She Pivots Host and Giants Co-Owner Emily Tisch Sussman opens up about the reality of severe career burnout, the struggle to balance motherhood with a demanding political career during the pandemic, and how walking away from her former identity allowed her to build a new empire.
Emily Tish Sussman built the kind of career ambitious people are taught to want attorney, political strategist, media personality. Then she had 3 children in 3.5 years and walked away from the career she had spent more than a decade building. What initially felt like losing part of her identity became the foundation for She Pivots, a platform dedicated to the moments that forced successful women.To redefine what success looks like today, Emily's career spans media, Broadway, advocacy, ownership in the New York Giants, and Gotham FC. So today we're talking about ambition, motherhood, reinvention, and having the courage to change direction when the life you built no longer fits. I'm Ian Schwartzman, and this is Built Different.Emily, thank you so much for being here. It means a lot that you are joining me on Built Different. You have a cool story your whole life is a cool story. What makes it interesting is that you're not sitting back being passive. There's something to be said about the lifestyle that was you were born into.And a path that you chose that you didn't have to take political advocacy, building a multimedia network, having involvement in professional sports leagues for women and the Giants and just seeing the list of amazing accomplishments, businesses you've built campaigns you've been a part of, I was like you're different.
Well, I really appreciate that. I, I think that, you know, it took me a long time to get here, like to get my head around it. I think that growing up around access to everything that is the best, the most important, the most powerful, you know, you meet like the best of this, the best of that, it puts a lot of pressure on a kid. Like what if I'm just regular?Like what if I'm just average and that. It was, but growing up and going through school, it, it felt like if I can't do something the best, then I'm not living up to my family. I'm not living up to my family's legacy. And that was really hard for me. Yeah, I felt that for many years. That was really hard. Up until really when I established myself working in federal policy, because then I was doing something that I was totally.Doing it on my own and I had large accomplishments from the, pretty early on. And it was because I worked the hardest. Like I just worked the hardest in my office. I was the first in, the last out. I took every assignment and I ended up leapfrogging the people who had been there longer than me because I just took every assignment that was there because I felt so, even if people didn't know anything about my family, it was always lingering in the back of my mind. They're gonna find out, they're gonna find out.And I didn't want them to. I just wanted them to know me as a hard worker.
Two questions. Did you feel like you always had to work harder than everyone else because everyone was judging you? 1. And then 2, how do you define success now? Like, how do you even look at it and go, Oh, this is success, not like maybe it's not monetarily. What do you categorize?
Oneof my favorite questions. Um, yes, I did feel like I, I assumed that people were talking about me and in fact, now I know they were, and I just have to live with that.I actually think that applies to everyone in so many contexts. The thing you are worried people are saying about you, somebody is. They are. Somebody is saying it. Like spend no more time worrying about it. Let it go.
Whenyou let go of caring about other people's opinions on you, did you become more successful?
100%.I spend no more brain space, bandwidth, time worrying about if somebody else is seeing something that I am insecure about. 100%. That's freedom. It, it is actual freedom and I honestly think that is my success now. So,
OK.You grow up in 1991 family buys 50% share in the New York Giants. This becomes a weekly tradition. This becomes part of your life. Did you understand the concept of my family.Are owners of a, a, a sports franchise? Did, did it make sense at 9 or not really? What, what clicked that you're like, my life isdifferent?
No, it was really about the family time that we spent together. Like that was what, what was important to me. Yeah, that Sundays were our family day.With our grandparents always. We did not miss it. And so that what was really important and I do think that's given me sort of a grounding, I don't know if metaphor is the right word, but as we look at what is fandom, why are people fans? How do they feel connected?Like, yes, it's unusual that it's because my grandfather was the owner, but it's actually not an unusual story. It's
everybody's story.
It's everybody's story. That's why everybody is a fan of any sport. It's their traditions.
OK, I run a pretty big company with a lot of people outside of this and.I develop emotional bonds with them.And sometimes these people that are part of the company no longer have a purpose or don't fit a certain need or there's a reason that they no longer are or should be a part of the business. I, I wanna know if you've ever been so emotionally tied to the players that are a part of the Giants over the years or your family members.You don't have sit down dinners at the end of the week like damn we have to let go of so and so we're talking about huge contracts, big deals, life changing scenarios. How does ownership handle big decisions that affect the entire organization moving these.Well,
I think that my family's never been on the football side. There's the business side and there's the football side. So there's like an actual running of a business. And my family's always been on that side versus the football side. So it really never, it never got to us at that level. What I will say is that we've had relationships with players for the last 30 years. People are people.And there are many players that and their families that we've connected with on so many levels, and those relationships don't die. Even
if a, if a contract is over,
everybody knows that this is business. They know it's business, we know it's business. The agent knows that it's business, and so there's really not hard feelings around it in that sense.It may be them going for a better deal. And we can be like a little hurt about it, but we can't be like, you know what I mean? Like, like it is still what's best for them, what's best for the team, what's best for the new coach coming in, right? Like there were players on this last roster that we had relationships with that are great but didn't fit into the new coach's model. Like you have to empower the people that are with you.And, and you know, we own the Gotham FC, the women's soccer team here in New York, and with those players I spend even more time with those players. I think I also individually bring more value to a league that is building and probably a league with female athletes than, I mean, the Giants is at this point like an $11 billion company. Like it's a massive organization. Is that what it's at
right now, $11 billion?
Therewas something around there. There was valuation last year. It's something around there. I mean, it's a massive organization.Whereas if you're talking about a league that is building, a team that is building, so I do spend a lot of time both bringing culture to Gotham and Gotham to culture. The Gotham game should feel as buzzy as Knicks courtside playoffs. There's no reason it shouldn't. We're gonna
compare it to the WNBA. I, I, I look at the WNBA and its expansion, it's cultural gravitas. They
sell out like the Liberties sell out. I don't think the Nets sell.Out in their same stadium and the Liberty have done a really good job with their brand. They've leaned into being New York. Like they've really leaned into their local market and it's done incredibly well for them, and I, I respect them. I give them all the kudos. I, I hope to one day be at their level.
What, what I would find interesting is you've had so many like political advocacy ties. You, you spent 15 years in politics. How can you use some of your knowledge and experience in politics?To bring changes that will be beneficial to these leagues that are not the iconic New York Giants, New York Jets. How do you make your spot here in NewYork?
Well, I can't even begin to tell you that I would have any advice for the Jets. That may be,
don't do that to me. I bit my nails off my whole life with my father going to the Jets games, and I have
passed federal legislation that is too high a hill for me to climb.
Wow.Jets are too high. Federal legislation not.
OK, fair enough. Look, I think there's actually so many commonalities, things that I wouldn't have expected, but ultimately what I did when I worked in federal policy is that I looked for white space and I figured out how to create things that weren't there. What is white space? So at the time, it was figuring out we want to pass a law, we want to change a policy, we want to elect a person, we want to create something.That isn't there. So I would work with policy experts to create that strategy and then often stay on to execute it. Got it. So I don't work in federal policy anymore. But now I think about this entrance both into media and now also into sports as culture change. We're creating things in white space. There's actually a ton of commonality. Definitely. So, you know, we start, I started, entered this space with soccer with my sister who runs our sports VC fund, led us into this investment.I've now expanded it into sponsoring the only black female NASCAR driver in history. Moving on to her name? Destiny
Spurlock. Destiny Spurlock, congratulations.
Look her up. She is the next victim.
When did you do that?You sponsored her over the summer. Congratulations, and that's a bigstep.
It was, it was great, and it really opened up my eyes to women who are in male fields because up to this point I've.just been with women in fully female
sports or spaces or
spaces, but the idea of what doesn't exist and how can I take the different access points that I have, whether it's politics, sports, media, culture, and how can I help them expand. I can take that in so many spaces.
What did the National Women's Soccer League.Doing business last year, what do you hope it does moving forward financially? Do you have a sense ofthat?
I think that the Women's World Cup this summer is going to have a big boost for it. I, so one of the great things about the Women's World Cup, it's gonna be on the same timeline, end of June to end of July. It's the same time zone as the US this year. That's great. Like the women have been dominant for a long time in soccer, where in the US women, whereas the men, US men have not, and I think we've all known that, but nobody could watch.
That's right. How could you see it? How could yousee it?
The Last Women's World Cup was in Australia. You're not getting the casual fan when the games are on at like 4
in the morning I was gonna flip flop 12 hours at least, right?
Yeah, like you're not getting the casual fan there. So I do think there's a ton of things that the casual fan can do right now to build the sport and to just to build it generally, like things like.You know, if you see someone wearing, I, I'd like to say Gotham merchandise, but like really any of the women's sports, like call it out. Like it made someone feel great about the fact that they're wearing it. You're like, yeah, that's all like the Gotham, that's awesome. Right?
It's like a symbol to connect people. It
is a way to connect people. Like I'm saying, so Gotham, we've announced that we're moving to a Queens Stadium in 2028. So we'll be moving very soon. We began
construction on
it's, it's the Etihad Park Stadium at NYCFC, but like the Knicks.Being in the playoffs and going to the championship the year became culture in New York. Like you could, you could walk anywhere in New York and be like Knicks in 5, right? So I think we should start walking around and be, anytime you see someone with Gotham or even Liberty because a lot of the same fans, be like, you know what? Gotham in Queens.
Well, I have a question for you. I'm, I'm, how can people that believe in the NWSL get involved beyond just supporting and buying tickets? What if there's people interested like, you know what, I see.The market opportunity for this league to grow. I want to invest. I want to participate. I want to open a franchise. I want to open a team.What if they're celebrities, professional athletes now that are interested in getting involved, what would they do? Like if they're watching and they're like, I have no idea how to even get my foot in the door, but I could add value strategically, financially, uh, positionally and regionally.I want to get involved. What would be,
well, those profiles of people sound great. So if they want to call me. They can call you, they can call you. Call me. Um, the great news for us as a league and the league in general is the valuations are skyrocketing. So we do have teams coming online. Like there are new expansion teams coming online. There were two new this past year, the Denver Summit and Boston Legacy.There's two coming on in the next 2 years, Atlanta and Columbus. So those franchises have been issued, been sold by the league, by the NWSL that controls them at skyrocketing valuations. I mean, each of them were like over $200 million. Each team, each team for the franchise fee.
Just the franchise fee. Just
theability to open a team is going now for like $200 million.
So wait,OK.Do you have, like, not do you have to, but what drives you knowing, OK, look, I wanna do important things. I wanna help people. I wanna be an impactful person in society.You could do all those things and not be as hardworking as you are.
Well, I give my mom a lot of credit, and I, and you know, part of the reason that my family's name is very visible in a lot of places is because starting with my grandparents who were the wealth creators, they were very philanthropic. Like it is really not lip service. It is very deep in my family's core to say, you know, too much who had been given like much as expected.They were very clear that we support the city, like we support New York, we support the people here. My grandmother was a massive advocate for, she was one of the very early activists in the AIDS crisis when nobody would touch it. She was really a, a stylish society lady. Women didn't work at that point.
Was she a socialite.a socialite.
She was, and it was really, and people were worried that if you weren't in the same room, if you touched someone, you know, it was when Reagan was like raging against and she started as a volunteer. She went in, if you can believe this, she went into what is now the gay men's Health Crisis, GMHC.Um, and she would, she would be the operator. Like she would go andconnect
the calls.
Shevolunteered her time, she didn't tell anyone who she was. She would have her driver drop her off blocks away so that nobody knew who she was going in because she said, I'm, I'm Joan and I'm here to help and I just want to help. So I think starting with that, like that's a very important family story for us and.Really grounds us very much and so when I was in law school, I went to law school just down the street from here. I volunteered at the gay men's health crisis. I went back to the place that my grandmother had been and I did the same thing. I walked in anonymously and I said, I'm a law student at Cardozo and I just want to volunteer and I'd like to do my clinic here. And so I ended up working in the immigration clinic, the housing clinic, um, and eventually they did figure out who I was, but I would never have a sense of self.If I didn't do hard things,
why are you working so hard if you could shut it off tomorrow and be like, I wanna just go sit somewhere, enjoy my life, my kids.
Um, I think it's, I think it's just how I'm wired, to be honest with you. But I also think it's the understanding that I wouldn't have real satisfaction in the work if I didn't really work hard for it. OK, so
hold on. So you, you talk about your kids being the death to your career.So they're, they're really not the death to your career. And if they are, wait, how, tell me how they're the death of your career. So
it was the career that I did have. Yes, my political career, I was in a very fast-paced job that I, I ran a rapid response war room of information that was putting out talking points and strategy against the first Trump administration. So stuff was coming out of that administration so fast, like.Faster than we could respond to. It was hard when I had 0 kids. It was impossible when I had 2 kids under 18 months. Like my brain was fried.
Did you, wasit, were you torn between being a mother and like holding up this, oh my God, I work for a, a presidential campaign?
Well, I actually think this is an incredibly important point to talk about, and I'm really glad that I'm your first.goes on to talk about this. I did not feel drawn to be a mom. I did not. You were
a mom, you didn't even want to be a mom. No,
I did not feel connected to my kids. I was very resentful when I was pregnant. I was sick as hell. I was so mad that it was taking me out of my work. And then after they were born, I felt like I thought that something was supposed to kick in and I was supposed to be like, oh, this is so great, this feels so worth it. It did not. It did not feel worth it.
Did you dumpyour kids on your husband?
No.
Where did the kids go while you were a workaholic?
So when the 2nd 1 was born, I, I really couldn't go back to my job because I was so fried and exhausted. Like at the end of my maternity leave, I said, no, I'm not gonna go back.
Um, and so I started consulting. I physically
and mentally could not do it. Like I was exhausted.I, I was in one of those jobs that had to move a lot of information at the same time and I had to be up on what was current information at all times and I didn't have that kind of brainspace.
Do you have moments where like you go, you go into like your house and this amazing persona, this whole getup goes away and you're like I can't stand any of this shit anymore.
No, I do think that I have been very intentional to keep a North Star of what makes me feel grounded and what makes me feel like me.Those moments did exist for me during COVID, and that is what killed, so I had a 3rd kid in the course of 3 years, then we went into lockdown 3 weeks later, and so I, that's when I saw the death of my career. Like my entire political career essentially vanished because I had no childcare. I had, I was locked in with my kids. I did not feel connected to them. Why didn't
you have childcare? Because I'm actually going through something now.Uh, with my relationship, I want to know.What it is that keeps you together when you have all that chaos going on. 3 kids, a crazy job in politics, now you're like, alright, it's the death of my career.
OK, well, I don't have good news for you. Nothing kept me together. Like I've lost my career.
How didn't you lose your husband?
I think if we had not been locked in, we might have during COVID. It was brutal. It was, and he thought, I also thought, and he thought I would click faster and be like, oh, this baby, I feel like I know what to do with it. I, at no point did I ever feel like I knew what to do with the baby.
Was itworkaholic kicking in or?Is it just like, I don't want to change my life. I can't do this. It's
all of the above. Like I think that both things are true. I think I'm very good at work. I think it makes me feel grounded. It makes me feel like me, and I know that I'm objectively good at it. And, but I don't think it was like that's why I wasn't good with babies. I never was interested in them. People would be like, oh, do you want to hold the baby? And I was like, no, I shouldn't. Like I had no interest.So I was never into them and I thought that something would have clicked for me and it never did.
So what was the inspiration to reinventing yourself? Like what does it even
cause? I literally needed somebody to tell me that I was gonna be OK because everything in the cultural conversation was either about choosing work life, which implies that you are choosing some kind ofChild connection, wanting to be home and that I really resented that. I didn't choose it. I wanted to be working and I didn't feel connected to my kids. And then everything about resilience, which I felt like was the other part of it, I also really resented because that implied, like resilience to me implied going back to something. And I was like I'm so fundamentally changed.By this experience, I need to know like I'm a different person. I can't goback.
I'm not going back to anything. This is my next chapter and it's all forward
and hopefully it's something that can work, that can build upon what I've gone through. Otherwise, why did I go through all of this? Like it was for nothing. I'm hoping my next chapter can build upon it.And so I really wasn't interested in any of the like mommy blog, mommy conversation. I wanted to hear from high-powered women and some medium-powered women. And I wanted to hear how they had gone through something personal to then build upon it to a great professionalcareer.
Did you feel like the guests you started having on She Pivots were people that you admired because they were able to continue forging forward in the face of adversity?And you, you looked at it like you were talking to yourself almost like you needed that pep talk every time.
Yeah, I needed the pep talk every time. But so in the first season, the only way I was able to get them to tell their stories the way that I needed that advice was because I knew them personally and because I knew.That the public version of their story of like, then I built this, then I built this, then I built that. Like that wasn't the real story.
That'swhy I wanted to talk to you this way because I watch all your interviews and I'm like, I'm not talking. I can't talk to her like this. She's too real. She's too authentic. You're constantly doing and I appreciate, I, I, I can appreciate that because I can't stand people who talk and don't do anything.There's too many people talking, too many opinions, and very few people who actually do anything. And
all you have to do is take the first step.
That's it.
I, I, I actually think one of my advantages, whether it's in business or, you know, anything else, is that I am a first mover.
Love that. Me too. As we're flying the plane, fix the wing.
That's part of the design. Like it's not, it's not a problem. It's part of the design. But like I put.Out into the world what I think is the right thing and then what a lot of people need someone else to go first. I love that you're saying this. And so once it's out into the world, I hope to provide that example, but I also know my limitations. Like I'm also not the person who then runs something corporate or like takes it to scale. Like that's not me.I'm the person who moves into the market quickly and can make adjustments as we go.
I love it, so you're nimble. Listen, I have had the most incredible time talking to you. I wanna know if there's anything that we haven't touched on that you feel like is important that you're working on that we could talk about, shed light on. I, I would like to end it on a, on a high note because I, I honestly wasn't expecting this and I had a great conversation. Oh,
Idid too. I really appreciate it.Um, I'd say that I'm thinking now about where do we go? Where do we grow and where do we go? So She Pivots has started as an audio first company, so it's a podcast, video content, live events. Where do we push the limits? You know, now we're sponsoring a NASCAR driver. I, on my own, have also been co-producing Broadway shows, so investing in Broadway shows. I love Broadway. I'm a real theater nerd.Funny, I didn't, I didn't grow
up doing Broadway shows, even if they're independent, I
want to know. Oh, amazing. So there's two coming out this fall. One is Galileo and one is Wanted. Wanted is actually quite, it feels like an extension of the work that I've always been doing of telling women's stories. It's these, it's a true story of these two sisters in post-Reconstruction America and it's, they turn into bank robbers.
I love that.
It's so cool.
Bonnie and Clyde, but Bonnie and Bonnie, but Bonnie
and Bonnie.And the book writer is their real-life descendant, and I have a co-producing partner on it who is a former female college athlete who came into my life through the Giants. Um, her name is Brionne Winston. She's actually married to Jameis Winston, which is how I met her. Everything I do, I care about moving women forward, moving women towards money, access, power, storytelling, and bringing my girls with me.So this is just feels like the next phase of extension for me that I'm really excited about.
I love it.
I'm I'm actuallywearing all female brands that I've invested in.
You own these clothing brands?
No, no, I've invested in some of them.
Man. What are you wearing that
you're investing in? I'm wearing an Argent suit that I'm an investor in. Argent suit. Argent,
Argent
Argent, Moolah sneakers.
Mu.sneakers, those
are beautiful sneakers. I'm actually wearing two different ones by accident, I noticed today.
Can we get some flair from you? I mean, you're inthere.
I have, yeah, yeah, well, this is actually the giant Super Bowl necklace. So this one I didn't make myself, but
it's ridiculous. Yeah,
just sort of like a little floss.
It's fine. You're flossing, you're doing a little braggadocious moment. Emily Tish.Sussman, thank you for joining us. I appreciate your time, your candor, but before I let each of my guests go, I have a, a card company called Center Cut Cards where I make, uh, custom one of two cards, one that you get to hold on to that's representative of your career and all the impact you've had around the world.And I made one for you. You have
Wait, this is so
cool. Look at the back. Oh my God,
I, I'm rarely speechless.
Well, here we go.
Oh my God. This is incredible. You even have a giant coffee cup on there, which is my real secret.
There's a couple of things we had. Listen, center cut car, they make each of these collectible pieces so that it's really for you, not.Just a card anyone wants to collect. It's something special. I want you to keep it
somewhere is so special. This is incredible. I, I'm flabbergasted by this. Well, and it's also now my first card. It
is. And now for my card, it's your first collectible?
It's my first collectible.
Love that.
So thank you. That's
pathetic that the Giants didn't give you a card. However, as I end the show.So I'm gonna have Emily sign my card so I'm the only one with Emily Tish Schussman's signature for everyone that was whispering in high school. I got to sit with her. I got to talk with her. She's incredible and, uh, I was very excited to have you on my show,
I so appreciate your show and your questions. Thank you so much.
Appreciate it, Emily. Talk soon.
