JPMorgan's Dimon Sees Benefits From AI, Warns of Risks

Which which end of the spectrum are you on? Because there there there there there are people who do and do absolutely believe that. We are we are hearing that. Then there's the other side that says we can harness it for for good. It can be controlled. It can be harnessed for good. Where where are you on that on that spectrum?

So, first, the this is instructive of our bureaucracy, how it grows over time, stupid things. That risk section was supposed to be a summary of a prospectus. And now it's they're 80 pages on their own. I mean and this happens all the time with stuff. They just they just grow over time.

I'm in both. So big big context, AI is real. We've been doing it since 2012, not all of a sudden. Uh, we use it, there are thousand risk cases that we use it for. We have thousands of people doing it. use it for risk, fraud, marketing, underwriting, design, customer service, you know, cutting extra error rates. And it's you're going to see more and more in a good way.

It's going to uh save a lot of lives. Like you have, you know, this today we have, my view is it probably will literally in the next 10 or 15 years save a lot of diseases, cancers, have new composite materials for your airplanes, your engines. You know, 45,000 people a year killed in the streets and you know, 150,000 crippled. That number could be cut by 80%. So, you know, I I think a generation, you know, 30 years from now they'll probably be working four or three and a half days a week.

They'll have an income of per person of $300,000. It'll be a great life. And I just, that's the good part. And I think there's truth to that. And uh it's also true that there's a bad part. And I'm not going to go through the jobs part unless you want me to, but but the bad part is the the risk that some of these things now pose on creating you all have systems.

Well, you use applications. We use 7,000 applications, a lot of open source code. There are hundreds of thousands of open source code. And these things are so powerful now that you thought you didn't had no vulnerabilities and you run this through your own code and there are hundreds of significant vulnerabilities. And so for a JP Morgan, you know, we're we've spent a lot of money in cyber, we're very well protected. You're probably up there with the best in the world.

Uh and a lot of the banks are, but there are industries completely unprotected. You know, you guys are probably pretty well protected, but then you have vendors who aren't. And there are industries that like water, zero. Certain government institutions, zero. Certain hospitals, zero. So they are hugely vulnerable now to state actors, terrorists, uh criminals, or just people who hate you.

You know, who don't like the company, they don't like the industry, they don't like the party, they don't like the uh and we have to get our hands in that. and where that risk is and how bad it is from, I don't think it's existential threat, but uh you you're going to see problems too.

Let's roll up our sleeves, which we're doing. We have a lot of people doing it now to fix the problems so that we actually are on top of what those risks they create, so we get the good and not the bad. But it it is critical. And the government has geared up for this, you know, we Jay Clayton, who I some of you probably know, was just announced the uh Tsar for the government, which he's the National Director of Intelligence. We've been in contact with him. You know, they all know the risk.

They the government is organized around it. They don't know how to do it either, by the way. So it isn't like they're sitting there saying, we're on top of this. They're saying, we need help and the help is us. They can't protect all these industries, the industries have to do it. And Scott is on this thing with me called the Alliance for critical infrastructure, the CEO of uh United, uh, which is trying to do it by industry. so that every industry should have its own protect yourselves, clean up your own codes, clean up your vendors codes, help the smaller companies in your industry, like we have, you know, a thousand of banks that we bank who are quite concerned about them and I am too.

You know, and uh, and then you have different vendors and, you know, they're the way we look, there's 20 industries, you know, we started with six, we're going to go to the other 14, and all these companies are putting real muscle into it at this point. And the government's going to organize around it, uh, but we have to do it in due haste. And this one we have a common interest with China because I think China realized, this isn't about us versus China. In the, in China, they also have to worry about people who like the government, terrorists,

state actors don't like China. Uh because this could be used against anybody. It can be u- and and then it's made worse by the way by these agents. I don't know have you been reading about the agents? Muse and Instinct and all that. So now the this AI creates, you know, little, we call them persistent agents, that they're always looking to attack you. And 24/7. And this agent talks to that agent and that agent talks to that agent and and uh and if you allow them in your bank, and there's a big issue for banks, you know, if the muse is trying to get, they can make payments for you.

That means you have to give them your bank code. That means they are in your bank. And you're assuming they're going to act properly on your behalf and they may not. And of course they may do things inside a bank which is treacherous for the bank too. So these are big deals and I don't know how we can deal with them all other than roll our sleeves and get to work. The government will obviously play a role. You know, there's a big debate about, you know, should it be like the FDA, a government regulated thing or like a FINRA, which is the securities self-regulated thing or just industry getting and getting at it.

And I don't really care. My view is get at it, we'll worry about the legality of it later.