Has Big $$$ Made The Hobby TOO Expensive?
The corporatization of the hobby has its positives, for sure: better products, higher values, etc. However, if big names and bigger money keep coming into the hobby, people will be forced out. Mike and Jesse dive into the latest round of big names with deep pockets entering the space.
Video Transcript
I'm not a crazy financially literate person.
I've done a lot of research, and I have a lot of meetings with people to help me do this stuff.
But if you just all of a sudden have a net worth or have a value because your cards have gone up, it doesn't all of a sudden mean you're smart.
The show has started.
I don't even need Oh, we're live.
Yeah.
I was just saying, I literally don't even need my laptop.
Talk about your classic mail it in day.
The s- That's not true.
And that's not true.
It's a mailbag day.
It could be a What are- We have a couple things We call it a goulash casserole?
Okay.
So I wanna get your take on this.
Please.
I didn't speak to you the whole last podcast.
I just looked at Shep, and I was uncomfortable.
Although I don't really love talking to you anyways, so.
It's not true.
Here's the problem.
Listen.
I'm so nervous about today- Oh 'cause your filter is gone.
And not that you ever really have much of a filter.
Oh.
But yeah, tell- Just trying to make sure that the right left mono fricking stereo works.
I'm gonna say this to whoever's listening.
If I get audio this week and my mic, mic is muted- Oof I am gonna pull names from a hat- and people will be given notice.
I don't care.
Just random names and- I don't care it may not be your name, but it will, will be someone, and it'll be on your conscience.
Mike just fired himself.
Fine.
Fine.
That's what happens.
Yeah, there's where the equity comes with me.
I wanna talk about this.
This is a, a overline, over story.
We have a thing with Brendan.
Who?
Constitutional That's not it.
What's the word?
I don't know.
Money.
Big money.
Corporation money.
Cor- corporate.
Corporate money coming into the space.
Oh, okay.
And we talk about it, and you sit over like an idiot like, "Oh, it's great 'cause your corporate buddies, the Jackson dudes are just awesome."
I said that?
This is your always That was my words.
It's always you.
Okay.
Yep.
Some of it can be good.
Yeah.
We talked this week about the whole Whatnot thing.
Oh, yeah.
I swear to God, Ray, if you touch the microphone again over here, by the way- I'm gonna stab you in your sleep.
And you live in Okay.
I can't hear myself at all, by the way.
Did you turn up the one where you can't hear?
There's two of them, and one of them- Test.
Test controls just you.
Now I'm hearing myself.
There you go.
Okay.
There you go.
So it's good in some instances, but, like this week, the two biggest headlines I think I saw everywhere, especially outside of the card world, I know we love to stick to our bubble, number one, what was the number one story this week involving money?
About the hobby, outside of the hobby, the people outside were speaking about, if you had to guess.
You spoke about it.
The, the Whatnot.
Yes.
The, the money- The fact that- the 20 billion valuation card guys, and I know it's way beyond that obviously- Yep raising a half a billion dollars.
Insane.
Yes.
Did you see the, any stories today about the hobby and massive things from outside coming in?
I saw about the- Some of the biggest names in the world.
Well, I saw Bob Iger buying- or selling out the, the Lakers.
Is that what- Okay.
No, I don't- No?
I'm glad you talked to Bob today.
I saw the, I- This is, this is what I'm talking about.
What did you wa- Okay.
I don't, I can't read minds.
Have, have you heard the story that Brady's group- Oh, yes now has investors, including Jay-Z- I did like, some of the biggest names on the planet.
Yeah.
And they're coming in, and they're investing, and this and that.
Jay-Z, Aaron Judge, Dana White, Connor McDavid, The Kraft Group, Red Sox owner John Henry, Celtics CEO Wyc, Wyc Grousbeck?
Yep.
And many more.
Grousbeck.
Yeah.
Some of the biggest money guys in the world, especially, I mean, in this country for sure.
Yep.
And it's like, "Hey, this is great headlines," and of course Let me tell you where the downside is.
Oh, yeah.
Will Stern, who worked for Darren No Vowels Collect.
Oh, yeah.
I've never spoken to Will.
Oh, I know.
He's great.
And I think I- Oh.
I don't know what he's ever said that's- I'm really curious where this is going.
No, I have nothing.
I, I've never, I've never- Oh, okay, okay read anything about him.
I've never interacted with him.
He might be the greatest guy on the earth.
You know, he works with Darren, so strike one, Will.
Um- He's, he's really nice.
He knows a lot.
I like Darren is a, is a perfect villain, by the way- which I love.
I would like to Me and Darren need a show just screaming at each other.
Here's what I would say, though.
Will made a great point.
I screenshotted his tweet on X- Ooh because it was an excellent point.
He's a writer.
He's gotta make good points.
All right.
Take it easy.
He's fine.
But he, they talked about the story obviously, and there was the, you know, you could see the big heading.
Oh, yeah.
Card Ladder- Yep or Card Vault rather, and these big names, right?
His comment, "The problem with the financialization..." Hey, Will, we know you went to college.
Which c- which camera's mine?
That one.
Just pump the brakes, bro.
I don't need 68 letters in a fricking word.
I don't even know if it's real.
The problem with big money, is what William meant to say- Okay of high-end sports card market is that the entire investment thesis, again, relax, relies upon collector passion to drive up value.
Mm-hmm.
Here's the point.
Pretty soon even the richest collectors will be totally priced out.
Ah, yes.
Oh, dude, this is a- So William u- Yeah William used some fancy words that he probably made up.
I- But Is he a liar?
I think- Yes.
I can't say definitively.
He's a liar.
I think his statement there- I think this- was not a liar though.
I, I do.
I think we get caught up in headlines all as crap, and that's fine.
And by the way, we're the biggest corporate losers in the world- at times in this fricking hobby.
But it does, at some point, if you start to go too far the other way- Yeah I got news for you.
It doesn't matter that if you pull this card, Cooper Flagg has you to his house for dinner every Sunday, you know, the first Sunday of the month.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter that you get to go hang out with Tom Brady and have a shoulder ride.
Yes.
And you get to go tackle Javon Kin None of that matters if everybody in the hobby is just like, "Hey, we can't afford it."
Dude, I have been thinking, and I, I talk about this sometimes, but I feel like we haven't really- What are you wearing?
I'm sorry.
Just Go ahead.
Dear God.
We'll get to that after.
Yeah, you can I figured.
I, I'm shocked it's taken you this long to say anything, but, no, it So I notice this, like, with Gary Vee.
So Gary, when he's putting out a product, there's a lot of times I And I like Gary very much.
I think he's doing a lot of good- I shill for him all the time.
Great guy for the non-sport area.
Sure.
But when it comes to, like, selling product, he will sign cards.
Like, and that's, like, a big hit- in the card.
But he signs so much of it that it becomes like, oh, almost everybody has a Gary Vee auto if they want it.
The point I'm making is it becomes, like, this really spec- It was a really special thing to get a Gary Vee.
He's this influencer.
He's a big time.
He's in TV, movies.
But then everybody's got it.
So where's the scarcity?
Where's the specialness?
And what happens is when more corporate things happen, you just get, oh, well- You have more celebrities entering the space, more athletes.
Let's get them to do this and that, and then everything's so expensive.
Okay.
There's a- All the prizes- So, so you agree with that part?
Oh, I'll, yes.
'Cause you're make- the scarcity thing is the second part of this, which I think you just hit on.
Well- You didn't know that.
I didn't share notes well, and the, the fact- But I agree that you are getting to a point where things are so expensive to even get into, and you're- Mm-hmm what you're buying is, oh, a hope that this guy that I saw at my local card shop or that was at this big promotional card show, or I see him on all the advertising and he follows me on Instagram.
It's like, yeah, but it, it's becoming where it's less special because- No, because it's watered down.
Yeah, it's- So, so yeah.
So just to be clear- It feels less special and more expensive at the same time yeah, so, so two separate things.
One, the scarcity.
If everything is the rarest thing ever, none of it's rare- Yeah to your point.
But my point is just simply, two, let's just say this continues to happen, everything's great and everything's so awesome.
A- and the counterpoint a little bit, just to play somewhat devil's advocate- Sure is, and I wanna talk about that shirt.
I don't even know.
I literally don't even know what I'm looking at 'cause there's a fold in your shirt right up, right below your nipples.
I'll help you.
What is it?
Is it Tasmanian Devil?
So, that is Pete of the, Goofy movie in Goof Troop.
That's Mickey Mouse as, um- You have a family.
Like, I- It, I think, I don't actually know which Mi- Mickey is Angel, and then- You're- Goofy is Cyclops don't ask me why- And Donald Duck is, uh- Wolverine is Wolverine.
You are somewhat a respected member- Do you- of this community.
Would you like to see the back of the shirt?
No.
You would be- I, I just- upset as well.
And so what happens though is you get everything is just becomes this price.
And the counterpoint, which I was gonna make before I got distracted by that s- smut on your shirt- Pete is Magneto.
Oh, oh.
Forgot about- Thank you Pete has four T's.
It's a Disney Marvel- Magneto from Kentucky m- Disney Marvel collab.
Yeah, you and the perverts.
Good.
Yes, I said that word again.
Oh my God.
Three people are gonna message Jesse.
He thinks I'm gonna stop saying it 'cause you idiots told me to.
Dear Lord.
One of them being BJ Kroger, Jesse's girlfriend.
He actually never said- Okay, counterpoint go to your counterpoint.
The counterpoint is, yeah, but everything is more valuable in your collection, i.e.
You, you of us, those of us who have been, whom, to whom it may, to who it may concern- who have been in this thing forever- Yep are like, "Oh, my net worth in cards went from..." Like a big thing I've tal- talked about for years was when my collection hit $10,000- Yeah years and years ago, I was like, "Hannah, this is amazing."
'Cause 10,000 for me and Hannah in the bank- Oh was also a huge deal.
Sure.
When we got that in savings, I was like, "This is unreal, honey."
When my collection hit that, I still remember.
Yeah.
It was like 2012, and I was like, "This is kinda nuts."
Mm-hmm.
And so, okay, let's just So fast-forward from 2012, '13 to now, that same collection is now worth And again, the collection's grown.
I should be, round numbers.
Yeah.
That 10,000 is literally now worth a million dollars, or $800,000 for a lot of guys.
But I don't wanna have to sell prized possessions to go chase some of this new stuff.
Sure.
Now, I'm not condemning breaking.
I'm not condemning if guys wanna go out and speculate on the next young quarterback or the next prospect or whatever.
But when the price of everything is g- starts to get so in And by the way, I'm not even just talking Fanatics.
Yep.
Fanatics is expensive.
Panini has been expensive the last few years.
Grading has gotting ex- gotten expensive.
The experience to travel to a card show and to set up, when the price, these things continue to go up, I'm not saying it's not a better product.
I think it is.
But at some point it's like, okay, for me to now fund buying a couple g- cards of this guy, ripping one of these boxes, traveling to the National Fanatics Fest, whatever it is, and grading a few cards, I now have to sell a Tom Brady card worth 6,500 bucks to fund that other stuff.
Yeah.
The scales are s- like- Well- it has not happened now, but I- I'll wrap up.
I'll probably get over it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, I'm not sitting here either like d- doom and gloom, like this ha- this is it because Jay-Z is in the hobby all of a sudden it's a thing.
What I am saying, though, is if it continues to happen- Yeah this is how institutional change happens, where you no longer have a cool hour thing.
Yes.
It becomes it's their thing.
It's corporatized.
Yeah.
And we're allowed to kinda nibble and participate.
Now granted, I'll just start charging unreal amounts- for sponsorships and always support it.
But it does, it kinda gets like- Yeah eh, we're guilty of it.
I know we've benefited greatly from it, but I also am like, "Man, what is on the horizon?"
So- Sorry the point that- Back to Pete when we talked about Bob Iger, selling the Lakers, so- He buy them or sell them?
So he, let me just make sure I'm getting the right names.
I believe Bob Iger was the one who sold.
He, and he's- I think a billionaire would go by Robert.
Oh, no, Bob Kraft.
Yeah?
Yeah, right?
So Lakers sold to Bob Iger- Iger.
Wait, so then who's the- Egar who's the guy who owned them before then?
Oh- The Buss family?
Alan, you know who this is.
Who, who was the guy who owned them?
Mark Wal- Mark Walters owned them before.
He also owns the Dodgers.
Thank you.
Okay.
Oh.
So it's Mark Walters.
Excuse me.
So Mark Walters is the guy who, he owned them, but he bought them last year.
Oh.
And he bought them for, like, $10 billion.
And just flipped them for 12.
He just made $2 billion in the course of two years.
Baller.
And that's record money.
Oh, yeah.
Like, that's insane money.
I think- The highest franchise sale ever.
I, I, and- At least of an American sport I believe it was, our old boss, Mr.- William?
Mr. William Billiam Si- Simmons, he was quoted as saying- Doesn't respond to text messages anymore, I'll tell you that right now.
He was quoted as saying, like, he didn't think that there would be a team sold for this kind of money in the 2020s, let alone, like, even the 2030s.
So- we are at times where inflation is out of control, and it's not just like, oh, we're talking about, like, inflation of, like, my eggs cost more.
Yes, that does cost more, but everything i- our mindsets in this country, maybe it's across the world, I don't know, are at the point where it's like, oh, well, you just are expected to pay more and/or you get more for whatever you had.
Yeah.
I fully believe, and I was gonna, I actually, this was one of the comments I wanted to talk about because, I'm so glad we, we are really on the same page.
Even though sometimes it feels like we're not.
We're cutting down to once a week, though.
It's- We're still, that's, that's happening.
I'm so sick of this show.
But, so, but the point, though, is- Yes you are, you are seeing people that are, have unbelievably, high, I guess, capital in their collections.
I think right now is the time to not sell, get rid of your collection.
I think now is the time to take a little off the table, and maybe it's a lot a bit off the table.
Because I cannot foresee a future where we can just considerably sustain what we're looking at right now, where it's everything is at this price.
Yeah.
Every- 'cause the, like you said, the, if every product is up, if everything is corporatized, people, the people that are in this hobby, like, for the mas- vast majority up until recently, were not rich people.
They were- No, we got rich just holding what we had.
Yeah, they were, they were, a lot of them were blue collar workers.
I just spoke to an insur- one of the biggest insurance people in the world about this.
We're hoping to sign him as, like, a spon- like, a big brand deal.
Mm-hmm.
And I was speaking to one of the guys in Jer- like, our whole team, and I was just like, "Here's the problem.
You've got a bunch of guys with collections worth a little bit.
And now, how many card guys legit have a collection in their home- Yeah in a safe, that is worth more than the house they live in?"
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, it's, it's- A ton, and you can't frigging insure it more than less.
By the way, this isn't even a plug yet.
These guys aren't paying us yet.
But I, but I was like, "That shows you, though, this next group of, like, the insurance guys forever were like, that was the next class of million- Like, you wanna be a millionaire, go into insurance."
Yeah.
Like, that is what the card world has become for a ton of us people, and you don't And it, and then it becomes, "Well, what do I do?"
Well, that's my point.
Like, what do you do?
Yeah.
Because at some point, there's not gonna be someone who's gonna pay 5X for- Okay, now I- a billion dollar- Dude, you are killing me.
There's so many O- Otanis out there.
Like, oh- Let me sum up what you're saying.
Two words, end user.
There you go.
That is the end of this dis- Where is the end user for By the way, I'm saying nothing doom and gloom right now.
I still think we have runway for, like, a year or two.
Oh, and, and that's why I'm not saying like, "Oh, sell everything you've got."
Correct.
Yeah, yeah.
I- But I do think take a little off the table.
Maybe, and I don't even care if you do that.
I just mean, I think at some point we've gotta start coming to grips with, man, I'm not sure how much longer we're the cool kids in high school.
Which, by the way, we were both losers in high school, Jesse especially.
So I'm not This is an analogy.
Uh- But you're, so- Voted home- It's like- homecoming king or homecoming king- But then when you go onto the campus and it becomes a college campus- Oh, yeah you are no longer the cool kid.
Yeah.
You're the guy wearing the hotdog suit hanging out with Funkle at a bar.
There there is a difference between Don't disparage the good Funkle name.
You see what I'm saying though?
But I am saying- It is true, though but there's a big difference between a hobby and a corporation.
Yeah.
A hobby, where you make money, and it's like, oh, you think hobby, flea markets- And flipping is cool and mom and pop shops.
Yes.
And yeah, but then corporate is suit and tie, and board meetings, and people care every word that you say.
Yes.
You saying the P word is not gonna fly in those meetings.
So it's like, where do we- You know, you haven't asked recently who's in charge of HR at this company, and it's me.
So P word flies just fine, Pervert.
S- but that's the point, is that we are getting to a point where you can't, you, you won't be able to do things like that.
I agree.
Yeah.
And also I would just say this, what a world we live in when you as an adult show up wearing that shirt.
I say the word pervert, and I'm the pariah in the room.
Isn't that amazing?
Shirt farm.
The shirt farm.
So we- I would sl- Ray has been wearing these for a long time, but this one is- Oh, oh, if Ray does it.
Messing with my dials over here, you idiot.
But I was like, you know what?
I like Ray.
I purposely wore this one here today because I was like, I think this would instill a lot of hostility.
In sight.
In sight.
It would, in sight.
Yeah.
In sight, a lot of hostility.
Leave the big words to me and Stern.
Yep, my bad.
It's a good point, though.
Like, do I think it's cool that all these guys come in?
Yes.
But there are also, if it continues unchecked, there are do- I don't, I don't h- dislike any of the individual moves.
I just mean as a whole- Oh, here- I'm not even using the word hobby 'cause it's the wrong word, but as a section of whatever, this whole group of all the crap we do with cards- Yeah the content, the sponsorships, but the actual cards, the collecting, all of it collectively is moving into a different realm.
Well, the idea of these people coming into the space is also very concerning to me as someone who breaks and does content.
Because what happens when they're, the, the people that are paying those bills, the people that are paying, like, the sponsorships and all that, they're like, "Oh, well, you know, for us, we were a little more established."
But how does anybody break through if they're like, "Oh, why would, why am I gonna get this guy talking about something that he is very knowledgeable about but nobody knows him, and I can go get Kat to go do the same thing?
I can go get him to break.
I'll go give him 100 cases of product- Sure and I'm gonna give those guys, like, two or three because he is a celebrity.
He is an athlete.
People know who that is."
And it's like, well, at the I- if we get to a point where the, the hobby does see, oh, this is corporatization, and it's like, if you go out and look at social media, people don't like photos that have tons of AI in it, right?
Correct.
It's just, like, it's just something that has- None of it they, they are turned off from.
And I think it's gonna happen the same way with, like, oh, another celebrity post of the same thing that I saw.
It's just yeah.
It's like, oh, yeah, I, I don't care.
I don't have that same connection, that caring connection to it as I did before.
I think it's cool, and I do think there's a part of it, a lot of people that are still gonna be like, "Oh, wow, that person cares about cards."
Sure.
But how do they actually develop a real relationship?
I don't think that's where- Correct where I think they- That piece is gonna start to, to leave I think Topps, and I think Fanatics, I think, PSA, I think every big corporate entity in this space needs somebody on the team that thinks from the collector's point of view.
And maybe they just, maybe they've got it and maybe they need more of it.
But get people on that team to give ideas and feedback for initiatives for marketing because it is, it feels like we are entering a space where it's no longer like a, like you said, a fun, you know, we're cool kids in high school type of thing.
It is a, "Oh, well, come to this board meeting.
We're gonna talk about the profit margins and the red line and everything else- Yeah, yeah we need to discuss."
I wonder what's going on in my high school.
Woodiya Regional Vocational Technical High School.
I'd like to go back and give a speech there someday.
What would you say?
Like, "CJ Craig, the promise of a generation."
I believe that's season- Who's CJ Craig?
I believe that's season four.
Oh, dear God.
Claudia Jean, press secretary who becomes chief of staff, you idiot.
Do you have anything to drink?
There's a to- I, my dad spent like $100.
I mean, are you, can you rant for, like- Oh, fuck you.
Yeah.
I'm sorry, everybody.
Give me two minutes.
Yeah, okay.
Jesse's dead, so.
This is good, our first walk-off.
Oh, yeah, by the way, yeah, stop in front of the camera, you idiot, so they can see this, this perfunctory piece of garbage or I don't know if that's the right word.
There you go.
I mean, it's unreal.
There you go.
It's just- And then here's the back Yeah, you know, I can't say anything.
I've chosen to be in business with this person.
Oh, that's Dr. Doom on the back.
Daffy Doom.
Yes.
Well, technically I think it's Donald- He's still yapping, by the way.
He walks away, no microphone.
I'll tell you another big disappointment with this studio, my father, who is supposed to now be a recurring guest, Papa Geo, 'cause he doesn't have anything else with his time, still not here.
0 for 2 in the Have you noticed this?
I- Geo is 0 for 2 in the stud- oh, what'd you get there?
Diet Coke?
Beer, bro.
I'm drinking a, drinking a Miller- Are you really?
No.
It's a coffee soda.
Is that yours?
Yeah.
Oh, I was gonna say, there's no way he So you asked me if I had a drink and you already had drinks in there.
Well, like, on you.
Okay.
I wanted a sip of your drink.
You get, you use that coaster.
Or not.
I, by the way, I'm gonna tell you right now, I didn't care for all the drinks on this desk without coasters.
If I- The, they- could just ask- if you could put the tum- your stupid tumblers.
Those, those don't need, tumblers don't need coasters.
Oh, okay.
Anyways, so just a f- like I said, this is not a doom and gloom.
It's nothing.
This was just I, I keep seeing these headlines.
It's good now.
Is it always gonna be good?
I don't know.
So that's it.
Brendan has something to talk about.
Oh, yeah.
Brendan prepped us ahead of time.
He's gonna talk to us about the Facebook Group.
And he said individually- which is useless, 'cause I'm gonna go to Jesse and vice versa, unless it's about Jesse.
Brendan, you can jump on, please.
What's going on?
And you also had a tone.
Did you say Brennan?
Brennan, Bren, Brendan.
Jump on here.
Brendan.
Brenyan.
Um- The, Brendan so first of all, I, I just need to address Jesse's shirt before we get to Facebook.
Ooh, yeah.
Let's do it.
Dude, I thought you were wearing a kimono.
The Japanese would never allow that.
I, I can tell you- as a culture they would not accept this guy like this.
No shot.
Theshirtfarm.com.
There you go.
Oh my God.
Oh, we should've gotten a plug for that.
Don't take the- Dang it Lord's name in vain, by the way.
I don't care for that.
All right.
Go.
So Brendan told us, "Hey, off the..." Yeah, number, well, let me just ask you.
Before you say anything else, let me have a, a series, let me conduct an interview quickly.
Yeah.
Who put you up to this?
'Cause I could tell by your tone this wasn't your original thought.
Who, who's the mastermind behind whatever's about to happen?
Uh- The- I'm sure if you had one guess you could guess it.
So this is- And you w- Jeremy or Jeremy and Chris or all the partners?
Who?
Um- Jeremy and Chris.
Both?
Uh- Okay.
Okay.
Both.
By the way- The- if any of this gets cut, everybody's getting a notice, so.
No, no, no, no, no.
Good?
Thi- this isn't bad.
So basically what I was gonna talk to you about, Mike, was- Awesome.
Fair.
Yep the last time you put out a call to action in the Facebook Group for writers at SI- Yep we got tons of interaction, and we got a ton of writers, myself included.
Oh.
So I was gonna ask you if you could do that again this afternoon.
Oh.
Oh.
Well- He s- he had a very ominous tone.
Okay.
Hey, if you wanna write for si.com/collectibles, Brendan is a managing editor, editor.
Email him.
Where, what, what do you want him email?
What's- Just so we clear, his name is Brendan, though.
Brendan.
Brendan.
Where do you want to be- where's the email?
Brendan, B-R-E-N-D-A-N, @sportscardsnonsense.com.
It's cards- It's cards by the way.
Yeah.
Cards.
The amount of idiots- even people who pay us checks, large checks- don't know that name.
Brendan@sportscardsnonsense.com.
You get paid for all the views, so if something goes viral you can make, like, you know, $85,000.
It's worth it.
That- Email Brendan seems high.
Okay.
Yeah.
What else you got?
This was not bad so far.
Yeah, so far so good.
Was that it?
No, there's one for you.
He said separately.
That was it for, that was it for Mike.
Oh.
What does Jesse- I didn't wanna waste Jesse's- Oh.
Jesse, I need him to help me organize the moderators on the Facebook Group so we can talk.
Oh.
Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's actually, there's already chats that you can just be added into, I'm sure.
Yeah, I got kicked out of them.
Oh, okay.
Not the one with us you didn't.
Okay.
All right.
Well, yeah, we, I'm sure we can- Fly in here.
We got a fruit fly loose in here.
They're fruit flies.
Yeah, they were, they were here on Monday too.
But yeah, we can definitely make that happen.
Hi, buddy.
What's going on over there?
I guess nothing.
Are you still in my house?
Or get rid of the fruit that's moldy.
But yes, yeah, yeah.
We can- Something drastic measures we can make sure it's I, I, I wonder do Well, I don't wanna call anybody out, so yes, why don't we get, a group together, a separate group from whatever group you were in and, uh- Adam didn't want we're in we'll go from there.
Oh, that's not all the a- that's all, that's all you had, Brendan.
Yeah, that's not all the a- yeah.
That wasn't bad at all.
W- anything else?
I was trying to tell you it wasn't ominous, and I was trying to tell you it wasn't workload for your time.
Well, when you come in you're like, "Hey, I have to talk to you both about the Facebook Group."
Separately.
Separately.
It was like, oh, boy.
Well, there's something happening here.
Yeah.
No.
It went well.
Thank you, Brendan.
You're welcome.
Brendan.
Brendan.
Yeah.
Thank you.
All right.
Brenda.
I, I also did, to make the note, did you see the Cooper Flagg debut patch?
Obviously it got pulled.
We, that happened after the show ended on Monday.
What a sham.
Pulled in Rhode Island, Tim doesn't know the guys.
Oh, really?
The smallest Right?
Isn't Rhode Island the smallest state- It's gotta be in the country?
I believe that's true.
Obviously the capital is Delaware.
Yep.
So the point that I was gonna make was- Ow do you see what the, the price of it is at this point?
No.
I mean, there was a, what, $2 million bounty I think at one point.
The cost of the card is still two weeks out, I believe.
With buyer's premium it is $3.6 million.
Wait, it's for sale already?
Yeah.
Well, so this is what the This is a weird thing that people are talking about.
So I guess there were a few options that this person, whoever got the card, they could have chosen.
They could have taken one of the many bounties that were out there.
Mm-hmm.
but I guess Goldin said, "Well, you could do this.
You could put it up on auction, and if it goes for," I guess the amount that they wanted it to, whichever, however many millions that was, "then you sell it."
And if not, it's basically, I think it's like, it felt like a reserve auction or something like that.
Okay.
So at this point I believe it is probably past that number.
Is it on Goldin?
Yeah.
Oh, I didn't even know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like, it's- By the way, what if- it's at 3.6 million with the- B premium buyer premium.
By the way, can we just address this too?
'Cause I know everybody, this was, like, one of the most talked about cards ever.
It's probably top three most talked about advertised cards behind, like, Ohtani and the Skeens.
It was pulled by guys not on a Fanatics platform.
They don't have direct allocation.
They have almost no social media presence.
I just wanna make sure- I, I think- every time people scream- Yeah "But does this mean that there's never a loaded box situation?"
No.
I think there probably are still some and some marketing things that happen.
But I do also think when something like this happens, it's okay to be like, "Hey, you know what?"
Maybe not everything's a fricking game Yeah, I agree That's all.
I a- Look, I'm not saying it, it justifies everything that's ever happened in the history of cards, but it is funny.
If you're gonna shill one card and, like, make sure you knew where this one was going, to have it pull And I love their fricking reaction.
They were, like, the most calm- Exactly.
No one- I, I actually thought it was pretty good there no screaming, just a normal- Yeah but it is- And, and case pricing, by the way, almost another just absolute myth.
"Oh, when the Chase card ha- everything plummets."
Oh, yeah.
Those cases were selling on Blowout.
Delight cases, the only one I've been tracking, were selling for $23,999 on Friday.
Or excuse me, on Monday.
You know what they're selling for today.
How much?
$22,999.
They went down $1,000.
I can tell you that has nothing to do with Cooper.
There is a- I would be willing to bet that with some more time they'll probably end up going a little up from there Of course.
Yeah.
Not- no product is ever dependent in value on one single card being pulled, ever.
It is the biggest myth in cards.
It just is.
I'm trying to find the debut patch on Golden, so maybe, maybe I need to put a caveat- Maybe you're lying I, I, I know I saw there was a whole Golden thing, so maybe I, I just can't find it Well, Golden made a big thing saying- Real quick, guys, can I hop back in here?
It's not on Golden.
Who is this?
It's Bryan.
It, Bryan?
Bryan Yun.
Sorry.
Bryan Yun.
Okay, go ahead.
It, the auction is a, is, it's on Alt, and it's not- Oh consigned to Alt.
It is only for the bounties through Alt.
Okay.
So they haven't consigned it to Alt.
It is literally just Alt is running a bounty auction to see how high it can get, and then the guys that pulled it can choose to accept that or they can consign it elsewhere.
Oh, so they're running, like, a faux auction.
Like, we're gonna run an auction.
Right.
If the price is high enough, we will then sell it, but if not, no, we just cancel it, no harm, no foul.
Well, I Hang on, maybe I'm confused.
You're definitely confused.
So, so who, the people that are bidding, they're not actually going to- They're bidding on the rights to buy the card.
The- They, they are bidding- If a deal was made to have a bounty for it.
It is a confirmed bounty.
So someone's, so on top of, like, say, the 3.6 million, there's also going to be, say, another two million?
No, they're saying, like, let's run, let's, this auction's gonna run.
I think I understand what, what Bryan Yun's saying.
It's gonna run.
Yep.
If you're the highest at the end of it and the bounty, or your, your bid, which is really a bounty, 'cause you don't have the item, it gets up to five million when it ends.
Mm-hmm.
Hey, guy who owns the card, Rhode Island guy, here's a $5 million offer courtesy of Alt, because somebody bid that technically over there.
Is that right, right?
But- Yeah, that's exactly- But if the guy's like, "No, it's not enough, I'm just not gonna do it," it's actually kind of a genius thing- So- for the, for the buyer so it is an auction but the, the, the reserve is not preset.
It's just the reserve- There is no reserve I know, but, no, not technically, but really the guy just decides, "Hey, it wasn't high enough, so I'm not gonna take it."
Correct.
So there is a reserve in this guy's mind, it's just not set on the system.
He has nothing to do with Alt either.
The card isn't even there.
Alt is just- Yeah running this totally separate, and at the end they're gonna be, "Hey, by the way, w- the card you have not given to us"- Good luck with this.
There's no one The, people are gonna bid this to t- $50 million- Actually- and there's not gonna be a real dollar spent I was gonna say, is it legally binding?
'Cause it'd be funny just going there- Exactly and drop a $50 billion.
Exactly.
Look, I, I, I have a lot of trouble with whatever that is, 'cause that's even more ridiculous.
Okay.
Seems dumb.
I don't even care.
Yeah, I didn't I thought, I thought there was something like that happening with Alt, though, but I didn't know.
I just saw a few headlines on it and I was like, "Well, let me just double-check."
I'm glad you had the Alt information.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Well, that, I mean- Biggest contributor to the show Alt has also got the $20 million Mickey Mouse over there right now.
Do you see that?
Listen, when it, when there's a card up for sale for 20 million and it's a, like a legitimate, like, "Hey, there's chances people could spend that kind of money," it has to be mentioned.
These type of people.
These type of people.
I don't know.
I don't have a lot to say.
These type of people.
This is where you get your dad in here.
This is w- this is the kind of commentary people wanna hear.
Yeah, the reaction to him.
Yeah, exactly.
$20 million for a Mickey Mouse?
Why'd he bulge ya?
God, such an idiot.
Had fun with Dad yesterday.
Yeah.
Had a little, speaking of a nostalgic hobby moment, got to take Dad to, uh- Don't what is it?
Parole?
Don't.
Dang it.
Not parole.
What's it called?
I knew you were gonna say this.
Um- I think this is actually bond courthouse?
No.
No, the courthouse, the date is the end of August.
And by the way, anybody in the community wants to come, Gallatin Courthouse, we could use the support.
Any- It's an open room there's a GoFundMe going for- Well, there definitely- We bailing out- I'd like to get my bond money back.
He'll be there.
Um- Oh, yeah I believe before the court case, it is bond, these are bond speculations.
After, he then gets put on par- parole or probation.
So he doesn't have to go in.
I thought you were thinking maybe for a few days.
Oh, no, he's going to jail.
Oh, he i- oh.
But that's once the court date happens.
Oh.
This is before the court date.
Oh.
You have bond stipulations.
Oh, okay.
So there- You, you should be here to talk about this, dummy.
Here's the thing.
I literally just saw, like, the comedian- Yeah like Tiffany Haddish got a DUI in Georgia like two, three years ago, and she just got off with, like, community service.
How come You can't pull some strings and- There's levels to this, pal come on, bro.
There's levels to this type of stuff.
Get Papa, I How long is he gonna, supposed to go in, for a few days?
I think he's thinking a week.
Okay.
A week to a month.
A week's a, I mean, that's kinda like a vacation.
I, I'd go in for a week.
You would love it.
Throw me in for a week.
Isn't that what got us in trouble last time when I said you'd love prison after certain- Well, don't say that certain comments were- Well, w- when you say it like that- Well, you would, though I'm saying I would enjoy some downtime.
You're saying you would love- You know, I'd get some books you're saying you would love prison.
Do you think I'd have to do yard work or something?
I am not in for that.
I am not going- You can do that now.
Yeah well, that's what I'm saying.
You don't have to be in- throw me in the hole is what I'm saying.
Throw me in the hole day one.
That's all I want.
I wanna be in the cell with all the What?
Okay.
Move along.
Uh- Mailbag.
Short episode.
Mailbag.
Yeah, yeah.
We have mailbag and I have topics, so go ahead.
Okay.
So- Oh, oh, we'll go back and forth.
You do one, I do one.
Okay.
We should just send these to Brendan.
Brendan could do a podcast.
Brendan?
Bryan, Bryan Yun could do a podcast.
I, well, k- that actually would be kind of fun.
Brendan, maybe in the future we do that.
'cause I mean, he can just go to the Facebook and find them.
Yeah, he's like you in real life, just sitting there doing nothing right now.
He has no way to work right now, right?
Jeremy Roper has a question: ethical question/argument to settle between me and a friend.
I'll, I'll take this if it has to do with ethics.
Yeah, I know.
Jesse over here.
I, that's why I'm going to this one.
I knew you'd have fun.
Pervert alert.
I have a item listed on eBay.
Oh.
There is a better He's saying, "Say a True Orange versus my True Gold."
Good, better, best.
"So there is a better card going for less than my listing ending sooner than mine.
Is it ethical for me to bid it up- so that other listing..." And he also says, "I'm fully intending to pay and buy it if I win," so that the other listing, helps keep comparables up.
That seems to me like market manipulation.
Here's the thing, I understand why you're asking- Of course, that's why you asked me- because I would want to not Jesse.
No, he- He would do this in a heartbeat.
No, I'm saying I would want to- Let me tell you how this plays out for Jesse.
He texts his cellmate- Dear Lord, my cellmate "Hey guys, bid up- hey guys, bid up the orange."
Hey cellies- Yeah get your- Bid up the orange get your burners out.
I need you to hit- Well, they give you an iPad now create an account.
Uncle Tom had an iPad.
No way, really?
Yeah.
Are you kidding me?
Mm-hmm, he was in like a level one.
Yeah, they got- In jail or prison?
I don't technically know the Call my dad.
Jail's like county.
Call Dad real quick.
Oh.
Ooh, this will be the first test.
Oh, this is the first phone call n- yeah.
Yeah, it'll be a first test to see if he'll get us.
I'll answer that while he's calling.
Sure.
It just Yeah, I, to me Jeremy, it's like you are artif- I know you're going to pay for it, but still, you're, you're doing that.
The motive for you is not, "I want Highbid to win the card."
The motive is, "I want this to help the value of mine."
To me, I'm not a fan.
Now, if you were just like, "Hey, I think this thing is selling way too cheap 'cause I think mine's worth way more," and you wanna buy it for that reason, buy it.
Like, go nuts.
But the fact that you've kind of already said I know Jeremy a little bit.
The fact that you've already said the like, "Oh, I'm doing this because I want..." No, I'm just like, eh.
Honestly, it's one of those things you know it when you see it.
Yeah, a- I would ask you, Jeremy, if you saw this- Am I gonna hear a ring or no?
Well, I, as soon as I'm done talking I'm gonna hit the ring button.
Oh.
I would just ask you, Jeremy, if you saw somebody else's cards, the, the exact same situation, but your card was not involved, would you do the same?
No.
I'm, I'm guessing- That's what he's saying you probably wouldn't.
Of course not.
Right?
So it's like if you wouldn't do it for somebody else's, then you probably don't believe in it that much, that strongly.
Why they say monkey see, monkey do.
Does that come into effect here?
Call Dad.
Monkey pee and poo-poo.
David has a good question, "I'm happy with CardMonster.
It shows my Jordan's going up almost daily.
Do you think his cards will keep going up or do you think it will cool off at some point?"
Hey.
Hey, what's the difference between jail and prison?
Jail is county.
Prison's, prison's a state.
So it- Are you going- It- You're, you're going to jail, correct?
They're not sending you to state for this, right?
No, no, just county jail.
Anything, if you, anything over one year- Oh you go to, you go to s- you go to state prison.
I saw that there- That's why, that's why they give you 359 days.
Once it's over a year, sentence, you go to state prison.
I, I pr- I assume that jail- Sure is better than prison, right?
Well, yeah.
It's not, it's- You're not getting hardened criminals in there.
Well, it's just still criminal.
J- they'll, they'll put, they'll put me with guys that had my same kind of offense.
You know what I mean?
I, I saw the other day there's some guys who get to go fishing while they're in jail if they do, you know, do good.
Well, that, that was at my Da- that was at my dad's age when they were cooking pasta in the, in the jail cell.
Oh, man.
All right.
You saw Goodfellas and everything?
I- But yeah.
That was real?
Hey, didn't Tom get- Yeah, that was real.
Yeah didn't Tom get an iPad in j- in jail?
Yeah, you, they have them now.
Yep.
Was that jail or was that prison?
S- it's a house of corrections.
Very similar to jail.
Usually it's up to one year.
Yeah, he got an i- You can spend- He got an iPad though like Ru- Russ, Russ was in house of correction for three years in Lawrence.
It's like the next step up.
But usually for any kind of violent, anything serious, you go to state prison after a year.
Oh, okay.
But you could stay in house of correction over a year, but the county jail's one year.
Man, this is great.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
Ma- max, max usually.
Yeah.
So.
All right.
I don't know what the new rules are, but- Thank you, Geo we'll see.
All right, see you, kid.
Bye.
Well, there you go.
Really cleared it up for us.
Phone line sounded nice.
No shot that audio works.
I th- I think it does.
I think, I think it, it's gonna work.
I honestly The, I love how un, I guess- Unaffected unes- I, I don't wanna say unashamed.
I don't think he should feel ashamed, but it's like he, there's no- Unaffected filter as far as how he feels.
He just talks about it very free.
I love that.
Well, there you go.
I'm glad my dad could help you with this call.
Dear Lord, don't you dare throw me under the bus.
Okay, Dominic V, "Do you feel that we should focus more on educating those around us right now to keep the hobby alive and not be spending their savings on something that's a quarter of the price or to just keep buying?"
This, this, Dom, I, I like this question too.
Mm-hmm.
This relates to what we're talking about.
Don't just get caught up in the hype or, hey, big corporations are putting money in, so you should put money in.
Yeah.
That is not what normal people should do in a hobby.
Yes.
That is what businessmen should do in a corporation.
I agree.
Yeah, 'cause- Very clear distinction there are a lot of people viewing these as investments, and investments- Which is fine a lot of people overpay for those investments- Sure because they are pricing it at future values, not at today's value necessarily.
So I would not get caught up.
If you feel even a little bit uneasy, it may not be worth it, especially if you're feeling like, "Oh, this is gonna take away from my, my ability to pay bills."
Also, I would say this, secret secrets are no fun.
Secret secrets hurt someone.
Okay, next question, Jesse.
So actually to piggyback on that, it's not a question, but it is something from Andrew.
Uh- Who's Andrew?
Andrew Segerson.
Oh, yeah.
So you know Andrew.
So he- I introduced you to Andrew.
I know him.
Yes.
Actually, you know what?
I could, we could do a back-to-back.
He actually sent me an audio message with this information.
You gonna call him?
No, no, no.
Or should I do the intro?
It's a, it's an audio message.
I can just hit play on it.
Okay.
Yeah, Andrew Segerson, one of the- Andrew Segerson.
Hey, I am recording this rather than typing it 'cause it's a lot.
Oh, God.
Great to see you at the National.
Nice to meet you in person.
I think something- Can- your viewers- Can you pause this?
Slash listeners would be interested in learn- Okay.
Yeah, okay.
Just wanna make sure.
I just, I, I like to be able to- Oh, okay I like to know if, what I can do here.
Okay, go ahead about is there is a substantial difference between a market bubble, which is what people are talking about right now, and a market expansion.
And so people are getting confused.
You'll usually only have bubbles because there's a limited amount of people inside of the market, and they're continuing to speculate and drive prices, i.e.
Luka, you know, 2001 Gary Vee.
People buy it, buy it, buy it thinking it's just speculation, speculation versus what we're really seeing right now, which is a market expansion- Pause an increase in- Both can be true, though.
Okay.
Like, I think this thing is expanding.
I also think the amount of people who have an appetite to, I, I mean, gamble, risk money is also huge right now, which is leading to some of these prices.
That's true, too.
Yeah.
Like, I think both.
I don't think these are mutually exclusive over there, Will Stern.
Okay.
You think Will Stern listens?
That'd be great.
He'd be like, "I, I noticed like a quote of like four..." No idea who he is.
Will, why don't you call in next time?
He's really knowledgeable and he's a really nice guy.
You'd like him.
You've said this a lot.
What are you doing?
I'm just letting you know.
You guys, are you trying to get a job?
No, no, no.
I just, I, I've had a call with him for a little bit.
We talked about a lot of non-sports stuff, so.
Oh, what a treat that must have "Hey, Will.
I, I bought a Pikachu- " and I pushed a kid at Target."
Hey, I, I- "Oh, I wrote an article."
I'm gonna- Okay, go ahead I'm gonna let Andrew continue.
Yeah, please With people collecting and people are getting anchored to the prices, the old school people, the people that have been in the hobby a long time, they're anchored back five, 10 years ago when prices were different, and there's this whole swath of new people, massive amounts of new people, that their price anchoring is a year ago.
So these prices are not driving them out.
And then secondarily, more money coming into the space, more people coming into the space- Okay, pause.
I need to do this.
Pause it again real quick.
I get what he's saying.
My pushback, though, is, and s- by the way, Segerson What, what's- I would, I just, I kinda wanna let him finish and then- But he's mo- he's changing the subject, 'cause he goes secondly.
He's getting ready to make another point.
Okay, okay.
That point, though, about, I, I agree.
Yeah.
A lot of guys have capital.
Also, Andrew, and I, who I like in real life, by the way.
But not right now.
No, no, I do.
But he is also, like, top 1% of 1%, even in the hobby.
Like, his collection is unreal.
He's, got an insane collection.
He has, I think he has legit real money- Yeah period.
I just worry that the guys who are a step or two below him, who still have six, seven-figure collections, maybe they were anchored to those prices 'cause of when they got it.
Mm-hmm.
But how do you continue to be involved in the hobby without moving some of those pieces?
And maybe they don't wa- that was kinda my argument in the first piece.
Yeah.
Back then you could still buy these anchor type pieces because I'm never gonna sell.
You can't go out and do that as easily with pricing going up.
Well, and I think a lot of what he was trying to convey, too- I don't even disagree, just a little bit, you know was just like, "Hey, there's so much talk about bubble."
Yeah.
But is it really a bubble?
Is it just more people coming in- And I don't, I don't, I- at this price- Yeah and now we're viewing it as, oh, well, I, I came in when Griffey's were What's a Griffey selling for right now?
5 grand?
You came in when the Norm Griffey- Like- was 6,000 bucks like it is now.
Exactly.
I get it.
And now people are paying- For me it was 1,200, so it's like, I'm never, I'm not getting- Exactly.
I get that.
Okay.
I, and I don't think it's a bubble.
Okay.
But I think there are some aspects where I look and I'm like, "Oh, this is just not sustainable."
Okay.
Bubble or not.
Anyways, go ahead.
Second point.
They're seeing, hey, if I wanna build a portfolio around some of these things- Oh, boy I need to have these grail cards, and there is a limited supply of these grail cards.
That's not a bubble, that's an expansion.
Okay, okay.
And there's a huge difference- Oh, Jesus in economics about that.
By the way, I have an economics degree in addition to my law degree.
So price anchoring- Called him right now I have this in my mind- Call Segerson what prices should be from when I started collecting.
Almost there.
And of course, it's 100x that now, so I'm freaking out.
And secondarily, expansion- This is third, thirdly all these new people coming in, including all this new wealth, and they're buying sports cards, and that prices aren't as important to them because they're trying to build a portfolio, and they're used to the higher price.
But that's my fear.
Pri- he just s- by the way, he is way smarter with this stuff than I'm ever gonna be.
Don, the economics part, take aside.
Sure.
In the hobby, though, that last thing, prices are not important because they're building a portfolio.
Yeah.
You know what, another time, this is something I can speak to a little bit, when prices were not important, which we're kinda coming around to this part now.
In 2008, 2005 to 2008- Oh, property when home prices weren't important because everybody needs a place to live- Yeah and we build upon Well, they're important when you cannot sustain that, and you have to then sell off, or something else in your life changes, and you need to get rid of this portfolio piece.
That is where the fear is.
I don't think as a whole the hobby is there yet.
Are there individuals in the hobby or certain corporate places that are coming in that are there?
Yes.
But I think so many people need to never worry about that stuff, 'cause it's way beyond their pay grade.
The only thing is, like, back in 2008 there was a, the reason why we saw a collapse was there was a lot of people who were, they had homes, they had these mortgages that they couldn't afford to pay, and they shouldn't have gotten the mortgage in the first place, right?
Of course.
So it was just a lot of money that was being lent that shouldn't have been lent.
Mm-hmm.
But in this case, it's not really being lent, right?
Like, but it is- No, you're using money from other stuff, though- But- to, to buy a card.
Well, it, I think there's a lot of times where it's like, oh, well, this card is what I'm using to buy that other card, or I'm going to use this jersey to buy that other piece of memorabilia.
And it's this perception that there is a lot of value in there.
And even though it's not borrowed, it is still something that's not technically real.
Correct.
That's what I mean.
So when something else happens, like, hey, my home interest is still really high and all these other things are expensive, and instead of having this money in the bank that I would normally, here's my slush fund to, to make up for when everything else got slow, it's now tied up in a piece of cardboard.
Yeah.
Well, oh, by the way, maybe that cardboard is worth a lot less now than when you paid for it, so it's not enough to cover the losses in these other areas.
That's where I start to worry that a lot of us, and again, this is not an Andrew problem, 'cause Andrew is an economics guy and understands this.
This is the, the guys like myself and below, way less experience in economics, tons of capital in cards- Mm-hmm but not, and I'll just come out and say it, like, I'm not a crazy financially literate person.
I've, I've tr- I, like, I've done a lot of research and I have a lot of meetings with people to help me do this stuff.
Sure But if you just all of a sudden have a net worth or have a value because your cards have gone up, it doesn't all of a sudden mean you're smart Well, that's why I've been saying- So that's why it's like an, I, I, you know.
And that's why I've, emphasized the idea of maybe take a little off the table because what could happen- Sure and I'm hoping it does not happen, but what could happen is similar to how the market corrected because, oh, well, we started seeing it wasn't just the writing on the wall anymore, it was, hey, here's actual people not paying those bills, and all of the banks that were backing them couldn't afford to not let them pay anymore, and we saw a collapse.
I don't It, it's a different situation here, but it could be very similar into the sense of, oh, well, I can't afford to take your card in exchange for what I have right now because I need to go pay- I need capital bills with that.
Yeah, yeah.
I need to go do something else with that.
Right.
So if we c- get to a point in the economy, the, not just card economy, but in the overall economy where we do see, like, a bigger downturn, that's my, my fear.
And that's something that is harder to predict and know if- Of course and when that's going to happen.
Yeah.
But by the way, like, even that, and I'm not gonna try to make Like, that's why, by the way, we've bought almost no real estate the last year and a half.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I have friends.
The people I speak to about that pretty regularly, about a year ago, were like, "Hey, not as many buyers.
Interest rates have still not come down.
A lot of stock on the market."
Like, there's a lot of inventory out there.
And I don't care about the politics, but whatever the act is that Trump passed where it's the whole you can only own 100 homes as a corporation, you can't come in and just buy hundreds and hundreds and thousands of homes.
Oh, that's a thing.
Oh, it was passed, I believe, this year.
Uh-huh.
Like, my buddies were kinda saying, "Hey, maybe pump the brakes because if home values come down, you don't wanna be upside down."
Oh, sure.
I'm not saying that's happening either.
I just mean you have a lot of different areas of life, and if we're gonna consider this like, hey, it's assets and it's this and that.
By the way, if you're in this because you collect and you love it and you spend a couple bucks for the kids, none of this matters.
Yeah, this is- Great the more of the economy of it.
But there's a lot of people in this thing that if, if cards went to zero or, or, or even went down 40% tomorrow, it would affect other aspects of life.
That's where I start to worry, getting back to the corporate side, but that's fine.
Yeah.
That's enough.
How many, like, of the people, the new people that have been coming in, because we both agree, like, there's new people that have come in, how many of them do you think are pure collectors?
I- So when you say pure- Like a percentage.
So a- again- The, the ones- define pure the ones that would tune out to this conversation because they don't think it matters.
New people?
Yeah.
5%.
I think Yeah, I think that may be high, but- And, and only th- those are the guys our age who are now coming back and like, "Dude, I'm buying 10 cards this year.
I'm buying this Griffey, this..." They come back with the cards they had 30 years ago.
They're buying those.
They love it.
They don't care.
I- So there's a few like that, but the vast, vast- I hope I'm wrong majority- I do hope I'm wrong you're not wrong because I do think, like, there's a lot of kids that are joining, and they're like, they're 'Cause there were kids- Oh at the show that were like- That's true "Oh, here's..." I gave them packs of cards, and they're like, oh- Higher number, yeah base cards.
They, they have base cards, and they were happy.
And I'm like, "That's awesome."
Oh, okay, so yeah, 25%.
So i- if I consider the kids, but it's like- If you take kids out of it- But take kids out, I think- I think 90 to 95% yeah, that's more of where I'm at.
Having trouble with this microphone.
Okay.
S- Theo is on his way to the studio.
You'll be happy to know.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Can we put him on air?
He had a rough time- Why?
At school.
Two days today.
Why?
Tuesday, Tuesday and today.
I thought he was doing good.
He did not, he did not wanna go to school.
Screaming.
Is he, is he getting bullied?
I- Do I need to talk to somebody?
I kind of wish you would a little.
He needs to be bullied a little bit.
He needs to be bullied.
A little bit, but I don't know.
A- He had a great time you sh- you should be the bully.
I'm the, I'm Charlie's bully.
You can be his bully.
That's why your kids always use.
No, I, I will not intervene.
Okay.
All right.
Don't help the child.
No.
Okay.
Let them help themselves.
Next question.
Go ahead.
Is it mine or yours?
Okay.
Um- I've been reading mine occasionally.
I, I've got a couple more.
We, we don't have to react to all these.
There's a couple more.
Like Don, I, Don Getters says, "With 90% of the content out there and what I see at shows, when it comes to supposed liquid cards, everything just seems like a game of hot potato."
I also saw this at the show, and somebody made a very interesting point.
As much as we talk about Jordan- and Jordan is almost unparalleled.
Otani's on that level, but it's such a short period.
Like, if you're going GOATs, like retired guys, Jordan is at a different level.
Yeah.
It is weird, though.
He made s- like, it wasn't Don, but it ties in with this.
He made the point of like, "Dude, you ever notice even though everybody loves Jordan, he's like the GOAT, and everyone..." He is, like, the most tr- his cards move more than anybody else.
Yeah, nobody's actually holding them.
And a lot of people are.
I'm not knocking that, but, like, go to the show and try to find Like, there's 10 Brady rookies you just won't see for sale, sale at a show, period.
Like, there are- Oh, yeah other guys.
Look at Tiger Woods.
Now granted, way, way less quantity.
Mm-hmm.
You don't see Like, guys buy that.
It is funny to me some of the guys that just move so frequently.
Anyways, his whole point was like, "Is it concerning at all that a good portion of the youth in the hobby aren't maybe the end users?"
Yes, absolutely.
I think there are still a lot, but yeah, you, the ba- that balance always gets to me.
So go ahead.
So Tristan Brown wanted to know what is- Tristan one card you both regret selling.
Mine may be more wax related than a specific card.
I'm trying to think- Take finances out of it of a card.
What's the card you regret selling because- Oh, like- you liked it?
'cause I liked it.
Yeah.
Um- 'Cause I can see where your little greedy Mickey Mouse brain's going.
"I coulda sold this Donald Duck for a dollar."
It wasn't even Disney.
It wasn't even Disney related.
It was Star Wars.
It was Shocker.
Oh my goodness.
I will just say for all you Pokemon- Oh, please no kids out there, I did have a, a case of 151 ETBs, and I sold them at, like, 70 bucks a pop 'cause I got them thinking, "Oh, it's 151.
It's the original.
Everyone's gonna love it."
Whoa.
And at first nobody cared.
No.
And nobody was buying, and I sold them at, like, 70 bucks a pop, and those things are Ooh, an ETB.
Actually, I don't know if it's- in the hundreds or thousands now, but yeah- Oh, thousands of ETBs it's crazy.
It Dude, those ETBers.
So a specific card, though, would be I did have a, a w- Luke Skywalker 1977, Star Wars.
The blue rookie?
Yep.
I had a higher grade one.
Like, it was, like, a six or seven or something.
Okay.
And at the time I think it was going for a few hundred bucks, and I was like, "Eh, you know what?
It's gone up, $100 from the time I bought it."
Sure.
"And I'm okay with getting, like, a lower grade one."
I have, like, two, maybe three lower grade ones, but that card now would be multiples of thousands, and it's just like, oh, well, I wish I- But do you miss the card or do you miss the profit?
Oh, I, I miss the- Oh, yeah, so I missed the profit That's what I says to you.
See, you're all There's a problem with you Because I- But that's the problem is, like- You're the scum new guy there's so few cards out there where it's like- Ugh I have- Trash bag I have the card.
I still have it.
I just don't have that higher graded card.
Because, like, at, why, if, if anybody- actually cares about the card, why do you care so much that it's the one of one versus the base card?
I mean, it- Oh, 'cause the one of one's r- sc- scarce and rare, and it's the best version of that card Why do you care if it's scarce and rare?
'Cause I'm the only one who has it.
I like it more.
Oh, okay.
It has nothing to do with the value, though?
Oh, a lot of times it does, but I'm asking you- I would say every time it has something to do with the value Not every time.
Some guys just like ha- being the only one who has that piece, 'cause that's their connection to the player.
For sure.
I find it hard to believe- That's the difference here, though to think that that's- I say give me one without money, and all you do is you ramble about some loser- Oh, God who got his hand cut off by his dad I would like to just emphasize the point that- In Cloud City I still have- On fricking Lando a lot of the cards that I've ever sold.
I just have other versions, lower cost versions.
Yeah, because you're a greedy motherf- Because I, the, because I can show those off just as easily, and the people that don't know anything about cards, and I can still say, "Hey, look at this card.
It's really cool.
I like."
There you go.
See, this I like.
And they don't care.
They don't care if it was- Okay like a one of one or a base card.
So- I will tell you this, the biggest regret I have of s- not even a card.
I had You might have even seen this.
See, this is one we need you to throw it up.
Pull up the Home Run Kings photo.
I'm gone.
Home Run Kings autographed photo, and maybe use the word lightning.
If you hit images under the tab there.
You're, you're throwing too much at me.
Hang on.
Give me a second.
Home Run Kings autograph lightning.
Just search it images.
Don't look on eBay.
There was a cool piece, I believe it was '91, early '90s, Atlantic City, all 11 living members of the 500 Home Run Club at the time, got together for the show at Atlantic City.
They signed it.
You needed, like, an individual ticket, like, to go to each booth.
Hey, you give them the ticket, they autograph this poster.
Okay.
Ho- Home Run Kings- 1990?
Don't even put that.
Just Home Run Kings autographed photo.
Okay.
500 and lightning.
Put lightning in there.
No, she'll know what that means, AI.
Yeah.
And so let me see if we can pull this up.
This is what's great.
You can actually see everything that I'm searching now.
Images.
Do images up top.
You gotta click the images tab.
I think that's it right there, but- Yeah, click it, yeah.
That's it.
That's it.
Click it.
Click it.
Click.
You want me to click it?
Expand the image.
This is terrible.
Okay.
See, this, this is a terrible copy of it, but they had nice ones that were, like, lithographs, and, like, the artist had signed some of these things as well.
Man, I'm trying to remember who it was.
You got some awesome names.
So if you could blow that up a little bit.
You got Mantle, Mays, Hank Aaron, Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, Mike Schmidt, Reggie Jackson, Willie McCovey.
Oh, I'm missing a couple.
Who else?
Oh, it is like a lightning bolt.
Now I see why it's lightning.
Yeah, it's the shape.
It's like a lightning Oh, 25% off.
I see.
Who am I missing?
So- That's, Frank Robinson's in there description.
Willie M- Harmon Killebrew.
I think I'm missing Oh, and Eddie Matthews.
There's your 11 guys.
The 11 living members at the time.
The card shop in Nashville that is no longer there, and I'm pretty sure the guy even died a few years ago, he had that photo, and it was, like, the nice lithographed copy of it.
Mm-hmm.
Autographed by all 11 people.
It was, like, an 18 by 24.
It was also autographed by the artist, and the guy he got this from had all 11 original tickets.
Like, he had just asked for the ticket back at some point.
Oh, wow.
And a- me and my buddy Andrew, one of the guys who got me back into cards, at this point 15, 16 years ago, we had it framed where the tickets, like shadow boxes all around this item, and then that thing was in the middle.
You had this?
Yeah, I had it at my house for And then Andrew had it.
We actually had- No, okay.
I was gonna say, I feel like I saw this picture.
No, yeah.
Okay.
And, and it was, it's just, it's an iconic piece.
It's cool.
And talk about a one of a kind collectible.
It had the actual tickets from the event.
Yeah.
Like, that to me is a whole story.
Yeah.
All these guys were under the same roof.
A- and I don't, I'm sure we made money or we wouldn't have sold it, but that's one where I said, "Hey, take the money out of this, you idiot."
Now, like, 'cause I can go and buy it tomorrow, the painting.
It doesn't matter.
Sh- Money's no, not, like, I have enough money to buy.
It's not a crazy piece.
Yeah.
But I don't just want the piece.
I want the one we found- Yeah, yeah, yeah with the tickets.
That was awesome.
Something that meant something to you.
Yeah, it would've been really cool.
Yeah.
So I always have cr- regretted that.
So yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I, I honestly don't know have, if I have something that has meant that much to me, and that's why I always- You're heartless.
No, no, no.
I, I do credit you with, like, the being a bigger collector than I am at, at the end of the day because I don't have things where it's like, oh, I had such an emotional tie to begin with.
Sure.
Like, there are times be- where it's like, oh, I Like, I would say one of the, the biggest emotional ties to, that I have to a card at this moment is the, the last day of the National, I was walking through, a- about to exit, and I saw the, this Fred Rogers custom card, and it was signed by Fred Rogers.
Mr. Rogers?
Yeah, Mr. Rogers.
And- Why'd you call him Fred?
'Cause that's his name.
Fred Rogers is his name.
You don't, he, he's Mister to you.
S- Don't be an idiot Mr. Rogers had- Thank you signed s- I guess, like, a similar looking, piece that looked like this card.
Mm-hmm.
And so whoever did the custom, they put it all together, and it looks awesome.
But Sam is a huge Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers fan.
And I got it for her.
And she loves that card- Sold it so much.
Oh.
No, she loves it.
She flipped it.
She's, she's so exci- I She, she has never been excited about- Yeah, fantastic any card stuff.
And so to me, it's like I am emotionally tied to that because she is so emotionally tied to that.
I love it.
And so yeah, that's- And you will get there, but, like, you've been doing this a few years, it's different.
That's why- Yeah it's so, like, with me and you.
Yeah, 35 years ago, I remember setting up a card sh- s- card sh- card show- Yeah on my grandparents' fricking porch.
And then the wind blew, and all my cards got knocked over, and nobody came anyways 'cause it was a kid with cards on the railing of his porch.
But yeah, it's just different.
Like, there's stories- Well- around that stuff I guess if I had to think back, I, I, I didn't sell anything, it was those, my Jordans back in third grade.
I don't wanna hear about it.
But that's the problem.
I've offered to make the situation right- I, I talked- and you won't give me the kid's name I talked to him, and he d- he, he got rid of all his cards a long time ago.
He didn't- Mm-hmm wanna talk on the air, and it stinks.
Oh, of course he didn't wanna talk on air.
He r- He's in, he was a kid too he screwed you.
He was in third grade.
I'm not gonna- Yeah, but he sold those, like, two years ago.
I guarantee it.
He's had them the whole time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Uh- You got any more good ones or not?
Yeah, l- I'm trying to think of ones that y- it's like more like, "Hey, who would you buy ahead of the MLB playoffs?"
I mean, I- Yeah, we're g- we're more- Yeah, I know sentimental folks.
I know.
yeah, have you got another one?
Oh, you know what?
Actually, Evan Ha- Hasty says, "Finally glad to see Shaq getting some love.
If I remember correctly, about two months ago, Mike told me he wouldn't get the love because of the amount of cards produced."
I, I mean, I've always said that.
I've also However, I guarantee whenever I said that, I also said big men tr- historically have never gotten the love they deserve.
Yeah.
And by the way, Shaq is having a moment.
Shaq is still criminally undervalued compared to 99.9 That's another one, though.
That shows you that on-court dominance- Mm-hmm and cultural relevance even do not affect the card hobby as much as other things.
But- Like, dude, Shaq is one of the most known basketball players for not playing basketball.
Yeah.
Everybody knows Shaq, and he was great.
But he's seeing, like, a, a rise as of late- Yeah according to, to this post.
He has.
It- Duncan has too a little bit.
Sure, you have more guys.
Spilt.
We saw this in the COV- Guts.
I was gonna say.
Well, no, I was gonna say the exact same thing.
Like, we saw some similarities during COVID in what we- Spillover I think the reason we saw a lot of that was because, one, we saw a lot of new people coming in, and they wanted some of those cards.
And the quantities at that point no longer seemed in excess.
They seemed almost limited because there are so many people wanting that guy because they knew who that guy was.
I think we're seeing something very similar to now, mildly hope.
Well, hang on.
The other factor, though, real quick.
The other factor to that was I can't afford Kobe and MJ anymore- Well- or LeBron.
Let me So back then- Yes it was let me get- They've been priced out of the other guys now.
Right, so Hakeem- Right.
Yeah though was an all-time great.
David Robinson was an all-time great.
Steve Na- All these second-level guys who were great on the court but have never had their hobby moment.
Shaq, by the way.
Yeah.
Again, as dominant a player as I've ever seen.
Yes.
Couldn't shoot free throws, by the way.
But he was a, he- Dominant, and, and, and dominant off the court.
Like, he has unbelievable portfolio, super recogni- Shazam.
The, was it the genie one?
He was a genie.
Yep, mm-hmm.
Yeah, I'd like to see the size of that frame model, please.
What a sham that was.
So, but the Ah, I forgot what I w- I was gonna end that with.
Oh, no.
But e- e- either way, I do think that we are- They're having a moment Oh, so, what I was gonna end with was I just- I just hope we don't end up back at 2023 in '27 or '28.
You know, in the next couple years- The rise and the crash I don't Yeah, I just don't want it And it, it was a correction.
I w- I wouldn't say it was a crash, 'cause the prices we ended up at at '23 were still higher than what we were in 2019 and early 2020.
Sure.
So it's like, okay, it was, it was a big correction.
And I just I really hope, like, if there's gonna be a correction, we don't have to experience, like, a lot of people leaving because it is nice to know, like, oh, well, there are enough cards to go around at this point where the We were printing.
We thought it was in excess.
But now with this many people, it doesn't feel like that anymore.
That's fair.
Last one I got.
This one's kinda cool.
Mark Wraps, "With some of the GOAT's markets dipping a little post-national," we talked about this the other day.
Mm-hmm.
It Things have slowed down the, the tiniest bit.
Yeah.
It is not But he's right, dipping a little bit.
"What do you think of downsizing on the typical base rookies, i.e.
Tom Brady Bowman Chrome, and moving into lower pop SSPs or early Kabooms?"
I would just say this, when it- I'm strong that, by the way.
I am totally against that with certain players, like Tom Brady.
Oh.
And, and, and f- I say that because in general, Brady is a crazy heavily collected player.
Okay, fair.
Like, like And you know what I've never had the urge to own?
A Brady Downtown or a Brady Kaboom.
I want his rookies.
I want his 2020 stuff with the Bucs 'cause it was his first year there.
I've never been like, "Let me get those."
So with- But he's got higher end stuff though too.
Well, he's talking- That's what he was saying Bowman Chrome's a $30,000 PSA 10, yeah.
But, okay.
I wouldn't trade that for- Okay, that's a different- Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I wouldn't trade that and a couple thousand bucks to go and get a PSA 10 first Kaboom, 'cause I'm sure those are doing tens of thousands of dollars.
Long term, no.
Yeah.
I think those things are having their moment now, and they'll I'm not saying those will ever go to zero.
But I think 20 years from now, the majority of people who are like, "Hey, what's the Brady card you own or want to own?"
Mm-hmm.
His rookie.
So the What I was making the point of is a little different than what your point was because I'm thinking more in the last 10 years, those guys who are still playing in some cases, where it's like, "Hey, I can I've got a higher end card.
It's five figures, but I've got some of the base.
Maybe it's graded, maybe it's raw."
Teddy's here.
It's like less than 1,000.
It's like, yeah, we can go ahead and move tho- those smaller pieces.
That's fine.
Teddy.
Theo.
Ted, come here.
Hannah's here too.
Come here.
Can you come around?
Don't- You can walk that way, bud don't knock over those cameras.
Hi.
He just wanted to talk to the little world real quick.
We're gonna wrap our show up pretty much.
Come here, bud.
Come here.
You can come right over here.
Yeah, come on up here, buddy.
By the way, real quick while the kid's here, we'll go to our sponsors 'cause you're paying for this kid to go to school.
Can you walk this way?
Why you wearing shoes?
What you doing?
What are you doing?
Come here.
You're gonna like shoes.
Does he have a black eye?
He does.
He whacked his face going up a slide the other day.
He got his first shiner.
I like you.
Aw.
Hey, come over here.
You can get on the desk.
You wanna come on the camera?
You have to walk into here.
Theo, come up here.
He doesn't listen real well.
Oh, he's jumping on the chairs.
That's okay.
He's having a good time.
You know, if I had my kid here, she would sit if I said sit, so.
Papa G. Papa Gio.
Where's Papa Gio?
Papa G- where do you think he is?
That's so cute.
He upstairs.
No, he's at the movies.
He's upstairs.
He upstairs.
He's not upstairs.
I'm sorry, buddy.
As always, do quick to our quick sponsor before we wrap up the show.
Yes.
Haystack, that's still our listing tool.
It takes awesome pictures with the Haystack, the photo box, and you can get all your listings done super easy.
It does the titling, all that for you.
They're starting to tie it in with other services as well, like pricing tools and things like that.
Oh, yeah, we talked about that one.
So I think it's a thing- You can get some comps for your stuff.
Yeah, it's one of those where- Yeah it's like, oh, you get all the benefits that it has right now, but what I really like is the future benefits that I think we're gonna be seeing, very shortly.
There you go.
And we still work with The Arena Club, by the way.
If you're into repacks, digital repacks, you can rip them right online.
Do it from anywhere in the world.
They will make an instant buyback offer.
You can use that.
90%.
90%.
The other thing, by the way, I'm still waiting to hear back from them.
I dropped a couple hints.
The watch thing.
Oh, yeah.
They have the watch boxes anywhere from, like, 250 to 5,000.
Yeah.
I'm in.
I'm all about that.
Get this man a watch.
And by the way, and by the way, th- talk about collectible.
Like, oh, you're grifting 'cause you're into watches.
No, I do.
I love watches.
I've been only buying watches with significant years.
Like, significant years to you?
Like birth year.
Okay.
Anniversary year.
Like difference I, I'm all about it, so.
What about, like, the, your social security number?
What number?
What, like what years- 52609- would those be?
7214.
I don't think that's right.
I think that, I think you lied.
529790214.
3-2-4.
It's always three numbers, two numbers, four numbers.
Did you just give out your social?
You didn't just give out your Okay.
You like a child?
I was like, well, you said it so confidently.
Again, I was like- If you lie confidently, you can say whatever.
That's true.
However, back to the point though, Arena Club does the watches now.
I'm in, so.
Uh- You guys wanna send me a code, I'll be happy to promote a little bit more- 'cause I am in on those watches, so.
Uh- If you like You're, you're expecting, like, a free $5,000 I didn't say it's free.
I mean, if you wanna do free, I'll take a free if you want to Oh, Theo's got the flashlight.
If somebody wants to give one.
You can't see this.
Theo has the flashlight now.
Papa Gio gave him that, so.
Aw.
There you go.
All right.
Lots of big stuff coming up, I think.
Some, some cool stuff in the works.
Yeah, absolutely.
Some good v- Yeah.
Thanks.
Jesse's here too.
Some cool video adjustments possibly going forward.
Talked to a kid yesterday in Florida.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jake.
Maybe, maybe put a little pizzazz on our stuff.
I'm coming.
You're coming?
Theo's coming down, guys.
All right, that's it.
I think we're done for today.
We're back We'll be back at least once next week.
That's safe to say.
We'll be back.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
