had to order more jackets.
Like they had no, they had no idea this many people would respond as strongly as they have.
Jess Smith said all she heard was, "Please make it cool.
Please make it a cool experience."
So I think there was a want that was served by them.
They just didn't know how much want there actually would be.
And now, yeah, I mean, you go to a game there and it's a party, right?
Like there are people-- It is, as an outsider, as someone who parachutes in, as, as someone who's very cynical about a great many things, like you can look at it and be like this is kinda corny, you know?
Like so Caitlin Shen gets a layup with three seconds left in a win and the game's been over for like the last five minutes, but the crowd goes nuts, right?
Like you, you- They love Caitlin Shen.
Yeah.
People dan- people dancing with the dance team members.
I mean, it's, there's a lotta stuff that you can look at and be like this seems a little bit much, you know?
I think I said in the story a little try hard in some ways, but, but it works.
You know, it works for them.
The, the, the energy is real.
The juice in that building is real.
And I think as much as they would've liked it to be like that, I don't think the Golden State front office expected it to be this strong in all facets this quickly.
Yeah, I think the purple party is a big part of it too.
Just like how uniform everyone is in wearing the color of the Valkyries, which- Yep just a phenomenal choice.
I, I can't get over like the fact that no one had tapped into that for thousands and thousands of professional sports teams that this was just like an untapped market here.
I was just, I, I- I mean, how many colors are there?
Yeah, just watching them at the end of practice, like seeing like the, you know, the dry fit violet long sleeve shirts.
Mm-hmm.
I was like literally saying like, "Okay guys, where can I buy this for my family?"
Yeah.
Like just, it's just cool.
It just looks cool.
Yeah.
And it's not something that just ha- I think you're right about the Bay like providing something that they didn't even know was coming because like I, you know, bought season tickets at Angel City when Jess Smith was the president there and they had the, you know, you walk in and you check out where your seats are and you like meet the people who are like potentially buying seats around you and like, it has not remained as cool as Ballhalla is.
Probably because they don't win as many games, but, it's, it's not something you can just like manufacture.
I think the Bay deserves so much credit, like you said, for what the Golden State Valkyries have become because you can take all the practices that they have in Cleveland and Philadelphia and Detroit, and I'm not sure it's gonna generate like what has been so special and unique about the Valkyries.
I mean, I, I hope-- Hey, look, I hope some of these, these teams are rousing successes, but I just don't know that in Cleveland you're gonna have thousands of people coming in to check out an arena and buy season tickets and like have that organic connection happen right away before there's even like really an official floor in for the team.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it, it's definitely been-- It was eye-openingly different about how those fans are treating the franchise.
Yeah, and I think, you know, we can talk about all of the, the blueprint that Golden State has laid out in terms of how they treat their players, in terms of the people that they hired, and the way they've gone about their business, and so much of it is kinda just magic, right?
Like it just- Yeah happened to work out in this place.
Although I'm sure a lot of the people there would, you know, I don't know if that they would like disagree with that.
Like do they agree that a part of it is magic or do they take a lot of pride in what they accomplished?
I think they take a lot of pride in the hard work- Yeah in the hard work of it.
Um- Yeah the being the, the being the, being good people of it, the working hard together as a team, you know- They didn't-- They've had a full and robust staff from the start, which kinda goes back to, like, how much you can do for everybody else in the organization.
Uh-huh.
Players, coaches, you know, front office people around you.
Yeah, but I think again, the urgency there, like there's an expectation that you're doing your job at an A+ level, whether you're a player or a coach or someone in the communications department, someone in the marketing department.
Like it's, it's weird in that everyone's really like happy and driven and smart.
But there's also this tension of like, "I can't fall below this bar."
And I- Yeah I think it's sort of this weird- weirdly healthy tension underneath it.
Like you, you can't-- like you can't stop.
You can't just be satisfied.
You have to keep pushing.
Yeah.
Well, I think that's, that's the blueprint then, right?
The hard work, the no A-holes that Natalie Nakase talked about.
Yeah.
Right?
Everyone just has to do their job and do it really well, and even if there is no five-year plan hovering above you from ownership like there has to be that underdog mentality that I think a lot of the expansion teams are gonna try to capture.
And it'll be interesting to see, you know?
Like obviously this year's expansion teams have not had the basketball level of success that Golden State did.
I don't think either of them are gonna make the playoffs, but you hear very complimentary things about the experience that they're having in Toronto and Portland.
So at least that has translated, you know.
The last thing the WNBA wants to do is create more markets where people don't wanna play, and that is definitely not the case right now with the tempo and the fire.
But I still think Golden State sort of stands alone in terms of just the totality of everything they were able to accomplish.
Yeah.
Well, if you haven't read the story yet online or have been like following along as we've been talking about it here, uh- Gabby Williams, Halle Berry, Golden State Valkyries.
Make sure you check it out on the site.
Brian, thank you so much for helping us to better understand the Golden State Valkyries, and stick around.
After the break, we're gonna talk about what games to watch over the weekend.
All right, Brian, it's time to set our screens.
Technically, technically this is the WNBA's rivalry week kicking into action right now.
I don't under-- I don't know that I necessarily buy that all of these games are rivalries, but I'm gonna put the branding out there just in case.
Any games that you're particularly interested in watching over the weekend?
Yeah, I mean, think Golden State/Dallas jumps out at me right from the start.
I mean, we've talked a lot about the Valkyries, we've talked a lot about the Wings, and we-- I think if you think about a team that can stand in front of the Wings' path and just dismantle them in the playoffs, it would be a team like Golden State who can control the tempo, who also doesn't turn the ball over, who plays the best defense in the league.
I, I'm in-- I'm interested to see how that matchup plays out because it is such a tough, directly tough matchup for the Wings being played in an arena that might have 13,000, 15,000, 18,000 people in it.
It's gonna be- Mm-hmm an American Airlines center.
That's sort of a playoff, like a curi-- It, it may not be the playoff matchup, but it is sort of a potential playoff matchup preview that I would be curious to see how it plays out.
And I definitely don't envy the back-to-back for the Aces.
Oh my God.
Green four nights.
This is a, this is a rough stretch for the club from Las Vegas.
The sneaky one for me, kinda going back to the Mystics, is Phoenix and Washington.
Yeah.
I don't know that every- it's gonna be the marquee for anybody, but the, the point of the Kelsey Plum trade is to try to make the playoffs, and if you're gonna do that, I'm really not sure you can lose this game.
You cannot.
Phoenix.
You cannot, yeah.
lot riding on it.
Lot riding on it.
How about you?
Yeah, just, just to fill in that Aces back-to-back is against the Lynx and the Liberty, so not the easiest back-to-back in the world.
No.
If you're the Las Vegas Aces, I mean, I really have my eyes on Wings/Lynx.
I love the Olivia Miles- Yeah AZ Fudd, reckoning whenever we can make it happen.
And if you're the Wings and you're trying to prove that, like you belong in the same contender status, the Lynx are a team that you have not been able to prove that against this season.
So, interested to see what they have there, and it's only gotten harder now that Napheesa Collier's back.
But, you know, after the week that the Wings have had, maybe it's the kind of like, you know, thing that gets them up and ready to play for, the best team in the WNBA.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, and I think, I think there's a pretty good player from Minnesota on the Wings too, so it kinda just- adds another level.
I don't know, something about that.
I think AZ Fudd's got some family in Minnesota too, so you know, just, uh- Oh, yeah.
Yeah, all of that.
All right.
That is all we have for today.
Thank you for tuning in, and we'll be back next Tuesday with more conversations from across the world of women's hoops.
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On behalf of The Athletic and Brian Hamilton, I'm Sabrina Merchant.
Thank you for listening, and we will see you next time.
No Off-Season is hosted by Tsina Kada with Chantel Jennings, Sabrina Merchant, and Annie Costabile.
It's produced by Tanika Burrell.
Our executive producer is Andrea B. Scott.
Monica Compton is our video editor.
Our theme music is by Marcus Fogala.
Shannon Ryan is managing editor of women's basketball at The Athletic.
